Rafa's Newcastle
- Thread starter Modo
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
I didn't think it was in any way a sign of humility
Almost the exact opposite. The fans and board were so nakedly desperate for him to continue as manager they showered him with endless praise, devotion and love, and the owner essentially ceded control of almost every aspect of the running of the club to Benitez.
He has power there that no manager has ever been afforded before
Short of saying 'You are our God and Saviour!' I'm not sure how much more Newcastle could have done
Humility? Hahaha
Almost the exact opposite. The fans and board were so nakedly desperate for him to continue as manager they showered him with endless praise, devotion and love, and the owner essentially ceded control of almost every aspect of the running of the club to Benitez.
He has power there that no manager has ever been afforded before
Short of saying 'You are our God and Saviour!' I'm not sure how much more Newcastle could have done
Humility? Hahaha
'Should have gone a season before he did'
Ffs people still talking absolute bollocks about this years after.
The season before he was sacked was the season we almost won the title with our highest ever PL points total.
But yeah. Clinging on for years by the skin of his teeth that fat bastard, wasn't he?
Ffs people still talking absolute bollocks about this years after.
The season before he was sacked was the season we almost won the title with our highest ever PL points total.
But yeah. Clinging on for years by the skin of his teeth that fat bastard, wasn't he?
Good catch.
He was let go at the right time ... but in hindsight, I'd have rather kept him for another (likely) average season than have anything to do with Roy Hodgson ... Oh well, both him and us are in a really good place (relatively speaking I guess for him) - hope we can say that at season's end.
I think all our managers have been pretty 'decent' folks ... From Rodgers to Kenny to Raf to Houllier ... I don't know if I want to include Hodgson in that list, but I'm pretty sure he's not a cunt like that twat at Manure.
Rafa has always come off like a man who become part of the city and actually got what mattered to the fans. It doesn't seem like a rarity with our club as we see the way Klopp handles himself with the fans/city etc - I guess that's a testament to the club and city.
Heh. Good catch. I'll blame that on the hangover I was nursing this am.
Rafa will get them back up and reestablish them as a Premier League club but his days as a top level coach are over after the bollox he made of the Real Madrid job and how the big players hated him.
Nah I don't buy that he screwed up in Madrid. Wasn't ever going to succeed there - was on a hiding to nothing from day one. That club doesn't have the kind of patience or afford the kind of autonomy Rafa needs. Can understand why he went there but it was always going to end up only one way.
From La Liga and Real Madrid to Newcastle in the Championship in less than a few months. Jesus, of course it's partly down to humility. that and needing a job close to home. I don't see any other manager doing that.
It was clear to me, for many years, the Club was special to him. You could see how badly he wanted to come back and acquit his name.
You'd give him a 7 Oncey? Might I suggest you consider Raising that estimation.
Throw your mind back to Houllier, and a great 2001, but generally struggling to mix it with the big boys. Getting knocked out of the Champions League by Leverkusen after being 3-0 up (Smicer for Hamann anyone), and generally struggling in Europe, and barely qualifying.
And then along comes Rafa, who with a mix of good fortune, terrific management in European games (not the PL), and having Steven Gerrard, he wins the CL Final in the best CL final of all time. Wins the FA Cup and almost the CL again. And we qualify year after year for the CL.
And after a few years of not being in the CL, wandering in the desert. year after year people still may not get what an achievement it was.
He nearly wins the league in 2009 all while having the most f-ed up backroom situation a Liverpool manager has ever had to deal with.
The man took us back to dizzy heights again. He put us back in the European Elite. He's argubly the reason he have a manager like Klopp, who probably got to see all our great European nights and how special the club is. otherwise, we'd still be off in some corner muttering about how great the 80's were to some Danish bird.
I would suggest the man deserves a 9. Shanks, Kenny, Bob, Joe get a 10.
It was clear to me, for many years, the Club was special to him. You could see how badly he wanted to come back and acquit his name.
You'd give him a 7 Oncey? Might I suggest you consider Raising that estimation.
Throw your mind back to Houllier, and a great 2001, but generally struggling to mix it with the big boys. Getting knocked out of the Champions League by Leverkusen after being 3-0 up (Smicer for Hamann anyone), and generally struggling in Europe, and barely qualifying.
And then along comes Rafa, who with a mix of good fortune, terrific management in European games (not the PL), and having Steven Gerrard, he wins the CL Final in the best CL final of all time. Wins the FA Cup and almost the CL again. And we qualify year after year for the CL.
And after a few years of not being in the CL, wandering in the desert. year after year people still may not get what an achievement it was.
