The Core

[Rosco]

During the summer i felt this season was a great opportunity for us to operate with a scaled down squad to identify a core and a bring on some younger talent. We've beem seeing the risk of that approach in the last month.

But if there is a silver lining, it is that the past month might have helped us identify those player we need for the longer term and those we don't.

If you were to identify a core of the squad that must stay to be built around, who is it in for you ?

 

[Holle]

Henderson, Matip, Clyne, Milner, Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho, Mane.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Henderson, Matip, Clyne, Milner, Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho, Mane.

Assuming the u23s aren't looked at as part of the core (TAA, Woodburn etc), the above is basically it ...

 

[Holle]

Assuming the u23s aren't looked at as part of the core (TAA, Woodburn etc), the above is basically it ...

Yes, I didn't regard them as core players. Of course we should keep the better ones.

 

[Mersey86]

I'd add Wijnaldum.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I'd add Wijnaldum.

Only when our team is performing at a decent level.

 

[manwithnoname]

During the summer i felt this season was a great opportunity for us to operate with a scaled down squad to identify a core and a bring on some younger talent. We've beem seeing the risk of that approach in the last month.

But if there is a silver lining, it is that the past month might have helped us identify those player we need for the longer term and those we don't.

If you were to identify a core of the squad that must stay to be built around, who is it in for you ?

I still don't know who is genuinely good enough, if we're talking about a core that has enough quality to challenge for a title.

How could anyone say Gomez, for example, with any confidence? If you're asking me about players who start every week in our best team, then that's a short fucking list.

Not either of the goalkeeping clowns
Defensively Clyne, Milner and possibly Matip, although it's too soon to tell. Alex- Arnold probably. Klavan is shite and Lovren unreliable

In midfield Henderson at his best is worthy of a place, and Lallana maybe, based on the first half of this season. You wouldn't moan too much about Wijnaldum and Can as squad *options* but they're nowhere near guaranteed first team on the evidence so far

Coutinho, yes. Of course

Sturridge looks finished, Origi is obviously mediocre, and Firmino is decent, but not really anything special. Mane is clearly top quality, but we knew that anyway. He's the only attacking player we have that Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, United or City would be interested in.

Of the kids, there's not one who has looked like they could emulate the brilliance of Owen, Gerrard, Fowler, Macca or Carragher.

So there's quite obviously at least 5 top quality signings required.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Matip, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Coutinho, Mane

 

[Modo]

Matip, Clyne, Henderson, Coutinho, Mané.

2ND tier: Lallana, Milner, Firmino

 

[Markeh]

Being harsh here but Matip shouldn't be part of this core if he can't play 90% of the games in a season.

Pining for a talented player that's never available really pisses me off. This is an especially bad thing with center halves when you want to build the defence around them and their calming influence / partnership is key to making things work.

There's no problem if his injuries dry up of course

 

[HC]

mane,Matip,coutinho,Milner

I think klopp would see firmino and Henderson as part of that core group too

 

[The Nomad]

Henderson, Matip, Clyne, Milner, Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho, Mane.

Almost.. I'd have Henderson and Milner in second tier though along with Gini. (Milner purely on age).

Spine should be:
Keeper (Jury out on Karius), Matip, Coutinho and Mane as first names on the team sheet.

 

[Glen C]

Clyne, milner, lallana, coutinho, firmino and mane.

I was going to say matip but he really hasn't played enough games yet. The rest I wouldn't even blink an eyelid if they were gone and no I didn't forget hendo.

 

[Kay Age El]

Tricky.

Part of me would accept;

Milner, Coutinho, Mane and Firmino as the only untouchables.

Matip, Clyne, Hendo, Can, Wini, Origi and Lallana still not convinced me completely.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I think most of the above suggestions are reasonable. Concern I have is how long will it take to build a team around this "core"? Milner and Lallana aren't exactly young - if it will take 3-4 seasons to build a team, they aren't likely to be key contributors to the finished product.

And I like Wijnaldum but he hasn't done nearly enough to be considered part of the core yet. He's got a lot to prove as far as I'm concerned. Same with Can, who is teetering near the top of a potentially slippery slope down - time to make or break.

Sturridge, unfortunately, looks done as a top player. Still potentially useful but not someone to build around or count on.

 

[Red Bird]

Coutinho, Mané, Clyne (touch and go here), Matip (though injuries are a concern), Firmino and Lallana. Second tier would be Milner (only because of age), Can, Henderson, Origi (tricky) and Wijnaldum (tricky, again.). I've not considered the sprogs but already some have caught the eye and deserve chances. We can definitely upgrade on both goalkeepers, centre-halves and left-back and need a [genuine] replacement for Sturridge who is seemingly on his last legs.

The discussion basically reflects, whichever players you include or exclude, that the squad isn't good enough and and explains fearful the drop off in results. Basically, we have spent quite a tidy amount in the last seasons but have not got real value for money. That has to be addressed and quickly, too. .

 

[Brizzle]

Almost.. I'd have Henderson and Milner in second tier though along with Gini. (Milner purely on age).

Spine should be:
Keeper (Jury out on Karius), Matip, Coutinho and Mane as first names on the team sheet.

Your inability to see Hendo's qualities - especially after seeing the team fall apart in his absense - is astonishing.

 

[keniget]

--------------- ?
Clyne --- ? --- ? --- Milner
----- ? --- Hendo --- ?
Mane ------------ Coutinho
-------------- ?

A lot of question marks unfortunately and their placement is inline with what we've seen on the pitch - really weak and lacking in leadership in the middle of the pitch and missing a killer instinct up front.

We do have a lot of good players that can step in such as Firmino and Lallana so it's not all doom and gloom but we need to add three or four players in key positions that can be counted on week in, week out over the course of a season.

