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Manager faces up to Anfield’s age of austerity

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Gary25

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http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/...cle3526630.ece

Tony Barrett

“At a football club, there’s a holy trinity — the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques.” - Bill Shankly.

On what would have been Bill Shankly’s 99th birthday, Brendan Rodgers faced up to the new reality of being Liverpool manager. The club’s directors may still be there to sign the cheques but only if potential signings fit in with their own long-term strategy and age profile, a lesson that Rodgers learnt to his cost on transfer deadline day.

Had Rodgers got his way on Friday, Clint Dempsey would have been in his starting line-up for the visit of Arsenal to Anfield. As it was, the loss of an internal power struggle with Fenway Sports Group, the Liverpool owners, meant that the United States player went to Tottenham Hotspur, leaving Rodgers able to call upon only Luis Suárez and Fabio Borini as senior attackers from now until January.

With the exception of Suárez and Steven Gerrard, Liverpool’s new-look midfield and forward line did not feature a single player who had scored a goal for the club before kick-off yesterday, a statistic that remained unaltered after the final whistle. On the substitutes’ bench, there was not a single forward. Stewart Downing — he of no league goals nor assists last season — was the only recognised attacking player and Rodgers has spent the opening weeks of the new season trying to convert the fitful winger into a left back.

Last weekend, when Manchester City were the visiting team, Rodgers could at least summon Andy Carroll from the bench and the forward came within a Jack Rodwell goalline clearance of winning the game. By then, though, Rodgers had long since deemed Carroll surplus to requirements and the decision to exile the 23-year-old on Thursday was a calculated gamble predicated on the idea that the paucity of attacking options left available to him would compel FSG to grant him his wish to sign Dempsey.

The inherent risk was that FSG would not back down on its belief that 29-year-olds, even ones who scored 22 goals last season, are not the future of the club. Note to Anfield: Robin van Persie is also 29. The Boston-based investment group sanctioned an offer for Dempsey but it was a half-hearted attempt with sources at the London club insisting that the bid was £3 million, although Liverpool dispute this version of events.

FSG had been willing to approve the recruitment of Daniel Sturridge, six years Dempsey’s junior, from Chelsea on loan with a view to a permanent transfer but Rodgers had been less keen. It came down to a battle of wills and Rodgers lost as his employers favoured their own philosophy and transfer strategy over their manager’s judgment. Yesterday Arsenal took advantage but it is hard to imagine, given Liverpool’s chronic lack of firepower, that Arsène Wenger’s side will be the last side to do so.

Rodgers now has a squad that is not fit for purpose and in allowing that to happen, FSG has taken a gamble of its own by putting performance and points at risk for the sake of its principles. It had the opportunity to recruit a player with the potential to give Liverpool at least a degree of the cutting edge that they so clearly lack but preferred to adhere to its own beliefs. With each Premier League place worth about £750,000 in additional prize money there is also a financial element to the risk and a possibility that signing Dempsey, even for a £6 million fee, could have turned out to be cost effective .

As the club that perhaps best captures the pre and post credit crunch era — bought on easy credit, taken to the brink of administration — there is something apt about Liverpool being at the heart of a debate about whether they should continue with austerity measures or spend their way out of the trouble that they find themselves in. But with three games of the season gone Liverpool have scored only two goals and neither came from open play.

Tom Werner, their chairman, claimed earlier this year that the club has “the resources to compete with anyone in football”. On the evidence of a summer in which too few cheques have been signed for Rodgers’s liking and one of his key transfer targets has been missed, that already seems little more than a fanciful boast.
 
Speculate to accumulate. They should have backed their new manager but they never. The way they are going, our value is going to drop with more and more of our better players leaving.
 
Speculate to accumulate. They should have backed their new manager but they never. The way they are going, our value is going to drop with more and more of our better players leaving.

there is a big problem here - in that:-

1) Rogers must be pissed at them for this and unless he thought £6M was too much I cannot see how his relationship with FSG can be a good one right now. I just hope he does not try screwing with them by playing players out of position so that they don't score just to prove a point to FSG.

