Post Milk Cup Meanderings

[Grjt2]

Well, as I said, I think it's extremely likely his agent will tell him to put in a transfer request. So saying 'it makes NO sense at all' is just wrong. What you mean to say is that it doesn't fit with YOUR expectations, which is something quite different. You, I presume, think either that Klopp plans to keep playing him for five more years, or someone has simply made an inexplicably bad business decision. We can only wait and see.

My expectations be fucked - its a lose, lose, lose scenario unless he formally asks for a move. Why would you give a player who has 2yrs left on his contract, a 5year deal well in excess of his transfer value? The situations play out:

1. Hes our #1 for the forseeable. LOSE
2. We've needlessly spunked a 15m contract on a reserve keeper LOSE
3. Were happy to pay him the entire transfer value from whatever fucking idiot club wants to buy him, to settle his completely needless contract. LOSE

 

[gkmacca]

A five year contract to protect his value makes no sense at all. There was enough time left to sell him. You could argue for a one year extension perhaps while Klopp assessed him but five? Nah.

Fine. You think it's an inexplicably stupid business decision. As I say, we'll see. No point in going in circles about this.

 

[manwithnoname]

Ha you would think we were playing Doncaster Belles reading some of this shite

I rate players and performances based on how they played and how they performed. I couldn't give a tuppenny fuck who we were playing.

 

[gkmacca]

My expectations be fucked - its a lose, lose, lose scenario unless he formally asks for a move. Why would you give a player who has 2yrs left on his contract, a 5year deal well in excess of his transfer value?

Google Ian Ayre, get his address, write to him and ask him these questions. I'm not actually the one to ask.

 

[Grjt2]

Google Ian Ayre, get his address, write to him and ask him these questions. I'm not actually the one to ask.

Good plan. Shut the forum down lads, transfer story questions to Ian Ayre, team conversations directly to Mr Klopp please.

Give it a fucking rest mate. Your posts are up there like anyone elses to be commented upon - dont act like a prepubescent teenager when somebody challenges one of them.

 

[Silver Sean]

Well thanks to this squad and our generally shitness as a club over the past few years this defeat actually hurts less than any I can remember. Not deserving of victory, and hopefully tells Klopp all he needs to know about who are in his future plans.
Victory would have been another exercise in papering over the cracks. We clearly need a fuckload of better players.

 

[gkmacca]

Good plan. Shut the forum down lads, transfer story questions to Ian Ayre, team conversations directly to Mr Klopp please.

Give it a fucking rest mate. Your posts are up there like anyone elses to be commented upon - dont act like a prepubescent teenager when somebody challenges one of them.

Look, 'mate,' you don't seem to grasp what I'm saying. I've given an opinion, you've given an opinion, there's no point continuing. If it was an abstract case, then, yes, if people have the time, there'd be mileage in it, but as it's a specific, concrete case, there's no point in doing anything else than waiting and seeing what happens. In a properly materialist sense, alien though it is in the pre-enlightened, spookily mystical world of football, you just cannot go further. Over-react at that if you wish but it's a pointless discussion to drag on endlessly on here. There's only one pre-pubescent teenaged reaction here and it's yours. Mate.

 

[manwithnoname]

Well thanks to this squad and our generally shitness as a club over the past few years this defeat actually hurts less than any I can remember. Not deserving of victory, and hopefully tells Klopp all he needs to know about who are in his future plans.
Victory would have been another exercise in papering over the cracks. We clearly need a fuckload of better players.

I think I'd have preferred victory, because I'd be quite hopeful that Klopp isn't a total fuckwit and already knows what is required, regardless of winning - or not - the League Cup.

 

[Woland]

Mignolet's been rewarded for being the worst first choice keeper we've ever had and it makes me want to smoke crack

 

[Jack D Rips]

Whilst I agree with most of Brendan's post, which is a pretty in depth analysis for someone who didn't watch the match, I think it's fair to say that Aguero, in most matches, will make even the best CBs in the league look a bit silly on one or two occasions.

There is no doubt that Klopp will need to spend big in the summer.

 

[manwithnoname]

Mignolet's been rewarded for being the worst first choice keeper we've ever had and it makes me want to smoke crack

Yeah, I've thought a few of Klopp's decisions have been a bit strange, but the Mignolet 5 year contract is the first time I've thought it was some way beyond "strange", and approaching the hinterlands of "totally retarded"

 

[manwithnoname]

Whilst I agree with most of Brendan's post, which is a pretty in depth analysis for someone who didn't watch the match, I think it's fair to say that Aguero, in most matches, will make even the best CBs in the league look a bit silly on one or two occasions.

There is no doubt that Klopp will need to spend big in the summer.

I didn't watch the match on TV. You can work out the rest, I hope.

 

[gkmacca]

It wasn't Klopp's decision, it was Ayre's 100%.

 

[Arn]

Klopp will need to spend big but not on quantity. We need quality not quanity. It will probably cost more than £150m to get them. Not more up and coming maybe star players. We need high quality players that will deliver almost from game one.

