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Post Milk Cup Meanderings

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We've spent pages and pages on here in the past discussing experienced international CB's and referring to them as left sided and right sided, sometimes to excuse them 'cos they were played on their 'wrong side'.

In steps our supposedly shit midfielder, RCB, LCB, against the most expensive squad in the league with one of the best strikers in the world, in a cup final, and he bossed it.

I don't want to see him moved to CB 'cos he is still the best option we have at DM, but the guy is clearly a very good footballer.
 
During the 90mins, I thought the front 3 were dogshit, any of them could have been hooked, they created nothing and looked miles away from scoring. I think Coutinho's goal was our first shot on target at 83mins? What a farce.
On another day, we lose that game 5-0, they created some great chances.
We perked up during extra time and were unlucky not to win it with some of our pressure, pity we couldn't do that in the first 90 and put the game to bed.
I thought this final, and a cup, would give great optimism for next season that we can do something under Klopp, but for me it was massively deflating, I feel now like the only way we'll get somewhere under him is if we have a mass clearout, sell the majority of the squad and get bankrolled by the owners into some new players. For me I'd probably only keep Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, then some of the youth players, I'm not arsed about the rest of them.
 
Klopp also make mistakes. He is only human. Gerrard and Carra is now gone and that means that the manager can build his squad. He is the boss, not a player. He don't need to keep or play a player because who he is.

I trust 100% in Klopp. He will make some mistakes in the transfer market but in the end he will IMO make us much stronger.
 
I know he hasn't been here very long but klopp hasn't improved a thing.

He's improved our defensive organisation. We still don't have many good defenders, but the fact we could cope for most of the game with a CB partnership of Toure and Lucas as well as a left back who can't defend, shows that.
 
A big problem is that Sturridge and Henderson isn't even close to be match fit but they must play to get fit. Sturridge looked very slow yesterday but we don't know if he ever will be as quick as he was a couple of years ago. Only by keep playing him Klopp will get the answer. We already know that Henderson isn't match fit and probably won't be this season but he still cover a lot of ground.

Should Henderson and Sturridge be sold? Time will tell. I don't think even Klopp know the answer yet.
 
Yeah, I suppose conceding four at Norwich and letting Sunderland, West Ham and Leicester stick two each past us in the last month is proof of that
 
Kompany is a big difference. He is IMO one of the three best central defenders in the world. The other two being Silva and Mascherano. It isn't easy to create chances against Man C with a match fit Kompany in the starting XI.
 
Sturridge was playing far to deep for my liking, for someone who supposedly was up top and a Striker, there where times he was just sitting in front of the Back 4..

Baffling..
 
During the 90mins, I thought the front 3 were dogshit, any of them could have been hooked, they created nothing and looked miles away from scoring. I think Coutinho's goal was our first shot on target at 83mins? What a farce.
On another day, we lose that game 5-0, they created some great chances.
We perked up during extra time and were unlucky not to win it with some of our pressure, pity we couldn't do that in the first 90 and put the game to bed.
I thought this final, and a cup, would give great optimism for next season that we can do something under Klopp, but for me it was massively deflating, I feel now like the only way we'll get somewhere under him is if we have a mass clearout, sell the majority of the squad and get bankrolled by the owners into some new players. For me I'd probably only keep Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, then some of the youth players, I'm not arsed about the rest of them.

So the only three you would keep are the three who were dogshit yesterday.
 
Lucas, based on his performances, more than deserve a place in the squad. Ideally he will be a squad player; you know he will put in a shift whenever he plays.

Talks of binning him are silly. There are so many players we should get rid before him. Now that he looks like he can be as competent in central defence - a MOTM in a cup final, his stock has never been higher.
 
The next time studge posted a twitter/instagram message saying is he is ready, he should be made to watch the cup final on loop, as his fitness levels suggest otherwise.
 
I know he hasn't been here very long but klopp hasn't improved a thing.

He hasnt bought a player yet though or had much training time with the squad.
We need new players and a pre season under him before we see some results. I'm not worried about Klopp at all.
Most were saying the rest of the season would be filled with ups and downs given we changed managers mid season and had loads of injuries, but yet we're still surprised its actually happening.

