Rodgers

[Judge Jules]

Ha. Just read mark's post.

It's true that Rodgers has shown a good deal of tactical flexibility during games, but on a wider scale I'm not quite sold on the point about the defence. Yes, a third CB's been added, but we've gone from a back four to a back three, albeit with wing-backs. It seems to be working, for which hallelujah, but that's as far as I can see Rodgers being willing to go. Time will tell how well it works overall, I guess.

 

[mark1975]

Ha. Just read mark's post.

It's true that Rodgers has shown a good deal of tactical flexibility during games, but on a wider scale I'm not quite sold on the point about the defence. Yes, a third CB's been added, but we've gone from a back four to a back three, albeit with wing-backs. It seems to be working, for which hallelujah, but that's as far as I can see Rodgers being willing to go. Time will tell how well it works overall, I guess.

This I agree with - I think the crux of whether it's achieved anything longterm, will be if he takes something from this and adapts it to his overall thinking. If he just goes to all out attack again, without room for manoeuvre, then he's an idiot.

 

[Best Believe It]

We all know what WE think Rodgers needs to improve on - coaching defending - but what do you think HE thinks he most needs to improve on? It's a way of gauging how well we feel we know him. I don't think it will be signing players, because he doesn't have enough power anyway to do so. Personally I doubt he'll look back on the recent crisis as a sign that he needs to be more pragmatic. I suspect he feels he's learnt to pursue his own principles more ruthlessly than ever. He adapted a lot for Suarez, and he adapted quite a bit for Gerrard. Now I think he'll be more determined than ever to do it his way.

I think I probably agree with Rory Smith's article (think it was him) where he said that Gerrard leaving will be used as an opportunity for Rodgers to completely fashion the team in his own image, if that isn't a hyperbolic way of stating it.

 

[SummerOnions]

We're coming 3rd why are yous all stressing?

 

[mark1975]

I think I probably agree with Rory Smith's article (think it was him) where he said that Gerrard leaving will be used as an opportunity for Rodgers to completely fashion the team in his own image, if that isn't a hyperbolic way of stating it.

Not half. It's a massive hole to fill, but a massive opportunity too.

 

[peterhague]

I think I probably agree with Rory Smith's article (think it was him) where he said that Gerrard leaving will be used as an opportunity for Rodgers to completely fashion the team in his own image, if that isn't a hyperbolic way of stating it.

As long as he's not the one buying the players I can live with that.

 

[Wiberg]

I think things took the expected turn for the better when BR finally owned up to the fact that Gerrard at DM was a no go and Lucas should start every match. This alone has changed the dynamic completely. With Henderson and Lucas we get the aggression at center allowing us to press high, not just for 10 mins but for extended periods throughout the game.

It took BR too long to reach the right conclusion in regards to Gerrard but the 4 or 5 posters at SCM calling for his head should have a long hard look in the mirror. Clearly they missed the bus on this one. I think it speaks volumes for the quality of the posters on this site that most stood behind him and could see the whole picture rather than opting for the quick knee jerk in the corner at every given chance.

I see no reason why we shouldn't continue the good run from here. We have Southampton, Chelsea and Arsenal away. United, Spurs and City home. I good chance to make a decent run in Europe and maybe get the ticket to CL through the back door. The only real question is if the squad is wide enough to handle 4 competitions. That could turn out to be the breaking point this year.

We are small time on the gate at 47 million a year against Uniteds 109 million. Arsenal and Chelsea earns a hell of a lot more as well. Don't even mention the wages. FFP has changed everything and we will find it even more difficult the coming years to cope with the numbers and attract top players. It has to come though hard work. In this light the players bought is taking us in the right direction. We have to bank on 10/20 mill players who will leave for 50 mill. That's the only way forward until we reach 80 mill on the gate.

For some reason people expect miracles and the only clear message right now is: Don't! We are rebuilding so put on your sensible hat and think long term.

 

[Best Believe It]

As long as he's not the one buying the players I can live with that.

Sorry to be a pedant, but when you saying buying players, what do you mean? Identifying suitable players? Agreeing fees and/or wages? Agreeing which positions to recruit for? All of the above?

 

[Mystic]

I think things took the expected turn for the better when BR finally owned up to the fact that Gerrard at DM was a no go and Lucas should start every match. This alone has changed the dynamic completely. With Henderson and Lucas we get the aggression at center allowing us to press high, not just for 10 mins but for extended periods throughout the game.

It took BR too long to reach the right conclusion in regards to Gerrard but the 4 or 5 posters at SCM calling for his head should have a long hard look in the mirror. Clearly they missed the bus on this one. I think it speaks volumes for the quality of the posters on this site that most stood behind him and could see the whole picture rather than opting for the quick knee jerk in the corner at every given chance.

