Rodgers the Dodger

[mark1975]

Yes I suppose I'm mostly on board with that.
But the fact that he is guaranteed multiple millions of pounds to do what he does - regardless of the outcome - makes it tougher to stomach for most. Yes, I get it. It's the going rate for that type of job, but basically he makes what all of us on here make combined to do what most on here would do for free. And whilst I know that I am far, far away from being any sort of football genius, I think that I (or any one else on here bar dreamy for that matter) could target more appropriate players, set up the team better, and inspire more fighting spirit than BR at the current time.
It's fucking infuriating.

It's more infuriating that we largely got it right in the transfer market this Summer, I think they're all decent players, but we're making them look poor. Contrast how Gomez and Clyne looked at the start of the season to now, it's like night and day - no confidence and mistakes starting to creep into their play.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

It's more infuriating that we largely got it right in the transfer market this Summer, I think they're all decent players, but we're making them look poor. Contrast how Gomez and Clyne looked at the start of the season to now, it's like night and day - no confidence and mistakes starting to creep into their play.

Agreed. JJ said it somewhere too that he still thinks we had a good window. So do I.
I think that Rodgers is going through a crisis in his own confidence. It's not on the players - you can see that they are confused, spiritless, rudderless. He has to find the way to make the players click very, very soon or even the most ardent Rodgers supporters will be calling time.

 

[mark1975]

It's hard to look beyond anything being nothing more than a temporary fix or a short term solution. We're missing Henderson, Sturridge will give us a lift, having Coutinho back in his favoured role will help too, but at the minute we look so brittle that you can't help feel that we're only another game away from another area of the team caving in. I've got no confidence in Lucas, Mignolet or Lovren, that's pretty much the spine of our team, everything else is just the gloss, but it's pointless if the structure isn't there.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

He should have been sacked after losing 6-1 to Stoke, but he wasn't, and we gave him another 70 odd million and an entire new coaching staff.

You reap what you sow I guess.

I wasn't even that angry watching that last night, that's how low we've sunk. Just sad really.

I don't hate Rodgers, I don't think he's a "cunt", or deserving of the vitriol aimed at him. He's quite clearly out of his depth, and a replacement needs to be found quickly. It's not that he doesn't care, or can't in some way actually coach - he can, it just seems that this job's too big for him.

Good point about not being angry. The game yesterday just made me dejected. He's not nearly enough for the job. I'm not sure how he kept it.

 

[6TimesaRed]

All good sides are built around a strong spine..

Our spine has numerous slipped discs..

That is for me a huge part of the problem.

 

[TheRedCrusade]

Well, you could argue that Klopp really isn't a young manager. He's 48 - 4 years older than Rafa was when he came here. Managed in the German flight for about 9 years. Enough experience in Europe as well.

Ancelotti is a top manager no doubt, but I wonder if he'd be able to replicate success at a club where he won't have a squad comprising of the very top players - he's had that at Milan, Chelsea, PSG and Madrid.

Klopp's experience is different - results and trophies at a club with limited financial resources. I really think that's the kind of experience we need.

Klopp is >>>>> gamble than Carlo. It is not Carlos mistake that he got the squads like Chlesea/Madrid /PSG Laughing he can make sure that you have a suitable squad to achieve your goals. But before those teams he has also built up his own squad at Milan who were suckin straws before he went there. He has proved it with all the squads he has managed till now that he can make small tewaks here and there to get the best out of all available players and make the system work (recent example Di Maria at Madrid or even you could say Pirlo at Milan). It is not like it is completely unknown to him about how to build a good team. With the players we have, it is not like Carlo will need 2-3 windows to build a good squad. He can get results even with the current set of players. Carlo has weaknesses but those weaknesses wont hider us for next 2-3 seasons if he is in charge of Liverpool.

Klopp on the other side, is not a bad manager in comparison to Carlo at all. But Klopp has experience at only one club as a manager. And who says his tactics in BL and with the set of players he had, it is going to work here in EPL also. Well on one side, he has built a great squad from scratch, he dealt well with the loss of several key players but on the other side, his side was facing relegation at one point (which is scary), doesnt matter how many injuries he had he still had a squad/team better than at least 10 other teams in BL.

The main reason with Carlo is, he can teach some basics of football to our naive management. Carlo with authority can tell Henry and people that 'Boss, I need that otherwise you can just gtfo'. He wont spend 100m on 10 players just because of some stupid committee or Ayre tells you 'look we will throw some cash at some player in Serbian league and lets see if he can be our Suarez.'