2) As the article highlights - Man United saw fit to spend 20M+ on a 29 year old goal scorer, and he is delivering very well right now. I admire the fact that FSG have good principles and want to stick to them after the shambles of last season BUT sometimes they need to be advised better about football - 6M for Dempsey given his performances is a good price despite his age and provides you with the potential of scoring those goals.

3) Article highlights that other issue I keep worrying about - not scoring from open play in the league. Until I see us winning a game by doing just that, I think its going to be a very nervous season for all of us.
 
there is a big problem here - in that:-

1) Rogers must be pissed at them for this and unless he thought £6M was too much I cannot see how his relationship with FSG can be a good one right now. I just hope he does not try screwing with them by playing players out of position so that they don't score just to prove a point to FSG.
Would be really odd thing to do.

2) As the article highlights - Man United saw fit to spend 20M+ on a 29 year old goal scorer, and he is delivering very well right now. I admire the fact that FSG have good principles and want to stick to them after the shambles of last season BUT sometimes they need to be advised better about football - 6M for Dempsey given his performances is a good price despite his age and provides you with the potential of scoring those goals. Well said (on both points). I like owners with a firm plan for development - and I think these owners have. But this was stupid. Sometimes the older player is the short-term option - last year I saw that as Downing doing the job until Sterling was ready. Either way - and I know you don't agree - letting Carroll go is a huge disapppointment.

3) Article highlights that other issue I keep worrying about - not scoring from open play in the league. Until I see us winning a game by doing just that, I think its going to be a very nervous season for all of us.
Not nervous - little to worry about with such low expectations
 

On point (1) - I put that down because under Rafa we all saw some crazy shit, and we saw some crazy shit from Mancini last week according to the entire press who thought by having that strange lineup was a way to show the owners he needed certain signings. I am not saying he would go ahead and deliberately do that to lose a game, just saying creating a situation where players would struggle a little bit just to make a point to the owners. Hope not. People question what was Rafa doing signing Aquafanny with screwed up contract - well I think he was also hoping to bankrupt the then owners !!!
 
On point (1) - I put that down because under Rafa we all saw some crazy shit, and we saw some crazy shit from Mancini last week according to the entire press who thought by having that strange lineup was a way to show the owners he needed certain signings. I am not saying he would go ahead and deliberately do that to lose a game, just saying creating a situation where players would struggle a little bit just to make a point to the owners. Hope not. People question what was Rafa doing signing Aquafanny with screwed up contract - well I think he was also hoping to bankrupt the then owners !!!
Please tell me you're not being serious?
 
Red Mullet on this matter - I am just speculating on the behaviour of managers when put into a corner. They can do anything they want to the point of almost relegating the club and the club being forced to sack them and pay them off too. I believe it happens in the game more often than not.
 
Speculate to accumulate. They should have backed their new manager but they never. The way they are going, our value is going to drop with more and more of our better players leaving.

... And when has that worked for us? Last year when we spent stacks or when our last owners had us a whisker away from administration.

There is another way - its about making the best use of available resources and adding to them when you can.
 
Speculate to accumulate.

He was backed to the tune of 20M. Speculation has seen us hemmorage unconscionable amounts of money on players, these are losses we've been realizing over the last many transfer seasons. Carroll, Aquilani, etc.

Then there's the losses we can't even get rid of and are still bleeding us, like Cole.

Then there's the losses realized every time we field a team that is below what we need it to be, like Henderson, Downing, etc. Players that if they were actually worth what we spent on them, would see us performing at a higher level.

Years and years of gross mismanagement have landed us where we are now, and the grossest waste of money we've ever seen at this club happened last year, which takes some doing. We don't have champions league money coming in, and we weren't likely to this season. We desperately needed to cut our wage bill, which swelled under our disastrous last owners, who at the end were trading astronomical wage payments in lieu of any cash up front.

You are right to criticize the idiotic decisions and appointments of FSG last season, Commoli was a disaster, and failed in his most important charge - to prevent any manager from making transfer decisions which represent horrific or incredibly risky investments. Strangely though, you want them to throw more money at the problem, when the cost of failure will only increase. What you want is either the idiotic cowboys you decry, or a sugar daddy owner who doesn't run the club like a business. I find both repugnant.

