Lunacy. It is clearly too early for social media. or any kind of contact with the world. Peno my arse.
Liverpool v Everton Match Thread
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I don't need to check, and I've heard the conference. I know what went on, unlike you, who is looking at a one camera shot of Klopp and can't see any of the hands that you claim to have counted.
Pundits over here called it pretty much a pathetic decision by the ref and backed Klopp in his view on the situation. The match commentator the same.
We can all agree that it was stupid of Lovren to give him a chance to go down.
But, with that said, I don't get where this notion that he had TWO hands on his BACK comes from.. every time I watch it, I see his left hand on his back (with a slight push), and Lovren's right arm on his shoulder.
Had Lovren made no contact at all, and had been outmuscled by DCL, who then cut inside and scored, we'd have the same critics on here saying he should have got more physical with him and how embarrassing it was for a kid to outmuscle him.
The truth is, that DCL conned Lovren. On the continent, they'd call it being "clever". Suarez was an expert at this sort of thing.
Basically, all game they had been physical and Lovren was probably expecting another battle. But like all "clever" strikers, DCL realised he was in the box at this moment, and this was the time he'd fake to get physical with Lovren but instead be "soft" and invite contact, knowing that any contact from Lovren, he would go down. Lovren gave him that excuse.
In my opinion, a smart referee would know this little trick and would either allow them to go 50-50 all game, or cut it out early doors. If the shoe was on the other foot, and Lovren had gone down under the same contact from DCL, I bet the referee would have waved play on, and again, the same critics would be saying "he should have been stronger".
Having said all that, I also believe a smart defender would be prepared for this change in physicality once they entered the box and wouldn't give the striker the opportunity to con him.
But, with that said, I don't get where this notion that he had TWO hands on his BACK comes from.. every time I watch it, I see his left hand on his back (with a slight push), and Lovren's right arm on his shoulder.
Had Lovren made no contact at all, and had been outmuscled by DCL, who then cut inside and scored, we'd have the same critics on here saying he should have got more physical with him and how embarrassing it was for a kid to outmuscle him.
The truth is, that DCL conned Lovren. On the continent, they'd call it being "clever". Suarez was an expert at this sort of thing.
Basically, all game they had been physical and Lovren was probably expecting another battle. But like all "clever" strikers, DCL realised he was in the box at this moment, and this was the time he'd fake to get physical with Lovren but instead be "soft" and invite contact, knowing that any contact from Lovren, he would go down. Lovren gave him that excuse.
In my opinion, a smart referee would know this little trick and would either allow them to go 50-50 all game, or cut it out early doors. If the shoe was on the other foot, and Lovren had gone down under the same contact from DCL, I bet the referee would have waved play on, and again, the same critics would be saying "he should have been stronger".
Having said all that, I also believe a smart defender would be prepared for this change in physicality once they entered the box and wouldn't give the striker the opportunity to con him.
A few referees I've seen talking about it have said its NOT a penalty. I'd rather listen to them then the papers and papers.
One referee over here said it wasnt even soft, it was a gift to Everton.
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If we'd have stuck with the side that twatted Moscow, we'd have twatted Everton and no one would be talking about how fucking stupid Lovren is or arguing about Klopp being a shithouse. He could have played the under 23s against West Brom and said as much today and we'd have worn it. But finding out an hour before the game. I stuck a tenner on Everton at 12 to 1 as soon as I saw the team, but by the time the bet got accepted it had gone down to 9.5 to 1. The bookies knew it, I knew it, I don't get why anyone is defending such an insulting team selection.
Because the team that was selected wasn’t the one that drew the game. In fact they were winning. And should have been winning 3-0 if not for some bad finishing.
People say it was Fat Sam’s tactic to do fuck all for 75 minutes, but are ignoring the relentless pressing and interceptions we made whenever they had the ball. They tried, but couldn’t do anything.
Ideally we’d have played our best players. That’s obvious. But with our schedule in mind we did what we did, and were looking good for it but for bad finishing by our top 2 players. And a dickhead referee calling a fake foul on our dickhead defender.
Nah. Fat Sam won the tactical battle. No doubt at all.
I don't think his tactics were to wait 75 mins, they were just that he knew that he had a chance of us fucking up at some point. And we did. Also, he must have come in his pie butty when he saw our team sheet.
I don't think his tactics were to wait 75 mins, they were just that he knew that he had a chance of us fucking up at some point. And we did. Also, he must have come in his pie butty when he saw our team sheet.