I see no reason why we shouldn't continue the good run from here. We have Southampton, Chelsea and Arsenal away. United, Spurs and City home. I good chance to make a decent run in Europe and maybe get the ticket to CL through the back door. The only real question is if the squad is wide enough to handle 4 competitions. That could turn out to be the breaking point this year.

We are small time on the gate at 47 million a year against Uniteds 109 million. Arsenal and Chelsea earns a hell of a lot more as well. Don't even mention the wages. FFP has changed everything and we will find it even more difficult the coming years to cope with the numbers and attract top players. It has to come though hard work. In this light the players bought is taking us in the right direction. We have to bank on 10/20 mill players who will leave for 50 mill. That's the only way forward until we reach 80 mill on the gate.

For some reason people expect miracles and the only clear message right now is: Don't! We are rebuilding so put on your sensible hat and think long term.

Good post, thankfully the expansion is under way and should help close the financial gate, but without Champions League football, we're really going to struggle to ever catch up the others.

 

[mark1975]

Good post, thankfully the expansion is under way and should help close the financial gate, but without Champions League football, we're really going to struggle to ever catch up the others.

To sustain success maybe, but I don't agree it's essential, we spend alot of money, we challenged last year having been out the competition a while. It's hard but it's not the be all and end all.

 

[peterhague]

I think things took the expected turn for the better when BR finally owned up to the fact that Gerrard at DM was a no go and Lucas should start every match. This alone has changed the dynamic completely. With Henderson and Lucas we get the aggression at center allowing us to press high, not just for 10 mins but for extended periods throughout the game.

It took BR too long to reach the right conclusion in regards to Gerrard but the 4 or 5 posters at SCM calling for his head should have a long hard look in the mirror. Clearly they missed the bus on this one. I think it speaks volumes for the quality of the posters on this site that most stood behind him and could see the whole picture rather than opting for the quick knee jerk in the corner at every given chance.

I see no reason why we shouldn't continue the good run from here. We have Southampton, Chelsea and Arsenal away. United, Spurs and City home. I good chance to make a decent run in Europe and maybe get the ticket to CL through the back door. The only real question is if the squad is wide enough to handle 4 competitions. That could turn out to be the breaking point this year.

We are small time on the gate at 47 million a year against Uniteds 109 million. Arsenal and Chelsea earns a hell of a lot more as well. Don't even mention the wages. FFP has changed everything and we will find it even more difficult the coming years to cope with the numbers and attract top players. It has to come though hard work. In this light the players bought is taking us in the right direction. We have to bank on 10/20 mill players who will leave for 50 mill. That's the only way forward until we reach 80 mill on the gate.

For some reason people expect miracles and the only clear message right now is: Don't! We are rebuilding so put on your sensible hat and think long term.

I would accept this if Utd and Arsenal had been operating at anything like the full potential of their budget this season. But they haven't, not even close, and we're still adrift of them both. So really it just smacks of excuse-making.

 

[peterhague]

Sorry to be a pedant, but when you saying buying players, what do you mean? Identifying suitable players? Agreeing fees and/or wages? Agreeing which positions to recruit for? All of the above?

Whatever the extent of his involvement was in us going for players such as Lallana, Lovren, Bertrand, Borini, Allen, Dempsey, Williams, etc.

Mainly, identifying the targets.

 

[mark1975]

I would accept this if Utd and Arsenal had been operating at anything like their the full potential of their budget this season. But they haven't, not even close, and we're still adrift of them both. So really it just smacks of excuse-making.

Have you seen how much United spent in the Summer and how much they put on wages?

 

[peterhague]

Have you seen how much United spent in the Summer and how much they put on wages?

By 'operating' I meant performing, not merely spending. Utd have been spending at (or somewhere approaching) the full potential of their budget, but not remotely translating that into performances. Arsenal, meanwhile, haven't been spending OR performing to their potential.

 

[Wiberg]

By 'operating' I meant performing, not merely spending. Utd have been spending at (or somewhere approaching) the full potential of their budget, but not remotely translating that into performances. Arsenal, meanwhile, haven't been spending OR performing to their potential.

United are rebuilding so we are looking at the exception and not the norm. Arsenal looks like the big FFP winner as they have almost paid for their stadium. They will be awesome in the coming years imo.

Looking at the table and the 3 to 5 points we are lagging on these two clubs I think you have every reason to except my point of view - compared to your own reasoning, right? I can't see any excuse making what so ever. Just the facts.

 

[peterhague]

United are rebuilding so we are looking at the exception and not the norm. Arsenal looks like the big FFP winner as they have almost paid for their stadium. They will be awesome in the coming years imo.

Looking at the table and the 3 to 5 points we are lagging on these two clubs I think you have every reason to except my point of view - compared to your own reasoning, right? I can't see any excuse making what so ever. Just the facts.

