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Southampton Away - Post Match Discussion

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manwithnoname

manwithnoname

Bravo old man. Bravo.
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An away point to a decent side isn't anything to be crying about, but it's the sort of game that Champions have to win more than anyone else.

Today was that game we all feared: competitive, compacted pitch, and few genuine chances created. And nobody capable of taking those chances. We were a bit heavy-legged and laboured, and sloppy in possession. Chances were snatched at, and overall it was disappointing.

Defensively, there were few complaints. What little there was to do was handled well, and a rare clean sheet is great.

Karius (7) calm, composed, no worries at all.

Clyne (7) defensively sound, and attacked at every opportunity, but was a little wasteful

Matip (9) immaculate

Lovren (8) got stuck in as required, and gave little away. Impressive.

Milner (7) another indefatigable display, churning up and down the left. Hit and miss with delivery, but never shirked and always involved

Can (6) occasionally left floundering by quicker players, but he provided ballast in midfield, and was another who got through a lot of work. Never quite dominated though

Henderson (6) a good example of an OK Henderson display; plenty of energy and effort, but never a hint of inspiration, and too many safe passes

Mane (6) the only player who really scared their defence, he was fast and skilful, but shooting and passing range was off-kilter and he wasted what few good opportunities he had

Wijnaldum (6) was involved and competent, but we needed more than that to win. One or two efforts at goal, but that was about it

Coutinho (6) Looked pedestrian and short of ideas in the first half, but shrugged off his torpor in the second to start dictating play. Never looked like scoring, though

Firmino (5) got through a good amount of work, but was a bit one-paced and ordinary. He wasn't quick enough to get past the brilliant Van Dijk, and made a total mess of an easy opportunity that a better finisher would have taken. Not one of his better games.
 
manwithnoname said:
An away point to a decent side isn't anything to be crying about, but it's the sort of game that Champions have to win more than anyone else.

Today was that game we all feared: competitive, compacted pitch, and few genuine chances created. And nobody capable of taking those chances. We were a bit heavy-legged and laboured, and sloppy in possession. Chances were snatched at, and overall it was disappointing.

Defensively, there were few complaints. What little there was to do was handled well, and a rare clean sheet is great.

Karius (7) calm, composed, no worries at all.

Clyne (7) defensively sound, and attacked at every opportunity, but was a little wasteful

Matip (9) immaculate

Lovren (8) got stuck in as required, and gave little away. Impressive.

Milner (7) another indefatigable display, churning up and down the left. Hit and miss with delivery, but never shirked and always involved

Can (6) occasionally left floundering by quicker players, but he provided ballast in midfield, and was another who got through a lot of work. Never quite dominated though

Henderson (6) a good example of an OK Henderson display; plenty of energy and effort, but never a hint of inspiration, and too many safe passes

Mane (6) the only player who really scared their defence, he was fast and skilful, but shooting and passing range was off-kilter and he wasted what few good opportunities he had

Wijnaldum (6) was involved and competent, but we needed more than that to win. One or two efforts at goal, but that was about it

Coutinho (6) Looked pedestrian and short of ideas in the first half, but shrugged off his torpor in the second to start dictating play. Never looked like scoring, though

Firmino (5) got through a good amount of work, but was a bit one-paced and ordinary. He wasn't quick enough to get past the brilliant Van Dijk, and made a total mess of an easy opportunity that a better finisher would have taken. Not one of his better games.
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Yeah that's more or less spot on.

Matip MOM.
 
Yeah, thats about right. Our defence was excellent. Had more then enough chances to win but sadly couldnt get the winner.
On another day Firmino, Clyne and Coutinho will score. Firmino in particular has to score when clean through. After the final whistle it looked like he knew it aswell.

Ah well, decent point in the end. Sunderland next.
 
