The ones we shouldn't persist with

[Rosco]

I didn't realise Joe Allen was only 25, it feels like he's been around for ever.

I think he's proof that buying young players because they have resale value is a strategy that has flaws. It's not a good sign that he's so frequently unavailable during the prime of his career.

Him and Lallana would be the first two out the door, Lallana is similar in some respects to Allen. Unable to stay fit, and unable to regularly impose himself on Premiership opposition.

Lucas falls into the category too. Is the fella that stabbed Monica Seles out of prison and looking for work?
That's where I am with Lucas. It's like we need to save LFC managers from him.

After that, Skrtel and Mignolet can move on whenever it suits.

 

[Best Believe It]

I actually think had Joe Allen been fully fit and in the team yesterday we'd have done better - our passing especially in central midfield was poor, and he tends to be one of the better passers in our squad.

I'd be happy for Ming, Lovren, Skrtel, Lucas to leave, with the proviso we bring in better players. Which is always a problem.

 

[keniget]

This may be a little away from the point of the thread but the first thing that came to my mind was "Henderson and Milner as captains and backbone of our team".

I like both players but I had my concerns in the summer, which I voiced when I could be bothered and I've been going on about the midfield generally speaking for much longer now.

They're both good players and on their day, they can be excellent, but they're not quite good enough to represent us in their current capacity if we're intending to be competing at the top again. They are supplementary players. The Fernandinho to Yaya Toure. The Rakitic to Iniesta. There is no shame in that as both players I've picked out are excellent in their own right but we have to be clear about this. We need a top class midfielder or two to come in and set us straight.

 

[refugee]

I don't think there is anyone that is really bad. I'd get rid of Lovren in a heartbeat, but even he would probably be ok with a couple of world class players around him.

Add a Gerrard, Suarez, Torres, Hyypia, Masher to this team and the other players would look a hell of a lot better. But sadly we are spending enough money to buy world class players, but ending up with Lallanas.

 

[Robonoodle]

Clyne
Coutinho
Henderson
Sturridge
Are the ONLY four I would be that bothered about not leaving.
No one else has shown enough to be unsaleable

I'd add Gomez to your list. He's going to be boss.

 

[mark1975]

This may be a little away from the point of the thread but the first thing that came to my mind was "Henderson and Milner as captains and backbone of our team".

I like both players but I had my concerns in the summer, which I voiced when I could be bothered and I've been going on about the midfield generally speaking for much longer now.

They're both good players and on their day, they can be excellent, but they're not quite good enough to represent us in their current capacity if we're intending to be competing at the top again. They are supplementary players. The Fernandinho to Yaya Toure. The Rakitic to Iniesta. There is no shame in that as both players I've picked out are excellent in their own right but we have to be clear about this. We need a top class midfielder or two to come in and set us straight.

They're definitely too samey samey, we need someone who will take authority in midfield in a different way, someone capable of putting a stamp on the game and getting control of things. We've got a really weak backbone but we do have good players around that. Sort out our spine through the middle and we'll be on the right track.

 

[Woland]

That Firmino looks shit

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Lovren
Lallana (I think he's ok, but way prefer coutinho and am hoping for firminho to be great)
Ming
Origi (maybe another loan but he looks poor and is definitely behind studge, benteke and ings)

I wouldn't be too upset if we lost Allen either.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Told you that Origi was fucking muck.

But he only scored two less than Martial last season, and three less than him this season.

Or something...

 

[mark1975]

He cost a fraction of what Martial did and he's played one game.

I don't know what to make of Origi (because he's only played one game!) but we didn't make a final decision on Ibe (for example) after one match. Ibe's played alot of football for us and people are happy to see him progress. Origi's played one game and lame comparisons have started and people have already decided he's not good enough.

 

[6TimesaRed]

We loaned out Markovic which we Paid 20 million for, and replaced him with Firmino who cost 28 million.. No improvement and 48 million spent..

 

[jexykrodic]

He cost a fraction of what Martial did and he's played one game.

I don't know what to make of Origi (because he's only played one game!) but we didn't make a final decision on Ibe (for example) after one match. Ibe's played alot of football for us and people are happy to see him progress. Origi's played one game and lame comparisons have started and people have already decided he's not good enough.

You're not helping with this rational approach.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

He cost a fraction of what Martial did and he's played one game.

I don't know what to make of Origi (because he's only played one game!) but we didn't make a final decision on Ibe (for example) after one match. Ibe's played alot of football for us and people are happy to see him progress. Origi's played one game and lame comparisons have started and people have already decided he's not good enough.

Actually, that comparison was made when United overpaid for Martial by people trying to big up Origi. So before either had played any games.

Obviously it's early days for both, but that comparison looks to be back firing a bit.

