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Missing out on young British players?

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Modo

Modo

A contentious scando
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Why are we always missing out on young talented British players?
I remember that we used to discuss buying Joe Cole and Michael Carrick during their West Ham days on Koptalk. But that never happened and it doesn't stop there.

The list is long:

Michael Dawson, Nottingham
Aaron Lennon, Leeds
Gareth Bale, Southampton
Theo Walcott, Southampton
Aaron Ramsey, Cardiff
Adam Johnson, Middlesbrough
Billy Jones, Crew Alexandra (We still have a chance)
etc

What's the point, you might ask? Well the point is that we knew that they were good players, hell even the football manager game had them as wonder kids.

How did these scouting reports fail to land on our managers desk?

Is the plan to let them develop in a another club and later on spend £20M on them?
 
Because our transfer negotiators are f'ing shit.

Mid-table clubs in Spain, Germany, Italy have better negotiators than us.
 
Will be interesting to see if West Brom can keep hold of Dorrans now they are going up. Hes had a superb season.

Why you put Billy Jones in the list?
 
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=39895.msg1091422#msg1091422 date=1271926893]
Why are we always missing out on young talented British players?
I remember that we used to discuss buying Joe Cole and Michael Carrick during their West Ham days on Koptalk. But that never happened and it doesn't stop there.

The list is long:

Michael Dawson, Nottingham
Aaron Lennon, Leeds
Gareth Bale, Southampton
Theo Walcott, Southampton
Aaron Ramsey, Cardiff
Adam Johnson, Middlesbrough
Billy Jones, Crew Alexandra (We still have a chance)
etc

What's the point, you might ask? Well the point is that we knew that they were good players, hell even the football manager game had them as wonder kids.

How did these scouting reports fail to land on our managers desk?

Is the plan to let them develop in a another club and later on spend £20M on them?
[/quote]

We've been in for lots of these kids, but have been outbid or the player has chosen to go elsewhere.
 
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=39895.msg1091426#msg1091426 date=1271927452]
Will be interesting to see if West Brom can keep hold of Dorrans now they are going up. Hes had a superb season.

Why you put Billy Jones in the list?
[/quote]

If I remember it correctly he was regarded as one of the best youth players in the country.
We had some threads about him at koptalk, considering our co-op with Crewe (you know Rob Jones, Murphy etc). He's currently at Preston.
Football Manager wonder kid.
 
For a combined fee of about £2.5m we could sign David Goodwillie (Dundee United), Charlie Austin (Swindon) and Ashley Westwood (Crewe). All 3 of these could one day be good enough for a top 4 team and Goodwillie & Austin would already make good substitute options.

I advocated signing Dawson when he first broke into the Forest team and suggested Joe Hart when he was at Shrewsbury. There is some great talent in the lower divisions but you have to get them early (i.e. take a risk). The upside is that players such as Goodwillie and Austin, if they don't make the grade with us, can be sold a year or two later for about the same as we pay for them.

I'd much rather take a chance with youngsters in the British leagues than more unknown Argentinians.
 
because we haven't wrapped up the deals fast enough and other clubs have moved in. parry was fucking SHIT and before anyone mentions rafa is in charge now, that was only the case THIS season.
 
You're only mentioning the successful ones though. We did sign the likes of Jack Hobbs and Paul Anderson, who were highly rated and quite expensive for their age. They just didn't work out. Similarly, we've been linked to young players like Giles Barnes, who were widely expected to be big stars and have turned out not to be at all. So we miss out on some, and dodge other bullets. There's no surefire system for signing the best young British players. The reason Spurs and Villa have got so many is simply that they've paid a lot of money for a lot of players - and everyone remembers the ones that work out, and forget those that don't.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39895.msg1091436#msg1091436 date=1271928690]
You're only mentioning the successful ones though. We did sign the likes of Jack Hobbs and Paul Anderson, who were highly rated and quite expensive for their age. They just didn't work out. Similarly, we've been linked to young players like Giles Barnes, who were widely expected to be big stars and have turned out not to be at all. So we miss out on some, and dodge other bullets. There's no surefire system for signing the best young British players. The reason Spurs and Villa have got so many is simply that they've paid a lot of money for a lot of players - and everyone remembers the ones that work out, and forget those that don't.

