Ratings

[Fabio]

[quote author=grjt link=topic=42364.msg1203438#msg1203438 date=1287738144]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42364.msg1203107#msg1203107 date=1287690555]
Anyway....

Reina - 7 Solid and dependable.
Kelly - 6 Decent enough, alot came down his side though
Carra/Greek - 6 comfortable, thought we looked a bit more composed with Carra in there though.
Skrtel - 7 Threw himself at everything all night.
Konchesky - 7 Best game probably yet, two good clearances and tidy enough in possession.
Poulsen - 6.5 Good defensive play and tidy passes
Spearing - 7 Good, simple play.
Shelvey - 7 Showed glimpses of his positive play and excellent eye for a pass
Jovanovic - 6.5 Some good incisive play and good defensive covering too.
Babel - 5.5As said
N'Gog - 5.5 Ditto

[/quote]

Almost agree.

Kelly had his worst game in a Liverpool shirt, Konchesky probably deserves a 6 and PSearing (without the ball) was diabolical.

NGog is a wet fanny. I'd rather have Jason Roberts upfront at the moment.
[/quote]

slick and desired?

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42364.msg1203413#msg1203413 date=1287736762]
Shelvey hasn't got the pace to be a new Gerrard. Or the talent.

But he does look a player alright, and yes, there are shades of Alonso, but with perhaps more of an attacking bent.

He should play ahead of Lucas already, although that's probably the shittest compliment ever
[/quote]

He was the player that Rafa wanted, when he replaced Alonso with Aquilani then.

Positionally little bit further forward than Alonso, but with an equally (i'm using the word loosely here) good passing range.

Anyway, speaking of Alonso; I remember Alonso liked to show-boat with a fancy turn once in a blue moon. There was a moment in the game against Real Madrid where he pulled of a turn, and i was thinking..."fuck me, who has got the galacticos now?"

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=42364.msg1203444#msg1203444 date=1287738482]
I can see the Alonso comparisons with Shelvey. I think the most Alonsoesque player in the league, though he plays a different role (and I'm expecting pelters here so bring it on) is Charlie Adam. I've been a fan from his Rangers days. He's always been an extremely cultured passer who seems to find space in even the most congested midfield. I was interested to see how he'd cope with the pace of the prem, but so far he hasn't looked out of his depth in the slightest.
[/quote]

i knew very little of adam before blackpool came up, but to be fair to him he's held his own and has been fantastic for them. One i wouldn't mind a cheeky punt on

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42364.msg1203407#msg1203407 date=1287736466]
Alonso is, and always has been, a central midfielder with a marvellous passing range and the ability to score maybe two goals a season.

He often sits quite deep, and orchestrates play from there.

He isn't very quick, and doesn't really have the quick, tricky feet that one might associate with an 'attacking' midfielder. But that's fine, because he never was one.

He wasn't turned into anything by Benitez. He just became a better version of what he always was.

And Christ how we niss him
[/quote]

I never saw him play for Real Sociedad, but I've heard several times that he played a more attacking role for them than he did for us. He also scored 12 goals in the 2002-03 season, which would seem to back that up.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42364.msg1203456#msg1203456 date=1287739104]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42364.msg1203407#msg1203407 date=1287736466]
Alonso is, and always has been, a central midfielder with a marvellous passing range and the ability to score maybe two goals a season.

He often sits quite deep, and orchestrates play from there.

He isn't very quick, and doesn't really have the quick, tricky feet that one might associate with an 'attacking' midfielder. But that's fine, because he never was one.

He wasn't turned into anything by Benitez. He just became a better version of what he always was.

And Christ how we niss him
[/quote]

I never saw him play for Real Sociedad, but I've heard several times that he played a more attacking role for them than he did for us. He also scored 12 goals in the 2002-03 season, which would seem to back that up.

[/quote]

No he didn't! He scored just 3 goals in the 2002-03 season for Sociedad. And more often than not, he was playing CM with Aranburu.

I agree with what Brendan has to say. Xabi was never an attacking midfielder. He was a deep lying playmaker in heart, spirit, and mind; and was, in fact, loath to play higher up the pitch as it never gave him the space to orchestrate play the way he could from a deeper position.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42364.msg1203447#msg1203447 date=1287738525]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42364.msg1203413#msg1203413 date=1287736762]
Shelvey hasn't got the pace to be a new Gerrard. Or the talent.

But he does look a player alright, and yes, there are shades of Alonso, but with perhaps more of an attacking bent.

He should play ahead of Lucas already, although that's probably the shittest compliment ever
[/quote]

He was the player that Rafa wanted, when he replaced Alonso with Aquilani then.