I also find incompetence repugnant, and that clearly hasn't been eradicated given the ending to the transfer season we just had, but the idea that Liverpool are now paupers because we are finally being responsible, or that the manager hasn't been backed because of a transfer fuck up initially of his own making is just not on for me. Nor is the idea that somehow if we had Clint Dempsey, or indeed any other 5 or 6M forward, that we'd be in a significantly different position than we are right now. The stupidity of us not having a backup comes into play if (more likely when) Suarez gets injured, and will be lessened if Borini was a good buy. Fingers crossed on both those counts, but we've got a long way to go.

I find it funny that you say that others should get their heads out of the sand, if you think that there's a 6M difference between us and a top 4 finish. We need to buy smart for some time to climb out of the hole that has been dug over the course of the last many years. Not only have we replaced truly our truly great players like Mascherano, Alonso, and Torres with utter shit, and spent more for less at every turn, even down to replacing players like Benayoun with Cole, the good players we have kept, by and large have degraded in quality. Buying smart doesn't start with a fucking bumper sticker.
 
I wouldn't go as far as Moron (obviously).
However, there is certainly an element of brinksmanship at play.

Rodgers thought if Dempsey was his only choice, FSG would have no choice.
FSG probably thought if they stuck to their guns. Rodgers would back down and get a younger alternative.
In the end, Carroll goes and there is no replacement.

Backing down is not something strong managers do. Wenger, Rafa etc have all had their little face-offs. I hope Rodgers realizes that the manager seldom wins in these scenarios.
 
Everyone knew Rodgers wanted Dempsey for months, so if the age thing was an issue, it would have been ironed out over the course of the transfer window, they wouldn't have gone to the last day and decided he didn't fit the profile. Cost wise they may have put a limitation on it, but they'd have known that already too. This hasn't been decided on the final day, this has been a culmination of a panic agreement over Carroll (again) and the limitations which that enforced. Ayre, the owners or whoever are to blame for letting the Carroll deal go to the wire and eventually taking a deal that was worse than we were offered originally.

As for Dempsey, he was never going to be in the starting lineup against Arsenal, he hasn't played a game in months.
 
Alan Hansern:
Rodgers has been badly let down by his bosses and, although I am a big fan of Michael Owen, the fact that the former Liverpool forward is now being considered as an option shows that the club are desperate for reinforcements.

Liverpool are desperate, but they only have themselves to blame because they got rid of a striker - a £35 million England international at that - and failed to replace him.

If that situation had not arisen, and Liverpool had been able to sign Dempsey from Fulham after loaning Carroll to West Ham, there is no way that Rodgers would now be considering going for a free agent like Owen.

The only reason it has become an option is because the club has done a bad job of its transfer business.

Similar suggestions that Didier Drogba might become an option due to uncertainty about his situation with the Chinese club Shanghai Shenhua also reflect badly on Liverpool’s owners.

If they decided against paying a transfer fee for Dempsey because he is 29, where is the sense in paying big money in wages for somebody like Drogba, who is 33?

If Drogba signs for two years and is paid £150,000 a week, that amounts to £15 million, so while you would take him in two seconds flat, it would not sit well the club’s philosophy under their American owners.

It is all very well having a philosophy, but one of the golden rules in football is that you don’t let somebody go until you have brought somebody else in.

Whether it was the right or wrong decision, Carroll was allowed to join West Ham last Thursday.

I would have kept him at Anfield because, after the injuries he suffered last season, he showed enough in the FA Cup final against Chelsea - and in the following midweek when he was unplayable against the same team - and against Sweden at Euro 2012, to suggest he was worth persevering with, if only because he offers variety and a different option.

But having let him go, Brendan Rodgers would have known that Dempsey wanted to move to Anfield, yet the owners let him down by not coming up with the money.

I’m not sure it is something that can be put down to Brendan’s inexperience as a manager.

He has obviously believed that getting Carroll out would enable him to bring Dempsey in. Maybe he has taken somebody’s word and then been let down.