[/quote]

You have a point. But I wouldn't compare Hobbs and Anderson with the players I listed.
Hobbs and Anderson didn't play regularly for their respective clubs first teams. However they're doing quite well now in Leicester and Nottingham.
I still think Giles Barnes would have been great but he's had problems with injuries.
I can also list a bunch of player we bought from foreign clubs that didn't pan out. We could of used that money to buy domestic players.
Thanks to Rafa the academy and our reserves are much better today. Some of our British players look the part, especially Kelly.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39895.msg1091436#msg1091436 date=1271928690]
You're only mentioning the successful ones though. We did sign the likes of Jack Hobbs and Paul Anderson, who were highly rated and quite expensive for their age. They just didn't work out. Similarly, we've been linked to young players like Giles Barnes, who were widely expected to be big stars and have turned out not to be at all. So we miss out on some, and dodge other bullets. There's no surefire system for signing the best young British players. The reason Spurs and Villa have got so many is simply that they've paid a lot of money for a lot of players - and everyone remembers the ones that work out, and forget those that don't.

[/quote]

So, summing up, we miss out on some that don't make it, sign some that don't make it, and never sign any that do make it.

Aces.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39895.msg1091436#msg1091436 date=1271928690]
You're only mentioning the successful ones though. We did sign the likes of Jack Hobbs and Paul Anderson, who were highly rated and quite expensive for their age. They just didn't work out. Similarly, we've been linked to young players like Giles Barnes, who were widely expected to be big stars and have turned out not to be at all. So we miss out on some, and dodge other bullets. There's no surefire system for signing the best young British players. The reason Spurs and Villa have got so many is simply that they've paid a lot of money for a lot of players - and everyone remembers the ones that work out, and forget those that don't.

[/quote]

Most leicester fans seem to think Hobbs is Premier league quality. He was never given a chance at LFC, he should have been loaned out for a season to Leicester and then a season to a lower level EPL team to see if he progressed. We gave him away for free but I reckon Leicester will get a fee of £2m+ for him if they decide to sell. I THINK we have a sell on clause though so we'd probably get 25% of that which covers our original outlay.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=39895.msg1091445#msg1091445 date=1271929794]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39895.msg1091436#msg1091436 date=1271928690]
You're only mentioning the successful ones though. We did sign the likes of Jack Hobbs and Paul Anderson, who were highly rated and quite expensive for their age. They just didn't work out. Similarly, we've been linked to young players like Giles Barnes, who were widely expected to be big stars and have turned out not to be at all. So we miss out on some, and dodge other bullets. There's no surefire system for signing the best young British players. The reason Spurs and Villa have got so many is simply that they've paid a lot of money for a lot of players - and everyone remembers the ones that work out, and forget those that don't.

[/quote]

Most leicester fans seem to think Hobbs is Premier league quality. He was never given a chance at LFC, he should have been loaned out for a season to Leicester and then a season to a lower level EPL team to see if he progressed. We gave him away for free but I reckon Leicester will get a fee of £2m+ for him if they decide to sell. I THINK we have a sell on clause though so we'd probably get 25% of that which covers our original outlay.
[/quote]

Not being willing to give young players a chance is, of course, the other obvious problem with buying them in the first place. Although Wash and Insua have certainly played lots of games this season. Neither is British, but who cares? The point really is that neither is good enough.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=39895.msg1091445#msg1091445 date=1271929794]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39895.msg1091436#msg1091436 date=1271928690]
You're only mentioning the successful ones though. We did sign the likes of Jack Hobbs and Paul Anderson, who were highly rated and quite expensive for their age. They just didn't work out. Similarly, we've been linked to young players like Giles Barnes, who were widely expected to be big stars and have turned out not to be at all. So we miss out on some, and dodge other bullets. There's no surefire system for signing the best young British players. The reason Spurs and Villa have got so many is simply that they've paid a lot of money for a lot of players - and everyone remembers the ones that work out, and forget those that don't.