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It was soft but Lovren gave the referee a decision to make and these do seem to begiven, see Henderson on Murray against Brighton
Lovren just isnt intelligent enough, we already knew that and this is an unfortunate bi-product of that.Klopp is to blame in my eyes, I honestly dont see how we dont score more than one with the first 11 starting playing rather than the team fielded. Lovrens mistake shoudlvelesd to no more than a consolation goal. We best pick three points up against West Brom on Weds or his whole exercise in squad rotation was innefective
Lovren just isnt intelligent enough, we already knew that and this is an unfortunate bi-product of that.Klopp is to blame in my eyes, I honestly dont see how we dont score more than one with the first 11 starting playing rather than the team fielded. Lovrens mistake shoudlvelesd to no more than a consolation goal. We best pick three points up against West Brom on Weds or his whole exercise in squad rotation was innefective
The fact that Lovren is still playing for us is Klopp's fault too.
That we won 7-0 on Wednesday was down to Klopp, and I love him for it. But i can't get over how he dealt with these two games when looked at together. The Moscow game was won at half time, certainly by 47 mins. If you needed to rest anyone that was when to do it.
That we won 7-0 on Wednesday was down to Klopp, and I love him for it. But i can't get over how he dealt with these two games when looked at together. The Moscow game was won at half time, certainly by 47 mins. If you needed to rest anyone that was when to do it.
We did make up ground
It's extremely frustrating. Even more so knowing that if the ref makes the correct call or if Lovren keeps his hands down, we're almost certainly walking away with 3 points.
That said, Lovren's action in the moment and the ref's decision are both things that you can expect to happen in football sometimes, even at the highest level.
Frustrating, and painful since it was the derby, but let's try to retain some perspective. It's been 10 matches since the Spurs disaster, when some people were calling for Klopps head and others were just calling him an idiot.
Since then: WWWWDDWWWD (Scored 33, conceded 7, 5 clean sheets).
The first draw in that run, was an away game in the CL in which a draw was enough to qualify and we scored 3 goals. Despite the 4 and a half winning performances preceding it, the knives were out again from some before the final whistle.
Then we drew against Chelsea and went on a run of 3 wins (scoring 15 goals), before we drew with Everton thanks to a soft penalty at the death of a game we absolutely dominated.
We have no idea what would have happened if Phil and Bobby started the game. We may have lost, we may have lost a key player to injury, we may have won 8-0... fuck knows.
Everyone on here knows full well that you cannot know the outcome of a football match based on the starting 11's. In my opinion, calling Klopp an idiot for the decision is a very strange position to take, especially given our current form and the way we ended up dropping the points in this game.
That said, Lovren's action in the moment and the ref's decision are both things that you can expect to happen in football sometimes, even at the highest level.
Frustrating, and painful since it was the derby, but let's try to retain some perspective. It's been 10 matches since the Spurs disaster, when some people were calling for Klopps head and others were just calling him an idiot.
Since then: WWWWDDWWWD (Scored 33, conceded 7, 5 clean sheets).
The first draw in that run, was an away game in the CL in which a draw was enough to qualify and we scored 3 goals. Despite the 4 and a half winning performances preceding it, the knives were out again from some before the final whistle.
Then we drew against Chelsea and went on a run of 3 wins (scoring 15 goals), before we drew with Everton thanks to a soft penalty at the death of a game we absolutely dominated.
We have no idea what would have happened if Phil and Bobby started the game. We may have lost, we may have lost a key player to injury, we may have won 8-0... fuck knows.
Everyone on here knows full well that you cannot know the outcome of a football match based on the starting 11's. In my opinion, calling Klopp an idiot for the decision is a very strange position to take, especially given our current form and the way we ended up dropping the points in this game.
I think Klopp was 100% correct in his selection and had we won 1-0 or whatever no one would be questioning his selection. It was a derby game and he probably thought he needed a bit of steel in the middle. So we created little and so what ? - they were defending really well and limited our shots on target - this would have happened to any team faced with the wall we faced. We had a few chances to kill it off - and we missed them so really nothing to do with Klopp. Also past experience of playing with Firmino, Coutinho in these types of games have yielded the same results.
Bullshit. I can’t believe I’m reading such nonsense from intelligent posters. Everton were awful. That was one of the most pitiful non performances by an Everton team I’ve ever seen. They were ludicrously lucky is all. They were the worst team that’s played us this year and the tactics were fucking shite.
Have to agree - everytime I have watched us play them they have come out and at least tried to 'compete' with what they have. This time round - it just looked like they did not want to come out of their half. They got lucky with that pass and Lovren did something silly. We just failed to take the chances we had or as per normal did not make our possession count.
Past experience of derbys at Anfield? You mean like last season when both Firmino and Coutinho started and we beat them 3-1 with Coutinho on the scoresheet, or maybe you meant the year before when Firmino and Coutinho started and we beat them 4-0 with Coutinho scoresheet.
