Kenwyne Jones loan deal done?

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38499.msg1038662#msg1038662 date=1263993860]
I side with Mark, TBH.

I'd sooner go after the cheaper/freebie options because I don't believe they're necessarily weaker. It's not Jones or bust, although time is quickly running out. If we can pick up Chamach for £2-3M now then it would almost certainly be worth it and would have less of an impact on our summer transfer budget. If we can't work something out, then, yeah, we'll have to move quickly for Jones.

The priority has to be selling Babel, though. With him not leaving, all of this seems pointless.
[/quote]

I agree and I don't , if we could get this mystery freebie then great, but it isn't going to happen. Chamakh (alone) would be a huge risk in this window, we need someone that is used to the prem and hits the ground running.
Selling Babel and a quick strike for Jones looks to me currently our only realistic option

regards

 

[Paddy]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38499.msg1038650#msg1038650 date=1263993132]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=38499.msg1038618#msg1038618 date=1263987906]
Considering how shit our wing play is at the moment, no I wouldnt do a straight swap. I want somebody more direct. A bit of pace about them. Long ball overload is the last thing we need. Nemeth would be a good option even. Even take a risk on fucking Beckford.
[/quote]

What is your opinion on Maxi, is he not a tricky winger, and could Riera not come into the equation?
Your ideal way out of this would be Babel up front?
Paddy I know you don't believe that for a minute, and you are just trying to get out of teh corner I m very cleverly pushing you into 😉

regards
[/quote]

No I'm not Vlad. But our wing play has never being spectacular and I don't think for a minute that Kuyt will be dropped form the right wing.
I think Babel should be giving a go. Why not? He is experienced, he does have talent. It would be better than N'gog.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38499.msg1038668#msg1038668 date=1263994234]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38499.msg1038662#msg1038662 date=1263993860]
I side with Mark, TBH.

I'd sooner go after the cheaper/freebie options because I don't believe they're necessarily weaker. It's not Jones or bust, although time is quickly running out. If we can pick up Chamach for £2-3M now then it would almost certainly be worth it and would have less of an impact on our summer transfer budget. If we can't work something out, then, yeah, we'll have to move quickly for Jones.

The priority has to be selling Babel, though. With him not leaving, all of this seems pointless.
[/quote]

I agree and I don't , if we could get this mystery freebie then great, but it isn't going to happen. Chamakh (alone) would be a huge risk in this window, we need someone that is used to the prem and hits the ground running.
Selling Babel and a quick strike for Jones looks to me currently our only realistic option

regards


[/quote]

TBH I'm not greatly bothered either way. I've been a fan of Jones for a while and was guilty of bigging him up in the past, and I don't think we'll look back in the summer and regret spending money - if you don't do it when the clubs in crisis then when do you? - so it's not just the cost implications. Jones, by the very nature of his play, thrives on crosses and decent balls on the box and it's clear Sunderland have set up around his - and Bent's - way of play. We wouldn't do that, no chance. In fact under Rafa we're quite merciless at times in ensuring we don't get the best out of some of our players - cf a young N'gog up front alone and not paired with Kuyt. I wanted Jones here when we had Finnan and/or Pennant on our right side and we put in plenty of balls into the box. Now, apart from Johnson, there's hardly anyone who can do it. and I fear Jones could be a blunt tool under Benitez.

From the 5-6 times I've seen Chamach he's a more creative and his goal scoring record in recent seasons has been pretty impressive so there is a slight preference there for me, but it could just be a case of the lesser you know, the more you crave.

Anyway, something has to be done this window.

 

[Wilko7]

A Mirror story from BBC's roundup. The Shite also says Babel has changed his mind about moving to Brum.

Liverpool and Sunderland agree Kenwyne Jones tax dodge - Exclusive
Published 23:00 20/01/10 By James Nursey
(2)Recommend (1)

Liverpool's move for Kenwyne Jones is set to include a clever tax break.

Sunderland are in negotiations to sell their Trinidad & Tobago striker to the Anfield club in a £12million transfer.

But Jones, 25, is likely to move on loan initially, ahead of a guaranteed permanent transfer in the summer.

This enables both clubs to carry the impact of the transfer on their balance sheets into the next tax year which begins in April.