He nearly wins the league in 2009 all while having the most f-ed up backroom situation a Liverpool manager has ever had to deal with.
The man took us back to dizzy heights again. He put us back in the European Elite. He's argubly the reason he have a manager like Klopp, who probably got to see all our great European nights and how special the club is. otherwise, we'd still be off in some corner muttering about how great the 80's were to some Danish bird.
I would suggest the man deserves a 9. Shanks, Kenny, Bob, Joe get a 10.
Last edited:
I don't think he's constrained like that. But anyway, I can't see that Sunderland would be a good move at all. It's a club with really deep problems. Managing that club at best is like standing on the fingers of a man hanging off a cliff - you might delay them falling off, but you won't change the situation significantly. He enhanced his reputation by keeping them up last time, but I doubt any manager will keep them up again - and on top of that Ellis Short remains furious about how he left.
I think Allardyce has two options: he can either go abroad, a la Bobby Robson, and finally show that he really does have that Allardichio genius inside of him, or he should take a club in the Championship, out of the media glare, and really build it up like he did Bolton.
It's hard to judge Houllier or Rafa, because Ged went slightly mad after his illness, and Rafa went a bit more mad after Hicks and Gillett arrived. The great 'what if?' is what might have happened had Ged stayed healthy and Rafa had had decent owners. I mean, WE all went a bit mad during the Hicks and Gillett era, it's implausible to think the manager should have remained unaffected. What I think is clear is that Houllier was crucial in taking the club about ten years into the future in terms of modernising it root and branch, and he should never be forgotten for that, and Rafa restored its reputation in Europe, so ditto for that.
If I remember it correctly we were never close to winning the league that season.
And let's not forget the actual business end: they both won trophies.
Which, really, is all that matters
For all I completely lost my rag with Rafa at times in his final season, what he was effectively doing even whilst going slightly insane, was trying to keep the public & press aware of the constraints he was working under without being able to come out & say so.
It's hard to imagine Rafa not winning a title with us if we hadn't have had the ownership problems, that forced his hand with transfers so much.
It's hard to imagine Rafa not winning a title with us if we hadn't have had the ownership problems, that forced his hand with transfers so much.
Houllier got alot of stick at the time for his approach to the academy, but in general he modernised the club from top to bottom, he got rid of the lad culture that had developed (or become outdated), and brought in stricter fitness and dietary regimes.
He put the club back on the map in Europe, we had Germany and Bayern in particular fawning over how good we were - I remember McAllister, Owen, Heskey and Gerrard being singled out for particular praise at the time of the Super Cup and then on the back of the famous England win.
He was never the same after his illness and became indecisive and meddlesome with the team.
In many ways, Rafa's tenure echoed that of Houllier. Great start, increased European standing, and a few cup finals aswell - the CL was massive, but the cup treble was too in it's significance.
Both managers built a title challenging side that could have won the league in any other season, and both failed to maintain that level in the league, through indecision and a frustrating undercurrent of stubborness, that was eventually the undoing of both.
When both went it was probably about time, both tenures had gone stale. It's easy to say with hindsight that we should have done this or that, but we challenged for the title again within 5 years so despite the upheaval in the boardroom, we weren't "finished", like many predicted.
It's taken a while for us to get some sort of European pedigree back - I don't think we fully will until Klopp is back in the CL. That's testament to both managers and their respective success in Europe and dragging Liverpool back amongst the Elite. Both men are tremendous ambassadors for the sport and have Liverpool running through the veins, their devotion to the club since shows how much we meant to them and they should be commended for that. It's time that both were looked back on for the good times.
He put the club back on the map in Europe, we had Germany and Bayern in particular fawning over how good we were - I remember McAllister, Owen, Heskey and Gerrard being singled out for particular praise at the time of the Super Cup and then on the back of the famous England win.
He was never the same after his illness and became indecisive and meddlesome with the team.
In many ways, Rafa's tenure echoed that of Houllier. Great start, increased European standing, and a few cup finals aswell - the CL was massive, but the cup treble was too in it's significance.
Both managers built a title challenging side that could have won the league in any other season, and both failed to maintain that level in the league, through indecision and a frustrating undercurrent of stubborness, that was eventually the undoing of both.
When both went it was probably about time, both tenures had gone stale. It's easy to say with hindsight that we should have done this or that, but we challenged for the title again within 5 years so despite the upheaval in the boardroom, we weren't "finished", like many predicted.
It's taken a while for us to get some sort of European pedigree back - I don't think we fully will until Klopp is back in the CL. That's testament to both managers and their respective success in Europe and dragging Liverpool back amongst the Elite. Both men are tremendous ambassadors for the sport and have Liverpool running through the veins, their devotion to the club since shows how much we meant to them and they should be commended for that. It's time that both were looked back on for the good times.
