The Egyptian King

[StevieM]

Hey look, these other clubs are in the shit because they are overpaying their fading talents. Let's use them as a benchmark!

Hey look - there’s Man City with de Bruyne, Walker, Gundogan, Kovacic, Stones, Ederson & Silva all in their 30’s and they’ll likely win the League and Champions League this season!!!

God forbid you look at the ages of the Real Madrid midfielders that won La Liga and the Champions League last season!!!

The point would be surely - that some players are worth paying highly well into their 40’s because they’re fucking good… while others aren’t.

 

[rubans]

Other older players on big wages smashing it this season, Lewa at Barca, Kane at Bayern and Messi. We can afford Salah on a rolling or a 2yr contract around what he is on now is my feeling as he will always be an exceptional case.

 

[The Nomad]

Over the last 5 years, there have been years when our wage bill has been higher than United, and years when it's been lower, but the average is £338m for us v £331m for them. An average is probably a better guide as both team's numbers will fluctuate based on success. They'll also have made some chunky payments to sacked managers, which we obviously didn't.
Their non-footballing staff numbers were 687 per the last accounts (against our 770), so that would seem to push the staff share of the total payroll number up a little. But all told, it would appear to me that their players payroll is likely to be lower than ours.
When it comes to Chelsea, fuck knows what's going on there.
Just to summarise those average (total payrolls) over 2018-2023:
City £360m
LFC £338m
Utd £331m
Chelsea £304m
Arsenal £226m
Spurs £205m
Leicester £177m
Everton £166m
And yes, that is the top 8, there is no-one between Leicester and Everton.

I am surprised that Arsenal and Spurs are so low. Also Chelsea in 2023 surely had a higher wage bill? Even at that point they had about 70 senior players.

I guess the only true comparison is if those could be split between Basic, Performance Bonus, Other Bonus (Lotalty).

 

[Woland]

The NYSE listing relates to Man United's Class A shares only. When Ineos bought into the club, they purchased 25% of the Class A shares AND 25% of the Class B shares.
The Plc's accounts state that the rights of the shares are identical, except that the B shares get 10 votes to every 1 vote for the A shares. So arguably the B shares would be worth more than the A shares, and the total Ineos stake is worth at least twice the quoted share price (so basically still worth what they paid for them).
EDIT - and they were trading about $16 when Ineos bought in.

I did wonder why he paid so much as I thought they were hovering around 25 when the deal was done. Even so, they're worth significantly less now as even if you averaged out the values of the A & B shares you'd get to over 25, and it's now 17. I think he overpaid because it'll give him the leverage to be able to do a full takeover. Either way I've no idea why he'd want to, I'm glad he's paid over the odds, and I'm even more happy that they're fucking shite.

 

[Beamrider]

I am surprised that Arsenal and Spurs are so low. Also Chelsea in 2023 surely had a higher wage bill? Even at that point they had about 70 senior players.

I guess the only true comparison is if those could be split between Basic, Performance Bonus, Other Bonus (Lotalty).

Those numbers are a five year average. Chelsea's wage bill in 2022-23 was £373m.

 

[Hansern]

In addition to the players that we have moved on. Klopps salary was probably about 18 mill £ a year. Slot wont be making that.

 

[bluebell]

if anyones thinking of buying or selling, don't! Its could be hitting support and go back up or go further down to hit 17.0. At that point if it goes back up, then that's the time to buy

 

[tombrown]

Not a chance that’s true. Staff payroll will be £40-50m tops. The player / manager / coaching wage bill will be at least £300m.
Staff numbers in 2023 (excluding players / coaches) were 770. I’ve excluded the match day stewards etc. which will be around £5-7m - mostly 8-hour shifts on minimum wage.
The numbers from the site above imply an average staff salary, excluding social security etc. of £235m / 1.15 / 770 = £265k. I was quite senior and I was nowhere near that. The senior execs were not getting anywhere near the pay needed to drag the average up.
My £50m number would imply a typical salary of about £56k, which still looks high as an average, when you consider a lot of those staff will be clerical, catering, retail etc.
You could probably do a better estimate extrapolating the gender pay gap data but it’s probably beyond my basic maths capabilities.
EDIT
Looking again at that capology site, I think their estimate is probably only for our first choice eleven. They probably haven’t considered bonuses, or subs / squad players. That’s why their midfield number is lower than defence when we had more midfielders in the squad who were probably paid more on average than the defence. Their number is lower because we played 4-3-3, so they’re counting 3 midfielders v 4 defenders. It’s bullshit.

Hang on - our players on tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds per week are also claiming social security? Do they get housing benefit?

 

[Farkmaster]

Hey look - there’s Man City with de Bruyne, Walker, Gundogan, Kovacic, Stones, Ederson & Silva all in their 30’s and they’ll likely win the League and Champions League this season!!!

God forbid you look at the ages of the Real Madrid midfielders that won La Liga and the Champions League last season!!!

The point would be surely - that some players are worth paying highly well into their 40’s because they’re fucking good… while others aren’t.

City's aging squad is their main problem, and they don't have many.

Real Madrid sold Casemiro with perfect timing, and let Benzema go on a free, even though he was very productive. In exchange they bought a couple of really young midfield talents. Those were the players with huge wages. They got goals from somewhere else entirely.

Yes, clubs with a lot of money can hang on to stars, give them one year contracts, partially because there's nowhere better to go. We aren't that in world football. I'm not saying you can never keep a 30 year old. I'm not talking even about what we should do ideally, I'm talking about what we should do given how this club is run, and to think realistically about all the choices involved. If we tie up VVD Trent and Salah then don't be shocked if we do nothing in the transfer market for a while; it's exactly what we did when we had to improve the contracts of our big stars under Klopp. There is a huge risk involved, and the decision can't be taken in isolation of the other decisions we have to make.

