Ratings

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=38175.msg1023535#msg1023535 date=1262164285]
As I said Vlad - Johnson can extract himself from difficult situations because of his pace. Agbonlahor switched wings to good effect because he knew (or MON knew) that Agbonlahor would have a much easier time against someone who lacks pace - and, unless you are Sami there really is no way someone as slow as Insua can contain fast wingers without persistently fouling them.

As for being out of kilter - well go through the thread. Until the Insua issue was raised he was generally being marked down. Then the sheep factor seemed to encourage people to give him an extra point. Still he was in the range of 5 to 6 for most. Oncy was I suspect drunk when he posted, and St George admitted he was bladdered ! Other than that these were his marks :

6.5 X 1
6 X 4
5.5 X 1
5 X 2

I may have been a little harsh on him as he contributed going forward but his defensive displays (and particularly his lack of pace) are going to cost us. And I think Rory Fitzgerald seems to have nailed it with his comment :

and then proceed to pass their way around the opposition, albeit with little cutting edge up top - yet the midfielders are getting 4's, 5's and 6's, yet we give up 2 clean cut chances from corners and a rely on a good save from Pepe from an open play chance and the defenders are getting 7's and 8's ?

[/quote]
I don't understand the relevance of quoting Rory as regards your over critical view of Insua.
Fucking hell there is nothing like being selective is ther? Let's miss out all the top scores that will help the discussion.
Apart from you no one else had him in their bottom 3


regards

 

[Frogfish]

Selective ? Rory's quote was in regards to anyone giving high marks to Insua. And I mentioned both Oncy & St George but they were clearly off their rockers - they almost made him MoM !! Clearly not selective.

 

[Oncy]

How rude. Firstly I wasn't drinking. I just don't allow bias to affect my judgement. Hence good scores for all the back 4 who kept a very potent attack quiet.
I think you need to wind your neck in pal, and maybe even watch again, as every chance they had (2 for agbonlahor, 2 for Carew) with the exception of kuyt losing downing from a corner came from our right where Carra, Johnson and hard work dirk where meant to be.
Not only did Agbonlahor give up playing against insua and agger halfway through the first half, insua also pushed their fullback constantly into his own half whipped in a few lovely crosses, had a couple of long range shots charged down AND kept their best header of the ball in his pocket at all set pieces even though redknapp was convinced dunne would do him eventually.
I don't know why you're bringing up my thoughts in a bid to defend your ratings but if you wouldn't mind awfully buggering off that would be great.
Ratings are of course subjective, it just happens that on this occassion you don't agree with some folks. That's fine, wear it like a man and don't accuse me of being bonkers/drunk/biased or whatever the fuck else.
Ta. X

 

[keniget]

You can count the number of fullbacks that wouldn't get skinned by Agbonlahor in a foot race on one hand. It's absurd to use that against him.

As long as we're talking about following the crowd, it's fairly "in" to bang on about how slow Insua is, well, he's no slower than Finnan was, no slower than Carra was when he played fullback for us, no slower than O'Shea is for Utd when he often plays fullback, no slower than Ivanovic (who is now wanted by Real), no slower than... and I could go on and on. He's not that slow and certainly not some fucking snail relative to other fullbacks, so give it a rest.

 

[mark1975]

Carragher was indeed really good, but he nearly got caught out again and left for dead, and in danger of getting sent off.

Anyway, Reina was my MOTM, Gerrard is looking sharper by the game, Yossi should never play on the left, Lucas did well alone in the holding role and playing Aqua at least proves the theory that its not so much the player (Lucas) as the combination of him and Masher that's hampered us.

Insua was good again going forward, but he got left all over the place at times when caught on the break. That said, he gets zero protection with Yossi trying to play inside all the time.