It also key that the players are team players, not players with a big ego. We need leadership on the pitch. We need players with a winning mentality.

 

[Woland]

Yeah, I've thought a few of Klopp's decisions have been a bit strange, but the Mignolet 5 year contract is the first time I've thought it was some way beyond "strange", and approaching the hinterlands of "totally retarded"

Maybe it was to lower our expectations, give us a nod that Klopp is just Rodgers in a funny disguise and not to bank on anything.

Klopp will need to spend big but not on quantity. We need quality not quanity. It will probably cost more than £150m to get them. Not more up and coming maybe star players. We need high quality players that will deliver almost from game one.

It also key that the players are team players, not players with a big ego. We need leadership on the pitch. We need players with a winning mentality.

I'd love to punch you in the balls dead hard.

 

[Grjt2]

Look, 'mate,' you don't seem to grasp what I'm saying. I've given an opinion, you've given an opinion, there's no point continuing. If it was an abstract case, then, yes, if people have the time, there'd be mileage in it, but as it's a specific, concrete case, there's no point in doing anything else than waiting and seeing what happens. In a properly materialist sense, alien though it is in the pre-enlightened, spookily mystical world of football, you just cannot go further. Over-react at that if you wish but it's a pointless discussion to drag on endlessly on here. There's only one pre-pubescent teenaged reaction here and it's yours. Mate.

Blah, blah, blah. Using the logic in your "in a properly materialist sense, alien though it is in the pre-enlightened, spookily mystical world of football, you just cannot go further" argument, you couldnt go on to state a couple of posts later "It wasn't Klopp's decision, it was Ayre's 100%". So give the holier-than-thou schtick a rest, chum, or at least try and remain consistent to your own whining.

 

[Hansern]

A new contract doesnt mean all that much anyway. The big question is whether or not he'll be our starting goalkeeper next season.
I dont think he will be.

 

[manwithnoname]

I'd love to punch you in the balls dead hard.

I wonder if arn has ever considered that his "net hate" and "life threat" crusade isn't a little more localised and specific than he may have thought?
That it isn't really an issue on this Forum generally, it's more that it's just...him who many of us specifically hate. Entirely on his own merits.

 

[Molbystwin]

Mignolet made some good saves by staying big but the crucial thing is that he let a goal in that a top keeper would save out. I think a top keeper would also expect to make the other saves Mignolet did too.

Yeah that's the real point, do we accept a goaly who regularly costs us goals whilst sometimes making good saves... The answer is no.... Goalies are fucking supposed to make good saves, the good ones at least. And that's it, he just isn't a good keeper, and we all know it.

Credit to him for keeping his head but yet again he put us in the shit and has to go. There really is very little point hoping for anything good to arrive with him in the nets... Maybe some of the older fans will know different but he is by far and away the worst keeper I can remember in a Liverpool shirt.

 

[manwithnoname]

A new contract doesnt mean all that much anyway. The big question is whether or not he'll be our starting goalkeeper next season.
I dont think he will be.

I hope not. But given Klopp was stupid enough to award him with a 5 year contract extension and has made several public positive statements about him, I do wonder.

I think most of the arguments on here about Mignolet aren't really about his merits - almost nobody wants him to be our goalkeeper anymore, even his most die-hard fans - but rather the contract situation and Klopp's opinion of him, with some people seemingly incapable of seeing any possible error in Klopp, even to the extent of trying to persuade themselves that he only gave him a five year contract and said:

"overall and as a package, Simon Mignolet is, for us, perfect because he's a smart guy, he's young enough to develop in the things he has to develop and he gives us all a good feeling when he is in the starting line-up. That's really important. We thought about it and the end result was we were sure we want to work together with him for the next few years. That's why we offered him a new contract and he took it.'

in order to boost his confidence until he could replace him in summer/ protect his value (!)/ because Ian Ayre told him to/ some other total bollocks that makes no sense.

Rather than the obvious and unpalatable truth that he genuinely rates him, and rewarded him with a massive, long-term contract until 2021 because of that.

 

[Portly]

I have always assumed that Mignolet was granted his 5-year contract because if his current contract is allowed to expire, he becomes valueless on the transfer market.

Mignolet did pull off some fabulous reflex saves against City, without which we would have been soundly beaten at the end of the 90 minutes. He is frustratingly let down by his eccentricities. One of these seems to be that he is reluctant to use his legs to clear the ball. For city's goal that he let go underneath him, he could easily have just kicked the ball away.

 

[ILD]

Is the correct thread to call out those who placed Mingolet in their top 3 for MOTM?

I don't see how a few saves can exonerate Mingolet after gifting them a goal. I would excuse him like we did with Pepe Reina in the Fa Cup Final, but the goal Mingolet conceded wasn't a blip it was the norm for him. It is sickening having a player who is actively costing us games with his errors. As if he'd get through a cup final and not fluff his lines. I rarely lose it with a player but I've no more time for him. I really enjoyed his resurgent return to form there last season for a while but it's gone beyond a joke now. He was dropped (or was he 'injured'?) for Big Bad Bogdan and he should be dropped again for Ward. It can't be any worse can it? Can Ward put on gloves? Can Ward occasionally kick it to our players? If the answer to both of those is Yes then he's on a par with Mingolet.