I'll be worried if he doesnt replace Ming and Moreno this summer though.
 
If we'd won, there'd be a thread full of people saying it's a worthless cup. So I guess we dodged a bullet.

The two positives, I guess, are that, (1) the players didn't completely choke like they did under Rodgers in last year's historically wretched semi final performance, and (2) they got some experience of playing in a final. That's it.

The negatives are pretty boring, as they merely echo what we've known for ages - we've got a spineless team, there's no personality stamped on it at all, and it won't be until the summer until Klopp can start to re-build it. I don't think anyone who knows Klopp's past teams will lack any faith that he can build a really strong and smart team, but he's got a hell of a lot to do here.

It's hard to judge Hendo, because he was progressing so well before his heel problem, and you can't just dismiss his chances of resuming that progress when really fit again, but at the moment he's awful. Studge is a glorious player to watch when match fit, and that game just came too soon for him.

As for the rest, Coutinho needs to have a long hard look at himself. If he was half as good as his hype he'd be a game changer on a regular basis. As it is he's the most predictable creative player I've seen in ages: (a) get the ball on the left, cut in looking for a shot: the defenders have worked out that patently obvious routine and now simply usher him all the way to the right wing and back; (b) try to jab the ball through a crowd of defenders - they don't even need to work that one out, it's just above 'monkeys trying to type a recognisable word' in the rash acts of hopefulness stakes.

This guy has all the skills to be world class but he's fast becoming his own cliche. He needs to vary his game hugely from now on if he's to genuinely surprise and dominate defences. And he needs to learn when to do his tricks - he's like a young Joe Cole at times these days with his idiotic back heels and flicks to no one in particular. He's been flattering to deceive for far too long now.

Clyne's decent but needs to improve as an attacker. Milner does well in a top team but can't lift a poor team. Firmino and Origi look like they'll be better next season. Ings and Gomez will come back. Lucas is the new Kolo. Flanno, hopefully, will soon show he's strong enough to return. And there are a few good kids.

And the rest are just not good enough. Nowhere near good enough.
 
To add to that analysis, all our players are fannies and there aren't any scousers in the side. And how come we're still so shit with set pieces? I'd have thunked anyone with half a brain could have sorted that out.
 
Sturridge shouldn't play a single minute of football between now and the end of the season without origi /firmino up top with him .
 
So the only three you would keep are the three who were dogshit yesterday.

Yes, I'd keep the 3 that were poor in a one off game yesterday but have shown consistent form previously. But, to be fair, they're not like Suarez, I wouldn't exactly be heartbroken if any of the 3 went either for the right price.
 
The next time studge posted a twitter/instagram message saying is he is ready, he should be made to watch the cup final on loop, as his fitness levels suggest otherwise.

I remember when Owen first started having serious treatment to prevent further hamstring injuries, building up the muscles around the problem area, he returned looking very heavy-legged, although he did go on to have quite a long run in the team. I suspect that's part of the problem now for Sturridge: the localised work has strengthened the legs but he's taking time to get the explosiveness back. His touch is another matter - he's come back before (e.g. Southampton) and (like Adam Johnson) immediately shown a very good touch in dangerous areas.
 
He gave Ming a five year contract.

It is odd that, when all evidence suggests he's not good enough. Klopp must see that too though so maybe he thinks Ming will mature into a top class goalie (he's still young for a keeper, no?).

I don't think any of us agree with that so maybe in training he's brilliant. He drops that many clangers though it's just so hard to believe.

It makes my head spin trying to work out why we signed him up for 5 more years.
 
It is odd that, when all evidence suggests he's not good enough. Klopp must see that too though so maybe he thinks Ming will mature into a top class goalie (he's still young for a keeper, no?).

I don't think any of us agree with that so maybe in training he's brilliant. He drops that many clangers though it's just so hard to believe. It makes my head spin.

Well, how long did he have on his contract? Two years? Bring in another keeper and his agent would have told him to run down his contract and leave on a free. Keepers are notorious for doing that - their stoicism in such circumstances is legendary. Now he either faces four years on the bench or his agent will try to get him a quick move and we'll probably recoup about half to two-thirds of his original fee. I don't think it was really a vote of confidence, just normal practice in those circumstances, but you can't come out and say it like it is. I don't see why people are so pessimistic about a new keeper coming in. Klopp wants to win, he can see he needs a better keeper, but he can also see that it will probably have no positives but plenty of negatives if he admits that publicly with months of the season still to go.
 