Dempsey is not the out-and-out centre-forward that Carroll is, but he would have given another option and another body.

What do Liverpool have without either of them? They have Luis Suárez and Fabio Borini and, while Suárez will work all day long, he is no target man.

Borini, on the other hand, has not shown anything in his three league games so far since arriving from Roma, so Liverpool are now really short of attacking options.

It is all very well looking at Dempsey and judging that he would offer no re-sale value in four years’ time as a 33 year-old, but Liverpool needed to speculate to accumulate in order to close the gap from eighth to fourth in order to challenge for the Champions League.

When Liverpool won the League Cup last season, the owners came out with a statement saying that the club could compete with anybody, but they look a long way from that.

Brendan has got rid of a lot of players and made big cuts to the wage bill, but the team needs investment to qualify for the Champions League.

Letting Carroll go has left Liverpool without the ability to vary their tactics when the situation demands it.

It seems that Rodgers hasn’t fancied Carroll as a player from the outset, but he is probably the best header of a ball in the Premier League and he would have brought goals had he stayed.

Liverpool are obviously changing the style of play under their new manager, but if your philosophy is pass-pass-pass, what happens when you are playing against teams like Arsenal who have better passers than you?

Liverpool have the players who can pass and press opponents but with Andy Carroll in the team they would have another option.

But after three league games, Liverpool are in the bottom three having collected just one point from a possible nine.

It is not panic time yet, but with Sunderland away after the international break followed by Manchester United at home, one point from nine could quickly become two from 15.
 
What was apparent in Rodgers' post-match inquest is that the problem is not simply the new financial reality at Anfield, essential if the club is to abide by the fair play regulations John W Henry champions. It is the contradictory messages that are exasperating.

Liverpool continue to behave and present themselves on the same level as Barcelona or Real Madrid, issuing statements about possessing resources to compete with anyone when they are years behind and cannot possibly guarantee the vast economic gap can ever be bridged. They knew they had to cut wages. The pay-offs to the outgoing management team also impacted on Rodgers' budget, so why didn't they say so publicly?

Rodgers will also be seeking assurances that his player recommendations are not being vetted and counter-assessed by others. He did, after all, take the job having negotiated the absence of a director of football.

FSG laud their now mythical 'advisers' -- supposedly highly respected names within football but presumably too shy to be identified. It would be helpful to know who they are, just to be reassured (as some fans fear) they are not internet nerds who sit at laptops downloading football manager software and telling Henry and chairman Tom Werner who they should and should not buy.

What was clear on Friday is that even managing director Ian Ayre did not have the clearance to conclude the Dempsey deal. There are others at Anfield who, privately, were insisting a month ago it would never happen. Contradictory messages again. Rodgers was evidently working on a false premise but he has no intention of walking away already. "It's been a big learning curve for the owners as well," said Rodgers.

"They have come in and invested over £100m. They have made big changes for whatever reason and one of the most iconic figures in Liverpool's history has left. They have made a commitment to have me here for the long term.

"I have a group of people that I work very well with. The owners are very honest and up-front with me. I have got no problem with that. There are one or two things that we have to iron out, but I don't feel they have misled me in any way."

"There are just one or two operational things that we need to organise. If we do that, it will certainly help us in the next window and the window after that. I have spoken to the people back in America. I have laid out my thoughts. We had a couple of brief conversations about what might happen in January and will reflect on that again next week."

If Liverpool's results and performances deteriorate, what the club's American owners consider prudence and pragmatism, others will see as negligence.
 
He was backed to the tune of 20M. Speculation has seen us hemmorage unconscionable amounts of money on players, these are losses we've been realizing over the last many transfer seasons. Carroll, Aquilani, etc.

Then there's the losses we can't even get rid of and are still bleeding us, like Cole.

Then there's the losses realized every time we field a team that is below what we need it to be, like Henderson, Downing, etc. Players that if they were actually worth what we spent on them, would see us performing at a higher level.