West Brom have pioneered this type of transfer with the sales of Tomasz Kuszczak, Curtis Davies and Jonathan Greening to Manchester United, Aston Villa and Fulham respectively.

All three went on initial loan deals ahead of permanent transfers in the next tax year.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38499.msg1038580#msg1038580 date=1263984644]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38499.msg1038562#msg1038562 date=1263982588]
Fair enough, but what if the money isn't there in the Summer? I know we need a striker now, and I'm pretty sure we could find a better one than Jones for £12m. The quoted fee, regardless of us possibly selling Babel for more than he's worth, is a huge chunk of our regular budget.

If the Summer and this transfer window are anything to go by, we have to sell to buy. If that's the case the £10m from Babel (or whatever we get) is sorely needed towards quality.

Needs must I know, and we need someone, I understand that and I'm not saying save the money and buy no one, but there are alternatives surely? Like what I've just said about Chamakh.
[/quote]

I suppose we have a choice, write this season off, and start tooling up for the summer, or try and make a fight of fourth spot.
We have no chance of fourth spot without bringing in a striker, we have an outside chance if we do, and they earn us a few points that we would not have had without them.
If there is no appropriate loan signing around what do we do?
If we get Kenwyne Jones and he helps us reach a CL place then it has been self funding.


regards
[/quote]

You trust Rafa of spending more money this January window?

Having said that, some of us think NoGoal can fill the gap up front and fire us to fourth place. Plus Rafa has given his word that we'll finish fourth. So if we fail which i think we will, hope Rafa go in the summer. The sooner the better.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Paddy link=topic=38499.msg1038618#msg1038618 date=1263987906]
Considering how shit our wing play is at the moment, no I wouldnt do a straight swap. I want somebody more direct. A bit of pace about them. Long ball overload is the last thing we need. Nemeth would be a good option even. Even take a risk on fucking Beckford.
[/quote]

The Genius let him go out on-loan and doesn't make the effort to recall him back when injury crisis hit us.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Paddy link=topic=38499.msg1038618#msg1038618 date=1263987906]
Considering how shit our wing play is at the moment, no I wouldnt do a straight swap. I want somebody more direct. A bit of pace about them. Long ball overload is the last thing we need. Nemeth would be a good option even. Even take a risk on fucking Beckford.
[/quote]

I have to take issue with one thing, a long ball outlet sadly could have helped us quite a bit this season. Our midfield should be better, we shouldn't need it, and it's a step backwards, but it'd have won us more points I think.

We've dropped a lot of points with Torres playing, who is an unparalleled direct pacy striker, because he's just been stranded, because our midfield is broken.

Rafa saw the temporary need for a plan B, anti football option with Crouch, who strangely enough isn't actually that great at that sort of football. Well, maybe we're back there again for a bit.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38499.msg1039807#msg1039807 date=1264064362]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=38499.msg1038618#msg1038618 date=1263987906]
Considering how shit our wing play is at the moment, no I wouldnt do a straight swap. I want somebody more direct. A bit of pace about them. Long ball overload is the last thing we need. Nemeth would be a good option even. Even take a risk on fucking Beckford.
[/quote]

I have to take issue with one thing, a long ball outlet sadly could have helped us quite a bit this season. Our midfield should be better, we shouldn't need it, and it's a step backwards, but it'd have won us more points I think.

We've dropped a lot of points with Torres playing, who is an unparalleled direct pacy striker, because he's just been stranded, because our midfield is broken.

Rafa saw the temporary need for a plan B, anti football option with Crouch, who strangely enough isn't actually that great at that sort of football. Well, maybe we're back there again for a bit.
[/quote]

Fair point Farky. I thought that at times last night we took the pressure off by not taking any risks in our own half (bar stupid almost goal) and passing it back when nothing was on, just maintaining possession, and then hitting it long when under pressure at the back. We're not particularly passing well anyway, giving away cheap goals etc, so it was good to see us cutting out trying to play our way out of our own box, which would usually lead to mistakes and corners being given away, etc.

 

[localny]

It's the same old deal really - spending 12M on someone average and then 12M on someone else average...when we should be splashing 25 on someone decent..

Having said that, we have to move for someone...

I'd prefer Crouch or Keane though - and I still dream of Defoe..

