He would have done very well being in the same position as Clyne, being as he was the one who made the cross
Southampton Away - Post Match Discussion
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It's usually men with small cock that go on and on about pace and finishing...it's been proven by statistics.
Squad depth I'd proffer.
Because Brendan is suggesting we are better off with Sturridge starting, ostensibly because he's a striker but in reality simply because he doesn't like Firmino.
Actually that's exactly what Brendan said in the opening post in his comments on Firmino and why I picked up on this, not maybe or possibly but 'would have taken' :
Firmino (5) got through a good amount of work, but was a bit one-paced and ordinary. He wasn't quick enough to get past the brilliant Van Dijk, and made a total mess of an easy opportunity that a better finisher would have taken. Not one of his better games.
N.B. As an aside both Firmino and Van Dijk were timed with the quickest sprints on their respective teams. Almost identical speeds in fact. Though I have to say I have no idea how they come up with these figures because Redmond & Mane looked head and shoulders the fastest players out there !
Whilst I agree in principle it's already been shown that we suffer as a team when Sturridge replaces someone from the front line. So we are giving up some striking prowess (though considering how many goals we've been scoring that really hasn't been an issue) for a more complete team performance. This too is obvious otherwise Klopp wouldn't be persisting with one over the other. It's inconceivable Klopp doesn't see both points of view and so has made his choice and unless we can find a striker that marries goal-scoring with the creativity and stamina of e.g. Firmino, then I don't see us changing any time soon.
And of course this could well be a Catch 22 because with Origi or Sturridge starting we may not be as creative so it becomes a moot point. It's pretty easy to predict something that will inevitably come to pass sooner or later, for every team in the PL (take City's result last week at home to Middlesbro for example). The reason for it may not be so clear cut though. Hansern's comment re. our form after Internationals is easily as worthy of debate / consideration as the Sturridge question.
And as I mentioned above, it's too simplistic to say 'we lost two points', when most of our close competitors were playing relegation fodder.
There are two ways of looking at it, on a week by week basis, which as I said is simplistic, though not that accurate for comparative purposes, but it's good fun for the media & fans to talk about where we stand, or alternatively there is comparing the actual results of all teams against Southampton at St Mary's .. and we only have ours and Chelsea's win to go on there. If City and Arsenal both go there and win .. then we lost 2 points to all the competition.
Another way of putting it was no one would be saying we lost 2 points if we had drawn away at City whilst Arsenal and Chelsea had won elsewhere, it would have been a good point, which at the end of the day, although we deserved more, so was this against what is likely a Top 7 team. I believe that is almost identical to what Klopp said too (after me I might add) ! We are just going to have to disagree on this question because neither of us are going to be swayed from our position.
I couldn't agree more and in fact it's what I said above.
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I think Firmino did a fantastisk job when pressing yesterday.... And There was definately mot a chance that he would be taken off. So the decision was to sacrifise Can or Gini for Sturridge. While I can see why Klopp didnt do it earlier I think we could have benefitted from giving him more minutes. But we were in complete control in a tricky away game, hence removing one of the central guys would be a potential risk for inviting Saints back into it.
Thought clyne miss was a shocker. He is usually so good in the air too. He Couldn't even hit the target
I was ready to start cheering
Yeah, Clyne's miss was awful really, especially given he was running onto it squarely and the keeper was on his heels.
Clyne's finishing and final ball is generally woeful, so I wasn't surprised. As much as I appreciate his amazing energy and excellent defensive ability, he irritates me regularly in the final third. Just a personal thing, but he's the one player in the team I find it difficult to warm to.
Clyne's finishing and final ball is generally woeful, so I wasn't surprised. As much as I appreciate his amazing energy and excellent defensive ability, he irritates me regularly in the final third. Just a personal thing, but he's the one player in the team I find it difficult to warm to.
That game unfortunately highlights brendans fears and our one very big shortcoming. When the team is scoring it is doing it well but when not then you need the fox in the box that can keep that cool head. It sounds strange but its games like these that a Benteke comes in useful. You just need some muscle head poacher up front.
You saw Benteke's miss at the weekend didn't you ? And even the best strikers in the world only score at an average of 1:2 (and if you count games in which they score 2 or 3 then that average drops closer to 1:3), and neither Sturridge nor Origi are currently close to that.