Years and years of gross mismanagement have landed us where we are now, and the grossest waste of money we've ever seen at this club happened last year, which takes some doing. We don't have champions league money coming in, and we weren't likely to this season. We desperately needed to cut our wage bill, which swelled under our disastrous last owners, who at the end were trading astronomical wage payments in lieu of any cash up front.

You are right to criticize the idiotic decisions and appointments of FSG last season, Commoli was a disaster, and failed in his most important charge - to prevent any manager from making transfer decisions which represent horrific or incredibly risky investments. Strangely though, you want them to throw more money at the problem, when the cost of failure will only increase. What you want is either the idiotic cowboys you decry, or a sugar daddy owner who doesn't run the club like a business. I find both repugnant.

I also find incompetence repugnant, and that clearly hasn't been eradicated given the ending to the transfer season we just had, but the idea that Liverpool are now paupers because we are finally being responsible, or that the manager hasn't been backed because of a transfer fuck up initially of his own making is just not on for me. Nor is the idea that somehow if we had Clint Dempsey, or indeed any other 5 or 6M forward, that we'd be in a significantly different position than we are right now. The stupidity of us not having a backup comes into play if (more likely when) Suarez gets injured, and will be lessened if Borini was a good buy. Fingers crossed on both those counts, but we've got a long way to go.

I find it funny that you say that others should get their heads out of the sand, if you think that there's a 6M difference between us and a top 4 finish. We need to buy smart for some time to climb out of the hole that has been dug over the course of the last many years. Not only have we replaced truly our truly great players like Mascherano, Alonso, and Torres with utter shit, and spent more for less at every turn, even down to replacing players like Benayoun with Cole, the good players we have kept, by and large have degraded in quality. Buying smart doesn't start with a fucking bumper sticker.
This post is like a badly needed breath of fresh air for the forum.
 
He was backed to the tune of 20M. Speculation has seen us hemmorage unconscionable amounts of money on players, these are losses we've been realizing over the last many transfer seasons. Carroll, Aquilani, etc.

Then there's the losses we can't even get rid of and are still bleeding us, like Cole.

Then there's the losses realized every time we field a team that is below what we need it to be, like Henderson, Downing, etc. Players that if they were actually worth what we spent on them, would see us performing at a higher level.

Years and years of gross mismanagement have landed us where we are now, and the grossest waste of money we've ever seen at this club happened last year, which takes some doing. We don't have champions league money coming in, and we weren't likely to this season. We desperately needed to cut our wage bill, which swelled under our disastrous last owners, who at the end were trading astronomical wage payments in lieu of any cash up front.

You are right to criticize the idiotic decisions and appointments of FSG last season, Commoli was a disaster, and failed in his most important charge - to prevent any manager from making transfer decisions which represent horrific or incredibly risky investments. Strangely though, you want them to throw more money at the problem, when the cost of failure will only increase. What you want is either the idiotic cowboys you decry, or a sugar daddy owner who doesn't run the club like a business. I find both repugnant.

I also find incompetence repugnant, and that clearly hasn't been eradicated given the ending to the transfer season we just had, but the idea that Liverpool are now paupers because we are finally being responsible, or that the manager hasn't been backed because of a transfer fuck up initially of his own making is just not on for me. Nor is the idea that somehow if we had Clint Dempsey, or indeed any other 5 or 6M forward, that we'd be in a significantly different position than we are right now. The stupidity of us not having a backup comes into play if (more likely when) Suarez gets injured, and will be lessened if Borini was a good buy. Fingers crossed on both those counts, but we've got a long way to go.

I find it funny that you say that others should get their heads out of the sand, if you think that there's a 6M difference between us and a top 4 finish. We need to buy smart for some time to climb out of the hole that has been dug over the course of the last many years. Not only have we replaced truly our truly great players like Mascherano, Alonso, and Torres with utter shit, and spent more for less at every turn, even down to replacing players like Benayoun with Cole, the good players we have kept, by and large have degraded in quality. Buying smart doesn't start with a fucking bumper sticker.

Amen.
 
Great post by Fark.

It's still fairly ridiculous that we find ourselves with one senior striker in the squad though.

We need Borini to be a very good buy.
 
We need Borini to be a very good buy.

