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NFL Thread 2013-2014

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Real football, man football, is only played in real weather, man weather. You'll love it.

Winston probably has to win it at this point. a) He's ridiculous. b) there's a feeling that, while they are a complete team, his general ridiculousness is what has tipped FSU over the top. c) it's probably the best first freshman QB season ever. d) He's ridiculous.

We can pretty much count Manziel out right now. He'll probably be in New York, but he won't win. A&M are slightly out of the limelight right now, and he's had a few picks recently whilst forcing things. A very solid argument can be made that he is the most valuable player to any one team, as A&M would be fucked without him with their defence, and FSU would be a good side anyway. But things don't really work that way. Hence, McCarron could pick up a third national title ring (fourth, if you count his redshirt season) but not get a Heisman, because Bama are wicked top to bottom. That said, at this point McCarron is probably Winston's biggest threat. There might well be a 'Jessica Lange' sentiment in the media, leading to him getting votes for his amazing cumulative sickness with Alabama, rather than this season in particular. But I doubt it.

The one possible spanner in the works is this sexual battery story about Winston, but I don't know how real that is yet or whether it'll get traction with voters. Depends on the coming media coverage, and whether Tallahassee PD directly contact Winston, I suppose.
 
Well that was worth it in the end.

Bears win in OT.

1.5 hour delay because of impending fucking tornado, then the game recommences on pitch of shit. How Flacco ever lead that shower of shite to a superbowl is beyond me.

BEAR DOWN I guess.
 
MC Golgotha said:
Winston probably has to win it at this point. a) He's ridiculous. b) there's a feeling that, while they are a complete team, his general ridiculousness is what has tipped FSU over the top. c) it's probably the best first freshman QB season ever. d) He's ridiculous.

We can pretty much count Manziel out right now. He'll probably be in New York, but he won't win. A&M are slightly out of the limelight right now, and he's had a few picks recently whilst forcing things. A very solid argument can be made that he is the most valuable player to any one team, as A&M would be fucked without him with their defence, and FSU would be a good side anyway. But things don't really work that way. Hence, McCarron could pick up a third national title ring (fourth, if you count his redshirt season) but not get a Heisman, because Bama are wicked top to bottom. That said, at this point McCarron is probably Winston's biggest threat. There might well be a 'Jessica Lange' sentiment in the media, leading to him getting votes for his amazing cumulative sickness with Alabama, rather than this season in particular. But I doubt it.

The one possible spanner in the works is this sexual battery story about Winston, but I don't know how real that is yet or whether it'll get traction with voters. Depends on the coming media coverage, and whether Tallahassee PD directly contact Winston, I suppose.
Click to expand...


This seems pretty premature if you ask me, right now I can see a lot of voters being split between the two. It's really going to come down to these last two away games against Mizzou and LSU, if we win both, he's almost definitely going to win it, as we'll probably be in a BCS game as a result. A split is probably the most likely scenario though, but as long as Johnny isn't the main reason, he'll still be in the thick of things.

McCarron will probably get an invite, but he won't win it, after all it's not a lifetime achievement award. He would have to carry Alabama through the Iron Bowl and SEC Championship game, which is a big ask considering how their team is set up.

I did read something this week that surveyed 20 people with Heisman votes, and iirc 4 of them said the Sexual Assault thing would be a factor in their voting, and 1 said it would be a big issue, or something along those lines. 20% is a pretty high figure for something that's getting more attention than it should, so that could be a real issue, even if nothing comes of it.
 
Like I said, there's a very solid argument that Manziel is the most valuable player in FBS football to his team. In fact, there's little doubt. I mean, his numbers have been better than anyone's (although, given that Winston rarely plays more than three quarters - and only two against Syracuse on Saturday - the numbers are too soft to compare), and the two defeats, against very good SEC sides, were hardly his fault.