 

[dmishra]

Some good points - to be honest, I haven't made up my mind if the choice was between Klopp and Ancelott (which would be very good to have!).

I can certainly see the appeal that Ancelotti might have over Klopp for some people.

If we actually sack Rodgers, this would be an interesting debate.

 

[mr_moo]

. . . but . . .but . . . you just responded . . .
Look, Mark, you're a good dude for the positive passion that you espouse for the club. But that fact that you do always respond makes you the opposite equivalent of moo, hague and ninja. (And I agree with both of your positions if that seems possible.)

Exactly he can't help but respond. Nibble nibble

 

[mr_moo]

The social experiment failed

 

[mr_moo]

Good point about not being angry. The game yesterday just made me dejected. He's not nearly enough for the job. I'm not sure how he kept it.

I just laughed

 

[mr_moo]

All good sides are built around a strong spine..

Our spine has numerous slipped discs..

That is for me a huge part of the problem.

Needs a new physio to help the get over those "slipped discs"

 

[peterhague]

Its fine mate. I know the score now because its been pointed out by Del etc. Its not the fault of posters deliberately goading, its my fault for responding. Anyone reading this page can see there's been absolutely no attempt by Moo, Peter or the harbinger of the goading rule to level with anyone rationally Let them get on with it, I couldn't a fuck. Anyone with half a brain can see they're painfully inept trolls.

Mate I'm just getting my own back for the way you lot treated me before the West Ham game.

IMO you've all been made to look like fucking bellends by the subsequent turn of events. I'm going to make sure you don't forget it, that's all.

 

[dee]

Get him out. If you cant motivate the players before a trip to OT, then its over.

If the players need motivation before a trip to OT, then it's over

 

[Frogfish]

It's more infuriating that we largely got it right in the transfer market this Summer, I think they're all decent players, but we're making them look poor. Contrast how Gomez and Clyne looked at the start of the season to now, it's like night and day - no confidence and mistakes starting to creep into their play.

I don't know about that Mark. Both played very well yesterday, Clyne so well that LvG had to haul Depay off at HT and Gomez had Mata in his pocket. I thought Clyne's FK was a little rough, maybe he did obstruct him, difficult call that could have gone either way. Gomez was just a little inexperienced, he'll be better for it, and we all knew something like that was going to happen sooner or later as part of the learning process. I saw one newspaper had Gomez as his MoM before the penalty 🙂

 

[dee]

I know I'm swimming against the tide here but I DON'T want Rodgers sacked. Not yet anyway.

The reasons are:

1. I don't think there is an, even potentially, available replacement that would guarantee to improve us
2. Rodgers has shown that given the momentum of a winning side he can guide them successfully
3. The squad assembled is actually reasonably decent apart from central defense

I think it is clear than Rodgers is struggling with the position it appears he's put himself in but I really hope he finds a way to get a grip and turn this around. He has all the raw materials and, I still think, the ability to do it.

I'd like to see him get through this over the next 4-6 weeks and show that the squad, his tactics and management are the right combination for Liverpool FC.

 

[Frogfish]

Klopp.

I am just so pissed off watching Rodgers play players out of position to enforce his 433 on them.

 

[dee]

I don't know about that Mark. Both played very well yesterday, Clyne so well that LvG had to haul Depay off at HT and Gomez had Mata in his pocket. I thought Clyne's FK was a little rough, maybe he did obstruct him, difficult call that could have gone either way. Gomez was just a little inexperienced, he'll be better for it, and we all knew something like that was going to happen sooner or later as part of the learning process. I saw one newspaper had Gomez as his MoM before the penalty 🙂

Given Gomez's age, experience and potential we have to expect more than a few poor decisions over the next season or two. He's already a decent EPL player, what can he become?

 

[Frogfish]

Given Gomez's age, experience and potential we have to expect more than a few poor decisions over the next season or two. He's already a decent EPL player, what can he become?

If he continues on this upward curve he looks like he could become a damn fine CB in the Ferdinand mould.

