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[quote author=Stu link=topic=36729.msg973404#msg973404 date=1256743396]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973373#msg973373 date=1256741734]
no doubt the 6 are devoted members of the church of rafa rather than just fans of the club.

you can applaud mark all you want stu, in the end his comment got shown for what it was - a very clumsy attempt to disguise rafa's failure.
[/quote]

I don't really want to get dragged into anything here Rage but I have read this entire thread and that is not what Mark1975 was trying to do/say at all. I think he just picked four dud transfers and highlighted how little (in relative terms) those particular deals cost us. He also has replied to everything you have asked him yet all you seem to be doing is repeating yourself over and over again about this £8million.
[/quote]

why pick these 4 if not to disguise rafa's bigger failures?

i never came up with 8 million? come on why state 8 million if not to disguise rafa's failures?

mark never answered my question. show me where he has answered my question? infact he tried to claim that it was pellagrino degen (who he'd changed from josemi) morientes and voronin that most of us think of when we think of rafa's dud transfers. this clearly is not the case. i'm happy to forever keep quiet on rafa if anyone on here can realistically come and present a valid view that when we think of rafa's dud signings these 4 are at the front of people's lists.

I haven't misquoted him nor called him names but its he who wants to know why i'm not banned.

all this other bullshit about mourinho buying shit players is irrelevant unless certain posters want to bury rafa's poor buys by concentrating the poor buys of other managers.

and as for the muppet who would have us believe that rafa was brought in to ensure we qualified for europe. oh how our expectations have fallen.
 
Err, you called me shithead and asked what I do for a living, and yes, I have answered your question, fucking loads of times.

It was answered in the first comment, by me putting 'for example' in brackets. You were so keen on taking issue over the fact I was deliberately overlooking his other transfer mistakes, that I went on to list them all. So stop talking fucking rubbish.

The only reason you've carried this on is because you're clinging to some ill-formed myth that you're alone in the World as the only living LFC fan who doesn't have his head buried in the sand.

Get over yourself, you irritating, cock obsessed, fuckhead.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973533#msg973533 date=1256752224]
Err, you called me shithead and asked what I do for a living, and yes, I have answered your question, fucking loads of times.

It was answered in the first comment, by me putting 'for example' in brackets. You were so keen on taking issue over the fact I was deliberately overlooking his other transfer mistakes, that I went on to list them all. So stop talking fucking rubbish.

The only reason you've carried this on is because you're clinging to some ill-formed myth that you're alone in the World as the only living LFC fan who doesn't have his head buried in the sand.

Get over yourself, you irritating, cock obsessed, fuckhead.
[/quote]

go and see what u said first. i'm not the type of person to resort to name calling unless someone instigates it first.

and still you refuse to explain why you used these players as examples. do you really think that when we think of rafa's dud signings the ones you mentioned are the first (or indeed at all) on anyone's list?

oh i forgot shithead, cocksucker, cunt, wanker......
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973533#msg973533 date=1256752224]
Err, you called me shithead and asked what I do for a living, and yes, I have answered your question, fucking loads of times.

It was answered in the first comment, by me putting 'for example' in brackets. You were so keen on taking issue over the fact I was deliberately overlooking his other transfer mistakes, that I went on to list them all. So stop talking fucking rubbish.

The only reason you've carried this on is because you're clinging to some ill-formed myth that you're alone in the World as the only living LFC fan who doesn't have his head buried in the sand.

Get over yourself, you irritating, cock obsessed, fuckhead.
[/quote]

Before anyone leaps in at this point, I'd remind you that Mark is a great poster who talks sense, respects other posters and is one of the people who keeps the forum going. And this is an instance in which such a valuable poster is being wound up by someone who simply repeats the same arrogant assertions non-stop for no constructive purpose. So, for once, rather than pester him, show some solidarity and focus on the real pest. That's all.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973539#msg973539 date=1256752728]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973533#msg973533 date=1256752224]
Err, you called me shithead and asked what I do for a living, and yes, I have answered your question, fucking loads of times.

It was answered in the first comment, by me putting 'for example' in brackets. You were so keen on taking issue over the fact I was deliberately overlooking his other transfer mistakes, that I went on to list them all. So stop talking fucking rubbish.

The only reason you've carried this on is because you're clinging to some ill-formed myth that you're alone in the World as the only living LFC fan who doesn't have his head buried in the sand.

Get over yourself, you irritating, cock obsessed, fuckhead.
[/quote]

go and see what u said first. i'm not the type of person to resort to name calling unless someone instigates it first.

and still you refuse to explain why you used these players as examples. do you really think that when we think of rafa's dud signings the ones you mentioned are the first (or indeed at all) on anyone's list?

oh i forgot shithead, cocksucker, cunt, wanker......


