Mane's form, again
- Thread starter rurikbird
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When you see arguments breaking out over a player among posters who normally don't argue and are fairly reasonable on LFC related matters, it is kind of a sign it is no longer a temporary loss of form. We cannot carry both Mane and Firmino in their current form. Both of their contracts end at the same time I believe. Both of them are on 170K-200K per week contract. No way we can extend those unless they are willing to take salary cuts.
Also want to echo what you posted. The man is a legend, on par with our greats. I think almost everyone on this board acknowledges that.
I agree with everything you and others on the site have said, including that we probably cannot accommodate two declining, rather than merely out of form, attackers. But it makes me sad to say so, and also slightly fearful because it is a reminder that we have probably already seen the peak of this wonderful team.
It is saddening but at the same time it’s been coming, we’ve seen it coming for a number of months and it’s not fair of us to ask anymore from them.
The biggest killer would be not addressing the problem in summer, for me Mane is done as a regular and from next season needs to take of Milner on the bench.
The biggest killer would be not addressing the problem in summer, for me Mane is done as a regular and from next season needs to take of Milner on the bench.
At one point I thought Mané was more important than Salah.
It honestly makes me a bit sad watching that.
But, I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet.
Mane is an incredible player and we've seen the very best of his years. What is sad about that? Or, if it is sad, it's the sad we want.
Boils down to this - we need to refresh key elements of the team. The way in which our owners, for right or for wrong, donthis is by selling players that will maximise return to re-invest.
There are not many players that will return enough for us to fund a rebuild and very few teams with the money to spend big on players approaching 30.
We need at least 2 players imho - a midfielder and a forward.
We have room within the current squad for one non-homegrown player (by de-registering Karius) and have one homegrown slot spare.
Unless we find someone that on a free, or very undervalued because their close to end of contract, or a Robbo type signing that’s somehow flown under the radar of everyone, or a kid that’ll rapidly improve in record time, then someone of value will have to be sacrificed.
Even selling Mane might not be enough - we’d need two forwards then - unless we get a massive crazy offer from someone like Newcastle!!!
This is our problem - Mane is too good to sell yet not good enough to be overvalued.
Part of me thinks we should keep him - despite his diminished performances, but we can’t if we have any hope of signing a Bellingham - we’ll need the cash.
Well, it depends what we can get for him. The other part is, he can definitely get worse, particularly off the ball. Thats where he's been an ungodly figure for us, a forward of the best quality, but also willing to defend to a degree I've never seen. That was the key to our system, and we've had to move away from that for all sorts of reasons, but over time the balance of what he and Salah can do for us on the ball will get worse and worse relative to how they expose us off it. When mane doesn't do anything with good situations, it's bad, but it'll get worse and worse each season even if he finds some form or it doesn't further fall off a cliff.
I think he's just done.. he's just a little slower to do absolutely everything and it's fucking with his head. I think the problem is that it's just completely obvious to everybody. I don't see us getting a lot for him.
If I thought we'd definitely buy well, I'd rip off the bandage and sell Salah and mane. I think if not for coronavirus and some bad luck this team deserved a bit more from its peak, but with the world being unfair and shit, I don't see us being more than a cup team without some serious rebuilding. That's what klopp stayed on to do, so I don't think he'll kick it down the road.
Too many players getting too old too fast. FSG need to start splashing some cash because we need to rebuild before we lose our greatest assett... Klopp
If we can get Decent money for Mane, The Ox, Gomez and Origi It would be a very good start... Lets hope Newcastle can stay up 😀
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Mane's form has dipped. Think that's common knowledge despite the usual suspects claiming exclusivity. He prefers playing down the right but probably wouldn't make much difference where he played. Tester for Klopp. His hands have been tied to a degree by the lack of funds. Not having a pop at Konate but that money would've better spent on goal threat. We now have an embarrassment of richers defensively and a dearth of richers attack wise
Yep you're right and it's been said before (by me and others) - the problem with this team is all on FSG. It's fucking criminal how little they've spent on the team since it became clear that we were an elite team in world football (from ~ 2017 onwards). At that point in time we had better income from sponsors and winnings, and were more attractive to world class players than we had been for 30 years. It's bordering on fucking insanity that we did not take that opportunity to strengthen - to reward us the fans for our patience, and Klopp for building a team that could win essentially by just selling some of the better assets that we already had.