 

[The Nomad]

Your inability to see Hendo's qualities - especially after seeing the team fall apart in his absense - is astonishing.

Woah.. Calm down Bristow.

A) I said 2nd tier, I would keep him but I wouldn't build a team around him. Its a personal opinion.

And B) Where was Henderson vs Swansea? Oh yeah. Playing. Captain fantastic that day eh?

 

[Dreambeliever]

Clyne, Matip, Henderson, Mane, Coutinho

 

[RedStar]

Clyne, Mane, Coutinho are really the only ones who look good enough and consistent enough to win a title. Henderson, Lallana, Firmino could be provided they have really good players around them but they are more 'cogs in the machine' then outstanding players you build a team around.

With Matip I'll reserve judgement until he is consistently fit.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

Henderson is very underrated in and around the opposition area.

I'd look for a deep lying playmaker type and get Henderson into a more box to box role instead of Wijnaldum.

 

[Frogfish]

On this season's form :

Matip, Clyne, Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho, Mane.

Squad : Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner (on age),

Then there are the youngsters with potential including AA, Gomez, Origi, Woodburn, Wilson, Ejaria, Grujic etc.

 

[The Nomad]

On this season's form :

Matip, Clyne, Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho, Mane.

Squad : Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner (on age),

Then there are the youngsters with potential including AA, Gomez, Origi, Woodburn, Wilson, Ejaria, Grujic etc.

Dont froggy.. Brizzle will be foaming at the mouth. Ha ha.

 

[Brizzle]

Woah.. Calm down Bristow.

A) I said 2nd tier, I would keep him but I wouldn't build a team around him. Its a personal opinion.

And B) Where was Henderson vs Swansea? Oh yeah. Playing. Captain fantastic that day eh?

It is an opinion - an astonishing one. If you only retort is 'oh what about this game he was shit in' then that says it all.

 

[Rosco]

I still don't know who is genuinely good enough, if we're talking about a core that has enough quality to challenge for a title.

How could anyone say Gomez, for example, with any confidence? If you're asking me about players who start every week in our best team, then that's a short fucking list.

Not either of the goalkeeping clowns
Defensively Clyne, Milner and possibly Matip, although it's too soon to tell. Alex- Arnold probably. Klavan is shite and Lovren unreliable

In midfield Henderson at his best is worthy of a place, and Lallana maybe, based on the first half of this season. You wouldn't moan too much about Wijnaldum and Can as squad *options* but they're nowhere near guaranteed first team on the evidence so far

Coutinho, yes. Of course

Sturridge looks finished, Origi is obviously mediocre, and Firmino is decent, but not really anything special. Mane is clearly top quality, but we knew that anyway. He's the only attacking player we have that Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, United or City would be interested in.

Of the kids, there's not one who has looked like they could emulate the brilliance of Owen, Gerrard, Fowler, Macca or Carragher.

So there's quite obviously at least 5 top quality signings required.

Well on Gomez - i'd wait til next season before making any judgment on him, because those injuries take a long time to get over. He showed he has the makings of a good full back already. Whether he can cut it at centre back remains to be seen.

I'm more or less on the same page as you on the remainder though.

The core going forward, be they starters or not - Matip, Milner, Clyne, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can, Firmino, Coutinho.

Lallana - as an option in the midfield three, but not further forward. His form in the first third of the season was super but I just have this nagging doubt that it was his 'Wonderman' phase. He's a big maybe for me.

 

[Tinto]

Well on Gomez - i'd wait til next season before making any judgment on him, because those injuries take a long time to get over. He showed he has the makings of a good full back already. Whether he can cut it at centre back remains to be seen.

I'm more or less on the same page as you on the remainder though.

The core going forward, be they starters or not - Matip, Milner, Clyne, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can, Firmino, Coutinho.

Lallana - as an option in the midfield three, but not further forward. His form in the first third of the season was super but I just have this nagging doubt that it was his 'Wonderman' phase. He's a big maybe for me.

I'll add Origi to the list though. Not sure if he will be good enough first choice but his goals in December kept us in the hunt for the title. We would be worst of without him this season. Plus he was excellent in the Europe Cup last season.

Matip and Mane are our two most important players right now though. We're simply not as good when they're not available as we don't have any replacements. It's significant that they were Klopp's two big summer signings.

 

[Silver Sean]

Matip, Gini, Lallana, Coutinho, Mane. New keeper, defenders, world class midfielder general required.

 

[The Nomad]

It is an opinion - an astonishing one. If you only retort is 'oh what about this game he was shit in' then that says it all.

Brizzle, you need to re-read your original reply to me. You said in his absense it all went to shit. I pointed out he was playing vs Swansea. No more. No less.

Does he deserve a place in the squad? At the moment and given our lack of alternatives of course he does. Would I build a team around him? No.

Plenty of other posters have said the same thing. 'Astonishing'.

 

[FoxForceFive]

--------------- ?
Clyne --- ? --- ? --- Milner
----- ? --- Hendo --- ?
Mane ------------ Coutinho
-------------- ?

A lot of question marks unfortunately and their placement is inline with what we've seen on the pitch - really weak and lacking in leadership in the middle of the pitch and missing a killer instinct up front.

We do have a lot of good players that can step in such as Firmino and Lallana so it's not all doom and gloom but we need to add three or four players in key positions that can be counted on week in, week out over the course of a season.

This post wins.

Considering Milner's age & how long it would take to build the rest of the side, that means we have four players who are good enough long term. FOUR.

Fuck me.

However, that's opposed by the fact that even most title winning sides will have one or two players in who never stand out much or seem that good, I'm sure that means we could let at least one position skate with a slightly below par player.

Even taking that into account though, we're a long way from serious success.