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it's as simple as this. . .

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[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38822.msg1050786#msg1050786 date=1265551374]
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38822.msg1050766#msg1050766 date=1265550081]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38822.msg1050751#msg1050751 date=1265549166]
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38822.msg1050745#msg1050745 date=1265548509]
You'd take a straight swap? Kuyt and Giggs?
[/quote]

Over one season, yes. I think Torres and Gerrard's goal count would go up immediately with Giggs in our side.

I'd certainly take it for Valencia this year, and if he continues his recent 5 game form for the future, I'd take Nani* too (he's starting to look ominously good and could prove to be a testament to manager showing faith/patience in a player - see Babel).

*Though on Nani, it'd have to be Fergie managing him so perhaps he's not suited for our side.
[/quote]
Straight swap I said!

What Fergie has done to Nani has not been to different to Rafa's treatment of Babel.

The difference is Nani has talent. Babel is just a big, black, fast piece of rapping poo.
[/quote]

I disagree when you say "what Fergie has done to Nani is no different to Rafa's treatment of Babel".

Don't get me wrong, you might just be right on the whole "Babel is just a big, black, fast piece of rapping poo." and he may have never had the potential to be a top player anyway. I just don't think he was given the same chance.

I think Spidey made the point before, Fergie plays players dependant on form. Only a couple of elite players (Ferdinand/Ronaldo/Rooney) are given the 'untouchable' status. But the likes of Carrick, Valencia, Nani, even nowadays Giggs and Scholes have to earn the right to be in the side. When they're off form, they're taken out of the side (and someone else who's been chomping at the bit is drafted in). If that player plays well, he stays there.. and the ousted player is now the one eagerly awaiting his chance to get back in the side. That builds a hungry squad (is it any wonder they keep winning titles.. you'd think a player like Giggs would be bored of it by now).. they have plays all eager to play well and keep their position.

We don't have that in our side. Perhaps you can argue that's down to the strength our squad, but that'd be a lazy excuse. Players like Yossi and Ryan have had good games only to be drafted our of the squad the following week. After a year or two of that, a young player like Ryan just isn't motivated to put in a hard shift. Why would he? He knows he'll be on the bench the following game. Management like that builds doesn't build a hungry squad, or a player looking to prove himself.

Nani and Babel have had it different.


[/quote]

fucking top post
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38822.msg1050769#msg1050769 date=1265550325]
I think it's fairly obvious that those who are more vocal in their criticism of Kuyt prefer technique and pace over endeavour. And what of it? Two of the Premierships most successful managers have shown that successful teams can be built around these attributes.
[/quote]

This is the view point that's really got me annoyed on this thread, no offence.

Regards pace, I think people are really having a big wood/trees issue here. Yes we need pace, but there's absolutely no reason why Kuyt couldn't compliment that. People are pointing the finger at our third best attacker, probably the highest scoring player in his position in the league, regardless of his versatility and 'where the percentage of goals come from'.

It's all bollocks really. Take issue with the gaffa's reluctance to buy pace, sure, but not every player in the side has to burn rubber, that's just a ridiculous view point. If we had a top class, quick, tricky winger on the left handside, I doubt there'd be much of an issue over Kuyt.

The fact of the matter is, he's statistically one of the best wide players in the league, he'd get into the other big sides teams, saying he wouldn't is even more ridiculous, as some have said on this thread and others. I read an interview with John Terry and while back and he said that he thinks Kuyt is a top player and said he is a 'nightmare' to play against. That's one of the best defenders around, who's had to play against him numerous times, and who's played against some of the best attackers in the World.

"those who are more vocal in their criticism of Kuyt prefer technique and pace over endeavour. And what of it?". There's nothing of it, like I said, if we had pace elsewhere it wouldn't even be an issue, we've got enough problems in the side, so like I said, some people are really struggling to differentiate between the wood and the trees on this issue.

The way some people talk, I swear they've got their heads burried in Football Manager land. Arsenal play with good fluent passing and movement, it's not all about pace, ditto United. There's no argument regards our general lack of pace, especially without Torres, but saying United and Arsenal's game is based on pace is just myopic and well wide of the mark, it may be an element of their play and one of their many facets, but it's not what their game is exclusively built on. Our main issue, for me anyway, is our lack of movement on and off the ball, that's not really a pace issue, you don't have to have a team of eleven Cisse's to be able to pass and move.
 
Neil I dont mean 'match changers' as in coming off the bench to win a game. I mean players who if they're not in the side mean the difference between winning & losing. Hence Reina, Torres & Gerrard.