But Heisman voting is about momentum, and I think Winston is seen as the bright new thing. FSU aren't going to lose a game, so a national title game is guaranteed, and if it's against Alabama there will be weeks and weeks of Saban vs Fisher, McCarron vs Winston talk on the airwaves and in print. And nobody will be talking about Manziel because even if A&M get to the Sugar Bowl in front of Auburn, they'll probably be playing UCF, and who gives a shit about that?

The sexual battery story aside (and it's not as if Manziel hasn't had off-field problems - once Bushed, twice shy for Heisman voters perhaps), I'd be surprised if Winston didn't win at this point. I reckon most voters will have them one-two, overwhelmingly to Winston, and nobody else coming close. Sometimes someone comes out of the pack late, like RG3 did, but I don't see it happening. Bryce Petty perhaps has a slim chance, given Baylor's back-loaded schedule (given the computers have them at three, you wonder what would happen in the polls if they smash Texas and Okie State to bits like they did The Sooners and Texas Tech, but that's another issue), but even then I don't see it.

And, of course, a defeat in Baton Rouge would probably make the whole thing moot anyway.
 
Bookies not giving them much chance
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Show GraphDenver Broncos 11/4 11/4 5/2 5/2 5/2 13/5 11/4 5/2 5/2 11/4 5/2 11/4 5/2 13/5 5/2 5/2 17/5 123/35 122/35
Show GraphSeattle Seahawks 3 10/3 3 3 3 3 7/2 3 3 3 10/3 3 7/2 3 13/4 3 17/5 123/35 122/35
Show GraphNew Orleans Saints 13/2 7 13/2 13/2 13/2 13/2 11/2 6 6 6 13/2 13/2 6 13/2 13/2 6 36/5 65/9 140/19
Show GraphNew England Patriots 15/2 8 8 15/2 8 9 17/2 17/2 15/2 8 8 8 8 8 7 15/2 19/2 10 51/5
Show GraphCarolina Panthers 14 14 12 14 14 14 10 12 14 14 14 14 14 14 14 14 29/2 161/10 31/2
Show GraphSan Francisco 49ers 14 14 14 14 14 14 14 14 14 14 12 14 11 14 14 14 31/2 161/10 33/2
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Show GraphIndianapolis Colts 20 18 20 18 18 18 16 18 17 20 18 20 20 18 18 17 22 23 23
Show GraphDetroit Lions 33 33 33 33 33 33 20 28 34 33 28 33 25 33 33 34 34 37 37
Show GraphGreen Bay Packers 35 33 33 33 33 33 40 40 34 40 33 33 20 40 33 34 33 39 36
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Show GraphSan Diego Chargers 200 150 150 150 150 150 150 150 149 150 150 200 100 150 200 149 147 180 183
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Show GraphWashington Redskins 400 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 399 500 400 500 150 500 400 399 384 531 542
Show GraphSt Louis Rams 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 499 500 500 500 500 500 499 759 775
Show GraphOakland Raiders 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 750 499 500 500 500 500 500 499 778 794
Show GraphBuffalo Bills 500 1000 500 500 500 500 500 750 499 500 750 1000 600 500 499 419 569 581
Show GraphAtlanta Falcons 1000 750 1000 1000 1000 500 1000 1000 1000 1000 1000 949 969
Show GraphHouston Texans 500 500 500 500 500 500 1000 499 500 1000 250 600 500 499 949 969
Show GraphMinnesota Vikings 1000 750 1000 1000 1000 500 1000 1000 1000 1000 1000 949 969
Show GraphTampa Bay Buccaneers 4000 3000 5000 5000 500 3000 5000 3000 4000 949 969
Show GraphJacksonville Jaguars 7500 5000 5000 5000 500 7500 5000 5000 5000 949 969
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Must say those odds are a bit of an insult to the Cardinals.
If they beat the Colts in the desert next week I can see them shorten in odds significantly.
I know they have fuck all chance of winning it but 125-1 is fucking huge.
 
MC Golgotha said:
Like I said, there's a very solid argument that Manziel is the most valuable player in FBS football to his team. In fact, there's little doubt. I mean, his numbers have been better than anyone's (although, given that Winston rarely plays more than three quarters - and only two against Syracuse on Saturday - the numbers are too soft to compare), and the two defeats, against very good SEC sides, were hardly his fault.

