Forget everything else, Joe Allen cost us the win, that was his/our moment and he blew it when it was harder to miss, Howard even dived out of the way for him for fuck sake.
The Derby.. Post Match
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He swapped sides at half time to get away from Agger? Yet during those two chances in the second half, he clearly exploits the left of our centre back pairing.
Like I said, why does every post match thread become about Agger? You've made him a main talking point by exaggerating his contribution, again. If that's "bossing" a player, I'd hate to witness how pooorly he'd have to perform for you to admit irrefutably that he had a poor game.
And just a pointer, positioning IS a fundamental part of defending, you criticise Skrtel for it enough, so why it doesn't count in this instance is symptomatic of your lack of reasoning and perspective on Agger.
Like I said, he wasn't that crucial a talking point but if you want to highlight it, at least take it on the chin when the evidence is crystal clear.
No way would that stop it
R
RedZeppelin III
Guest
i'm interested to see how rodgers handles all these centre backs as the season goes on. Competition is obviously healthy (skrtel's improved form the perfect example) but if he starts dropping them for the odd mistake well not only will we suffer from the chopping and changing but it could unsettle them knowing any mistake and they're out of the team .
I was thinking this yesterday, it would become very reminiscent of Evans' time in charge, none of the centre backs really proving consistent enough and getting dropped for a mistake, only for the cycle to go on and on and on. I personally don't think Skrtel and Agger is dominant enough a pairing, while Sakho might be rash, he's good in the air.
I agree with KHL over Skrtel. Was coming here to say the same thing. He was at fault for the first goal and completely ducked a shot that could have gone in bottom corner if it weren't for a great save from Mignolet.
Draw was a fair result, maybe. They were the better team, but we should have put the game to bed (Joe Allen!!!!) and Mirallas should have been sent off about 4 times. Cunt.
Draw was a fair result, maybe. They were the better team, but we should have put the game to bed (Joe Allen!!!!) and Mirallas should have been sent off about 4 times. Cunt.
T
the_khl
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Mark thinks it's the player that is marking Lukaku that is partly to blame for their first goal. By the looks of it a lot of posters on here agree with him.
That's what we are up against mate. They just don't buy reason if it doesn't fit their agenda.
That's what we are up against mate. They just don't buy reason if it doesn't fit their agenda.
Mark thinks it's the player that is marking Lukaku that is partly to blame for their first goal. By the looks of it a lot of posters on here agree with him.
That's what we are up against mate. They just don't buy reason if it doesn't fit their agenda.
I didn't say he was the main culprit, but he was guilty of ball watching alot. Like I said, you haven't challenged the other gifs of the one on ones where he's clearly left for dead, because, you know, he won every dual with Lukaku.
Apart from the ones where he failed to get anywhere near him.
Like I said, they were all poor defensively, but according to you Agger was close to being one of our top three players. Which would be true, if we all ignored his colossal moments of dire positioning.
T
the_khl
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It makes sense to me why we never agree on Agger now as I can't fathom what you are going on about here. We must watch the game differently. There are about 5 red shirts between the ball and Agger, who's marking Lukaku, and yet he should've gone for the ball? It is unbelievable reasoning, for me at least.
And I have twice made my comments on the others gifs? I have even stated that he may have been positioned wrong in the second instance, at least initially, and he may have gone forward to soon on the first - though I don't really think so. See my earlier posts if you care for an explanation, not going to write it again.
The way you're going on about it, youd' think Daniel Agger was the messiah! He isn't, he just eats kosher bacon every day.
T
the_khl
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I am not sure I'd drop Skrtel myself for the next game.
I think he has been very good mostly this Season and should get some leeway imo.
Not sure about Agger (or Sakho) on the right side of the defense either.
So you're still only saying "maybe" he was at fault in those two instances. They weren't half chances Kris, they cut us open and left him for dead, it's only thanks to Mignolet and indecision from their two players that we got away with it.