Mingolet is another example of a 'relegation' keeper. Just like Kirkland was. They will look decent in a bottom table club. They will have plenty of shots taken on them and they will save a decent amount. They are decent shot stoppers. That's about it. They don't have the concentration levels or ability to protect a side with aspirations higher than not to be relegated.

If he starts as our #1 next season I will lose the plot. He can't can he? It'd be a cruel joke. I'm not even going to worry about that happening. We can just wait and see but I'm confident we'll sign a new keeper in the summer. It'd be madness not to.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Yeah, I suppose conceding four at Norwich and letting Sunderland, West Ham and Leicester stick two each past us in the last month is proof of that

Well, we haven't been beaten 6-1 yet. Plus we've managed to beat Chelsea, and get to a cup final.
For me that's three in the Klopp-over-Rodgers column.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I have always assumed that Mignolet was granted his 5-year contract because if his current contract is allowed to expire, he becomes valueless on the transfer market.

Mignolet did pull off some fabulous reflex saves against City, without which we would have been soundly beaten at the end of the 90 minutes. He is frustratingly let down by his eccentricities. One of these seems to be that he is reluctant to use his legs to clear the ball. For city's goal that he let go underneath him, he could easily have just kicked the ball away.

Me too. I felt that it simply enhances his value in the transfer market this summer. Imagine the alternate scenario where Klopp publically lambastes Mignolet and lets him rot on the bench. Then, come summer every team and his mum knows we are trying to offload him for peanuts. He ends up not getting sold and we keep paying the cunt a weekly fortune until his contract expires.

 

[manwithnoname]

Me too. I felt that it simply enhances his value in the transfer market this summer. Imagine the alternate scenario where Klopp publically lambastes Mignolet and lets him rot on the bench. Then, come summer every team and his mum knows we are trying to offload him for peanuts. He ends up not getting sold and we keep paying the cunt a weekly fortune until his contract expires.

Hang on, you genuinely think he was given a new contract simply to sell him this summer? It's all a big trick?

 

[cloggypop]

This enhancing his value stuff would work a lot better if there was a queue of bigger clubs lining up to sign him but that would require him being good.

 

[ILD]

Can I put my Moreno frustrations here? I'd play anyone ahead of that chipmunk. He's what I'd call a self indulgent prick of a left back. That back heal tackle on Aguero was one of the most selfish thing I've seen from a defender in ages. He didn't care did he? He just stuck his leg back in the hope he's somehow back heal the ball away. What a spoofer. He showed against Norwich that he's capable of doing absurd tackles in the box and nearly pulled off another ridiculous one in a cup final.

Man City opened us up time and time again on his side. Aguero drifted out left for a diagonal ball and had acres of space to take it down and go at Lucas. Where was Moreno? Up the field or in no mans land, chasing his own shadow or tail or whatever distracted him for a moment. I actually hoped Navas would start. They could have run up and down their wing high fiving each other cancelling each other out. Two spoofers who have built a career out of being able to run really really fast.

I'd play anyone ahead of him at this stage, Smith, Flanagan, possibly even Enrique.

 

[Woland]

As if anyone would buy him, he's a load of fucking shite.

 

[Arn]

Can I put my Moreno frustrations here? I'd play anyone ahead of that chipmunk. He's what I'd call a self indulgent prick of a left back. That back heal tackle on Aguero was one of the most selfish thing I've seen from a defender in ages. He didn't care did he? He just stuck his leg back in the hope he's somehow back heal the ball away. What a spoofer. He showed against Norwich that he's capable of doing absurd tackles in the box and nearly pulled off another ridiculous one in a cup final.

Man City opened us up time and time again on his side. Aguero drifted out left for a diagonal ball and had acres of space to take it down and go at Lucas. Where was Moreno? Up the field or in no mans land, chasing his own shadow or tail or whatever distracted him for a moment. I actually hoped Navas had started. They could have run up and down their wing high fiving each other cancelling each other out. Two spoofers who have built a career out of being able to run really really fast.

I'd play anyone ahead of him at this stage, Smith, Flanagan, possibly even Enrique.

We don't know how high up the pitch Moreno is told to play. You also need to consider that he more or less get no help at all from the one of the attacking three on the left. Henderson isn't match fit and cover the ground he usually do. Milner helps out on the right side and make a big difference there. If Milner helped out Moreno in the same way and another player helped out Clyne then the latter one would IMO look a lot worse.

It is a team game. The midfielders and attackers must help out covering the wings.

 

[manwithnoname]

As if anyone would buy him, he's a load of fucking shite.

I'm struggling to think who would buy him, and for how much. I think we paid £9m.

Spurs, United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Leicester, Southampton, Stoke all have better keepers. Chelsea have two.

I think only Villa's Bunn is a worse goalkeeper.