I'm not that optimistic. Particularly on his performance against Arsenal when he showed a tendency to shit out of tackles. Maybe that was on instructions as we can't afford him to pick up an injury!

Normally when we play Arsenal, we work hard to keep closing them down for the full 90 minutes, but yesterday we gave them acres of space to show off their soccer skills. If tiki-taka means playing like a bunch of fairies, I'm against it. 🙄
 
Before that, we need Rodgers to play him as a striker.

Yes I didn't think Rodgers got it right against Arsenal - he was playing Suarez in the middle and Borini on the wing. That is the reverse of where both players should be most effective.
 
Interesting Article from Football 365

The Board out! Rodgers out! Kenny in!
Yes. Kenny in.
Can you believe it? This was the profound conclusion of a Liverpool phone-in fan this weekend.
Others called Rodgers 'a clown'. Talk about a rush to judgement.
Someone even bestowed upon their new manager the ultimate insult - comparing him to Steve Kean. This is a man whose role in football seems to be the standard against which all failure and delusion is set.
This kind of hysterical reaction was exactly what Liverpool fans of old mocked in others. They were the model for an empire built on phlegmatic stability.
So okay, the whoopy-doop yeehawers are already getting their posse together for a lynching. These early calls for Rodgers' sacking reveal a more corrosive belief which infects football; the belief that you can clear out one lot of owners, players and management and replace them with a new successful raft. Just like that.
Rubbish out, quality in. Easy.
This is an intellectual redux which can't be allowed to pass unchallenged because while it is easy to mock, it certainly creates an atmosphere which is antipathetic to a regime with vision and long-term planning. It would trade long-term success for short-term gain. Indeed, it seems to have no conception of long-term at all - their existence is all about jam today.
Vision in football is a rare thing. Most managers do just that. They manage. But they don't really have nor are required to have a long-term vision.
However, the most successful managers usually do have The V Thing. Sir Alex Ferguson had it, Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola have had it. In the past, managers such as Bill Nicholson, Bill Shankly and Brian Clough had it. Internationally, Rinus Michels had it.
The V Thing is hard to define but you know it when you see it and it seems to me that Brendan Rodgers has The V Thing too. You might not like it or you might not want to wait as long as it takes for it to be successful, but he does have it.
He seems affable but also unsettling and hard-faced. He is dismissive of foolishness as the clips of him slapping down Raheem Sterling in pre-season training show. He has the iron fist in the modern, velvet glove. Pleasingly, he seems slightly bonkers in a Rafa-style manner with his eyes betraying a brain in overdrive even when saying very little. His features are too big for the size of his head and his chunky legs too short for his body, all giving him a slightly hobbit-like quality.
He sees Liverpool playing in a specific manner and he sees this being the club's philosophy from youth and development upwards; a kind of governing football morality.
But he has arrived at a time when the club has been taken, somewhat rudderless, in the wrong direction, so there is much work to do to turn the tanker around. There is no underestimating this.
This is not the time for impatience from LFC fans. Rodgers' aim is nothing less than to transform the club from being the basket case it has been for years, into the club it once was; a by-word for pass-and-move quality which is built on solid ground and definite principles.
This will almost certainly mean casting off old heroes. Is there a regular place for Stevie Gerrard in this new environment? Suddenly, Gerrard looks like the past, playing a kind of football at odds with his new modern environment. It's going to be messy but on such revolutions are new empires built.
The constant churn of middling quality players has to stop. Long-term proper investment in players who can all fit into a single system can't be done in one or two windows, not when the overhaul needed is so deep. And this isn't just a matter of providing lavish money to buy in a new regime - plenty of money has been spent and almost all of it wasted at Liverpool for years now. Scouting and player development will be axiomatic to the Rodgers' revolution not least because when you are no longer the brightest star in the sky, you can't attract the very best.
The Liverpool academy has many fans but hasn't produced a world-class player for years. This also has to change but also can't change overnight. It takes time and investment and proper coaching. It needs that V Thing again to interlock the development players with the first team.
All of us who enjoyed the dynasty that Liverpool once was would like to see them become a major player again but it could get worse before it gets better. Maybe it has to. When Sir Alex Ferguson took over at United, 1000 league games ago, like Liverpool, they had recently won a few cups - though nothing as prestigious at the Champions League - and kept misfiring in the league. For the first three years under him, they were nothing special, 'still crap' as the famous 'Fergie Out' banner stated at the time.
But Ferguson was changing the culture of the club in that period, improving fitness, coaching and youth development. He gradually bought better players and married them to home-grown talent that he could shape into an unbeatable team. Eventually, it paid off and paid off big. Eventually he built a dynasty precisely because he was not a slave to instant results. He knew to build anything big you needed massive foundations. It needed a big fix.
Modern football is more impatient and the financial implications of failure are worse than they once were but the underlying principles remain the same. Profound generational and lasting change for the good still can't happen overnight in football and needs vision to happen at all.
You can briefly buy success but you need a deep, ingrained quality married to a winning culture to maintain it. This is why Ferguson's mob dominates and others now have to spend a billion to try and merely imitate.
This isn't just about having one decent season now and again, it's about re-building the very DNA of Liverpool from the roots up and swallowing the fact that while this happens, bad days will out-number good. LFC fans need to self-police themselves into being patient and into not over-reacting to every perceived mistake. They are not being let down, these are the birthing pains for a new future.
Because if not Rodgers' V Thing, then what? More nostalgia? More wasteful spending? More directionless drifting? Liverpool was a football empire built by a short, chunky, slightly odd Celtic man with a vision. Remember that