Well, how long did he have on his contract? Two years? Bring in another keeper and his agent would have told him to run down his contract and leave on a free. Keepers are notorious for doing that - their stoicism in such circumstances is legendary. Now he either faces four years on the bench or his agent will try to get him a quick move and we'll probably recoup about half to two-thirds of his original fee. I don't think it was really a vote of confidence, just normal practice in those circumstances, but you can't come out and say it like it is. I don't see why people are so pessimistic about a new keeper coming in. Klopp wants to win, he can see he needs a better keeper, but he can also see that it will probably have no positives but plenty of negatives if he admits that publicly with months of the season still to go.
That doesnt make sense. The value of his contract is well in excess of the money we will recoup from selling him. So that would mean we are banking upon him making a formal transfer request when we sign a better keeper, and therefore giving up his rights to his full contract - unless that happens we will have to piss away most of the transfer fee settling his contract when he moves, which doesnt position us any better than having left him on the original deal. Either that, or were so flush with cash that having a reserve keeper on a 15m contract is no biggy.
 
That doesnt make sense. The value of his contract is well in excess of the money we will recoup from selling him. So that would mean we are banking upon him making a formal transfer request when we sign a better keeper, and therefore giving up his rights to his full contract - unless that happens we will have to piss away most of the transfer fee settling his contract when he moves, which doesnt position us any better than having left him on the original deal. Either that, or were so flush with cash that having a reserve keeper on a 15m contract is no biggy.

Well, as I said, I think it's extremely likely his agent will tell him to put in a transfer request. So saying 'it makes NO sense at all' is just wrong. What you mean to say is that it doesn't fit with YOUR expectations, which is something quite different. You, I presume, think either that Klopp plans to keep playing him for five more years, or someone has simply made an inexplicably bad business decision. We can only wait and see.
 
I haven't seen the game or many of the highlights on TV, so I can't go into any in-depth analysis, but here goes:

We weren't very good and deservedly lost. We don't have enough genuinely good players; we don't have enough pace; we don't have enough goalscorers; our defence is a fucking comedy show.

We created almost nothing and only several great saves, good challenges, poor finishing from City and refereeing errors saved us from a very heavy beating. Klopp needs at least £100m and four new players this summer. That's a bare minimum.

Mignolet (3) I despair at some of the people giving him credit in MOM threads. He made several very good saves. Great. But he also allowed a ridiculous shot to go through him for their goal. So FUCK his other saves. If Mignolet makes three great saves and one cataclysmic error that leads to a goal, that means he's a shit fucking goalkeeper. Which he is. The most error-prone keeper in the league. Fucking useless cunt. Why the fuck Klopp gave him a fat new long contract is a fucking mystery, and the first black mark against him for me.

Moreno (4) Tonnes of energy and attacking effort, but very little quality end product, sadly. As for his actual job, being a defender, he was below average and lucky not to concede a penalty.

Sakho (3) Harsh to score him based on so little game time, but that's a fair enough reflection on his thankfully limited time on the pitch. He was totally humiliated by Aguero - along with Lucas - for the effort Mignolet touched onto the post, and his concussion was a hard call to make, given that he plays like a tranquillised horse with head trauma at the best of times, so I don't know how anyone could tell.

Lucas (7) Sadly, his near decade long stint at the club has once again yielded nothing. One could correctly argue that his very presence in the side - even if he can only get a game at CB these days - is a clear indicator that we aren't likely to win anything, because if Lucas is in then team, that's never a good sign as to its overall quality, but he was our best performer yesterday. He was lucky with one ridiculous challenge, and left looking silly by Aguero on one or two occasions, but overall looked the most composed defender on the pitch. In red, anyway. Man Of The Match.

Clyne (6) Dogged and determined, he had his hands full with Sterling's pace and strength and coped well. Did very little of note in an attacking sense.