The point is that you were saying that we should be less demanding given the resources of our rivals, which would be fine if they'd been performing as you'd expect given those resources - but they haven't been, as you now seem to concede.

So why should we accept not competing with them in the here and now??

 

[mark1975]

The point is that you were saying that we should be less demanding given the resources of our rivals, which would be fine if they'd been performing as you'd expect given those resources - but they haven't been, as you now seem to concede.

So why should we accept not competing with them in the here and now??

United are below par, and with a gap of just 5pts, you couldn't say we're "not" competing with them really, it's a two game turn around that could see us above them in the space of a week or so of games. I could understand if they were below par and we were miles off the pace, but we're not (adrift, really?). We're off the leaders and City, because we fucked up at the start of the season and we were sucker punched by Sturridge's injury (part our fault, part luck), but "adrift" of United and Arsenal? Arsenal, for once, have maximised their outlay and have taken charge of a few of their failings, so for me they are the big threat to our chance of a top four finish, the remaining place is a battle that we're in the thick of, with United, but even Arsenal are capable of fucking up their own chances, we see it every season and we're only 4pts off them as it stands.

Let's put it slightly differently, a fight with City without having to look too hard over our shoulder was there for the taking, we fucked that up, but we haven't succumbed to anything as far as United and Arsenal go, we're right on their tails.

Yeah, we shouldn't be bemoaning the resources of our rivals, not too much anyway, we've spent heavily ourselves. But United spent in the region of £140m with only £20m made back, so that IS far ahead of what we've spent, for them to only, at present, be 5pts ahead.

 

[Wiberg]

The point is that you were saying that we should be less demanding given the resources of our rivals, which would be fine if they'd been performing as you'd expect given those resources - but they haven't been, as you now seem to concede.

So why should we accept not competing with them in the here and now??

I think I said that we should expect to be less demanding in the years to come until the gate revenue was in place?

United Manchester United, net spend £122m!
Arsenal, net spend £46m
Liverpool, net spend £36m


Losing Suarez changed everything in the 'here and now' equation. As for right here and now I think we are (miraculously enough) competing so I'm not sure what you are getting at precisely. Is it the 3 points we are lagging on Arsenal that prevents you from agreeing with my initial post?

I think that hoping for more than a top 4 this season was always utter bollocks. Nevermind expecting it. Looking at the wages, netspend and overall squad cost that is.

 

[mark1975]

I think I said that we should expect to be less demanding in the years to come until the gate revenue was in place?

United Manchester United, net spend £122m!
Arsenal, net spend £46m
Liverpool, net spend £36m


Losing Suarez changed everything in the 'here and now' equation. As for right here and now I think we are (miraculously enough) competing so I'm not sure what you are getting at precisely. Is it the 3 points we are lagging on Arsenal that prevents you from agreeing with my initial post?

I think that hoping for more than a top 4 this season was always utter bollocks. Nevermind expecting it. Looking at the wages, netspend and overall squad cost that is.

He's saying that United aren't maximising that, so we can't really use their spend as an excuse, which is fair enough in the short term, unless you consider that it kind of shows the competitiveness of the league and how difficult it can be to get short term results, in terms of outlay, etc. We know that ourselves, which is why patience is a must. And it's why it's utter bollocks that posters are saying he should probably go if we don't get CL football, because you know, he spent alot of money. This coming from two posters on here who were the biggest backers of Rafa, who squandered shitloads too.

 

[FoxForceFive]

United are rebuilding so we are looking at the exception and not the norm. Arsenal looks like the big FFP winner as they have almost paid for their stadium. They will be awesome in the coming years imo.

Looking at the table and the 3 to 5 points we are lagging on these two clubs I think you have every reason to except my point of view - compared to your own reasoning, right? I can't see any excuse making what so ever. Just the facts.

'accept my point of view' not 'except my point of view'.

I don't correct this to be pedantic, but as I know English isn't your first language & the incorrect version pretty much means the opposite of what you intended, so it's worth knowing.

 

[Wiberg]

'accept my point of view' not 'except my point of view'.

I don't correct this to be pedantic, but as I know English isn't your first language & the incorrect version pretty much means the opposite of what you intended, so it's worth knowing.

That was a Typo really - Im on my mobile - Engalisha isa my besta! :-S

 

[peterhague]

I think I said that we should expect to be less demanding in the years to come until the gate revenue was in place?

United Manchester United, net spend £122m!
Arsenal, net spend £46m
Liverpool, net spend £36m


Losing Suarez changed everything in the 'here and now' equation. As for right here and now I think we are (miraculously enough) competing so I'm not sure what you are getting at precisely. Is it the 3 points we are lagging on Arsenal that prevents you from agreeing with my initial post?