[/quote]

Most leicester fans seem to think Hobbs is Premier league quality. He was never given a chance at LFC, he should have been loaned out for a season to Leicester and then a season to a lower level EPL team to see if he progressed. We gave him away for free but I reckon Leicester will get a fee of £2m+ for him if they decide to sell. I THINK we have a sell on clause though so we'd probably get 25% of that which covers our original outlay.
[/quote]

Leicester fans are deluded.. Im sure most would say that Fryatt should be considered for England.
 
I remember Rebel was a huge fan of Adam Johnson.

I am surprised other clubs didn't get involved in Johnson's signature. He seemed to move to City without any hassle or drama. Presume City were willing to out bid anyone if it came to it anyway.
Seems a fine player now, pacy, tricky and left footed. Would have been nice addition for us. Suprise call up for the World Cup?
 
Apperantly we're after Wayne Hennessy to be Reinas nr 2.

I've always liked him, and think he could develop into a good gk.
 
Rebel always pointed out Johnson was the better winger whenever we were linked to Stewart Downing

Dorrans is ace by the way, best player in the championship.
 
Dawson has had 1 good season, this one. Other than that he's been very ordinary. No ta!
 
I know the Dawson brothers. We were watching him during Houllier's years but i don't think any offer was ever tabled.

As for Hennessy i know we had him watched last season because i was sat next to Reina's keeper coach at a game last season. He studied the warm up, watched him for 80 mins and then cleared off home.
 
[quote author=vikas link=topic=39895.msg1091552#msg1091552 date=1271941299]
Dawson?!?

He really isn't that good.
[/quote]

He cost £4m, he is probably going to the world cup, he has served Spurs well for 4 seasons and at 26 has plenty left to give. That represents very good value.
 
We were also linked with Tonge and Brown for a while and got criticised at the time for not going for them..

Hmmm...
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39895.msg1091577#msg1091577 date=1271943445]
We were also linked with Tonge and Brown for a while and got criticised at the time for not going for them..

Hmmm...
[/quote]

But for every Tonge Mark there is a Jagielka and for every Brown there is a Cahill. In recent years Everton have "nicked" Jagielka, Cahill and Lescott from the Championship with great reward - it can be done.
 
It can, but a lot depends on the manager and scouts spotting the talent.

Our record isnt so good. 🙁
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=39895.msg1091580#msg1091580 date=1271943737]
But for every Tonge Mark there is a Jagielka and for every Brown there is a Cahill. In recent years Everton have "nicked" Jagielka, Cahill and Lescott from the Championship with great reward - it can be done.
[/quote]

It can but those players are under less pressure to perform week to week and are given a lot more time to develop at smaller clubs like Everton. Aaron Lennon has developed into one of the better wingers in the Premiership but Spurs had to put up with a couple of years of inconsistent performances from him but are now reaping the rewards. If we had of signed him back then I don't think we could have brought him along the way Spurs have, he'd probably be another Babel story.
 
I'd rather be shit and British than shit and Spanish/Argie/French which is what we always are.

We need a Manager who knows the Prem. Not a fucking Euro peado genius. Is it me or are you all fucks?
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39895.msg1091592#msg1091592 date=1271944980]

Is it me or are you all fucks?


[/quote]

It's you.
 
we really missed outs on players from the west ham team that got relegated way back

if the current west ham team go down will we miss out again - is there anyone good enough? parker, noble, collison, cole?
 
[quote author=Markeh link=topic=39895.msg1091599#msg1091599 date=1271945475]
we really missed outs on players from the west ham team that got relegated way back

if the current west ham team go down will we miss out again - is there anyone good enough? parker, noble, collison, cole?
[/quote]

Parker is nearly 30 but wouldn't be a bad addition to the squad. Noble is the pick of the younger players.
 
[quote author=Markeh link=topic=39895.msg1091599#msg1091599 date=1271945475]
we really missed outs on players from the west ham team that got relegated way back

if the current west ham team go down will we miss out again - is there anyone good enough? parker, noble, collison, cole?
[/quote]

I've been talking about Collison for a while now, Paddy too iirc.
He looks quality.
 
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