Can (6) He got through a lot of work, and made some nice interceptions, but still made some odd tactical decisions and never really looked like making a decisive difference

Henderson (5) Lots of running about, as usual. Not much actual influence, also as usual. He looked fitter, but passing was not good enough.

Milner (6) He is a decent player, but he badly needs to be in a midfield that uses him as the workhorse and others to make that creative spark and dash of brilliance. But he isn't. Set-piece delivery not great.

Coutinho (6) Never stopped trying to make things happen, even if he was obviously not at his best. Most of his final balls were disappointing. Extra point for the goal.

Sturridge (6) Some great link-up play and skill, but not often enough in areas that made a difference. Didn't play centrally enough, and often wasn't in the box early enough to be a threat.

Firmino (4) I don't know what he is, or where he's supposed to be playing. False 9? He was just wandering around the pitch 40 yards from goal. No pace, penetration or goal threat. He is nowhere near good enough to play such a central and important role in our attack. as evidenced by the fact that he has scored a grand total of 6 goals in all competitions this season. Shite.
 
I haven't seen the game or many of the highlights on TV, so I can't go into any in-depth analysis, but here goes:

We weren't very good and deservedly lost. We don't have enough genuinely good players; we don't have enough pace; we don't have enough goalscorers; our defence is a fucking comedy show.

We created almost nothing and only several great saves, good challenges, poor finishing from City and refereeing errors saved us from a very heavy beating. Klopp needs at least £100m and four new players this summer. That's a bare minimum.

Mignolet (3) I despair at some of the people giving him credit in MOM threads. He made several very good saves. Great. But he also allowed a ridiculous shot to go through him for their goal. So FUCK his other saves. If Mignolet makes three great saves and one cataclysmic error that leads to a goal, that means he's a shit fucking goalkeeper. Which he is. The most error-prone keeper in the league. Fucking useless cunt. Why the fuck Klopp gave him a fat new long contract is a fucking mystery, and the first black mark against him for me.

Moreno (4) Tonnes of energy and attacking effort, but very little quality end product, sadly. As for his actual job, being a defender, he was below average and lucky not to concede a penalty.

Sakho (3) Harsh to score him based on so little game time, but that's a fair enough reflection on his thankfully limited time on the pitch. He was totally humiliated by Aguero - along with Lucas - for the effort Mignolet touched onto the post, and his concussion was a hard call to make, given that he plays like a tranquillised horse with head trauma at the best of times, so I don't know how anyone could tell.

Lucas (7) Sadly, his near decade long stint at the club has once again yielded nothing. One could correctly argue that his very presence in the side - even if he can only get a game at CB these days - is a clear indicator that we aren't likely to win anything, because if Lucas is in then team, that's never a good sign as to its overall quality, but he was our best performer yesterday. He was lucky with one ridiculous challenge, and left looking silly by Aguero on one or two occasions, but overall looked the most composed defender on the pitch. In red, anyway. Man Of The Match.

Clyne (6) Dogged and determined, he had his hands full with Sterling's pace and strength and coped well. Did very little of note in an attacking sense.

Can (6) He got through a lot of work, and made some nice interceptions, but still made some odd tactical decisions and never really looked like making a decisive difference

Henderson (5) Lots of running about, as usual. Not much actual influence, also as usual. He looked fitter, but passing was not good enough.

Milner (6) He is a decent player, but he badly needs to be in a midfield that uses him as the workhorse and others to make that creative spark and dash of brilliance. But he isn't. Set-piece delivery not great.

Coutinho (6) Never stopped trying to make things happen, even if he was obviously not at his best. Most of his final balls were disappointing. Extra point for the goal.

Sturridge (6) Some great link-up play and skill, but not often enough in areas that made a difference. Didn't play centrally enough, and often wasn't in the box early enough to be a threat.

Firmino (4) I don't know what he is, or where he's supposed to be playing. False 9? He was just wandering around the pitch 40 yards from goal. No pace, penetration or goal threat. He is nowhere near good enough to play such a central and important role in our attack. as evidenced by the fact that he has scored a grand total of 6 goals in all competitions this season. Shite.

Is the correct answer.
 
A five year contract to protect his value makes no sense at all. There was enough time left to sell him. You could argue for a one year extension perhaps while Klopp assessed him but five? Nah.
 
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