 

[picallili]

[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=38499.msg1039790#msg1039790 date=1264063099]
A Mirror story from BBC's roundup. The Shite also says Babel has changed his mind about moving to Brum.

Liverpool and Sunderland agree Kenwyne Jones tax dodge - Exclusive
Published 23:00 20/01/10 By James Nursey
(2)Recommend (1)

Liverpool's move for Kenwyne Jones is set to include a clever tax break.

Sunderland are in negotiations to sell their Trinidad & Tobago striker to the Anfield club in a £12million transfer.

But Jones, 25, is likely to move on loan initially, ahead of a guaranteed permanent transfer in the summer.

This enables both clubs to carry the impact of the transfer on their balance sheets into the next tax year which begins in April.

West Brom have pioneered this type of transfer with the sales of Tomasz Kuszczak, Curtis Davies and Jonathan Greening to Manchester United, Aston Villa and Fulham respectively.

All three went on initial loan deals ahead of permanent transfers in the next tax year.

[/quote]

Do people actually get paid to write this stuff?

I doubt a deal will happen now but if it does I couldn't care less how much he costs. It's difficult to put a genuine price on players these days.

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=localny link=topic=38499.msg1040125#msg1040125 date=1264086703]
It's the same old deal really - spending 12M on someone average and then 12M on someone else average...when we should be splashing 25 on someone decent..

[/quote]

yep.

but i'm not sure we could keep another 'star' happy behind torres. other clubs manage it but i have a feeling we couldn't.

 

[picallili]

[quote author=localny link=topic=38499.msg1040125#msg1040125 date=1264086703]
It's the same old deal really - spending 12M on someone average and then 12M on someone else average...when we should be splashing 25 on someone decent..
[/quote]

What, like Keane?

Or Berbatov?

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=picallili link=topic=38499.msg1040130#msg1040130 date=1264087058]
[quote author=localny link=topic=38499.msg1040125#msg1040125 date=1264086703]
It's the same old deal really - spending 12M on someone average and then 12M on someone else average...when we should be splashing 25 on someone decent..
[/quote]

What, like Keane?

Or Berbatov?
[/quote]

Do you want Kenwyne Jones as a Liverpool player ?

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=38499.msg1040129#msg1040129 date=1264086996]
[quote author=localny link=topic=38499.msg1040125#msg1040125 date=1264086703]
It's the same old deal really - spending 12M on someone average and then 12M on someone else average...when we should be splashing 25 on someone decent..

[/quote]

yep.

but i'm not sure we could keep another 'star' happy behind torres. other clubs manage it but i have a feeling we couldn't.
[/quote]

read again, pleas edit that. Liverpool couldn't have more than 2 stars? Like David Silva wouldn't be great. Lets see what Rafa Benitez does in the next 3 to 4 years with free signings if he is here. He gets the most of them people seem to want to play with him if they have a purely professional manner, and we have Torres and Gerrard. We need 5 more stars really.

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38499.msg1040149#msg1040149 date=1264087940]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=38499.msg1040129#msg1040129 date=1264086996]
[quote author=localny link=topic=38499.msg1040125#msg1040125 date=1264086703]
It's the same old deal really - spending 12M on someone average and then 12M on someone else average...when we should be splashing 25 on someone decent..

[/quote]

yep.

but i'm not sure we could keep another 'star' happy behind torres. other clubs manage it but i have a feeling we couldn't.
[/quote]

read again, pleas edit that. Liverpool couldn't have more than 2 stars? Like David Silva wouldn't be great. Lets see what Rafa Benitez does in the next 3 to 4 years with free signings if he is here. He gets the most we have Torres we have Gerrard. We need 5 more stars really.
[/quote]

tut. silva would not be a back up striker.

 

[MaBigTip]

I beg to differ, both Silva and Mata play back up striker A la Arshavin. Goals from everywhere is so necessary. Lets strengthen weak positions and versatie players cause we don't have the money.

 

[picallili]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38499.msg1040139#msg1040139 date=1264087485]
[quote author=picallili link=topic=38499.msg1040130#msg1040130 date=1264087058]
[quote author=localny link=topic=38499.msg1040125#msg1040125 date=1264086703]
It's the same old deal really - spending 12M on someone average and then 12M on someone else average...when we should be splashing 25 on someone decent..
[/quote]

What, like Keane?