I read a couple of articles that attributed a large part of Klopp's success (& decline in final season) in Germany, to his fitness coach.
They basically stated that the training needed to be done on a knife edge, enough to ensure that players could run their bollocks off for ninety minutes, but not so much that they suffered injuries or ran out of steam before the seasons end.
I know he doesn't have that same fitness coach back, but the one he got is extremely well regarded.
As well Klopp keeping his assistant's on board, that fitness team's success at treading that fine line could be key.
Unfortunately that's not something we (or they) will know until close to the season's end.
Didn't Ferguson's reign decline when he lost his assistant? Not sure I'm remembering that correctly, but I seem to think he fucked off to be a manager himself & Utd suffered their worst spell in a long while.
Yes. I think he suffered two crises. One was losing McLaren, odd that it sounds now. He was crucial in modernising the whole coaching set up - video analysis, sports psychology, bespoke player video studies, stats-based data, sports science, etc etc. McLaren really took that set up years ahead of where it had been, and in doing so not only improved the coaching but also, ironically, rendered Ginsoak pretty much redundant on the training field and increasingly reliant on his assistant, which was another reason he was so bitter when McLaren left. Then there was Carlos Queiroz, who as you say left him in the lurch to take the Portugal job.
But I think the effects of McLaren's departure really get under-appreciated these days. His impact was a double-edged sword for Ginsoak - it prolonged the success of his squad but it also made him 'old' in coaching terms pretty much overnight.
Yeah, I remember a lot of Utd players saying Ferguson was hands off in training & rarely even watched all their training sessions, which I found odd.
Are the assistant's klopp has the same ones he's always had? Not necessarily just reliant on you macca, I know other posters know a load more about klopp than I do is all!
Are the assistant's klopp has the same ones he's always had? Not necessarily just reliant on you macca, I know other posters know a load more about klopp than I do is all!
I remember when Kidd left to become manager of Blackburn Ferguson was absurdly bitter about that too. I think he slagged Kidd off in his autobiography basically saying that he had always been shit (and this was the guy who had been his assistant throughout all the league titles).
Correct.
It's baffling how often it's overlooked by the people involved within the game.
Even when Maureen was at his best he had his team of cringy twats around him working in unison.
Hodgson mos def IS a cnut. Even when he first got the job and Kenny, who had initially wanted it himself, was given an academy role Hodgson spouted some graceless garbage in the papers about being glad that Kenny had been found another appointment because the manager's job "was never going to happen for him". At the other end of his time, there was that sour griping - again in public - about the fans chanting "DAL-GLISH, DAL-GLISH". I'd also bet a sizeable sum that the old coot was lying through his teeth when he accused Masher of having "refused to play" shortly before Masher left - in case anyone's forgotten, Masher was MOTM against the Arse less than a week before he went. Some Scando posters on here also had some interesting things to say about Hodgson's bad-tempered and vindictive reputation when he was managing over there. Don't be taken in by the "kindly granddad" routine.
Yes, since Mainz the trio have been together.
Peter Krawietz (left), Zeljko Buvac and Jurgen Klopp at Melwood
Liverpool’s famed bootroom has now become the Anfield beatroom.
“We are like a music band, with their own instrument,” says Jurgen Klopp’s assistant coach Peter Krawietz. “Jurgen is the band leader, and others are behind him playing the bass guitar or drum. I’m not sure which instrument is mine!”
Klopp may be the charismatic front man, but from the moment he accepted the call from Fenway Sports Group he came as part of a trio. Long-term aides Krawietz and Bosnian Zeljko Buvac have been part of the ensemble since his first management job in Mainz.
It has been too long since the Anfield coaching unit followed the template of Bill Shankly, his celebrated think-tank of Bob Paisley and Joe Fagan mulling over opponents with a neat whisky.
Brendan Rodgers absorbed all coaching responsibilities for three years and discarded his backroom staff when the pressure took its toll. For Kenny Dalglish’s second spell the appointments of Steve Clarke and Kevin Keen were taken independently.
Not since Rafa Benitez arrived with Pako Ayesteran and Paco Herrera – a relationship which disintegrated in their third season on Merseyside – has Liverpool’s management set-up been so reassuringly tight and harmonising.
When the idea of Klopp becoming English football’s archetypal, dictatorial boss is put to Krawietz there is a laugh.
“Yes, yes. Say this. Put in Jurgen is a dictator!” he says, shaking his head before adding a clarifying ‘no, no, no’.