You seem to think I'm saying Agger is the main culprit, they're all as bad as eachother and the only reasoning in reality for you giving Agger a reprieve, is because of who he is. If it had been Skrtel left like that then you'd fucking crucify him, it certainly wouldn't be none of this "maybe he moved forward too early" bollocks. But we know that already, it's pointless trying to reason with you, he's not consistent enough, like Skrtel & Johnson. There's a reason our defense has gone to shit in recent years, it's because none of them our quite good enough.
T
the_khl
Guest
Mark, he got caught out of position in the first instance as we lost the ball in a dangerous area in midfield whilst passing it around sideways. See the play again.
The second one, he's got an eye on Skrtel and knows he'll follow him, he needs to look at the player carrying the ball. They are both imo left completely isolated however, and that is a very tough situation to defend for any defender in the world.
And I haven't been crucifying Skrtel either.
Goodnight.
It was a weird move to drop Sakho anyway, who was getting better and better. He should have played, and he should come back into the team next game. For who, I don't particularly care as long as he's in the starting line up.
That was as big a failure as Allen's miss, possibly more so because Coutinho had a lifetime (in footballing terms) to get goal-side of the most dangerous player in Everton's team as he stood entirely alone on the edge of the box. Inexcusable stuff.
R
RedZeppelin III
Guest
we've kept 1 clean sheet in the last 9 games and conceded 13 in that period after a great start of 3 clean sheets in a row . Is this down to the defence chopping and changing , individuals or the team as a whole being poor defensively ? Probably a bit of everything . Anyway fuck excuses , we've so many options in centre back (one being a 17m buy) so we should do better .
We have two left footed CBs and two right footed CBs .. there's a reason Agger and Sakho have not been paired to date !
Ditto. He could and should have started after a superb performance for France.
Had we had Sakho up against Lukaku at set pieces I doubt he would have celebrated two goals.
Footy365's write up:
[article]* And breathe. We were expecting a tense and tactical Merseyside derby between two teams who have generally been impressive at containing opponents this season, but that prediction disintegrated with two goals inside the first eight minutes as anarchy ruled at Goodison. "It is going to be a fiercely competitive game," said Brendan Rodgers before kick-off, and the momentum swung back and forth at a frantic pace, leaving us feeling rather dizzy after Liverpool twice threw away the lead, conceded what looked like an 82nd-minute winner for Everton and then grabbed a late equaliser through Daniel Sturridge. It's difficult to grasp who will be happiest after such an open game - not Joe Allen, that's for sure.
* What a horrendous miss from the Liverpool midfielder that would have given the Reds an insurmountable 3-1 lead on the hour mark. With Everton gradually taking control of the match at the start of the second half, a break-away goal for Liverpool would surely have knocked the stuffing out of the hosts and allowed Rodgers to re-jig his team to kill the remaining half-hour. But despite Luis Suarez creating a gilt-edged chance for his teammate with a mazy dribble through the Everton defence, Allen somehow side-footed wide under absolutely no pressure. It wasn't the brightest thing to do on his first Premier League start of the season and we expect he'll suffer a few sleepless nights after being hauled off by Rodgers just ten minutes later. It really is difficult not to think that Allen is £15million poorly spent after the first 15 months of his Liverpool career.
* Was Rodgers' decision to replace Allen motivated by his frustration at that miss or is that maybe a little disrespectful towards the manager's ability to retain composure on such a fraught occasion? Whatever the reason, Allen's substitution for Victor Moses only served to make Liverpool even more vulnerable to Everton's counter-attacks after Gerard Deulofeu had already missed a brilliant chance when he was put clear at the start of the half. Rodgers beamed with satisfaction in his post-match interview, emphasising his team's "resilience and mentality to fight back", but had he been a little more cautious in his changes Liverpool may have gained more than a single point.
* "We went through a spell where we couldn't keep the ball, we were too loose in possession," said Rodgers. "It's very important you don't lose if you can't win." It was a sensible reflection from the manager but entirely inconsistent with his approach as he sent on Daniel Sturridge for Lucas at 2-2. It was a decision that saw a fortunate Rodgers get out of jail in the dying stages, but he put his bird in the hand at peril by hunting two in the bush. After Liverpool threw away a two-goal lead in the first half of this fixture last year, Rodgers made two half-time substitutions and changed his team's shape to contain Everton after the break, effectively killing the game. On Saturday he decided to be bold - often a commendable trait in a manager - but nearly lost everything before Sturridge popped up with his late header.