Sorry but I really feel like crying. That was so fucking frustrating to watch. Plenty of opportunities wasted. Two dangerous strikers on the bench, chomping at the bit to play, and they're brought on with ten minutes to go? What a load of shite. It's two points dropped no matter how you sugar coat it. I thought we played well overall, but after half an hour it had that sense of inevitability and resignation that we've become all too accustomed to. I love Klopp, I really do. At times I still can't believe he's ours. He has this stubbornness with substitutions though that makes want to drop kick him.
 
I missed the game unfortunately did it feel like a game after a midweek European game?
Our lads must have been knackered. 2 games in a week and travelling all over the world.

We will hopefully be back to our sharpest next week.
 
This result was obvious all week, I said before hand that a draw would be a decent result, and it still is despite the frustrating game. Firmino, Coutinho and Mane looked extremely leggy today, it's a recurring theme after international breaks which is frustrating, but it's just something we have to deal with. I don't think we have to read too much into the result in terms of our title challenge, this is a decent point regardless of where we finish, the important thing is we get back to speed next week, and start ourselves on a winning run over the next month.
 
One more rating: Klopp (6): not his best game management imo. Should/could have brought Sturridge on earlier. And maybe not start Coutinho. All in hindsight mind you.
 
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Bar the Bobby rating (Should be a 6), that's pretty fair).

I thought Clattenburg was horrible - he let so many fouls go (for both sides).
 
Buddha said:
I'm still mystified that Sturridge / Origi didn't get on sooner, especially given we had some obviously tired legs out there.
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Have to agree - all I could hear was missed opportunities, Sturridge/Origi would have been very good for this one as starters I think. It is a shame, it is times like this that the argument made by @manwithnoname regarding specialist striker or false striker come and hit you in the head. Today was a day for a specialist to play the full 90 minutes.
 
moron said:
Have to agree - all I could hear was missed opportunities, Sturridge/Origi would have been very good for this one as starters I think. It is a shame, it is times like this that the argument made by @manwithnoname regarding specialist striker or false striker come and hit you in the head. Today was a day for a specialist to play the full 90 minutes.
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i'm sure brenners will love you agreeing with him moron
 
binomial said:
Why did we wait 78 mins to make a sub?

Firmino is very very wasteful
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Actually not really - I think he is very clinical when he has a clear chance, but I guess it is a off day for him. For the record chaps - just remember that Suarez was very very wasteful when he first joined us. We actually created many chances under Dalglish but bad finishing cost him his job in the end. People I know will state other reasons - but I really liked the way we played under Dalglish - but the front men were letting us down.

Regarding the 78 minutes wait for the first sub - yes very frustrating should have been made between 60-65 as is the norm I think.
 
I thought we started better than I feared. We were strong, pushed them hard and closed down all their opportunities early. They creates nada except one chance over the whole game... We should have scored one of the clear cuts but we might lack 2% sharpness due to international break, and 98% doesnt win at South Coast. Still more happy with us taking the game to them to defend, than us not being able to finish it off. The last part we will figure out.... If it was the first part we would struggle.
 
moron said:
Actually not really - I think he is very clinical when he has a clear chance, but I guess it is a off day for him. For the record chaps - just remember that Suarez was very very wasteful when he first joined us. We actually created many chances under Dalglish but bad finishing cost him his job in the end. People I know will state other reasons - but I really liked the way we played under Dalglish - but the front men were letting us down.

Regarding the 78 minutes wait for the first sub - yes very frustrating should have been made between 60-65 as is the norm I think.
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Firmino had one chance and missed it, Coutinho had one chance and missed it, Mane had two chances and missed them and Clyne one and missed it.

According to Brendan, and some others, we need a specialist striker because he wouldn't have missed given a chance - even though Sturridge hasn't scored in the PL despite numerous chances so far this season (that isn't a slight on Sturridge because I love him - just the ridiculous notion that because he is a specialist striker he would 100% have scored where the above failed).