EDIT, and special mention to Agger too, for looking really composed and playing some great passes from the back to relieve the pressure.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38175.msg1023569#msg1023569 date=1262168037]
How rude. Firstly I wasn't drinking. I just don't allow bias to affect my judgement. Hence good scores for all the back 4 who kept a very potent attack quiet.
I think you need to wind your neck in pal, and maybe even watch again, as every chance they had (2 for agbonlahor, 2 for Carew) with the exception of kuyt losing downing from a corner came from our right where Carra, Johnson and hard work dirk where meant to be.
Not only did Agbonlahor give up playing against insua and agger halfway through the first half, insua also pushed their fullback constantly into his own half whipped in a few lovely crosses, had a couple of long range shots charged down AND kept their best header of the ball in his pocket at all set pieces even though redknapp was convinced dunne would do him eventually.
I don't know why you're bringing up my thoughts in a bid to defend your ratings but if you wouldn't mind awfully buggering off that would be great.
Ratings are of course subjective, it just happens that on this occassion you don't agree with some folks. That's fine, wear it like a man and don't accuse me of being bonkers/drunk/biased or whatever the fuck else.
Ta. X
[/quote]

I was pleased with the defending, at least from open play Oncy. But twice we nearly let them score (and on another day they would have) from setpieces. For the first one, Insua and another were left marking no one, stood practically on top of one another, while Downing stole in on the back post and should have burried it. And then there was 'another' free header which was glanced just wide while several of our players stood marking space and essentially, no one.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Mark, perhaps it's best putting Kuyt on the left then to protect Insua (until he hits form again) and put Yossi at his stronger position? (until Riera is back at least)

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38175.msg1023582#msg1023582 date=1262169551]
Mark, perhaps it's best putting Kuyt on the left then to protect Insua (until he hits form again) and put Yossi at his stronger position? (until Riera is back at least)
[/quote]

I don't know mate, it's clear that the options we've got aren't the answer and a left winger is a big priority. I've got zero faith in Riera and Babel, while Yossi is a great little player but clearly can't perform there. I thought Kuyt had a poor one last night, his touch was poor and he gave the ball away alot and looked sluggish in possession. Shit happens, and all players hit a poor run, but we need him and Johnson back on form.

 

[vantage]

I would try Babel on the right and deadly on the left, where he has played for Holland.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38175.msg1023582#msg1023582 date=1262169551]
Mark, perhaps it's best putting Kuyt on the left then to protect Insua (until he hits form again) and put Yossi at his stronger position? (until Riera is back at least)
[/quote]

I agree with this, but Yossi should be the first choice over Dirk, form permitting.
Yossi really is wasted on the left, and the way Dirk is playing it won't make any difference where he plays.
Still he nearly got a pen through his fucking awful first touch last night.

regards

 

[Squiggles]

Reina 8
Insua 6.5
Carragher 7
Agger 7.5
Johnson 5

Aqui 4
Lucas 5
Yossi 5
Kuyt 4

Gerrard 7
Torres 7

 

[manwithnoname]

Very well said, Oncey, ratings *are* subjective

That said, making Lucarse MOTM is fucking laughable. He had one of his better games, but ratings are supposed to be a metric that can be used for the whole team, on the same scale. Lucarse gets his own ratings level, in that great for him = 9, when in actual fact he was average.

Insua was also AWOL on several occasions, and, for the record, he *is* fucking slow. Slow as fuck, and no amount of revisionist 'always been a fan' I told you so's won't change that

 

[ILD]

Didn't think Aqualani was a bad as some make out. Yes towards the end he made a few sloppy passes but at least they were forward passes. He was obviously tired and concentration level had dropped. Glen Johnson made a similar amount of misplaced passes in the second half.

Fair play to Lucas for getting stuck in too. Away from home and without Masher might have meant we lost our bite in midfield.

As for Insua, I thought it was one of his better games. He has benefited from his rest at home to Arsenal as he looked good in the last two games. I'm not as nervous any more about him, which sadly says a lot about his short career with us to date. However, he had a decent game last night and long may it continue.

On a positive note two clean sheets in a row and Reina fantastic as usual. Let's build on this momentum with a win against Spurs.
We need a motivated Gerrard and Torres to turn this season around as best we can.

 

[Ryan]

Lucas was, as others have said - excellent. And Aquilani should be very greatful for that, for he was fucking anonymous.

Two games without Mascherano, two wins. I'd take 20M for him in a fucking heartbeat.

 

[manwithnoname]

Hahahaha

Yes, Mascherano missing is the reason we have won the last two games, that despite the fact he's been our best outfield player for the last two months

 

[ILD]

I wouldn't be so quick to flog Masher on the back of two wins, with one being at home to Wolves.