Strategy or not - it worked because we failed to take our chances. One of those chances was so easy we should not have failed at it. However, the undertones of some of the arguments is the mad assumption that having Coutinho/Firmino from the outset would have meant we won the game easily and that Klopp made the wrong selections. I don't think the manager did anything wrong with his selection. If anything the team looked worse with Coutinho and Firmino on.
Past scores under different managers with different tactics have no bearing on what happened on Sunday. If anything - what it showed was yet again we struggle with parked bus teams, by not being effective in our decision making in the final third. Also those two players had 18 odd minutes to do something on the pitch and they still failed.
I specifically said I couldn't see them and went by what Klopp himself said ("so you all thought it was a goal") so you can fuck off with the deliberate misquote on what I 'claim'.
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Didn't see the game because of work and now, knowing the result and the main talking points around it, probably won't rewatch it. But generally I'm in @Woland's camp on this discussion – maybe I wouldn't quite phrase it as Fat Sam "winning" the tactical battle by keeping 10 men behind the ball, but Klopp did make a bad mistake with the team selection. I'm a fan of Solanke, but starting a lad who's never scored in the Premier League over Coutinho or Firmino in a game like this (and subbing Salah with the game still very much in the balance) was simply arrogant and this game usually punishes arrogance.
It's a bit like Mane's miss – if you make a decision that goes squarely against conventional wisdom, it better work out or you deserve all the criticism coming your way.
It's a bit like Mane's miss – if you make a decision that goes squarely against conventional wisdom, it better work out or you deserve all the criticism coming your way.
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Bit late on the scene here but I'm of the opinion Klopp had arguably his worst game/day in charge as Liverpool Manager yesterday (their's quite a few to choose from as well). First of WTF even is that for a starting 11 in a Merseyside Derby? Playing a 20 year old rookie up top when he's barely played all fucking season in the fucking Derby? You taking the fucking piss? Not playing Coutinho and Firmino?? Why oh fucking why?? That has arrogance written all over it....Wait you see this everyone im gonna rest a few of our key men and we'll smash 3 or 4 past these and I'll look dead clever afterwards. Manage the squad??..rest them against West Brom or Bournemouth, Jurgen..not in the Derby you clown!
"Oh but if Mane scores it's 2nil and game over" those who suck Klopp's dick will say...well he didn't score did he. Play your best players in the biggest games...yes Everton are shite and we should've beat them anyway but why take the risk?? Its not like "the fab 4" have played all season together is it. Taking Salah off at 1nil as well...words fail me.
To round things off he goes and makes a twat of himself in his post match interview. But but but Klopp and Liverpool are a match made in heaven. He gets the Club, the City. He's a Manager befitting of the Liverpool way..do me a favour. Embarrassing, cringeworthy stuff.
Seen other Liverpool Managers hung drawn and quartered for much less.
"Oh but if Mane scores it's 2nil and game over" those who suck Klopp's dick will say...well he didn't score did he. Play your best players in the biggest games...yes Everton are shite and we should've beat them anyway but why take the risk?? Its not like "the fab 4" have played all season together is it. Taking Salah off at 1nil as well...words fail me.
To round things off he goes and makes a twat of himself in his post match interview. But but but Klopp and Liverpool are a match made in heaven. He gets the Club, the City. He's a Manager befitting of the Liverpool way..do me a favour. Embarrassing, cringeworthy stuff.
Seen other Liverpool Managers hung drawn and quartered for much less.
I would watch it. It was an amazingly comfortable game. Everton brought nothing. We scored an amazing goal and had a succession of excellent chances. It was enjoyable. And then we were robbed by some play acting and a ref of spectacular incompetence.
Salah looked tired. We can blow all the steam now or save some for later. No arrogance in that at all.
Coutinho and Firmino can't play all games. Simple as that. We tried that last year and it backfired heavily.
Fat Sam gets credit after putting out a team that completed 100 passes in 95 minutes. They didn't even try to find another Everton player. Whenever they had the ball they either kicked out of the pitch or we won it back immidiately. We didn't create too many clearcut chances, but we had more than enough to win this comfortably, but the ball bounced the wrong way too many times. Salah's header was one of the chances that should have killed the game off.
We have scored 40 goals on the last 11 matches leading to the game on Sunday. Those games have led to 1 loss a few draws and rest comfortable wins. We have scored those goals as a team, rotated players and played some stunning football. To be able to keep that clock ticking we have to rotate even more, or else we go dry ups in January - february? Why haven't people shouted arrogance through that spell?
Exactly... so true on every single point.
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