Personally I think it had a lot more to do with mental fatigue driven by being overplayed (hasn't Coutinho played 3 games in the past 7/8 days ?) and jet lag. In that context Sturridge should have been on much much earlier (at the latest 60 mins) .... not because he is a specialist striker but because he was fresher and most certainly wasn't jet-lagged.
 
Since I don't believe we'll win the league for me this result was kind of what I expected after the first 20 minutes. The game was after an international, our most influential players just flew back from the other side of the world.
Our prior results after internationals have not been good. We were playing a team which is not knownfor parking the bus, park the bus. I guess the reason they did this was due to them also coming back from international week and possibly lacking the fitness to attack.
 
Frogfish said:
Firmino had one chance and missed it, Coutinho had one chance and missed it, Mane had two chances and missed them and Clyne one and missed it.

According to Brendan, and some others, we need a specialist striker because he wouldn't have missed given a chance - even though Sturridge hasn't scored in the PL despite numerous chances so far this season (that isn't a slight on Sturridge because I love him - just the ridiculous notion that because he is a specialist striker he would 100% have scored where the above failed).

Personally I think it had a lot more to do with mental fatigue driven by being overplayed (hasn't Coutinho played 3 games in the past 7/8 days ?) and jet lag. In that context Sturridge should have been on much much earlier (at the latest 60 mins) .... not because he is a specialist striker but because he was fresher and most certainly wasn't jet-lagged.
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And is also the best finisher at the club
 
There is little doubt about who you would want to have upfront when in a one on one situation.
Sturridge looked good yesterday. Hopefully he'll get more playing time in the coming games.
 
Another clean sheet is great though. In the past two or three seasons when our attack had an off day, our defenders and goalie will somehow do something daft and give away a stupidly soft goal.

Yes, Austin had that chance but it never felt like we were under any real threat of conceding.
 
Frogfish said:
Firmino had one chance and missed it, Coutinho had one chance and missed it, Mane had two chances and missed them and Clyne one and missed it.

According to Brendan, and some others, we need a specialist striker because he wouldn't have missed given a chance - even though Sturridge hasn't scored in the PL despite numerous chances so far this season (that isn't a slight on Sturridge because I love him - just the ridiculous notion that because he is a specialist striker he would 100% have scored where the above failed).

Personally I think it had a lot more to do with mental fatigue driven by being overplayed (hasn't Coutinho played 3 games in the past 7/8 days ?) and jet lag. In that context Sturridge should have been on much much earlier (at the latest 60 mins) .... not because he is a specialist striker but because he was fresher and most certainly wasn't jet-lagged.
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The point is mind numbingly obvious, despite the fact Sturridge hasn't scored, and if it's not a slight on him, why bother using it? The fact that he's come back from a lengthy injury and has barely played much in the Premiership this season is a major factor, his goals record speaks for itself. I don't get why you have to exaggerate to labour your point, NO ONE has said he would have 100% scored, he's more "likely" to score in those sort of situations because he's the more specialist striker and his goals record is like 57 goals in 102 appearances for us, so that's a conversion rate of more than one goal every two games, so you have to wager that in a team that creates alot of chances, he would more than likely convert them and would be more likely to, than any of the other players. That's not a "slight" on them, they just aren't as clinical, as their respective records prove. Maybe they're functionally better as a unit, but that's not something we can rely on 100% of the time, despite how prolific we can be.

I'm not quite sure we have to excuse every hiccup and why it's so criminally terrible to point out the obvious. We score alot of goals because we create alot of chances, but in some games, because we don't have an out and out striker, our inconsistency infront of goal will cost us. As it did. As a few of us were chastised for predicting a couple of weeks ago.

Like I said in the other thread, it's not a "good result" when your rival wins and gains two points on you, because you fail to perform, it's a setback. In the grand scheme of things we're playing really well this season, but that shouldn't gloss over everything, if we can see points of contention and areas where we can improve, there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't point that out. Which is what several people have rightly done in pointing out that Klopp can occasionally be too slow with his subs, we needed to be more direct, we were proving to be sloppy infront of goal and we had two strikers sat on the bench (again). It was a naive decision to leave it so late. It's a plan B but it's too reluctantly (begrudgingly?) used.
 