But Heisman voting is about momentum, and I think Winston is seen as the bright new thing. FSU aren't going to lose a game, so a national title game is guaranteed, and if it's against Alabama there will be weeks and weeks of Saban vs Fisher, McCarron vs Winston talk on the airwaves and in print. And nobody will be talking about Manziel because even if A&M get to the Sugar Bowl in front of Auburn, they'll probably be playing UCF, and who gives a shit about that?

The sexual battery story aside (and it's not as if Manziel hasn't had off-field problems - once Bushed, twice shy for Heisman voters perhaps), I'd be surprised if Winston didn't win at this point. I reckon most voters will have them one-two, overwhelmingly to Winston, and nobody else coming close. Sometimes someone comes out of the pack late, like RG3 did, but I don't see it happening. Bryce Petty perhaps has a slim chance, given Baylor's back-loaded schedule (given the computers have them at three, you wonder what would happen in the polls if they smash Texas and Okie State to bits like they did The Sooners and Texas Tech, but that's another issue), but even then I don't see it.

And, of course, a defeat in Baton Rouge would probably make the whole thing moot anyway.
Click to expand...


Manziel's missed a fair number of plays as well, between injuries, that suspension, and blowouts, so I think that's a non-argument the entire way. And I think your argument about spotlights and momentum is a ton of hokum as well, after all we played in the Cotton Bowl last year when Manziel won it. When RG3 won the Heisman, they were a three loss team if memory serves, and played in the Alamo bowl. It's common knowledge that our losses haven't been due to a lack of offense, and even with those shortcomings, there's a good chance we'll still be in the BCS discussions, which is more than enough hype there.

I also think people are brushing off the Sexual Assault/Battery thing a bit too quickly. That's a lot more serious charge than all of what Manziel's been caught up in put together. You have to remember most of his off field issues were something like playing a round of golf at Pebble Beach, going to a UT Frat Party, and signing some autographs(something that's a bit of a joke of a rule anyways). Sexual Assault/Battery is significantly more serious, that's the sort of thing that really carries a stigma with it, be it true or otherwise. It's one of those things where if you've had a relative or friend affected by it, can carry a lot of strong emotion, irrational as it may be.

I also think the stats say a lot about Manziel's passing ability this season. He's completing 73% of his passes so far this season, the highest among any actual QB out there, and is simultaneously putting up outrageous yard totals. The rushing numbers are down this season, but it's absolutely justified by the growth of his passing game, there's been no drop in performance, just refinement. And I think if you throw in the SEC bias of being a higher quality conference, as well as the ACC bias for being a very shallow one, I can see this being a very tight race, provided Manziel performs against LSU and Mizzou.
 
I know nothing of college football and I thought 'Sexual Battery' was another nickname for Johnny Manziel until Whirly threw the Assualt in the middle when referring to it.
 
really interesting discussion on MNF between Young, Dilfer and Ray Lewis about the Ahmad Brooks hit on Brees. They're all saying it was a terrible call, and that the NFL won't change as it looks to protect the QB more and more.
 
Will Muschamp is having a pretty bad day. Could be a terminal one if Florida don't sort this 4th quarter out. You can't be losing to FCS sides.
 
Not sure how Muschamp walks away from that. It was almost as if they hadn't bothered scouting Georgia Southern. They run a Navy-style offence. They literally had zero passing yards, 0 for 3 attempts. But ran for over four bills. Gators looked like they weren't ready for it, which is embarrassing. The injuries are a factor in this being a bad season, but there's something else wrong to make it the worst Gators' season in my lifetime.