Aqualani was hardly anonymous Ryan? He made a few nice inter changes with Gerrard and looks to keep the ball moving forward the majority of the time. He tired towards the end after his two games in quick succession but I'm looking forward to watching him play some part against Spurs at home.

Can't believe Villa allowed us so much time and space in midfield.

 

[Molbystwin]

Lucas played well last night, that aside with him and insua we are definitely still in the ugly duckling phase, but a good performance last night which is pleasing because aquilani obviously still hasnt settled in.

Kuyt was useful yesterday i thought and didnt play as badly as many seem to think IMO.

Villa played very very defensively and that made it very difficult for any attacking play from our lot.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38175.msg1023504#msg1023504 date=1262147901]
Reina 9
Carra 7
Agger 6
Insua 6
Johnson 4
Kuyt 3
Lucas 5
Benayoun 5
Aqua 5
Gerrard 7
Torres 7

Awful conditions, our right flank had a mare but we won and thats all that matters at the moment.
Usual suspects Kuyt, Johnson and Lucas were awful again. Yossi not good on the left. Nothing new.
Lucas/Aqua in the middle, the most lightweight midfield in our history.
The comitment was there ant thats why we stayed in the game. Hardfought win, that will be good for confidence.
[/quote]

I'm not convinced you actually watched the game - even the Lucas anti-matter in Brendan gave him a higher score. In the absence of Mascher he was important for us; copped a couple of hidings and handed out a couple in return. Went toe to toe with some lareg Villa players, never shirked his responsibilities and kept the ball moving from the back constantly.

 

[Paddy]

Frogfish. Your rating system is the biggest load of piss I have ever seen.
Insua had a fine game.

 

[Wilko7]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=38175.msg1023377#msg1023377 date=1262131426]
*Whistles for Wilko's Guide Dog to return*


[/quote]

Ah yes. Nothing wrong with my eyesight but it's tricky when reading posts on a Blackberry to scroll about to see who said what, or perhaps I just can't be arsed. Come to think of it, it's also quite tricky keeping track of posters in general and all of their guises, Sheik, Liam or whoever you are today.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=38175.msg1023672#msg1023672 date=1262177038]
Lucas played well last night, that aside with him and insua we are definitely still in the ugly duckling phase, but a good performance last night which is pleasing because aquilani obviously still hasnt settled in.

Kuyt was useful yesterday i thought and didnt play as badly as many seem to think IMO.

Villa played very very defensively and that made it very difficult for any attacking play from our lot.
[/quote]

I actually thought Kuyt was useless yesterday

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Kuyt was that crap yesterday we'd of been better off if he'd just built a snowman, dressed it with his kit and then walked off the pitch.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38175.msg1023683#msg1023683 date=1262178126]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38175.msg1023504#msg1023504 date=1262147901]
Reina 9
Carra 7
Agger 6
Insua 6
Johnson 4
Kuyt 3
Lucas 5
Benayoun 5
Aqua 5
Gerrard 7
Torres 7

Awful conditions, our right flank had a mare but we won and thats all that matters at the moment.
Usual suspects Kuyt, Johnson and Lucas were awful again. Yossi not good on the left. Nothing new.
Lucas/Aqua in the middle, the most lightweight midfield in our history.
The comitment was there ant thats why we stayed in the game. Hardfought win, that will be good for confidence.
[/quote]

I'm not convinced you actually watched the game - even the Lucas anti-matter in Brendan gave him a higher score. In the absence of Mascher he was important for us; copped a couple of hidings and handed out a couple in return. Went toe to toe with some lareg Villa players, never shirked his responsibilities and kept the ball moving from the back constantly.
[/quote]
Ratings are subjective.
Lucas was fighting as hard as he could yet he was still losing most of 50/50 challenges in the middle.
He's always late and thats why he gives so many free-kicks away and get many yellows.
Granted, Aqua didnt help him but that doesnt hide the fact he's far too lightweight to play in these physical kind of games.
Our midfield should be Mascher/Gerrard with Yossi in the hole behind Torres.

 

[mark1975]

Lech, Lucas' yellow was harsh to say the least yesterday, and he did have a good game. Put it this way, when we played them at home, with the added 'protection' of Mascherano, we were dry humped on the break, yesterday I didn't see us particularly losing any battle in midfield. I'm not suggesting that he should be there ahead of Masher, but the point is that we managed without him yesterday and still had the necessary steel to overcome them, something we failed to at Anfield where they were the first to everything.