[/quote]

Yeah but Rage, you said you you haven't misquoted me or called me names, I don't care how much you backtrack now, or try to clarify your point, I'll just continue quoting that for the next 10 pages..

Oh wait, I've got better shit to do.


Ok, for the last time regarding my 'examples', the post was made in reply to some cunt from the press slating our manager as a manager 'living off the signing of Torres', so I thought it was fair in retaliation to that to show equal ignorance for the facts in order to defend our manager and ultimately our club, given this journo was more or less labelling us a one man/two man team.

I've since expanded on the point and taken issue with both Rafa's shortcomings and Rafa's successes in the transfer market. Showing objectivity and trying to generate a healthy, less blinkered, and less stubborn debate.

Can't say fairer than that, continue as you wish, banging on about £8m, I think I've just put it as clear as I can, I defended our manager and ultimately our club, what have you been doing?
 
rage, for the sake of people who can't be bothered to wade through this 13 page thread what exactly is the point you are trying to get across?

rafa should be sacked because he hasn't won the league?
rafa should be sacked because he wasted money left right and center and the squad is still rubbish?
rafa should be sacked because josé would do a better job?
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36729.msg973554#msg973554 date=1256753686]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973533#msg973533 date=1256752224]
Err, you called me shithead and asked what I do for a living, and yes, I have answered your question, fucking loads of times.

It was answered in the first comment, by me putting 'for example' in brackets. You were so keen on taking issue over the fact I was deliberately overlooking his other transfer mistakes, that I went on to list them all. So stop talking fucking rubbish.

The only reason you've carried this on is because you're clinging to some ill-formed myth that you're alone in the World as the only living LFC fan who doesn't have his head buried in the sand.

Get over yourself, you irritating, cock obsessed, fuckhead.
[/quote]

Before anyone leaps in at this point, I'd remind you that Mark is a great poster who talks sense, respects other posters and is one of the people who keeps the forum going. And this is an instance in which such a valuable poster is being wound up by someone who simply repeats the same arrogant assertions non-stop for no constructive purpose. So, for once, rather than pester him, show some solidarity and focus on the real pest. That's all.
[/quote]

Exactly the reason i piped up when I did Macca.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973568#msg973568 date=1256755488]
Cheers lads much appreciated >🙁

He's a irritant..
[/quote]

to tell the truth I like reading both sides of the arguement, when everyone agrees it will be very 'RAWK'.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973557#msg973557 date=1256754138]
rage, for the sake of people who can't be bothered to wade through this 13 page thread what exactly is the point you are trying to get across?

rafa should be sacked because he hasn't won the league?
rafa should be sacked because he wasted money left right and center and the squad is still rubbish?
rafa should be sacked because josé would do a better job?

[/quote]

rafa was brought in to win us the league not just qualify for europe as some would have us believe to disguise his failure to date.

rafa has wasted more than 8 million pounds

when we think of rafa's dud buys names like pellogrino, josemi, morientes and voronin are not on anyone top 4 list

and yes if rafa fails to win the title again this season he should be sacked and the job offered to the special one
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36729.msg973553#msg973553 date=1256753640]
Hows your ankle Rage?
[/quote]

ankle is starting to itch but i have 5 more weeks. went and had the bandages removed from my knee, stabples looking much better than being able to see my kneecap when i last saw it. just another scar to add to the collection.

found out who's put u on ignore yet?
 
The thing that so obnoxious about Rage is when he thinks he's "won" a point, as with here, he will beat that drum repeatedly, but if you shit all over something he says as wholly unsupported by fact, (as I have many times) he'll just ignore your post, or argue some other point. Often his glee in having a "controversial" view point makes him overstate valid points until they are absurd, but he just ignores that, which makes me question whether he genuinely believes some of the more overstated things in the first place.

His conciliatory mode was obnoxious too, you shouldn't feel conciliatory, in any circumstance, after beating the mancs. Whats the point in all of this if you are incapable of feeling some joy, for fear that it might expose you as wrong. Wrong in an opinion that doesn't have a whit of impact on anything.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973570#msg973570 date=1256755617]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973568#msg973568 date=1256755488]
Cheers lads much appreciated >🙁

He's a irritant..
[/quote]

to tell the truth I like reading both sides of the arguement, when everyone agrees it will be very 'RAWK'.
[/quote]

Christ Spidey, that's more or less the 'point'. I don't think many of us have a problem with healthy debate, and most of us are objective enough to recognise shortcomings aswell as positives, you know that as well as anyone, given how long you've posted here. But this guy isn't generating reasonable, healthy debate.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973572#msg973572 date=1256755811]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973557#msg973557 date=1256754138]
rage, for the sake of people who can't be bothered to wade through this 13 page thread what exactly is the point you are trying to get across?

rafa should be sacked because he hasn't won the league?
rafa should be sacked because he wasted money left right and center and the squad is still rubbish?
rafa should be sacked because josé would do a better job?