 

[mark1975]

We loaned out Markovic which we Paid 20 million for, and replaced him with Firmino who cost 28 million.. No improvement and 48 million spent..

How do you know there's no improvement? I'm loathed to justify us loaning out a player we've just paid £20m for, but like with Origi, how can you make a definitive decision at this stage? As per you're making a decision about a player after a handful of appearances. Firmino to me looks to have alot more natural ability and control than Markovic ever did. He needs to get used to the league and apply himself, but it's a lame comparison. Markovic didn't adapt after a year yet you're saying a player who's been here 5 minutes isn't an upgrade.

 

[mark1975]

Actually, that comparison was made when United overpaid for Martial by people trying to big up Origi. So before either had played any games.

Obviously it's early days for both, but that comparison looks to be back firing a bit.

I just reread the Martial thread. Mors mentioned it and My Blood Bleeds Red made a joke about it at the end of the thread, that's it really.

 

[6TimesaRed]

How do you know there's no improvement? I'm loathed to justify us loaning out a player we've just paid £20m for, but like with Origi, how can you make a definitive decision at this stage? As per you're making a decision about a player after a handful of appearances. Firmino to me looks to have alot more natural ability and control than Markovic ever did. He needs to get used to the league and apply himself, but it's a lame comparison. Markovic didn't adapt after a year yet you're saying a player who's been here 5 minutes isn't an upgrade.

He does seem to have something about him I agree.. But I have seen nothing yet that convinces me otherwise...

We have seemed to have bought a player for a role we have covered already..

Lack of foresight from the manager on how to play him? ..

I dunno.. I just find it bizarre we buy all these players under Rodgers that have oodles of potential and they turn out to be not so great.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I just reread the Martial thread. Mors mentioned it and My Blood Bleeds Red made a joke about it at the end of the thread, that's it really.

So you agree, it was a stupid comparison to make? Cool.

 

[mark1975]

So you agree, it was a stupid comparison to make? Cool.

Yeah, but it was hardly the more widespread response I was expecting. Like I said, and like you said, it's early days.

 

[Squiggles]

How do you know there's no improvement? I'm loathed to justify us loaning out a player we've just paid £20m for, but like with Origi, how can you make a definitive decision at this stage? As per you're making a decision about a player after a handful of appearances. Firmino to me looks to have alot more natural ability and control than Markovic ever did. He needs to get used to the league and apply himself, but it's a lame comparison. Markovic didn't adapt after a year yet you're saying a player who's been here 5 minutes isn't an upgrade.

Whether it's an upgrade or not is beside the point. The players are signed with no set system in place and therefore we have gross misallocation of resources throughout the squad. Firmino signed at high expense reduced to the bench yesterday as soon as we moved to two strikers. 20M Markovic out on loan having failed to be given a position all last year, £24M Lallana wanting to play in the same space as Coutinho, etc, It's just poor planning throughout.

 

[Hansern]

Firmino looked good yesterday. Should have been subbed on for Studge instead of Lallana.
He'll be boss if used properly. Quelle surprise he looked much better when played centrally and not out on the wing.

You have to laugh at people making their minds up about a 20 year old kid who has played 90 mins of football for us or something.
You'd think some just love that our signings dont work out.

Lovren has been a complete mess, Lallana has been nowhere near value for money, same with Allen.
Markovic is a strange one seeing as we bought him and Lallana when we clearly didnt need both, and now we've sent him out on loan after not giving him a proper chance in his natural position. The worst thing is he looked quite good as a wing back.
He played a good game for Fenerbache yesterday and had an assist. I wouldnt be surprised if he was played in his natural position.......'

I'd sell Enrique, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Balotelli, Mignolet and Lovren aswell. I wanted to see if Lovren could redeem himself after last season but the way he lost it at West Ham is just unacceptable. I dont see how he can get his career back on track. Sakho was very good yesterday and should start. We wont get even half what we paid but I'd sell him after this season.

We missed a trick by not signing a midfielder this summer. Kondogbia or Cabaye would have improved us massively.

 

[mark1975]

Whether it's an upgrade or not is beside the point. The players are signed with no set system in place and therefore we have gross misallocation of resources throughout the squad. Firmino signed at high expense reduced to the bench yesterday as soon as we moved to two strikers. 20M Markovic out on loan having failed to be given a position all last year, £24M Lallana wanting to play in the same space as Coutinho, etc, It's just poor planning throughout.

I don't disagree with that, but that wasn't his point. If there's no clear plan, then you can't really point to Firmino and say he's a Markovic replacement and then make a decision on whether that's a success or not after a few games. If his point was about poor planning then he should have made that point, instead of hammering home a premature judgement.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I don't disagree with that, but that wasn't his point. If there's no clear plan, then you can't really point to Firmino and say he's a Markovic replacement and then make a decision on whether that's a success or not after a few games. If his point was about poor planning then he should have made that point, instead of hammering home a premature judgement.