Positionally little bit further forward than Alonso, but with an equally (i'm using the word loosely here) good passing range.

Anyway, speaking of Alonso; I remember Alonso liked to show-boat with a fancy turn once in a blue moon. There was a moment in the game against Real Madrid where he pulled of a turn, and i was thinking..."fuck me, who has got the galacticos now?"
[/quote]

Wasn't that the CL final against Milan (the 2007 one)? He did a little pirouette on the ball moments after Kaka had just done the same thing, leaving the commentators gushing about how Alonso could do everything Kaka could.

Sigh.

 

[Woland]

I thought the whole team competed better than at any point this season. They closed their players down and moved off the ball. I'd start with this side over the mongs that got spanked by Everton. Shelvey looked ace. Even the oompa loompa had the best performance I've seen from him. A non-gay-moaning-cunt of a Torres would have seen us win the match.

And we're top of the league!

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=crump link=topic=42364.msg1203495#msg1203495 date=1287741107]
I thought the whole team competed better than at any point this season. They closed their players down and moved off the ball. I'd start with this side over the mongs that got spanked by Everton. Shelvey looked ace. Even the oompa loompa had the best performance I've seen from him. A non-gay-moaning-cunt of a Torres would have seen us win the match.

And we're top of the league!
[/quote]

We played Roy Hodgson trademark footie. Kept the opposition closed down. Cleared of the line and a few other last ditches. Were lucky on a few of their headers and shot. And we had one very good chance in a bleak and pale attacking part of the play. A performance with Hodgsons fingerprints all over it.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42364.msg1203531#msg1203531 date=1287743793]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42364.msg1203495#msg1203495 date=1287741107]
I thought the whole team competed better than at any point this season. They closed their players down and moved off the ball. I'd start with this side over the mongs that got spanked by Everton. Shelvey looked ace. Even the oompa loompa had the best performance I've seen from him. A non-gay-moaning-cunt of a Torres would have seen us win the match.

And we're top of the league!
[/quote]

We played Roy Hodgson trademark footie. Kept the opposition closed down. Cleared of the line and a few other last ditches. Were lucky on a few of their headers and shot. And we had one very good chance in a bleak and pale attacking part of the play. A performance with Hodgsons fingerprints all over it.
[/quote]

I'm not gonna defend Hodgson's style of play, but last night was in an intimidating ground with a second string side against a few really good players. It was typical of many of our away performances in Europe over the last 10 years. It's not pretty but it's effective in picking up a point in probably the hardest away game we'll play in the group.

Show some perspective Insig, I know you keep insisting on telling us how defensive we are (blah, blah) but last night was the sort of circumstances where we needed to keep things tight and hope to nick a goal. Like when you accused us of being defensive in every other game (like City away where we played 442), it's not really true is it? We just haven't got going in any sense, we've been neither defensive or offensive, we've struggled to pass and get any real rhythm or cohesion going, it's not a blueprint of defensive play, it's a blueprint of not having a fucking clue how to get a team going with shape and purpose.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42364.msg1203537#msg1203537 date=1287744223]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42364.msg1203531#msg1203531 date=1287743793]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42364.msg1203495#msg1203495 date=1287741107]
I thought the whole team competed better than at any point this season. They closed their players down and moved off the ball. I'd start with this side over the mongs that got spanked by Everton. Shelvey looked ace. Even the oompa loompa had the best performance I've seen from him. A non-gay-moaning-cunt of a Torres would have seen us win the match.

And we're top of the league!
[/quote]

We played Roy Hodgson trademark footie. Kept the opposition closed down. Cleared of the line and a few other last ditches. Were lucky on a few of their headers and shot. And we had one very good chance in a bleak and pale attacking part of the play. A performance with Hodgsons fingerprints all over it.
[/quote]

I'm not gonna defend Hodgson's style of play, but last night was in an intimidating ground with a second string side against a few really good players. It was typical of many of our away performances in Europe over the last 10 years. It's not pretty but it's effective in picking up a point in probably the hardest away game we'll play in the group.