[/quote]

rafa was brought in to win us the league not just qualify for europe as some would have us believe to disguise his failure to date.

rafa has wasted more than 8 million pounds

when we think of rafa's dud buys names like pellogrino, josemi, morientes and voronin are not on anyone top 4 list

and yes if rafa fails to win the title again this season he should be sacked and the job offered to the special one
[/quote]

Im not going to get dragged into this arguement (I've done enouge damage for one week ha ha) I will say however is don't you think a job requirement of 'league title' is a high ask?
say a manager challenges season after season but falls just short, what then?
do you see the danger of a revolving door managers?
have you thought about how much it would cost to sake rafa?
have you thought about how much it would cost to hire josé?

if you have then fair enough
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973556#msg973556 date=1256753722]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973539#msg973539 date=1256752728]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973533#msg973533 date=1256752224]
Err, you called me shithead and asked what I do for a living, and yes, I have answered your question, fucking loads of times.

It was answered in the first comment, by me putting 'for example' in brackets. You were so keen on taking issue over the fact I was deliberately overlooking his other transfer mistakes, that I went on to list them all. So stop talking fucking rubbish.

The only reason you've carried this on is because you're clinging to some ill-formed myth that you're alone in the World as the only living LFC fan who doesn't have his head buried in the sand.

Get over yourself, you irritating, cock obsessed, fuckhead.
[/quote]

go and see what u said first. i'm not the type of person to resort to name calling unless someone instigates it first.

and still you refuse to explain why you used these players as examples. do you really think that when we think of rafa's dud signings the ones you mentioned are the first (or indeed at all) on anyone's list?

oh i forgot shithead, cocksucker, cunt, wanker......


[/quote]

Yeah but Rage, you said you you haven't misquoted me or called me names, I don't care how much you backtrack now, or try to clarify your point, I'll just continue quoting that for the next 10 pages..

Oh wait, I've got better shit to do.


Ok, for the last time regarding my 'examples', the post was made in reply to some cunt from the press slating our manager as a manager 'living off the signing of Torres', so I thought it was fair in retaliation to that to show equal ignorance for the facts in order to defend our manager and ultimately our club, given this journo was more or less labelling us a one man/two man team.

I've since expanded on the point and taken issue with both Rafa's shortcomings and Rafa's successes in the transfer market. Showing objectivity and trying to generate a healthy, less blinkered, and less stubborn debate.

Can't say fairer than that, continue as you wish, banging on about £8m, I think I've just put it as clear as I can, I defended our manager and ultimately our club, what have you been doing?
[/quote]

oh get you mr superfan.

you're not going to answer my question are you - why use the 8 million figure and why use them players as examples? this would have been over a long time ago if you'd answer that.

as for your 'boys' in idiots like macca who want to walk around with their hand in their ears and their eyes shut. you keep turning to them for support mark. they have the same deluded support the manager or you don't support the club attitude as you've just demonstrated
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973580#msg973580 date=1256756182]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973572#msg973572 date=1256755811]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973557#msg973557 date=1256754138]
rage, for the sake of people who can't be bothered to wade through this 13 page thread what exactly is the point you are trying to get across?

rafa should be sacked because he hasn't won the league?
rafa should be sacked because he wasted money left right and center and the squad is still rubbish?
rafa should be sacked because josé would do a better job?

[/quote]

rafa was brought in to win us the league not just qualify for europe as some would have us believe to disguise his failure to date.

rafa has wasted more than 8 million pounds

when we think of rafa's dud buys names like pellogrino, josemi, morientes and voronin are not on anyone top 4 list

and yes if rafa fails to win the title again this season he should be sacked and the job offered to the special one
[/quote]

Im not going to get dragged into this arguement (I've done enouge damage for one week ha ha) I will say however is don't you think a job requirement of 'league title' is a high ask?
say a manager challenges season after season but falls just short, what then?
do you see the danger of a revolving door managers?
have you thought about how much it would cost to sake rafa?
have you thought about how much it would cost to hire josé?

if you have then fair enough
[/quote]

the league title is what he was brought in for
rafa hasn't challenged season after season
6 years isn't a revolving door
it'll cost us more to keep him if he's not competing for the title
if he (and i believe he can) deliver the title in his first season it'll be worth every penny.
 