Ibromurph, good post mate.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050802#msg1050802 date=1265552461]
This is the view point that's really got me annoyed on this thread, no offence.

Regards pace, I think people are really having a big wood/trees issue here. Yes we need pace, but there's absolutely no reason why Kuyt couldn't compliment that. People are pointing the finger at our third best attacker, probably the highest scoring player in his position in the league, regardless of his versatility and 'where the percentage of goals come from'.

It's all bollocks really. Take issue with the gaffa's reluctance to buy pace, sure, but not every player in the side has to burn rubber, that's just a ridiculous view point. If we had a top class, quick, tricky winger on the left handside, I doubt there'd be much of an issue over Kuyt.

The fact of the matter is, he's statistically one of the best wide players in the league, he'd get into the other big sides teams, saying he wouldn't is even more ridiculous, as some have said on this thread and others. I read an interview with John Terry and while back and he said that he thinks Kuyt is a top player and said he is a 'nightmare' to play against. That's one of the best defenders around, who's had to play against him numerous times, and who's played against some of the best attackers in the World.

"those who are more vocal in their criticism of Kuyt prefer technique and pace over endeavour. And what of it?". There's nothing of it, like I said, if we had pace elsewhere it wouldn't even be an issue, we've got enough problems in the side, so like I said, some people are really struggling to differentiate between the wood and the trees on this issue.

The way some people talk, I swear they've got their heads burried in Football Manager land. Arsenal play with good fluent passing and movement, it's not all about pace, ditto United. There's no argument regards our general lack of pace, especially without Torres, but saying United and Arsenal's game is based on pace is just myopic and well wide of the mark, it may be an element of their play and one of their many facets, but it's not what their game is exclusively built on. Our main issue, for me anyway, is our lack of movement on and off the ball, that's not really a pace issue, you don't have to have a team of eleven Cisse's to be able to pass and move.
[/quote]

Mark, I think it's you that's having a wood/trees issue here. Either that or you're having withdrawal symptoms from not having a charity case to defend on this board (no offence 🙂).

Firstly, you take my quote about pace and technique and then go on a long rant about pace. And how Arsenal's game isn't just about pace. You're right Mark, it's not. It's about technique as well. I did mention it.

Secondly, and I was hoping we'd get to this just so we can round the issue off - "This is the view point that's really got me annoyed on this thread". It's your viewpoint that is causing the arguments on this issue. It's true. In my post I specifically made a point of saying that he shouldn't be dropped permanently or sold and yet the sheer mention of the possibility that we could bring in some competition for Kuyt or that at times he doesn't deserve his spot sparks outrage.

So in reality, we've had people talking about buying pace for left already, we've had people talking about buying pace for the squad as well (not necessarily to replace Kuyt), but it doesn't matter... it's a case of "how dare anyone question Kuyts place in the team!". Well, there are times when I do, I'm sorry if that offends you. He does have some pretty dreadful slumps and there are times when I think we'd be better off using another option - not necessarily a decision made on pace or lack thereof.

Example: earlier this season, Yossi (who also works very hard) was probably our third best attacker, but still struggled to get a look in on the right ahead of Kuyt who should've been moved (we couldn't really drop him for lack of options).

And lastly, don't lower yourself to the Champ remarks, eh?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050802#msg1050802 date=1265552461]
Arsenal play with good fluent passing and movement, it's not all about pace, ditto United. There's no argument regards our general lack of pace, especially without Torres, but saying United and Arsenal's game is based on pace.
[/quote]

What do all their attacking players have though? The ability to control the ball, something Dirk struggles with ... When you can control the ball and play quick, one touch passes - the pace part becomes something that only adds to the effectiveness of the system.
 
Keni, regards the quote I wasn't directing it at you, I know you were pointing out a general opinion.

Regards the wood/trees, I just think there are bigger issues in the side and the system, and despite what's being intimated on this thread, I don't think Kuyt is necessarily symptomatic of that, his technique isn't particularly bad anyway, sure he's had to work on it (and he clearly has) and his first touch is often hit and miss, but he's not a 'horrible footballer' or a donkey either by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah he works tirelessly, and that's one of his biggest assets, but the suggestion that he's not a good 'footballer' is just insulting to the guy, and again this isn't levelled at you, just some of the opinions that fly around on here. Nor am I saying that he doesn't need competition, or that we don't need a different option outwide, but isn't that true of more or less the whole team? Give or take Gerrard, Torres and Reina? Every top side has their World Class bracket players, and then beyond that they have their quality in terms of balance and different assets that compliment one another. It would be brilliant to have an Arshavin, or a Pires style player, but games like yesterdays show just how important a player of Kuyt's ilk is, and that's just as valuable and important as your flashy, quick, technically excellent attacker.