“It is very collaborative how we work. We’ve been this way since we started together. Many years ago a journalist in Germany said I was ‘the eye’ and Zeljko was ‘the brain’ and people repeat it. We could only laugh at this, see it as an invention and say ‘so what is Jurgen?’
“We are all part of the team here but it is different in Germany to England. Here, as a manager, there are so many more tasks around the club so me and Zeljko try to help as much as we can.”
With Klopp on lead vocals, Krawietz may prefer to be seen as a specialist in stage direction.
Where English dressing rooms once hosted flying tea cups and hairdryers, nowadays, half-time team talks are more likely to consist of video presentations, players shown clips of where they’ve gone wrong – techniques imported to Anfield directly from Dortmund’s Westfalenstadion.
“In Mainz and Dortmund video analysis was my main task,” says Krawietz. “Here it is different because we already have a department doing all this stuff and I try to prepare – filter all the information we need and prepare meetings for the team.
“Now we have the computer in the dressing room on a match day, a projector and then the screen.
“I don’t know if we were the first to do it when we started at Mainz but we like to immediately show the players what we mean. A manager can explain a situation, ask the player about it and then we can show him. You’ve got it there to see it. It makes it easy for players to understand.
“Hopefully it should mean you correct the faults every time. I’m making the list during the game seeing what is important for us, working out if the problem is one scene or a trend – maybe a defensive problem or spaces we are not using, or the opponent has changed their set-up.
“We use this, especially at the moment, to improve the development. It is very important to be able to react at half-time and show what we can do better. We also have the cameras outside on the training pitch to use if necessary.”
The relationship between Klopp and his most trusted advisors began at Mainz under the guidance of their former manager Wolfgang Frank, the coach Krawietz says had the most profound impact on Liverpool’s manager.
“Wolfgang Frank had an idea of football which was something like a revolution in Germany based on the Arrigo Sacchi style of pressing and defending,” says Krawietz.
“It was new in Germany to play in a back four and play this way. Mainz was the first to do it and the success was unbelievable. Frank was a very important person for all of us when he came to Mainz.
"‘What? Me?’ he said to me. It was very funny. It was my task to tell him what he’d done wrong. Then we had a ‘discussion’ – if I can put it like that - as he asked me why I suggested this. It was the first time we spoke about football I can remember. It was the start.
“I always saw the possibility of him becoming a manager. He was an important player for his team but not the best player, but he had the attitude, leadership skills and understanding of his game to know what he could and could not do. He was always thinking for the team. He was very interested in the tactics and it was clear he was an outstanding person.”
After their success at Mainz and Dortmund, Klopp was determined to reunite his coaching set-up.
“He called me and said there was the possibility of Liverpool and what did I think? He said he thought we should go and I was invited,” says Krawietz.
“I was enjoying the sabbatical so it was a surprising moment but I felt his conviction that Liverpool is the right place to go. I thought for two hours and then said ‘okay’.
“I see similarities between Dortmund and Liverpool. When we came to Dortmund there were more difficulties because there were some financial problems and the club was in a situation where we had to change a few things. But there was a big potential to improve. It is the same here. We see how we can develop and build on a good base for the future. We’re at a big club with huge support and the chance for development but it must be in small steps.
The public perception of Klopp in England is one of an entertainer, both in terms of how he wants his side to play and also how he projects himself in front of the camera.
Those who know him best say there is no misrepresentation.
“I don’t watch him on the television, but this is how Jurgen is. We are all hard-working men who are completely serious on the pitch and in our work, but we are also people who like to laugh. We think football is to be enjoyed,” says Krawietz.
“I don’t know why people should believe in us other than it is possible to be successful because this is a great club with brilliant colleagues and there is the potential here. We know what we can improve and how we can improve, so our ideas are clear of what we want to do and we have confidence our way is the right way.”
There's something incredibly missing with Hodgson, I don't think it's vindictive bitterness, I just think he's completely oblivious to his own stature in the game and also the traditions and everything else that goes hand in hand with this great club. I mean, who (other than that other cunt Moyes) would stand infront of the nation after a hapless derby defeat, and label it his teams "best performance of the season"? I honestly don't think he's pre meditated in his approach, I think he's just genuinely really fucking thick. And shit. And a fucking coward.
If a team ever fully represented a manager it was his Liverpool team. Gutless and completely lacking in any sort of idea of what it was meant to be doing. His signings of Konchesky and Poulson were just as symptomatic of him - boring, mediocre & slow.
Yep. I mean, take the end of his England tenure. He has to be practically dragged to a final press conference, and says, 'I don't know why I'm here'. Incredible!
- Status