Ok, for the last time regarding my 'examples', the post was made in reply to some cunt from the press slating our manager as a manager 'living off the signing of Torres', so I thought it was fair in retaliation to that to show equal ignorance for the facts in order to defend our manager and ultimately our club, given this journo was more or less labelling us a one man/two man team.

Which part didn't you understand? You're either seriously lacking or as said, on a windup. I'm starting to think it's a bit of both.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973587#msg973587 date=1256756514]
Ok, for the last time regarding my 'examples', the post was made in reply to some cunt from the press slating our manager as a manager 'living off the signing of Torres', so I thought it was fair in retaliation to that to show equal ignorance for the facts in order to defend our manager and ultimately our club, given this journo was more or less labelling us a one man/two man team.

Which part didn't you understand? You're either seriously lacking or as said, on a windup. I'm starting to think it's a bit of both.


[/quote]

what has 8 million and those 4 that immediately spring to mind have anything to do with that? what part don't you understand? on who's list of top rafa duds would feature the names of pellagrino, josemi, voronin and morientes?
 
Are you seriously debating the fact that Rafa wasn't brought in because Rafa missed out on Europe, and scraped it the following year? Rafa's number one priority was to stop the rot in our team and consolidate our position in the Champions League, as without it we'd be fucked financially. The building block upon which everything else, including title success stands, is the CL.

Of course they didn't say to the public "We're bringing in Rafa to secure at least 4th". Not only would that be defeatist, it would also give an incomplete picture, but that is a bare minimum threshold year after year.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973585#msg973585 date=1256756461]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973580#msg973580 date=1256756182]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973572#msg973572 date=1256755811]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973557#msg973557 date=1256754138]
rage, for the sake of people who can't be bothered to wade through this 13 page thread what exactly is the point you are trying to get across?

rafa should be sacked because he hasn't won the league?
rafa should be sacked because he wasted money left right and center and the squad is still rubbish?
rafa should be sacked because josé would do a better job?

[/quote]

rafa was brought in to win us the league not just qualify for europe as some would have us believe to disguise his failure to date.

rafa has wasted more than 8 million pounds

when we think of rafa's dud buys names like pellogrino, josemi, morientes and voronin are not on anyone top 4 list

and yes if rafa fails to win the title again this season he should be sacked and the job offered to the special one
[/quote]

Im not going to get dragged into this arguement (I've done enouge damage for one week ha ha) I will say however is don't you think a job requirement of 'league title' is a high ask?
say a manager challenges season after season but falls just short, what then?
do you see the danger of a revolving door managers?
have you thought about how much it would cost to sake rafa?
have you thought about how much it would cost to hire josé?

if you have then fair enough
[/quote]

the league title is what he was brought in for
rafa hasn't challenged season after season
6 years isn't a revolving door
it'll cost us more to keep him if he's not competing for the title
if he (and i believe he can) deliver the title in his first season it'll be worth every penny.
[/quote]

the league title is what he was brought in for
- says who I remember the press conference quite clearly and at no time does parry mention the title.

rafa hasn't challenged season after season
- true, but just last season we came second

6 years isn't a revolving door
-true, but it could become one if we go the way of n'castle

it'll cost us more to keep him if he's not competing for the title
if he (and i believe he can) deliver the title in his first season it'll be worth every penny.
- speculation, not challenge for the title isn't going to cost us 20 million in the short term which is exactly how much it will cost us to bin rafa
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36729.msg973592#msg973592 date=1256756716]
Are you seriously debating the fact that Rafa wasn't brought in because Rafa missed out on Europe, and scraped it the following year? Rafa's number one priority was to stop the rot in our team and consolidate our position in the Champions League, as without it we'd be fucked financially. The building block upon which everything else, including title success stands, is the CL.

Of course they didn't say to the public "We're bringing in Rafa to secure at least 4th". Not only would that be defeatist, it would also give an incomplete picture, but that is a bare minimum threshold year after year.

[/quote]

that's how I saw it, rafa 'job description' was to consolidate a CL position, I'd argue trophies weren't even on the agenda, gh had won trophies.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973591#msg973591 date=1256756707]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973587#msg973587 date=1256756514]
Ok, for the last time regarding my 'examples', the post was made in reply to some cunt from the press slating our manager as a manager 'living off the signing of Torres', so I thought it was fair in retaliation to that to show equal ignorance for the facts in order to defend our manager and ultimately our club, given this journo was more or less labelling us a one man/two man team.

Which part didn't you understand? You're either seriously lacking or as said, on a windup. I'm starting to think it's a bit of both.