There is no guarantee either way, though what we can say with absolute certainty is that we are performing far above where we as a forum predicted before the season started, yet some people would now like to start tinkering with the system that has taken us to where we are.
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No one is talking about tinkering with the system. It's about utilising your squad and having better in-game tactical intuition. Which is just about the only criticism anyone can really level at Klopp. There are no guarantees, but the simplicity boils down to probability and horses for courses. When youre struggling to score a goal, the best way to overcome it is to have your most potent player(s) on the pitch. It's not rocket science, disrespectful or counter-productive. The only thing that is, is having a closed mind about it all. See Rafa and Ged's failings as a case in point.
Maybe our fuhrer doesn't see Sturridge and Origi as the most potent players, it's all opinions isn't it.
Well, it's opinions if you ignore blatant stuff like facts and stats.
Klopp may not see Sturridge or Origi as part of our most potent line-up; whatever their potency as individuals.
Well he didn't come in useful last season. If Origi finds the form that he had in the big Europa games last season then he'll add yet another really exciting and effective element to the fluid attacking set-up. When you have players like that, several of them, moving all the time, you don't need a fox in the box, you just need any player in the box. Just preferably not Clyne.
He wasn't always like this, and I blame Rodgers for setting him back. When Rodgers' regime was unravelling he made the team clam up tighter than a mouse's ringpiece, in the process putting the kybosh on Clyne's attacking play, which had been a strength of his at his previous clubs. Clyne hasn't properly sorted himself out since, though I'm confident Klopp can do it.
The opponents view:
Pierre-Emile Højbjerg reflected on Southampton's draw with Liverpool, and declared the Reds as the best team he has ever faced.
The midfielder was delighted to have held the Premier League leaders to a 0-0 stalemate at St Mary's, and it was an achievement he was even more pleased with given the quality of the opposition.
"It's not only that they move the ball quickly," said Højbjerg. "They also have fast players, and with the ball they are very good one against one.
"I played in Germany against Bayern Munich and Dortmund, I played against Manchester City in the Champions League, but I must say this is maybe the best team I have ever played against.
"It's unbelievable how they move, how they stand, how they work together – it's like a symphony.
"We should be happy with the one point, but it's not that I say this is not our level. We can come up here and we have something to say up here and we showed that today."
Højbjerg added: "As always, the best is to win, but against a fantastic team like Liverpool you have to realise that a point is a fantastic result.
"They have a fantastic team and I must say the tempo of the game was unbelievably high, but with the support of the fans, with the bravery of the team and the good spirit we had a solid performance and that's what it's all about."
Pierre-Emile Højbjerg reflected on Southampton's draw with Liverpool, and declared the Reds as the best team he has ever faced.
The midfielder was delighted to have held the Premier League leaders to a 0-0 stalemate at St Mary's, and it was an achievement he was even more pleased with given the quality of the opposition.
"It's not only that they move the ball quickly," said Højbjerg. "They also have fast players, and with the ball they are very good one against one.
"I played in Germany against Bayern Munich and Dortmund, I played against Manchester City in the Champions League, but I must say this is maybe the best team I have ever played against.
"It's unbelievable how they move, how they stand, how they work together – it's like a symphony.
"We should be happy with the one point, but it's not that I say this is not our level. We can come up here and we have something to say up here and we showed that today."
Højbjerg added: "As always, the best is to win, but against a fantastic team like Liverpool you have to realise that a point is a fantastic result.
"They have a fantastic team and I must say the tempo of the game was unbelievably high, but with the support of the fans, with the bravery of the team and the good spirit we had a solid performance and that's what it's all about."
And I didn't say they were or should be. I said they are options and a threat, so when the system is struggling to find a break through, it makes sense.
Ha, that sounds just like a job application to me
No one has taken issue with that. In fact to the contrary, almost everyone agrees Sturridge should have come on much much earlier. It's Brendan's painful bleating about a 20 a season striker and constant sniping of Firmino (except when he's obviously excelled then it's begrudging praise), even though we are top scorers in the league by some distance (considering we've only played 12 games, 7 of them away from home, and 2 of the last three games were 0-0 draws) !
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