I still back Rodgers 100% but I reckon its going to get worse before it gets better, one thing is certain we cannot go backwards now, the past is too enticing for Liverpool. its too familiar too comforting, while a minority of our fans pine for the old days and eulogies the 'liverpool way' those do not help us now. We need to move forward and we need a manager with a 5-10 year plan in him, one that doesnt rely on outspending every other team in the league because that just isnt going to happen.
 
He was backed to the tune of 20M. Speculation has seen us hemmorage unconscionable amounts of money on players, these are losses we've been realizing over the last many transfer seasons. Carroll, Aquilani, etc.

Then there's the losses we can't even get rid of and are still bleeding us, like Cole.

Then there's the losses realized every time we field a team that is below what we need it to be, like Henderson, Downing, etc. Players that if they were actually worth what we spent on them, would see us performing at a higher level.

Years and years of gross mismanagement have landed us where we are now, and the grossest waste of money we've ever seen at this club happened last year, which takes some doing. We don't have champions league money coming in, and we weren't likely to this season. We desperately needed to cut our wage bill, which swelled under our disastrous last owners, who at the end were trading astronomical wage payments in lieu of any cash up front.

You are right to criticize the idiotic decisions and appointments of FSG last season, Commoli was a disaster, and failed in his most important charge - to prevent any manager from making transfer decisions which represent horrific or incredibly risky investments. Strangely though, you want them to throw more money at the problem, when the cost of failure will only increase. What you want is either the idiotic cowboys you decry, or a sugar daddy owner who doesn't run the club like a business. I find both repugnant.

I also find incompetence repugnant, and that clearly hasn't been eradicated given the ending to the transfer season we just had, but the idea that Liverpool are now paupers because we are finally being responsible, or that the manager hasn't been backed because of a transfer fuck up initially of his own making is just not on for me. Nor is the idea that somehow if we had Clint Dempsey, or indeed any other 5 or 6M forward, that we'd be in a significantly different position than we are right now. The stupidity of us not having a backup comes into play if (more likely when) Suarez gets injured, and will be lessened if Borini was a good buy. Fingers crossed on both those counts, but we've got a long way to go.

I find it funny that you say that others should get their heads out of the sand, if you think that there's a 6M difference between us and a top 4 finish. We need to buy smart for some time to climb out of the hole that has been dug over the course of the last many years. Not only have we replaced truly our truly great players like Mascherano, Alonso, and Torres with utter shit, and spent more for less at every turn, even down to replacing players like Benayoun with Cole, the good players we have kept, by and large have degraded in quality. Buying smart doesn't start with a fucking bumper sticker.
If we can sticky one post, this would be it.
 