 

[Beamrider]

Hang on - our players on tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds per week are also claiming social security? Do they get housing benefit?

Can't believe you read that far in @tombrown I'm genuinely impressed.

 

[tombrown]

Can't believe you read that far in @tombrown I'm genuinely impressed.

TBF the words just jumped out at me, very little reading was involved

 

[rurikbird]

View: https://x.com/AnfieldEdition/status/1831314897931583631

 

[Frogfish]

View: https://x.com/AnfieldEdition/status/1831314897931583631

Diaz new contract in the works it seems.

 

[MomoWASright]

Diaz new contract in the works it seems.

This place would go into meltdown if his was announced ahead of the other three.

 

[Hansern]

The ECHO has spoken to numerous sources and it is understood Salah is desperate to extend his stay at Liverpool beyond this summer.
@ptgorst

 

[tombrown]

I have been taking a lot of taxis this week.
@ptgorst

 

[Fabio]

I am surprised that Arsenal and Spurs are so low. Also Chelsea in 2023 surely had a higher wage bill? Even at that point they had about 70 senior players.

I guess the only true comparison is if those could be split between Basic, Performance Bonus, Other Bonus (Lotalty).

Arsenal's will skyrocket now all their young heroes are getting renewals.

 

[Hansern]

Arsenal are already paying Jesus 265k, Havertz 280k and Partey 200k. Their young players will want to get paid or move on I reckon.

 

[SummerOnions]

Arsenal are already paying Jesus 265k, Havertz 280k and Partey 200k. Their young players will want to get paid or move on I reckon.

Jesus that's a lot

 

[Fabio]

Saka, Saliba, martinelli and odegaard renewals will fuck them up a bit or they'll wave bye bye

 

[StevieM]

City's aging squad is their main problem, and they don't have many.

Real Madrid sold Casemiro with perfect timing, and let Benzema go on a free, even though he was very productive. In exchange they bought a couple of really young midfield talents. Those were the players with huge wages. They got goals from somewhere else entirely.

Yes, clubs with a lot of money can hang on to stars, give them one year contracts, partially because there's nowhere better to go. We aren't that in world football. I'm not saying you can never keep a 30 year old. I'm not talking even about what we should do ideally, I'm talking about what we should do given how this club is run, and to think realistically about all the choices involved. If we tie up VVD Trent and Salah then don't be shocked if we do nothing in the transfer market for a while; it's exactly what we did when we had to improve the contracts of our big stars under Klopp. There is a huge risk involved, and the decision can't be taken in isolation of the other decisions we have to make.

Il neither be shocked or cared we don’t buy anyone after tying up VVD, Trent & Mo - because if we’re hanging on to them it’s because they’re delivering and if they’re not then then they’ll likely get the Fabinho/Hendo treatment.

Mo looks good this season - but, yep, let’s see how he goes in that post Christmas fasting period, because he tends to, understandably, drop off… and let’s see what his intentions are for international football because there’s no AFCON this season, but next season’s dates are fucking terrible and he’ll miss way more important games than a Jan window. (Its runs Dec 21st - Jan 18th).

VVD will still be one of the best defenders in the world for years.

Trent’s prime time.

 

[StevieM]

Saka, Saliba, martinelli and odegaard renewals will fuck them up a bit or they'll wave bye bye

If FFP has any teeth.. otherwise Arsenal will just do as they please.

 

[YNWA]

Saka, Saliba, martinelli and odegaard renewals will fuck them up a bit or they'll wave bye bye

All 4 of them signed new deals in the summer of 2023 with expiry dates either being 2027 or 2028.

The immediate impact on their payroll should be from signing of Rice & Harvetz who presumably could be earning between 250-300 pw each.

 

[Fabio]

All 4 of them signed new deals in the summer of 2023 with expiry dates either being 2027 or 2028.

The immediate impact on their payroll should be from signing of Rice & Harvetz who presumably could be earning between 250-300 pw each.

True but that was still early days so probably lower wages. Next contract they'll want a fucking payday. Ballon dor nominations? Money money money

 

[Modo]

Does anyone think that the AFCON next season is one of the reasons we haven't offered him a new contract?

 

[Fabio]

Does anyone think that the AFCON next season is one of the reasons we haven't offered him a new contract?

Id like to think no, as that's a shite reason.

 

[Modo]

Id like to think no, as that's a shite reason.

I wouldn't call it a shite reason, because last season we lost him for about 3 months thanks to the AFCON.
It definitely hurt our season too, because he wasn't really the same when he came back.

 

[Beamrider]

If FFP has any teeth.. otherwise Arsenal will just do as they please.

I reckon Arsenal are close to the edge on the old-style PSR, but fine on the new UEFA measure, for now. When the target percentage drops to 70% they will have some work to do, so both measures could constrain them.
We're fine on either measure, including, probably, the final 70% UEFA target.
That said, it's hard to accurately estimate all this stuff from public information and even then you can only do it for financial years, but the UEFA test is for a calendar year.
I believe Swiss Ramble has blogged on this but it's paywalled.

 

[MomoWASright]

I reckon Arsenal are close to the edge on the old-style PSR, but fine on the new UEFA measure, for now. When the target percentage drops to 70% they will have some work to do, so both measures could constrain them.
We're fine on either measure, including, probably, the final 70% UEFA target.
That said, it's hard to accurately estimate all this stuff from public information and even then you can only do it for financial years, but the UEFA test is for a calendar year.
I believe Swiss Ramble has blogged on this but it's paywalled.

Do you have a link?

 

[Beamrider]

Do you have a link?

Will English Clubs Comply With UEFA's Financial Rules?

Another Brick In The Wall

swissramble.substack.com