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Pre Match - Spurs (H) - 27/10

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Well if you disagree that spotting obvious offsides and handballs (and to some extent fouls in the box) isn't progress I don't know there is anything more I can say.

One final thing to mention though, as I've already implied, is that it's the implementation not the technology or officials themselves (nobody likes being made a fool of) that are the main problem, that and ambiguous (or conversely too strict) rules that either leave no room for common sense rulings or allow officials to go with the 'safe' option.

Oh my god, are you being deliberately dense? I said besides offsides... so I'm saying the offside decisions are a positive.

The handball rule is shit, so I'm not chalking that up as a win for VAR.

Fouls in the box? Have you actually seen the stonewall penalty that wasn't given against Spurs last week? There are others too. Seemingly every week.

The officials are already acting like fools. Nobody is expecting them to get every decision right. They're human. That's what VAR should be there for - to correct what they've missed. But instead, it's largely being used to back up and endorse their already erroneous decisions. That's my issue. As well as a couple of the laws. How can you not see that?
 
Well if you disagree that spotting obvious offsides and handballs (and to some extent fouls in the box) isn't progress I don't know there is anything more I can say.

One final thing to mention though, as I've already implied, is that it's the implementation not the technology or officials themselves (nobody likes being made a fool of) that are the main problem, that and ambiguous (or conversely too strict) rules that either leave no room for common sense rulings or allow officials to go with the 'safe' option.

It’s the implementation that’s making them worse. They won’t make a tight call fearful of getting it wrong. That’s confounded by VAR also refusing to make a call as they’re not clear and obvious.

The tech works. The humans don’t.
 
It’s the implementation that’s making them worse. They won’t make a tight call fearful of getting it wrong. That’s confounded by VAR also refusing to make a call as they’re not clear and obvious.

The tech works. The humans don’t.

Jesus Christ. Thank you. Which is all we've said all along. The referees are shite. Nobody is arguing against the tech itself.
 
Oh my god, are you being deliberately dense? I said besides offsides... so I'm saying the offside decisions are a positive.

The handball rule is shit, so I'm not chalking that up as a win for VAR.

Fouls in the box? Have you actually seen the stonewall penalty that wasn't given against Spurs last week? There are others too. Seemingly every week.

The officials are already acting like fools. Nobody is expecting them to get every decision right. They're human. That's what VAR should be there for - to correct what they've missed. But instead, it's largely being used to back up and endorse their already erroneous decisions. That's my issue. As well as a couple of the laws. How can you not see that?
Looks like you have a comprehension issue judging from your interpretations of my initial and now latest post. All of the above addressed already so I'll just refer you to the above to review.

I will just add that you are acting as if it was better before ! It wasn't, VAR is just highlighting refereeing errors to an extent never seen before.
 
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It’s the implementation that’s making them worse. They won’t make a tight call fearful of getting it wrong. That’s confounded by VAR also refusing to make a call as they’re not clear and obvious.

The tech works. The humans don’t.
Ha. Isn't that EXACTLY what I said above ?

However that is very different to Hal's attack on referees without any thought to the strictures and parameters they are working under .. and then he calls it corruption rather than human nature not to want to be embarrassed or to embarrass, and I quote Hal :

Mental, isn't it? I don't understand how, but it has. All it has done is further highlight their incompetence, and also now brought to the fore their corruption (? For want of a better word). They don't care about the correct call. All they care about is protecting themselves .

It is quite wrong to say they don't care about making the correct call. They do care about making an error that will see them roasted by media, commentators, fans and the FA. So they go with the safe option .. do nothing.
 
I said corruption for want of a better word. I don't think they're corrupt in the traditional sense. Just utterly incompetent and inconsistent, and determined to be proven right by the letter of their ambiguous laws.

Oh, so the referees are going to be embarrassed... so it's okay to act in their own self-interest and self-protection at the detriment of the game? Why are you glossing over that fact? It's a pretty big fucking issue. It's their job. They're paid well. They're trained. They should be performing better, and not protected when they make huge errors. Getting the right decision should be the most important thing. But at the moment, it isn't.