Show some perspective Insig, I know you keep insisting on telling us how defensive we are (blah, blah) but last night was the sort of circumstances where we needed to keep things tight and hope to nick a goal. Like when you accused us of being defensive in every other game (like City away where we played 442), it's not really true is it? We just haven't got going in any sense, we've been neither defensive or offensive, we've struggled to pass and get any real rhythm or cohesion going, it's not a blueprint of defensive play, it's a blueprint of not having a fucking clue how to get a team going with shape and purpose.
[/quote]

I agree. And I have said elsewhere that this was as good Liverpool performance as any we have seen this season if not better. But at the same time it shows us just what we have as manager these days. He has got this job based on a season full of these displays. Fuck - he even was voted Barclays manager of the year based on those performances (someone said so at least). This is what you can expect from him. His problem is that Gerrard, Nando, Cole, Kuyt Meireles and others are not in the game to play thisshitty footie.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42364.msg1203539#msg1203539 date=1287744595]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42364.msg1203537#msg1203537 date=1287744223]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42364.msg1203531#msg1203531 date=1287743793]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42364.msg1203495#msg1203495 date=1287741107]
I thought the whole team competed better than at any point this season. They closed their players down and moved off the ball. I'd start with this side over the mongs that got spanked by Everton. Shelvey looked ace. Even the oompa loompa had the best performance I've seen from him. A non-gay-moaning-cunt of a Torres would have seen us win the match.

And we're top of the league!
[/quote]

We played Roy Hodgson trademark footie. Kept the opposition closed down. Cleared of the line and a few other last ditches. Were lucky on a few of their headers and shot. And we had one very good chance in a bleak and pale attacking part of the play. A performance with Hodgsons fingerprints all over it.
[/quote]

I'm not gonna defend Hodgson's style of play, but last night was in an intimidating ground with a second string side against a few really good players. It was typical of many of our away performances in Europe over the last 10 years. It's not pretty but it's effective in picking up a point in probably the hardest away game we'll play in the group.

Show some perspective Insig, I know you keep insisting on telling us how defensive we are (blah, blah) but last night was the sort of circumstances where we needed to keep things tight and hope to nick a goal. Like when you accused us of being defensive in every other game (like City away where we played 442), it's not really true is it? We just haven't got going in any sense, we've been neither defensive or offensive, we've struggled to pass and get any real rhythm or cohesion going, it's not a blueprint of defensive play, it's a blueprint of not having a fucking clue how to get a team going with shape and purpose.
[/quote]

I agree. And I have said elsewhere that this was as good Liverpool performance as any we have seen this season if not better. But at the same time it shows us just what we have as manager these days. He has got this job based on a season full of these displays. Fuck - he even was voted Barclays manager of the year based on those performances (someone said so at least). This is what you can expect from him. His problem is that Gerrard, Nando, Cole, Kuyt Meireles and others are not in the game to play thisshitty footie.
[/quote]

Again, that's wide of the mark, Fulham played some good football last season (at least at home) and got some good results from it. I'm not defending what he's doing here, he's clearly not brave or tactical enough but saying he built a season of dragging a relegation side to midtable and a UEFA Cup Final solely on defensive displays is just generalising without acknowledging the facts.

His sides can be industrious and cautious yeah, but there were times last season when they also played VERY good football, did you see some of the goals they scored last season? Most sides would be proud of them, and this was coming from players like Zamora and Simon Davies.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42364.msg1203543#msg1203543 date=1287744926]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42364.msg1203539#msg1203539 date=1287744595]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42364.msg1203537#msg1203537 date=1287744223]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42364.msg1203531#msg1203531 date=1287743793]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42364.msg1203495#msg1203495 date=1287741107]
I thought the whole team competed better than at any point this season. They closed their players down and moved off the ball. I'd start with this side over the mongs that got spanked by Everton. Shelvey looked ace. Even the oompa loompa had the best performance I've seen from him. A non-gay-moaning-cunt of a Torres would have seen us win the match.

And we're top of the league!
[/quote]

We played Roy Hodgson trademark footie. Kept the opposition closed down. Cleared of the line and a few other last ditches. Were lucky on a few of their headers and shot. And we had one very good chance in a bleak and pale attacking part of the play. A performance with Hodgsons fingerprints all over it.
[/quote]

I'm not gonna defend Hodgson's style of play, but last night was in an intimidating ground with a second string side against a few really good players. It was typical of many of our away performances in Europe over the last 10 years. It's not pretty but it's effective in picking up a point in probably the hardest away game we'll play in the group.

Show some perspective Insig, I know you keep insisting on telling us how defensive we are (blah, blah) but last night was the sort of circumstances where we needed to keep things tight and hope to nick a goal. Like when you accused us of being defensive in every other game (like City away where we played 442), it's not really true is it? We just haven't got going in any sense, we've been neither defensive or offensive, we've struggled to pass and get any real rhythm or cohesion going, it's not a blueprint of defensive play, it's a blueprint of not having a fucking clue how to get a team going with shape and purpose.
[/quote]

I agree. And I have said elsewhere that this was as good Liverpool performance as any we have seen this season if not better. But at the same time it shows us just what we have as manager these days. He has got this job based on a season full of these displays. Fuck - he even was voted Barclays manager of the year based on those performances (someone said so at least). This is what you can expect from him. His problem is that Gerrard, Nando, Cole, Kuyt Meireles and others are not in the game to play thisshitty footie.
[/quote]

Again, that's wide of the mark, Fulham played some good football last season (at least at home) and got some good results from it. I'm not defending what he's doing here, he's clearly not brave or tactical enough but saying he built a season of dragging a relegation side to midtable and a UEFA Cup Final solely on defensive displays is just generalising without acknowledging the facts.