Or Berbatov?
[/quote]

Do you want Kenwyne Jones as a Liverpool player ?
[/quote]

Carlton Cole would be my first choice, but yes. Who else can you think of in our price range, for our needs, who would be willing to come here and be an understudy to the best striker in Europe?

It's not about just buying every flavour of the month expensive name and hoping they click, it's about building a system and philosophy which allows you to unearth and nurture cheaper talent. Unfortunately, Benitez is the ultimate cheque book manager.

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38499.msg1040159#msg1040159 date=1264088196]
I beg to differ, both Silva and Mata play back up striker A la Arshavin. Goals from everywhere is so necessary. Lets strengthen weak positions and versatie players cause we don't have the money.
[/quote]

i'd much rather we bought silva but rafa is going to buy a 'big man' who can lead the line.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=38499.msg1040163#msg1040163 date=1264088334]
i'd much rather we bought silva but rafa is going to buy a 'big man' who can lead the line.
[/quote]

I'm not sure about that. When we had Crouch, his presence up front encouraged the midfield to hoof the ball to him as an easy alternative to good passing play.

I like Crouch and I wondered whether this was the reason that Rafa decided to sell him.

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=38499.msg1040171#msg1040171 date=1264088656]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=38499.msg1040163#msg1040163 date=1264088334]
i'd much rather we bought silva but rafa is going to buy a 'big man' who can lead the line.
[/quote]

I'm not sure about that. When we had Crouch, his presence up front encouraged the midfield to hoof the ball to him as an easy alternative to good passing play.

I like Crouch and I wondered whether this was the reason that Rafa decided to sell him.
[/quote]

rafa sold him 'cos he wanted to leave. rafa's tried to bring in a new 'big man' since.

 

[Squiggles]

Sometimes buying a big man to hoof it too can be dangerous tactic, as it becomes the easy option and teams forget how to play. But I don't mind in this case. We need a decent striker up top and whilst I would have preferred Bent at 13M in the summer, Jones is far from a bad option.

People will say 'stopgap signing' and fair enough. But that doesn't wash with me when we've only only got one decent forward. Like Crouch he'll be here for 3-4 years minimum and I think will prove his worth to us.

 

[picallili]

I remember us playing some really good stuff with Crouch up top. The 'hoof' stuff is just lazy internet and media bollocks that becomes fact. I like the option of a target man, mainly because we're piss poor at set pieces, and because they take up the focus of central defenders, which allows the likes of Torres to pick up the scraps.

 

[ibromurph]

Right now, Jones is worth 9m max. I hope we don't pay more for him, otherwise if he doesn't work out we'll end up having to shift him for 7m (and at an almost 50% loss) if the 13m fee is to be believed.

 

[Squiggles]

Crouch wanted to leave because Rafa rarely played him. He didn't even get much opportunity as a sub.

I understand Torres is number one and so did Peter, but his goal-scoring record meant he deserved far better treatment than he actually received. Losing these sort of players has cost us our squad depth. It's basic squad management and Rafa has been poor with it in recent years.

 

[picallili]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38499.msg1040187#msg1040187 date=1264089067]
Right now, Jones is worth 9m max.
[/quote]

How do people come up with these exact figures? Barmy.

The Mail are still convinced this is happening and are saying we were hoping to have a deal sorted before last nights game but it will now be the end of the week.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=picallili link=topic=38499.msg1040184#msg1040184 date=1264089030]
The 'hoof' stuff is just lazy internet and media bollocks that becomes fact.
[/quote]

I saw it happening before my eyes at many games!! 🙂

 

[doctor_mac]

I really don't want Jones. This would nearly (but not quite) be as bad as resigning Heskey.

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38499.msg1040205#msg1040205 date=1264089488]
I really don't want Jones. This would nearly (but not quite) be as bad as resigning Heskey.
[/quote]

i'm going off the idea rapidly.

 

[Paddy]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38499.msg1040205#msg1040205 date=1264089488]
I really don't want Jones. This would nearly (but not quite) be as bad as resigning Heskey.
[/quote]

It is cuz he black??

 

[doctor_mac]

I want some foreigner who does stepovers and has a fucking better utube compilation than that fucking disgrace.














*waits with rod*