[/quote]

what has 8 million and those 4 that immediately spring to mind have anything to do with that? what part don't you understand? on who's list of top rafa duds would feature the names of pellagrino, josemi, voronin and morientes?


[/quote]

No one said it was a list of 'top Rafa duds' it was labelled as an example, and as I've said, if I picked those four to show Rafa in a healthier light, it was because it was in retaliation to a journalist who clearly had the facts wrong. Go back to the original post and read through it properly, I quoted the post I'd put on the guys blog.

It wasn't used in retaliation to anyone's post on this forum, you were the only poster to take issue with it and use it out of context to stir debate. And his other failures were noted by myself later in the thread.

If a Liverpool fan had asked me whom I thought were Rafa's biggest failures, and that was my reply, then you'd have an issue, the problem is, that wasn't any thing like the context it was originally intended, and that much is clear to anyone who reads it, and my subsequent posts.

Cue your next post where ask me what the fuck that all has to do with £8m, why I still haven't answered your question, blah blah..
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973600#msg973600 date=1256757008]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36729.msg973592#msg973592 date=1256756716]
Are you seriously debating the fact that Rafa wasn't brought in because Rafa missed out on Europe, and scraped it the following year? Rafa's number one priority was to stop the rot in our team and consolidate our position in the Champions League, as without it we'd be fucked financially. The building block upon which everything else, including title success stands, is the CL.

Of course they didn't say to the public "We're bringing in Rafa to secure at least 4th". Not only would that be defeatist, it would also give an incomplete picture, but that is a bare minimum threshold year after year.

[/quote]

that's how I saw it, rafa 'job description' was to consolidate a CL position, I'd argue trophies weren't even on the agenda, gh had won trophies.
[/quote]

Trophies were on the agenda, but the CL is the primary requirement that generates success in the others.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973601#msg973601 date=1256757114]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36729.msg973591#msg973591 date=1256756707]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36729.msg973587#msg973587 date=1256756514]
Ok, for the last time regarding my 'examples', the post was made in reply to some cunt from the press slating our manager as a manager 'living off the signing of Torres', so I thought it was fair in retaliation to that to show equal ignorance for the facts in order to defend our manager and ultimately our club, given this journo was more or less labelling us a one man/two man team.

Which part didn't you understand? You're either seriously lacking or as said, on a windup. I'm starting to think it's a bit of both.


[/quote]

what has 8 million and those 4 that immediately spring to mind have anything to do with that? what part don't you understand? on who's list of top rafa duds would feature the names of pellagrino, josemi, voronin and morientes?


[/quote]

No one said it was a list of 'top Rafa duds' it was labelled as an example, and as I've said, if I picked those four to show Rafa in a healthier light, it was because it was in retaliation to a journalist who clearly had the facts wrong. Go back to the original post and read through it properly, I quoted the post I'd put on the guys blog.

It wasn't used in retaliation to anyone's post on this forum, you were the only poster to take issue with it and use it out of context to stir debate. And his other failures were noted by myself later in the thread.

If a Liverpool fan had asked me whom I thought were Rafa's biggest failures, and that was my reply, then you'd have an issue, the problem is, that wasn't any thing like the context it was originally intended, and that much is clear to anyone who reads it, and my subsequent posts.

Cue your next post where ask me what the fuck that all has to do with £8m, why I still haven't answered your question, blah blah..
[/quote]

indeed
 
If that's not an example of what Rage has spent the entire thread doing, and much of his time on 6cm, then I don't know what is.

The end.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36729.msg973604#msg973604 date=1256757187]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36729.msg973600#msg973600 date=1256757008]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36729.msg973592#msg973592 date=1256756716]
Are you seriously debating the fact that Rafa wasn't brought in because Rafa missed out on Europe, and scraped it the following year? Rafa's number one priority was to stop the rot in our team and consolidate our position in the Champions League, as without it we'd be fucked financially. The building block upon which everything else, including title success stands, is the CL.

Of course they didn't say to the public "We're bringing in Rafa to secure at least 4th". Not only would that be defeatist, it would also give an incomplete picture, but that is a bare minimum threshold year after year.

[/quote]

that's how I saw it, rafa 'job description' was to consolidate a CL position, I'd argue trophies weren't even on the agenda, gh had won trophies.
[/quote]

Trophies were on the agenda, but the CL is the primary requirement that generates success in the others.
[/quote]

if rafa made top 2 three seasons in a row (not including last season) but failed to win a cup, taking the tally to 6 years (of no silverware) do you think he would be sacked? I don't.
 
the end. no this is only the beginning. i will always challenge revisionists who seek to continue to disguise rafa's failings.
 
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