I think that hoping for more than a top 4 this season was always utter bollocks. Nevermind expecting it. Looking at the wages, netspend and overall squad cost that is.

What I'm saying is perfectly simple: until the last game (I don't know the current status of the comparison) Utd had precisely the same points from the same amount of games as they did under Moyes. That means, in short, they've been shit. Like seriously under-performing. Arsenal are doing even worse. So given that the only relevant consequence of their greater means is an ability to perform very strongly, and given that they haven't performed well at all, you can't really hold up the difference in their means as a reason we shouldn't complain at struggling to compete with them. Needless to say, the positions of Southampton, Spurs, and West Ham tend to back that point up: we haven't been poor as compared to very competitive teams - we've been poor in absolute terms.

Perhaps I didn't read your post carefully enough and you were only talking about how the situation will develop in the next few years and how we should therefore temper expectations. Tbh, though, the thrust of it seemed to be more of a complaint that lots of people's expectations have been unreasonably high. And if you were only talking about the situation in the future, the complaint must have been about other posters' expectations of those future performances. And I don't think that's true: I've never seen anyone talk about lofty demands of future performance on here, let alone enough that would be likely to prompt a cautionary response from you.

 

[Silver Sean]

We spend less and have the least experienced manager of any of the top clubs. We were also nearly doing a Leeds not that long ago. I'd say we're doing ok. We blew our first appearance in the CL for years but will learn from that. How we can finish top 4 again this year I have no idea. A lot of luck would be involved. Can't see it happening myself.

 

[peterhague]

He's saying that United aren't maximising that, so we can't really use their spend as an excuse, which is fair enough in the short term, unless you consider that it kind of shows the competitiveness of the league and how difficult it can be to get short term results, in terms of outlay, etc. We know that ourselves, which is why patience is a must. And it's why it's utter bollocks that posters are saying he should probably go if we don't get CL football, because you know, he spent alot of money. This coming from two posters on here who were the biggest backers of Rafa, who squandered shitloads too.

I don't think he should go if we don't get CL. I think, barring extraordinary results from here on in, that failing to get CL will be a badly missed opportunity, and that he'll have more or less used up the goodwill from last season. And in that case I wouldn't have any principled opposition to replacing him, but only if no-one obviously better could be found.

 

[Wiberg]

He's saying that United aren't maximising that, so we can't really use their spend as an excuse, which is fair enough in the short term, unless you consider that it kind of shows the competitiveness of the league and how difficult it can be to get short term results, in terms of outlay, etc. We know that ourselves, which is why patience is a must. And it's why it's utter bollocks that posters are saying he should probably go if we don't get CL football, because you know, he spent alot of money. This coming from two posters on here who were the biggest backers of Rafa, who squandered shitloads too.

I find short term rather uninteresting really - just like you. Looking at the budgets it's rather irrelevant if United are maximizing or not, isn't it? Just like losing Suarez really is just semantics. The point is what we can hope to do about it in the coming windows and in that aspect we are up shit creak short term and long term. The gate revenue has to be in place with the introduction of FFP. Hicks and Gillett has cost us dearly compared to Arsenal who got the job done in time.

 

[Judge Jules]

To sustain success maybe, but I don't agree it's essential, we spend alot of money, we challenged last year having been out the competition a while. It's hard but it's not the be all and end all.

That's true, but it's still very important. We need to sustain that spending like the others do, and that'll be a lot harder without CL football.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I've never lost faith in Brendan, hence my signature which was written from the first day he joined. Doubted yes, but want him gone ? Never.

Once we get a proper replacement for Suarez during the summer, everyone in here is gonna start posting how Brendan's always been their best friend and how they've been his biggest fan, etc.

I'll never understand why can't people be objective and realize that we are where we are because we have lost 2 of our top goalscorers, and have not replaced them. It's really not rocket science.

 

[mark1975]

I find short term rather uninteresting really - just like you. Looking at the budgets it's rather irrelevant if United are maximizing or not, isn't it? Just like losing Suarez really is just semantics. The point is what we can hope to do about it in the coming windows and in that aspect we are up shit creak short term and long term. The gate revenue has to be in place with the introduction of FFP. Hicks and Gillett has cost us dearly compared to Arsenal who got the job done in time.

Agreed, it's like dismissing United's Summer spend as irrelevant because they are still struggling (relatively), in the longterm they will probably benefit from this Summer's spending.

 

[Whirly]

I've still completely lost faith in Rodgers long term, and still think he should get the sack regardless this Summer.

We're picking up points against weak opposition using a set up that fits talented players into unconventional roles. And we had our greatest success under Rodgers playing the exact opposite style of what he preaches.

 

[cloggypop]

Still want Pulis then?