There are some fans, despite what happned under Kenny last year that would honestly welcome him back, in fact would like BR to get the sack so he can come back. In short we have fans who are just very very thick.
 
Interesting Article from Football 365



I still back Rodgers 100% but I reckon its going to get worse before it gets better, one thing is certain we cannot go backwards now, the past is too enticing for Liverpool. its too familiar too comforting, while a minority of our fans pine for the old days and eulogies the 'liverpool way' those do not help us now. We need to move forward and we need a manager with a 5-10 year plan in him, one that doesnt rely on outspending every other team in the league because that just isnt going to happen.

Ha, you know I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard, and said, "reckon its going to get worse before it gets better". The thing is, it's just seems to be getting worse. Every now and again we'll have a little pick me up where we have little bit of hope and allow our defences to temporarily drop and then POW reality swipes in with a massive volley in the goolies and you feel like you're back to square one. With very sore goolies.
 
Ha, you know I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard, and said, "reckon its going to get worse before it gets better". The thing is, it's just seems to be getting worse. Every now and again we'll have a little pick me up where we have little bit of hope and allow our defences to temporarily drop and then POW reality swipes in with a massive volley in the goolies and you feel like you're back to square one. With very sore goolies.
I think it's much worse for you oldies (sorry, i mean anyone over 25) cos you were alive when we actually had a good team and won lots of trophies.

For someone like me who has only really had two great cup wins to savour (Big ears and Ged's Uefa cup) and some FA cup wins here and there, getting worse before it gets better is not going to be a problem because it could never really be much worse than the ends of Ged's and Rafa's reign, nor any of Roy's.

Maybe Henry should concentrate on reminding us about the shit times in the past 20 years and just going 'see, we're not *that* bad' instead of a really long speech.
 
I think it's much worse for you oldies (sorry, i mean anyone over 25) cos you were alive when we actually had a good team and won lots of trophies.

For someone like me who has only really had two great cup wins to savour (Big ears and Ged's Uefa cup) and some FA cup wins here and there, getting worse before it gets better is not going to be a problem because it could never really be much worse than the ends of Ged's and Rafa's reign, nor any of Roy's.

Maybe Henry should concentrate on reminding us about the shit times in the past 20 years and just going 'see, we're not *that* bad' instead of a really long speech.

I can relate to that, i'm not old enough to remember the good old days but at the same time, i can't remember time's being so bad as they are now.

Up until the 2010-2011 season, Liverpool were always a team which was taked about as Title Contenders, we were in the Champions League most seasons and doing very well in it, and generally we were a force to be reckoned with. Now, we're a bit of a laughing stock and it's hard to accept and leaves every Liverpool fan dis-heartened and down. It's fucking horrible.
 
Ha, you know I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard, and said, "reckon its going to get worse before it gets better". The thing is, it's just seems to be getting worse. Every now and again we'll have a little pick me up where we have little bit of hope and allow our defences to temporarily drop and then POW reality swipes in with a massive volley in the goolies and you feel like you're back to square one. With very sore goolies.

Yep, this is it.
We're completely shit for a few games, then turn in a mega performance and beat a Utd/Chelsea/ City which gives us loads of hope only for us to lose to Wigan or some crap team like that.
 
I think it's much worse for you oldies (sorry, i mean anyone over 25) cos you were alive when we actually had a good team and won lots of trophies.

For someone like me who has only really had two great cup wins to savour (Big ears and Ged's Uefa cup) and some FA cup wins here and there, getting worse before it gets better is not going to be a problem because it could never really be much worse than the ends of Ged's and Rafa's reign, nor any of Roy's.

Maybe Henry should concentrate on reminding us about the shit times in the past 20 years and just going 'see, we're not *that* bad' instead of a really long speech.

It's no worse for us 'oldies' (cheeky twat) than anyone else. Footy is a game of highs and lows. Things seem poo at the moment but you'll know, well hope, you'll have a few moments this season that make all the rest of the painful days worthwhile. True glory is a long way off but, if you don't have a bit of hope, you're following the wrong club.
 
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