* Roberto Martinez was equally risky in his reaction to Leighton Baines' foot injury as Everton trailed 2-1. Instead of making a more conservative change - such as bringing on John Heitinga for Baines and moving Sylvain Distin to left-back - Martinez opted to introduce Deulofeu in a decision he may have immediately regretted as the youngster struggled to adapt to the pace of the game. However, as Deulofeu began to compose himself, Everton began to tick and the 'Barceloanee' managed four shots on target - second only to Romelu Lukaku on the pitch - as he buzzed across the final third. Martinez's adventure was duly repaid by the Spaniard, while his decision to start Ross Barkley ahead of Leon Osman - the only change from the 0-0 draw at Crystal Palace two weeks ago - also aided Everton's play in the final third, if not their resilience in the centre of the pitch.
* A loan spell that started with Lukaku giving Jose Mourinho food for thought has now become a big wedge of humble pie lodged in the Chelsea manager's gullet as the striker continued to embarrass his permanent boss. Although he was a little quiet in the first half, partly due to a lack of quality service, the Belgian grew into the game after the break and was twice thwarted by Simon Mignolet before eventually scoring his two goals. According to Opta, of everyone to have more than ten shots in the Premier League this season, only Mesut Ozil has a better shooting accuracy than Lukaku. He's been a simply outstanding signing so far, as we all knew he would be.
* In fact, Everton were enormously accurate as a team on Saturday, hitting the target with 12 of their 18 attempts and creating much better chances than their rivals only to be denied by the excellent Mignolet on several occasions. There was one moment in the second half when the keeper failed to claim a bouncing ball in the box that Daniel Agger had to hook to safety, but other than that he excelled, demonstrating his alertness as he twice rushed from his line to block Lukaku efforts. As I've previously stated in Winners and Losers, Rodgers will be eager for the keeper to improve his distribution, but he proved his worth with a string of fantastic saves on Saturday.
* A quick word on Kevin Mirallas, who should have been sent off for his appalling challenge on Suarez in the first half, no matter the tenuous justification of schadenfreude that rang across Twitter. It was wild, reckless, dangerous and all those other adjectives we like to use when a player somehow escapes a red card for a shocking tackle. Rodgers had every right to feel aggrieved after the final whistle as he questioned Phil Dowd's decision and, had the referee made the right call, the complexion of the game would have changed entirely.
* Not only did Dowd fail to appreciate the severity of Mirallas' challenge, but he also took a ridiculously long time to produce the yellow card. Perhaps he was waiting for advice from one of his assistants (if so, they weren't much help) or maybe he enjoyed having his new leaner figure in the spotlight for a moment. The reason isn't really important - the delay failed to diffuse an already tense situation and could have led to more problems as temperatures rose.
* With five of the six goals coming directly from set-pieces - and the sixth resulting indirectly from Lukaku's direct free-kick, if that isn't too much of a tongue-twister - both managers will be disappointed with their team's defending. More on that in a moment, though, as before the criticism, praise is due for the composure Everton showed to create Lukaku's first after his initial free-kick was saved by Mignolet. The keeper should possibly have reacted quicker to his parry, but Mirallas was sharp to seize on the rebound and both he and Gareth Barry remained calm to eventually pick out Lukaku via a deflection from James McCarthy. It was an excellent team goal that demonstrated brilliant understanding.
* And now for a dose of blame. While Philippe Coutinho was rather clever with his darting run to shed his unenviable tag of being the player to have the most shots without scoring in the Premier League this season, Lukaku should have been more aware of his opponent as he left the Brazilian unmarked in the box. After five-and-a-half hours without conceding, it was a frustrating way for Everton to go behind, while the Toffees' defence should also have got closer to Sturridge when he flicked in his late equaliser.