 

[gkmacca]

Let's look at Gomez. Precociously mature. The nearest to a Stones-like gem we have. Well done to Rodgers for getting him. Now on Saturday he was one of the few players who actually wanted the ball. When he had to take throw-ins, many team mates hid like kids in a school match that was going wrong. He was far more up for it than them. Yes, he made a naive error, but he was playing out of position, and it wasn't quite as naff as Skrtel making Martial look like a genius. In this situation, I'd like Rodgers to show some conviction and say, 'Right. Gomez is CB for a long time. It's up to the others to compete alongside him.' Go with the talent. It can't be any worse than the current set up. Use him, use Ibe, play them where they feel most comfortable playing. Maybe they'll make mistakes but they'll grow, and we'll see the seeds of a future, rather than a game to game mix and match.

 

[dee]

Klopp.

I am just so pissed off watching Rodgers play players out of position to enforce his 433 on them.

We've had so many more more football-clever people on the forum pointing out why our purchases don't make sense given our system, that me making a comment is superfluous. However, the frustration for me, is the seeming lack of comperehending what does work. Ings had a few really decent pieces of possession that hurt the Mancs when he was central and Benteke was almost crying out for support.

We aren't really equipped for a 4-4-2 unfortunately but we do seem to have the personnel to play a diamond midfield with two up top if Gomez and Clyne are our FBs. Seems a little obvious?

 

[dee]

[quote="gkmacca, post: 1332739, member: 71" ]It can't be any worse than the current set up. Use him, use Ibe, play them where they feel most comfortable playing. Maybe they'll make mistakes but they'll grow, and we'll see the seeds of a future, rather than a game to game mix and match.[/quote]


I think there's always a modicum of mix and match, particularly in the home/away element but I obviously agree with the principle of playing players in their strongest positions. The difficulty with Gomez is that neither Moreno nor Enrique seem to be as effective at left back. He's sort of showed them both up.

 

[Frogfish]

We've had so many more more football-clever people on the forum pointing out why our purchases don't make sense given our system, that me making a comment is superfluous. However, the frustration for me, is the seeming lack of comperehending what does work. Ings had a few really decent pieces of possession that hurt the Mancs when he was central and Benteke was almost crying out for support.

We aren't really equipped for a 4-4-2 unfortunately but we do seem to have the personnel to play a diamond midfield with two up top if Gomez and Clyne are our FBs. Seems a little obvious?

Too obvious for Rodgers. It's what the consensus wanted to see .. and thought we were going to see once the team sheet arrived. Instead he reverted to 433 with Firmino and Ings as wing backs ... it was pure cowardice.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Anyone who persists with the abomination that is Lovren, spends gazillions on squad players but still has to resort to playing players out of position....yep he's a cunt.

 

[Rafiagra]

Let's look at Gomez. Precociously mature. The nearest to a Stones-like gem we have. Well done to Rodgers for getting him. Now on Saturday he was one of the few players who actually wanted the ball. When he had to take throw-ins, many team mates hid like kids in a school match that was going wrong. He was far more up for it than them. Yes, he made a naive error, but he was playing out of position, and it wasn't quite as naff as Skrtel making Martial look like a genius. In this situation, I'd like Rodgers to show some conviction and say, 'Right. Gomez is CB for a long time. It's up to the others to compete alongside him.' Go with the talent. It can't be any worse than the current set up. Use him, use Ibe, play them where they feel most comfortable playing. Maybe they'll make mistakes but they'll grow, and we'll see the seeds of a future, rather than a game to game mix and match.

Definitely. Get him in at CB. I almost feel sorry for Gomez in that he doesn't have anyone decent to learn from in the team (at CB). I'd just get Gomez and Sakho in together, and then you've got pace all the way through the back, which can be useful in getting out of trouble.

 

[Delinquent]

Its fine mate. I know the score now because its been pointed out by Del etc. Its not the fault of posters deliberately goading, its my fault for responding. Anyone reading this page can see there's been absolutely no attempt by Moo, Peter or the harbinger of the goading rule to level with anyone rationally Let them get on with it, I couldn't a fuck. Anyone with half a brain can see they're painfully inept trolls.

It's great that you've finally come to realise that, Mark. The forum will be better off for it.

 

[mr_moo]

Twitter rumours from across the pond, he'll be gone in the next day or two

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Twitter rumours from across the pond, he'll be gone in the next day or two

IF that's true it's quite worrying as it just highlights how fucking clueless, indecisive and gutless the knobs who own us are.

 

[Jack D Rips]

I'm going on holidays early Tuesday. I expect this to be sorted by the time I get back!

 

[King Binny]

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/the-manager.58585/page-8#post-1220655

 

[Frogfish]

That's frightening Binny as you could possibly just change 'Reading' for 'Liverpool' and that's what we're seeing now.