My point is about having no clear plan on how to play him... Read my previous post..


We bought a player to pay in a system that Rodgers had no clear idea how to play...

And replace him with another in Firmino that Rodgers has no clear idea how to play, and the position he excels in, is covered anyway...

 

[Silver Sean]

I'd keep whoever the new manager rates.

 

[beejay]

There's plenty I'm not keen on and some I can't stand but if we bring in a new manager sooner rather than later He'll have a chance to assess them. Me not liking a player means fuck all compared to whoever the next manager is.

Having said that I'm not keen on

Lallana - too weak and needs too many touches

Origi - might be early days but I haven't seen him do anything for us ,Lille or Belgium that impressed me.

Can - Needs to improve with almost every aspect of his game as at the moment he excels at nothing.

Mignolet - Even in his best form he wouldn't get near any of our competitors teams.

Allen - as weak as Lallana but without the skill

Milner - Looked decent when surrounded by good players. Now he isn't and he looks average again.



The ones i can't stand

Lovren - so many reasons but mostly because he shit

Enrique - the unflushable Turd

Moreno - Can't tackle,mark,pass,shoot or cross (though he was probably one of our best players today)

Toure - the decision to give him another contract was crazy

Rodgers - The longer he stays the harder it'll be for the next manager to correct.

I agree with all of this, with the proviso that I'm certain a better manager could produce a strong team with the nucleus of players we have and some of those who are failing at the moment might look a whole lot better.

This squad should be capable of a top 4 finish but if we are to build a title-winning side we should be looking to bring in a new goalkeeper, left back, 2 classy centre midfielders and a pacy, goalscoring winger. That's what we've needed for a couple of years and we have wasted so much money in other areas it's criminal.

 

[neildo]

As most have said its gotta be Lucas. All summer it was obvious we needed to improve there. Lucas on his day is decent, but that's few and far between, everyone in their right mind could tell our back 3 or 4 need protection. Everyone but Brendan that is. Now he seems to have finally worked out we need a DM but we've only got Lucas to play there.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

We're weak pretty much everywhere, as Oncy said there's only a handful that are really safe, and maybe another few youngsters. Most of our squad is replaceable.

 

[davud graham]

I agree with all of this, with the proviso that I'm certain a better manager could produce a strong team with the nucleus of players we have and some of those who are failing at the moment might look a whole lot better.

This squad should be capable of a top 4 finish but if we are to build a title-winning side we should be looking to bring in a new goalkeeper, left back, 2 classy centre midfielders and a pacy, goalscoring winger. That's what we've needed for a couple of years and we have wasted so much money in other areas it's criminal.

New managers can really make a difference with some players and lets hope whoever comes in can turn some of our duds into useful players.
Steve Finnan was crap under Houllier but excellent under Rafa , as one example.
Henderson made more progress under Rodgers than he did with Kenny.
Robbie Keane couldn't produce under Rafa but was good nearly everywhere else.
Jan Molby and Paul Walsh both started slowly under Joe Fagan but were excellent Under Dalglish.
Sometimes it's style of football or what position they are played or even whether they get on with teammates or coaching staff and even a failure to settle in the area.
The downside of this is that some players who are doing okay at the moment might not do so well under a new manager. That's a risk i'm willing to take.

 

[Rosco]

Age is more to do with that than managers

 

[davud graham]

As most have said its gotta be Lucas. All summer it was obvious we needed to improve there. Lucas on his day is decent, but that's few and far between, everyone in their right mind could tell our back 3 or 4 need protection. Everyone but Brendan that is. Now he seems to have finally worked out we need a DM but we've only got Lucas to play there.

I agree that we need to improve on Lucas but I'd like to keep Lucas as a backup and sometimes as an additional defensive midfielder when needed. I like Lucas and think he does a decent job but there are younger and faster players out there who could be a better option.He also might not be prepared to be a bit part player.
It was indeed strange how Rodgers approached the Lucas situation with him seemingly looking to get rid in the last two transfer windows only to change his mind when he realised we had no one else to play there and then spending so much money on Firmino when we already had Coutinho in that position.
You could easily believe he didn't quite know what he was doing.

 

[neildo]

I don't mind keeping him as back up either. However we've effectively got Lucas, Allen and Can who can all be considered back up in that midfield department as of right now. Can obviously has youth on his side, so he deserves some time to show us if he can control a game.

We've also got our 2 captains who are pretty much guaranteed to start. So if we go and sign an improvement on Lucas, for me it's either him or Allen gone. I'd personally prefer it to be Lucas, he's had his shot. He's had some very good games along the way, as well as some awful ones. But he's never been able to do it consistently for more than half a season at most, whether that's down to talent or through his injuries, I don't know. I just know it's time to move on.