* Martinez will be disappointed with his team's resolve at set-pieces on Saturday - especially Steven Pienaar's role as Suarez's strike squeezed through the Everton wall - but that issue is a bigger burden to his counterpart as Rodgers again watched Liverpool concede two goals from dead ball situations. "We've got to be stronger than that defensively," said Rodgers in his post-match interview, but he should be worried that his warnings have not been heeded.
"It's something that we need to address, for sure. We have to be more aggressive and more switched on. It's concentration," said the manager after the 2-2 draw against Newcastle in October, in which Paul Dummett gave the Magpies the lead by heading in a free-kick. "The goal at home to Crystal Palace (in the previous fixture) was disappointing. That was a poor goal to give away, but thankfully it never cost us."
On Saturday, however, the perceived lack of concentration - particularly relevant when Steven Gerrard lost Mirallas for Everton's first equaliser - did cost Liverpool, and six of the 13 goals they have shipped in the top flight this season have come from set-pieces.
* Despite creating three chances for teammates (the most of any Liverpool player), Gerrard was rather subdued, but he wasn't the worst of Liverpool's players as Glen Johnson delivered an awfully sloppy performance. The right-back's error in the first half set Lukaku free down the left before Lucas came across to cover and it was his throw-in that somehow resulted in Mirallas feeding Deulofeu for a brilliant chance at the start of the second half. Not content with those mistakes, Johnson then played a part in both of Lukaku's goals - giving the ball away in a dangerous area that led to the Belgian's free-kick, from which he eventually converted, and then losing the striker in the box not long later. Perhaps Johnson is not quite at full fitness following his stop-start season thus far, but he will need to greatly improve on Saturday's display if Liverpool are to avoid giving away more soft goals.
* Jordan Henderson may give Liverpool 'tactical flexibility', as Martinez claimed on Friday, but he frequently looked like a square peg in a round hole in an attacking position on the right. It's better to have specialists than utility men, but Rodgers' varied use of Henderson could see the midfielder pop up at his second international tournament in a row if he remains a key part of the Reds' success.
* Martinez has often seemed quite the moaner and his attempt to deflect attention from Mirallas' challenge by questioning Gerrard's 'elbow' was rather shameless. "I was a little bit disappointed with Steven Gerrard's elbow on Gareth Barry," said Martinez. "It did not contact his face but it was not a natural position to have an elbow and that could have been a nasty incident."
It was clearly an accident and any suggestion otherwise should be met with the ridicule it deserves.
* It would be impossible to write 16 Conclusions on a Liverpool match without mentioning Suarez and the striker's whipped free-kick put him equal on goals with Spurs in the Premier League (nine) in four fewer matches. It was not all joy for the Uruguayan, though, as he was forced to start the match without his strike partner in crime and his pass accuracy of 69% goes some way to explain several promising Liverpool attacks breaking down in the final third as Everton began to dominate in the second half.[/article]
[article]* And breathe. We were expecting a tense and tactical Merseyside derby between two teams who have generally been impressive at containing opponents this season, but that prediction disintegrated with two goals inside the first eight minutes as anarchy ruled at Goodison. "It is going to be a fiercely competitive game," said Brendan Rodgers before kick-off, and the momentum swung back and forth at a frantic pace, leaving us feeling rather dizzy after Liverpool twice threw away the lead, conceded what looked like an 82nd-minute winner for Everton and then grabbed a late equaliser through Daniel Sturridge. It's difficult to grasp who will be happiest after such an open game - not Joe Allen, that's for sure.
* What a horrendous miss from the Liverpool midfielder that would have given the Reds an insurmountable 3-1 lead on the hour mark. With Everton gradually taking control of the match at the start of the second half, a break-away goal for Liverpool would surely have knocked the stuffing out of the hosts and allowed Rodgers to re-jig his team to kill the remaining half-hour. But despite Luis Suarez creating a gilt-edged chance for his teammate with a mazy dribble through the Everton defence, Allen somehow side-footed wide under absolutely no pressure. It wasn't the brightest thing to do on his first Premier League start of the season and we expect he'll suffer a few sleepless nights after being hauled off by Rodgers just ten minutes later. It really is difficult not to think that Allen is £15million poorly spent after the first 15 months of his Liverpool career.