His first season they had a four game losing streak. All against ranked sides, but they lost to every ranked side they played that year. Last year they looked alright. They weren't exciting, but they were solid and beat some good teams - LSU, Gamecocks, FSU, Then lost to Louisville in the Sugar Bowl. This season has been a shocker though. The offensive injuries mean their defence can't stay off the park, which is obviously hurting them. Six starters out for the season (including the QB), nine who've missed games overall, something like 20 scholarship players who've missed games. Puts the AD in a difficult position - can he say that it's all down to the injuries and give Muschamp another chance? Muschamp is 13-11 in SEC play in his three years. Vandy are 11-13 and nobody expects shit from them. SC are 18-6.

At the very least he has to jettison his offensive coaches and totally rethink what he's doing there. He's a defensively oriented coach, but he might need to think about running the spread going the other way. Something to shake shit up. I loved what Brent Pease did at Boise, but this isn't working at all.
 
Going to Florida-Florida State on Saturday. Tailgating, the works. The wife doesn't have a fucking clue what it's all about, but I've assured her it'll be the show.
 
It's difficult to foresee anything other than a violently hard arse-fucking for Florida, but somewhere in the back of my mind a little voice is saying the Gators are going to salvage some pride from a historically awful campaign by royally and hilariously fucking up FSU's national title hopes. Although that would bring about the horrifying prospect of OSU in the big game, which I really couldn't abide.

Imagine the absolute carnage if Sparty beat OSU, the Gators beat FSU, and Auburn win the Iron Bowl. Let's hear it for a Cardinal-Cowboys national title game!
 
So tell me about this Gators coach MC. Every Florida fan I speak to cannot stand this dude.
 
That's the Muschamp fella I was on about a few posts ago. He hasn't been the luckiest dude. He came in after the Meyer/Tebow era, so you can only go down from there. Had an iffy first season, a pretty good second season (although results were better than performances and they were massively over ranked. Louisville beat them in a BCS bowl). And now a disastrous injury-and-shitness plagued campaign, capped off by losing to a second tier outfit on Saturday. They've never really got an offence going under him, no sort of identity at all. The philosophy has been let the defence (usually very good) handle their business and we'll flid our way to something on offence. They went full flid this season though.

He was the defensive co-ordinator at UT, and was seen as being groomed to take over from Mack Brown eventually. Then the Florida job came up. His OC at Florida used to run a trickeration machine in Boise. Obviously, you can't do that in the SEC, and his schemes probably suit a mid-major program better.

If they get beaten badly by FSU, he'll probably be sacked. If he pulls off an insane upset, he might stay. If they lose by a respectable amount, it'll be up in the air. He can cite apocalyptic injury lists and bin off his coaches and start again. The fans never really took to him from day one though, so I'd probably sack him. It's hard to see what identity he's putting on the program.

Could be some big jobs up this close season. USC, Florida, Texas maybe. Brady Hoke isn't pulling up trees in Michigan. Not sure how long Bo Pellini can hang on in Nebraska.
 
Thanks, interesting. Every Gator fan I speak/listen to can't stand him, so I guess it's kinda inevitable.

Watched the Wisconsin game on Saturday, Melvin Gordon(?) looks a talent.
 
Wisconsin's run game is ridiculous. They have two 1200 yard rushers in Gordon and James White. Something like 25 TDs between them. Penn state go to Madison on Saturday and they're going to get destroyed.

Gordon redshirted, so he can declare for the draft next year if he wants. Still looks a little bit small for his height to me. Maybe he'll stay a year and put some beef on. If people start talking to him about late first round picks though, he'll probably be off.
 
Unbelievable ending to the Alabama Auburn game

Game tied at 28-28 with 1 second to go. Bama try a 57 yard field goal.

Misses. Chris Davis with a 100-yd return on the missed field goal.

Auburn win 34-28.

The entire crowd is on the field.
 
That was fucking sick. The total magnitude of the last ten seconds of Auburn's last two games is unquantifiable. Just the most ridiculous shit that has happened in football.

Michigan State better beat OSU, because if the national title game.isn't FSU vs Auburn, then someone needs to die.
 
Fuck me that was just staggering. Stood in a bar in Miami watching it and every cunt in the place, even people out on the streets, just going off watching it. Imagine being in Auburn right now. Or Alabama. Ha! Insane.
 
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