His sides can be industrious and cautious yeah, but there were times last season when they also played VERY good football, did you see some of the goals they scored last season? Most sides would be proud of them, and this was coming from players like Zamora and Simon Davies.
[/quote]

Am I really wide of the mark? I dont think so. Fantastic footie from Bobby Zamora and the gang? Ok, maybe my ambitions and hope Are way to high here.... But I know what Roy Hodgson is all about and I stand by my words that yesterdays performance was ahad his fingerprints all over. And the way you could see him more engaged than ever beofre this season on the sideline (not just hiding his head in his hands) shows that I might be correct on this one. He had it 100% his way and were lucky as hell to scrape a draw. Strong result based on opposition and our team, but still: If it look likes shit and smell like shit iyt probably is shit.

 

[Jack D Rips]

You may or may not be right in what you say, but we WERE NOT lucky as hell to scrape a draw.

 

[mark1975]

I can't even be arsed arguing the toss, because you've just ignored my points totally. Like I said, show some perspective.

What Fulham did and the point I was making has nothing to do with our hopes and ambitions, you were saying he built his season on defensive caution, which is bullshit, because anyone who watched them play last season would tell you that they played some good football at times and scored some terrific goals. *Perspective*.

It might not be good enough for us, but generalising all the time while admitting that what you're saying is loosely based on what 'someone said' is just fucking rubbish and too easy.

 

[Woland]

I know expectations have been lowered drastically in the past month, but 0-0 away against a form team in Serie A is always a good result, regardless of which dicksucker is at the helmet, and which eleven start.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=crump link=topic=42364.msg1203564#msg1203564 date=1287746484]
I know expectations have been lowered drastically in the past month, but 0-0 away against a form team in Serie A is always a good result, regardless of which dicksucker is at the helmet, and which eleven start.
[/quote]

Pretty much, though some people are acting as though it's symptomatic of Roy and his season so far, well not really because we've lacked fight, desire and the ability to defend. Last night we looked alot better on all counts, despite a few shaky moments (which is understandable under the circumstances - a botched XI and away to a Serie A side).

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42364.msg1203561#msg1203561 date=1287746258]
I can't even be arsed arguing the toss, because you've just ignored my points totally. Like I said, show some perspective.

What Fulham did and the point I was making has nothing to do with our hopes and ambitions, you were saying he built his season on defensive caution, which is bullshit, because anyone who watched them play last season would tell you that they played some good football at times and scored some terrific goals. *Perspective*.

It might not be good enough for us, but generalising all the time while admitting that what you're saying is loosely based on what 'someone said' is just fucking rubbish and too easy.
[/quote]

I havent said that we have built our season (nor their) on defensive caution. I said we closed the gaps (we have not done that earlier this season) and we cleared off the line and we were lucky that they missed a few sitters. We created one clear chance throughout the game. I know enough about Roy Hodgson to say that this is often how his teams have played. Not through fantastic footie (Still credit to Zamora and even Nevland to pull some nice goals last season) but through a very coincidal style of footie.

It is quite clear that you are not given Torres to work with and then try to have him play like Bobby Zamora? It will not work... Itdoesnt work right now.

And for the Roy Hodgson style of play, he has coached far more in my territory than in yours 😉

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42364.msg1203566#msg1203566 date=1287746626]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42364.msg1203564#msg1203564 date=1287746484]
I know expectations have been lowered drastically in the past month, but 0-0 away against a form team in Serie A is always a good result, regardless of which dicksucker is at the helmet, and which eleven start.
[/quote]

Pretty much, though some people are acting as though it's symptomatic of Roy and his season so far, well not really because we've lacked fight, desire and the ability to defend. Last night we looked alot better on all counts, despite a few shaky moments (which is understandable under the circumstances - a botched XI and away to a Serie A side).
[/quote]

But for the first time he had not a host of real world class players to trick and pony with! He had players who would have runned to the moon if that was what he asked because this was their chance. And we got a typical Roy Hodgson game. Not a game as we have seen Liverpool FC played this season, but a game on which Roy Hodgson wants us to play.

Fair result and a good performance from many of the young lads, no doubt about that, but if you put this performance in a bigger perspective this is Hodgsons style of play!