We were creating chances and dominiating the game though, and sometimes the subs can have disruptive effect aswell. It can be argued either way but ideally Studge should have been on a bit sooner.

We drew at home to Utd after the last international break, and its been a problem for us in the last few seasons.
We've only won 3 games out of 12 after international breaks from 2013-2016.
Chelsea won 10 in the same periode. City, Utd and Arsenal have 8 wins.
Its an area we need to improve in obviously.

Yesterdays result isnt the end of the World though. Frustrating yes, but instead of 2 points dropped it could be an important point won. We got 0 there last season.
 
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mark1975 said:
The point is mind numbingly obvious, despite the fact Sturridge hasn't scored, and if it's not a slight on him, why bother using it? The fact that he's come back from a lengthy injury and has barely played much in the Premiership this season is a major factor, his goals record speaks for itself. I don't get why you have to exaggerate to labour your point, NO ONE has said he would have 100% scored, he's more "likely" to score in those sort of situations because he's the more specialist striker and his goals record is like 57 goals in 102 appearances for us, so that's a conversion rate of more than one goal every two games, so you have to wager that in a team that creates alot of chances, he would more than likely convert them and would be more likely to, than any of the other players. That's not a "slight" on them, they just aren't as clinical, as their respective records prove. Maybe they're functionally better as a unit, but that's not something we can rely on 100% of the time, despite how prolific we can be.

I'm not quite sure we have to suck off or excuse every abject display and why it's so criminally terrible to point out the fucking obvious. We score alot of goals because we create alot of chances, but in some games, because we don't have an out and out striker, our inconsistency infront of goals will cost us. As it did. As a few of us were chastised for predicting a couple of weeks ago.

Like I said in the other thread, it's not a "good result" when your rival wins and gains two points on you, because you fail to perform, it's a setback. In the grand scheme of things we're playing really well this season, but that shouldn't gloss over everything, if we can see points of contention and areas where we can improve, there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't point that out. Which is what several people have rightly done in pointing out that Klopp can occasionally be too slow with his subs, we needed to be more direct, we were proving to be sloppy infront of goal and we had two strikers sat on the bench (again). It was a naive decision to leave it so late. It's a plan B but it's too reluctantly (begrudgingly?) used.
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It's a silly argument anyway, cause with Sturridge's lost pace he'd never have had the chance Mane had, nor would he have made the exact same run and interchange as Firmino, and certainly not in the same position as Can and Clyne.
I wanted him on earlier but inderstood Klopp's stance, considering we were creating chances due to how the individuals on the pitch were playing .
 
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You could see it was one of those days after the first quarter of the game-- post-international lethargy and lack of sharpness was all in evidence. I just think Klopp missed a trick yesterday by not having Sturridge on much earlier if only for the simple reason that he and Origi were the freshest among the attackers.
 
juniormember said:
It's a silly argument anyway, cause with Sturridge's lost pace he'd never have had the chance Mane had, nor would he have made the exact same run and interchange as Firmino, and certainly not in the same position as Can and Clyne.
I wanted him on earlier but inderstood Klopp's stance, considering we were creating chances due to how the individuals on the pitch were playing .
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He's no slower than Firmino is so I don't think he can be labelled slow, especially when coming off the bench against tired legs, that sort of chance wasn't because of pace, it was a great through ball that caught Firmino's stride perfectly and he took a good first touch but then the shot went wide, it's exactly the sort of chance Sturridge would have got to in the same position, but we can't predict that that's how it would have panned out. What we can say though is that if you had Firmino or Sturridge in that position, most people would back Sturridge ahead of Firmino to hit the back of the net, simply because he's a proven better finisher. The whole "he's lost his pace" thing is overplayed, he's lost some pace, he's not slow. His skill, agility and pace left their defender for dead on the byline.
 
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