If the information in this link: (PL Teams Net Spend Last 5 Seasons) is accurate, we have been outspent over the last 5 years by every team currently in the premier league except Burnley, Crystal Palace, Southampton, Sheffield United and Norwich. One of those five teams was relegated. Two of those five teams are currently in the relegation zone. The other two are in the bottom half of the table.
And again, we have some of the highest income from sponsorships and largest winnings in all of world football. That's un-fucking-believable. A massive feather in Klopp's cap. A Massive fuck off for FSG.
If Mane had some serious competition, he could be rested more, and would be more driven during the games he played. I'm sorry for Mane that our owners were not the cunts that they are.
Yeah, but isn’t it a little bit more nuanced than simple net transfer spend?
We’ve invested a lot into higher salaries and re-signing our best players on improved contracts, we’ve been one of the hardest highest spenders on agents fees, and we’ve made significant investment in stadium and training facilities.
@Beamrider is the expert on this.
I do agree that we need to invest in the team, but I don’t think we’re at panic buying levels.
Theres a lot of nonsense being spouted - a few posts up is suggesting we have a “dearth” in attacking talent...
75 goals in 28 matches this season would suggest otherwise.
A dearth underneath the top 3 (I know Firmino no longer ahead of Jota) who are all out of contract soon.
It is very worrying, along with the midfield which is always a worry...
It’s not worrying - we’re outscoring everyone, including City and Chelsea who have spent gazillions.
Don’t be a hysterical fanny... we’re not Everton - scoring is not our problem.
And just how many of those 75 goals been scored by Mo Salah? (rhetorical question)
You say "but I don’t think we’re at panic buying levels." but it only takes one tackle, a hamstring injury and the drop off in goals would be epic, especially with the way that Mane and Frimino is playing or not playing.Couple of three seasons back Mane goal scoring was on par with Salah with Firmino chipping in a good few as well. That was then.
Look how we were effected losing our CB and have to play our midfield as standing CB, Even with the likes of Salah, Mane, Frimino we were struggling to win games...
Thing is we will lose Mane,Salah and Keita to the AFCON and yes it may not effect us in the PL as much (Due to the fixtures),But... they can still be injuried at the AFCON and managers at tournaments are less likly to protect a player and take more chances with them than a PL manager and that were it would hurt us.Those PL games to come after the AFCON
The way I see it is that we will have Jota,Frimino,Minamino,Origi, maybe Jones, Elliot, and the Ox as our forward line. Injury wise the Ox is not the most reliable, Origi not that far behind, with both Jones and Elliot coming back off of injuries themselves.
Should we Lose Salah to an injury either during the AFCON or in the PL the goals will dry up, and it would not be hard to see us falling out of the top 4
"but I don’t think we’re at panic buying levels."
Ok.. you’re being a hysterical fanny.
Remember that time we were 3-0 to Barca with all our best attacking players out?
We have a great team and a great squad - amongst the best ever in terms of the results they’ve achieved. The only problem we have is Man City - they’re like a fucking Terminator - and WE DON’T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO WIN CONSTANTLY.
No amount of pretence that we can sell Ox and Joe Gomez and therefore sign the best players in they world or a belief that we could replace a Champions League & Premier League winning captain with a 23 yo midfielder with 9 Premier League games to his name is going to change that.
We won’t win the league - We’re unlikely to win the Champions League - but that doesn’t mean we’re shit.
Panic is a strong word. I wouldn't say some of us are panicking but we are a bit nervous about the future of this squad. We have postponed squad refreshment year after year and this summer we might have to take strong decisions - either invest or let this squad gently peter out.
A lot of it is coming from a sense of disappointment that this squad has underachieved. This squad deserves another CL and PL win. We could have achieved that with a little bit more padding - a central defender the beginning of previous season, another attacker, a midfielder to replace Gini. If this was a squad which was struggling to achieve fourth, I personally wouldn't have been disappointed that FSG didn't overextend during trying times. If there was ever a time to overextend, it was the last two years especially since borrowing money has been so easy the last few years. Also, fairly confident Henry and co made a killing in the stock market over the last year.