Anyway, the yellow card decision was ridiculous.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38175.msg1023734#msg1023734 date=1262183256]

Ratings are subjective.
Lucas was fighting as hard as he could yet he was still losing most of 50/50 challenges in the middle.
He's always late and thats why he gives so many free-kicks away and get many yellows.
Granted, Aqua didnt help him but that doesnt hide the fact he's far too lightweight to play in these physical kind of games.
Our midfield should be Mascher/Gerrard with Yossi in the hole behind Torres.

[/quote]

In no way were we bullied in the midfield last night. Lucas fought his battles and won his fair share.

 

[manwithnoname]

There is no subjectivity on either side with Lucarse - and to a lesser extent Insua

Those that have for years claimed he would come good/needs time/ blah blah leap upon every display better than 'fucking dogshit' and laud it as 'motm' or excellent, when at best it was 'OK'. Bit pathetic really

There is also the other camp, not as embarrassing overall, who don't give him any credit ever, because it hurts to see such a dreadful footballer tplay for liverpool
I gave him 5, which was fair and accurate

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38175.msg1023738#msg1023738 date=1262183859]
Lech, Lucas' yellow was harsh to say the least yesterday, and he did have a good game. Put it this way, when we played them at home, with the added 'protection' of Mascherano, we were dry humped on the break, yesterday I didn't see us particularly losing any battle in midfield. I'm not suggesting that he should be there ahead of Masher, but the point is that we managed without him yesterday and still had the necessary steel to overcome them, something we failed to at Anfield where they were the first to everything.

Anyway, the yellow card decision was ridiculous.
[/quote]
Who gave a stupid free-kick and then scored a fantastic own goal vs Villa at Anfield?

The yellow wasnt ridiculous, it was like his 3rd foul in 5 minutes and he had done a couple before already.
He was not far being sent off at the end. He's always the one that gives most of the freekicks away.
Thats because his vision of the game is awful which leads him to be too late on challenges.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Paddy link=topic=38175.msg1023684#msg1023684 date=1262178594]
Frogfish. Your rating system is the biggest load of piss I have ever seen.
Insua had a fine game.
[/quote]

B.S. Fuck off Paddy you tosspot !

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38175.msg1023649#msg1023649 date=1262174222]
Very well said, Oncey, ratings *are* subjective

That said, making Lucarse MOTM is fucking laughable. He had one of his better games, but ratings are supposed to be a metric that can be used for the whole team, on the same scale. Lucarse gets his own ratings level, in that great for him = 9, when in actual fact he was average.

Insua was also AWOL on several occasions, and, for the record, he *is* fucking slow. Slow as fuck, and no amount of revisionist 'always been a fan' I told you so's won't change that
[/quote]

Oncy - didn't mean to be 'rude' mate ! (I honestly thought you must have been on the lash to rate Insua an eight) !!

There seems to be no middle road with Insua - there are those that have seen his errors and chronic lack of pace and those that plough blithely on refusing to see any fault. Must be cause he's small and cuddly.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38175.msg1023756#msg1023756 date=1262185342]
There is no subjectivity on either side with Lucarse - and to a lesser extent Insua

Those that have for years claimed he would come good/needs time/ blah blah leap upon every display better than 'fucking dogshit' and laud it as 'motm' or excellent, when at best it was 'OK'. Bit pathetic really

There is also the other camp, not as embarrassing overall, who don't give him any credit ever, because it hurts to see such a dreadful footballer tplay for liverpool
I gave him 5, which was fair and accurate
[/quote]

He played well Brendan and is showing the benefit of playing as a defensive midfielder alongside a more offensive player (a struggling Aquilani). Much of the criticism directed at Lucas this season seems to be misdirected - it's not been his fault that he's playing in a midfield two alongside another thoroughly defensive player in Masher, equalling zero creativity from midfield.

He still needs to toughen up in the tackle, but he's growing into the defensive role well for a relatively young lad. He never stops running, his passing is improving and he played some lovely one-twos last night. He was easily worth a 6.5-7.5 in my opinion.

How embarassing eh?