* Was Rodgers' decision to replace Allen motivated by his frustration at that miss or is that maybe a little disrespectful towards the manager's ability to retain composure on such a fraught occasion? Whatever the reason, Allen's substitution for Victor Moses only served to make Liverpool even more vulnerable to Everton's counter-attacks after Gerard Deulofeu had already missed a brilliant chance when he was put clear at the start of the half. Rodgers beamed with satisfaction in his post-match interview, emphasising his team's "resilience and mentality to fight back", but had he been a little more cautious in his changes Liverpool may have gained more than a single point.
* "We went through a spell where we couldn't keep the ball, we were too loose in possession," said Rodgers. "It's very important you don't lose if you can't win." It was a sensible reflection from the manager but entirely inconsistent with his approach as he sent on Daniel Sturridge for Lucas at 2-2. It was a decision that saw a fortunate Rodgers get out of jail in the dying stages, but he put his bird in the hand at peril by hunting two in the bush. After Liverpool threw away a two-goal lead in the first half of this fixture last year, Rodgers made two half-time substitutions and changed his team's shape to contain Everton after the break, effectively killing the game. On Saturday he decided to be bold - often a commendable trait in a manager - but nearly lost everything before Sturridge popped up with his late header.
* Roberto Martinez was equally risky in his reaction to Leighton Baines' foot injury as Everton trailed 2-1. Instead of making a more conservative change - such as bringing on John Heitinga for Baines and moving Sylvain Distin to left-back - Martinez opted to introduce Deulofeu in a decision he may have immediately regretted as the youngster struggled to adapt to the pace of the game. However, as Deulofeu began to compose himself, Everton began to tick and the 'Barceloanee' managed four shots on target - second only to Romelu Lukaku on the pitch - as he buzzed across the final third. Martinez's adventure was duly repaid by the Spaniard, while his decision to start Ross Barkley ahead of Leon Osman - the only change from the 0-0 draw at Crystal Palace two weeks ago - also aided Everton's play in the final third, if not their resilience in the centre of the pitch.
* A loan spell that started with Lukaku giving Jose Mourinho food for thought has now become a big wedge of humble pie lodged in the Chelsea manager's gullet as the striker continued to embarrass his permanent boss. Although he was a little quiet in the first half, partly due to a lack of quality service, the Belgian grew into the game after the break and was twice thwarted by Simon Mignolet before eventually scoring his two goals. According to Opta, of everyone to have more than ten shots in the Premier League this season, only Mesut Ozil has a better shooting accuracy than Lukaku. He's been a simply outstanding signing so far, as we all knew he would be.
* In fact, Everton were enormously accurate as a team on Saturday, hitting the target with 12 of their 18 attempts and creating much better chances than their rivals only to be denied by the excellent Mignolet on several occasions. There was one moment in the second half when the keeper failed to claim a bouncing ball in the box that Daniel Agger had to hook to safety, but other than that he excelled, demonstrating his alertness as he twice rushed from his line to block Lukaku efforts. As I've previously stated in Winners and Losers, Rodgers will be eager for the keeper to improve his distribution, but he proved his worth with a string of fantastic saves on Saturday.
* A quick word on Kevin Mirallas, who should have been sent off for his appalling challenge on Suarez in the first half, no matter the tenuous justification of schadenfreude that rang across Twitter. It was wild, reckless, dangerous and all those other adjectives we like to use when a player somehow escapes a red card for a shocking tackle. Rodgers had every right to feel aggrieved after the final whistle as he questioned Phil Dowd's decision and, had the referee made the right call, the complexion of the game would have changed entirely.
* Not only did Dowd fail to appreciate the severity of Mirallas' challenge, but he also took a ridiculously long time to produce the yellow card. Perhaps he was waiting for advice from one of his assistants (if so, they weren't much help) or maybe he enjoyed having his new leaner figure in the spotlight for a moment. The reason isn't really important - the delay failed to diffuse an already tense situation and could have led to more problems as temperatures rose.