At the same time at the time of G and H, I wanted owners who invested back the money made back into the club. Which I am sure FSG have done. So I do recognize there is a certain degree of hypocrisy there on my part.
Our numbers look amazing - 75 goals and all. But all that will ensure is we are the greatest second placed PL team of all time. Which we could have potentially rectified by stretching ourselves financially a bit more. I understand why FSG did not stretch but at the same time can't help feel a bit disappointed. Part of it also is that we had the perfect storm - Klopp plus Edwards plus scouts our success rate on signings. If this level of financial doping continues, we might not get this chance again and I wouldn't blame FSG for that.
By the way, I also know FSG are no mugs. The work they did with Red Sox will ensure their place in sports history. Also, the evidence was in front of us. They were never the type to win a championship and then invest a bit more to stretch that championship run. Win once, dismantle and build a new great team was more their style. Not sure if that will work in England. If we dont win anything this season, and our wage bill is getting a bit large, might be better then to sell Firmino and Mane and focus on building the next team before Klopp leaves.
Of course there is nuance - but the point remains, right? We didn't need to go out and get Messi. Just some investment to give us better players pushing the first team in the right places, so that when we had injuries, or needed to rest players because of fixture pile-ups, or international tournaments, we would be still firing on all cylinders.
Look the sky isn't falling, but it's just stupid what FSG are doing to this team. It deserves better.
Much more eloquently put than I @peekay
No one is say we have to sign the best players in the world (would be nice) Just a decent striker, because beside a odd goal here and there ;Origi is not that, nor The Ox, nor anyone else. Fuck Me beside his age and injury record I would take a Danny Ings, someone who can find the net regularly.
Alot has changed since that Barca game
"No amount of pretence that we can sell Ox and Joe Gomez and therefore sign the best players in they world or a belief that we could replace a Champions League & Premier League winning captain with a 23 yo midfielder with 9 Premier League games to his name is going to change that."
Let me answer that one like this...
If selling the The Ox,Gomez and Origi raises half the money for the player you want, Let's say that player is £100m... FSG would be more likely to front up the other £50m than they would the full £100m. But who is to say we could not find another Suárez for that money. in some of the smaller leagues around Europe
Plus Ousmane Dembele His contract is set to expire in the summer of 2022
You're missing the point. Whilst it would be good to have some more back up now, we're more concerned with 18months time, as there continues to be a lack of planning for the future.
I’m not missing the point, I totally get it.
However it’s not getting addressed this January and the only way it’s likely to be addressed is by selling one of our better players.
How do you know there’s a lack of planning?
It all boils down to this - whatever the plan is - it doesn’t involve the owners chucking their own money at us, or racking up debt like Utd.
In that sense, the plan is the same as the one that turned us from garbage to one of the top teams in the world - which presumably means buying the right players when they’re available for the money we have allocated for transfers.
If the plan is to sign Kessie (rumours we’ve made an offer) on a free in the summer, sell Mane plus a few other fringe players and use that to buy Raphina and someone else, while retaining a large part of the current squad and extending Salah & Firmino’s contracts - then I’m ok with that.
The plan was for Thiago and Keita not to be a waste of space. Add Ox to that. £120 million and half a mill a week on that shit. Can’t say we’ve not tried to refresh the squad looking at those disasters. All big ticket signings. All shit.
What has Jamie Redknapp, Daniel Sturridge, Divok Origi and Sadio Mané have in common...?
They all played and scored for Liverpool
https://www.goal.com/en-ng/news/he-needs-to-be-phased-out-fans-react-to-mane-s-goal-drought
[article]Sadio Mane has now gone nine games without a goal or an assist for Liverpool this season, reminiscent of his poor 2020/21 run of form as Liverpool lost out on the Premier League title.[/article]
(Without penalties)
[article]Sadio Mane has now gone nine games without a goal or an assist for Liverpool this season, reminiscent of his poor 2020/21 run of form as Liverpool lost out on the Premier League title.[/article]
(Without penalties)
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