They're still getting roasted by everyone as it is. Nobody expects them to be perfect. They will miss things first time around. All anybody (bar you) should want is, when they make an error, to go back and make the correct call when given the opportunity. Too often that is not the case.

You seem to think the standard of refereeing is fine. It isn't. It's shambolic. You are laying almost all of the blame at the feet of the laws, absolving the referees. I am disputing that. The referees are terrible. They're making increasingly bizarre calls, and now with the opportunity to overturn those poor decisions, they are refusing to do so. And they're doing that through a combination of hiding behind these vague laws (clear and obvious error) so they're not seen as wrong and protect themselves.

The laws are set up and are used to protect the referees, not to improve the game. That is the "corruption" I'm talking about.

It's no wonder English referees are generally regarded as some of the poorest in the world, hence why there was no English representation at the latest world cup - which implemented VAR without anything close to resembling the utter clusterfuck it's been so far in the league.

But hey, let's not upset or embarrass poor Martin Atkinson and Mike Dean, and let's allow them to keep fucking up and then hide behind some vague, ambiguous wording.
 
It is quite wrong to say they don't care about making the correct call. They do care about making an error that will see them roasted by media, commentators, fans and the FA. So they go with the safe option .. do nothing.

And you're contradicting yourself here. You've literally just spelt out yourself that they'd rather protect themselves and go with the safe option, than make the correct call in fear of being wrong. Which is what I've said the entire time.
 
And you're contradicting yourself here. You've literally just spelt out yourself that they'd rather protect themselves and go with the safe option, than make the correct call in fear of being wrong. Which is what I've said the entire time.
As I said .. you clearly have a comprehension issue because you are interpreting almost everything stated incorrectly so you can attack it, even though it's meaning/intent should be clear to pretty much anyone. That's what happens when you decide to take a sentence out of context.

You use 'corrupt' for want of a better word instead of incompetent or inconsistent ? Seriously ? You made quite a rant out of that. Dictionary coming your way for Xmas !

All anybody (bar you) should want is, when they make an error, to go back and make the correct call when given the opportunity. : Don't be an idiot.

You seem to think the standard of refereeing is fine. : nowhere did I say that ... in fact I implied quite the contrary stating they go for the 'safe' decision and the rules need amending. But hey it's in line with your continuous jabbing at the person and inserting untruths to back yourself and give yourself a line to write.

Embarrassment : you still don't get it do you. No surprise there then.

Whatever, you are obviously right so rant on ..... and you have the nerve to call me dense. Fuck me.
 
I also said several times that they were incompetent and inconsistent. Now who has the comprehension issue?

I'll spell it out for you...

The referees are rubbish.

A few of the laws are rubbish.

The current use of VAR is rubbish.

The fact that the referees are more concerned about being embarrassed than making the correct call is wrong.
 
Hal - if I take your side in this argument, would you promise to be extremely positive about Liverpool's chances this season, in return?
 
And we want Fabinho to get a yellow here right? Miss the Villa game rather than risk a yellow at Villa and miss City
Yep. I've already covered this. [emoji6]

If he doesn't get a yellow I'd hope klopp drops him for villa anyway, but that means he'll just miss a match in future after he's booked, so he may as well take the booking today & just miss Villa.
 
I think without Fabinho we will struggle even against Villa, don't think we have anyone that can give the defence the protection it will need. Also it is an away game, so Gini is going to fuck it up most likely anyway.

Anyway - that aside - I think we are going to struggle against Spurs, have a really bad feeling.
 
I think without Fabinho we will struggle even against Villa, don't think we have anyone that can give the defence the protection it will need. Also it is an away game, so Gini is going to fuck it up most likely anyway.

Anyway - that aside - I think we are going to struggle against Spurs, have a really bad feeling.

similar to United - fingers crossed for us humping them but at the end of the day it’s a team of internationals in a slump that should be far better and will be really up for it
 
Liverpool: Alisson, Alexander-Arnold, Lovren, Van Dijk, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Mane, Salah, Firmino.

Subs: Adrian, Milner, Keita, Gomez, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana, Origi.
 
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