* With five of the six goals coming directly from set-pieces - and the sixth resulting indirectly from Lukaku's direct free-kick, if that isn't too much of a tongue-twister - both managers will be disappointed with their team's defending. More on that in a moment, though, as before the criticism, praise is due for the composure Everton showed to create Lukaku's first after his initial free-kick was saved by Mignolet. The keeper should possibly have reacted quicker to his parry, but Mirallas was sharp to seize on the rebound and both he and Gareth Barry remained calm to eventually pick out Lukaku via a deflection from James McCarthy. It was an excellent team goal that demonstrated brilliant understanding.
* And now for a dose of blame. While Philippe Coutinho was rather clever with his darting run to shed his unenviable tag of being the player to have the most shots without scoring in the Premier League this season, Lukaku should have been more aware of his opponent as he left the Brazilian unmarked in the box. After five-and-a-half hours without conceding, it was a frustrating way for Everton to go behind, while the Toffees' defence should also have got closer to Sturridge when he flicked in his late equaliser.
* Martinez will be disappointed with his team's resolve at set-pieces on Saturday - especially Steven Pienaar's role as Suarez's strike squeezed through the Everton wall - but that issue is a bigger burden to his counterpart as Rodgers again watched Liverpool concede two goals from dead ball situations. "We've got to be stronger than that defensively," said Rodgers in his post-match interview, but he should be worried that his warnings have not been heeded.
"It's something that we need to address, for sure. We have to be more aggressive and more switched on. It's concentration," said the manager after the 2-2 draw against Newcastle in October, in which Paul Dummett gave the Magpies the lead by heading in a free-kick. "The goal at home to Crystal Palace (in the previous fixture) was disappointing. That was a poor goal to give away, but thankfully it never cost us."
On Saturday, however, the perceived lack of concentration - particularly relevant when Steven Gerrard lost Mirallas for Everton's first equaliser - did cost Liverpool, and six of the 13 goals they have shipped in the top flight this season have come from set-pieces.
* Despite creating three chances for teammates (the most of any Liverpool player), Gerrard was rather subdued, but he wasn't the worst of Liverpool's players as Glen Johnson delivered an awfully sloppy performance. The right-back's error in the first half set Lukaku free down the left before Lucas came across to cover and it was his throw-in that somehow resulted in Mirallas feeding Deulofeu for a brilliant chance at the start of the second half. Not content with those mistakes, Johnson then played a part in both of Lukaku's goals - giving the ball away in a dangerous area that led to the Belgian's free-kick, from which he eventually converted, and then losing the striker in the box not long later. Perhaps Johnson is not quite at full fitness following his stop-start season thus far, but he will need to greatly improve on Saturday's display if Liverpool are to avoid giving away more soft goals.
* Jordan Henderson may give Liverpool 'tactical flexibility', as Martinez claimed on Friday, but he frequently looked like a square peg in a round hole in an attacking position on the right. It's better to have specialists than utility men, but Rodgers' varied use of Henderson could see the midfielder pop up at his second international tournament in a row if he remains a key part of the Reds' success.
* Martinez has often seemed quite the moaner and his attempt to deflect attention from Mirallas' challenge by questioning Gerrard's 'elbow' was rather shameless. "I was a little bit disappointed with Steven Gerrard's elbow on Gareth Barry," said Martinez. "It did not contact his face but it was not a natural position to have an elbow and that could have been a nasty incident."
It was clearly an accident and any suggestion otherwise should be met with the ridicule it deserves.
* It would be impossible to write 16 Conclusions on a Liverpool match without mentioning Suarez and the striker's whipped free-kick put him equal on goals with Spurs in the Premier League (nine) in four fewer matches. It was not all joy for the Uruguayan, though, as he was forced to start the match without his strike partner in crime and his pass accuracy of 69% goes some way to explain several promising Liverpool attacks breaking down in the final third as Everton began to dominate in the second half.[/article]
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