My issue isn't with people questioning his role when he's under par, it's the suggestion that he's inconsistent that's really got my back up on this, by and large (despite over exaggerated 'poor spell' this season) he's one of the most consistent attackers in the league. The wood/trees thing was with regard to the team's issues, I don't think alot of the blame can laid with Kuyt, or Yossi for that matter.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38822.msg1050809#msg1050809 date=1265553630]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050802#msg1050802 date=1265552461]
Arsenal play with good fluent passing and movement, it's not all about pace, ditto United. There's no argument regards our general lack of pace, especially without Torres, but saying United and Arsenal's game is based on pace.
[/quote]

What do all their attacking players have though? The ability to control the ball, something Dirk struggles with ... When you can control the ball and play quick, one touch passes - the pace part becomes something that only adds to the effectiveness of the system.
[/quote]

His control can be poor, but it can also be very good, whatever you think of his technique, ultimately he gets the goals and plays a role in many of the goals we score. The attack doesn't revolve around Kuyt, like I said ideally we'd have more pace in other area's to compliment or compensate for his lack of it, just as his industry and sheer will would compliment the initiative of someone like Torres, or this top quality wide player we're all striving for.

Saying he 'struggles with controlling the ball', is just more exaggeration, if he's really that bad at it he wouldn't be an effective attacker who scores goals in big games and against the best sides, would he?

What really confuses me further regarding your viewpoint on this whole technique issue is your constant backing of someone like Babel who really does have poor technique and a terrible first touch. Is it because he's quick? Because that just proves the whole point really.
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=38822.msg1050291#msg1050291 date=1265472147]
He's been utterly clueless for the first half of this season (as was the case last season until the Madrid game).

He's fine for a team with UEFA aspirations but he wouldn't get into any of the Scum, Arse or Chav sides.

[/quote]

Do you know what? You're worse than DB with your continual pompous remarks about the team, its players and its manager. If there's anything you do like about it be sure to tell us. Or not.
 
Ah, well I was reading some of this thread yesterday and thinking the same with regards to some posts.

I don't think he's really inconsistent from game to game either. When he's good, he's good, but when he's in one of his slumps, the basics seem to get away from him as well and it's undeniably frustrating to watch. He's just one of those players.

To be honest though, I think part of the problem may be down to definitions. I can't remember who has been talking about a "footballer", but I bet it was simply meant to imply a "technical player" and not meant to denigrate Kuyt's abilities - not in this thread at least. People often use the phrase "proper footballer" to get at this sort of thing.

Anyways, yeah, in the grand scheme of things Kuyt is the least of our worries right now. Agreed. Funnily, it's the Gerrard-Torres axis that presents us with the most difficult dilemma in the summer.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050816#msg1050816 date=1265554560]
1. Saying he 'struggles with controlling the ball', is just more exaggeration, if he's really that bad at it he wouldn't be an effective attacker who scores goals in big games and against the best sides, would he?

2. What really confuses me further regarding your viewpoint on this whole technique issue is your constant backing of someone like Babel who really does have poor technique and a terrible first touch. Is it because he's quick? Because that just proves the whole point really.
[/quote]

1. I was obviously just making the point with 'strong language' - think of it how you've responded to Keni, or how Ryan started this thread with his pathetic stance, "blah blah no one knows football if they don't think Kuyt is the Messiah"

2. You must have missed my thread a few months ago ... I'm long off the Babel fan club - I thought he could develop into a player with the right coaching because I used to watch him for Ajax and he never struggled as badly as he did here. Oh well, I was wrong. I'm comfortable enough admitting that too (Pity for Liverpool obviously).
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050802#msg1050802 date=1265552461]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38822.msg1050769#msg1050769 date=1265550325]
I think it's fairly obvious that those who are more vocal in their criticism of Kuyt prefer technique and pace over endeavour. And what of it? Two of the Premierships most successful managers have shown that successful teams can be built around these attributes.
[/quote]

This is the view point that's really got me annoyed on this thread, no offence.

Regards pace, I think people are really having a big wood/trees issue here. Yes we need pace, but there's absolutely no reason why Kuyt couldn't compliment that. People are pointing the finger at our third best attacker, probably the highest scoring player in his position in the league, regardless of his versatility and 'where the percentage of goals come from'.

It's all bollocks really. Take issue with the gaffa's reluctance to buy pace, sure, but not every player in the side has to burn rubber, that's just a ridiculous view point. If we had a top class, quick, tricky winger on the left handside, I doubt there'd be much of an issue over Kuyt.

The fact of the matter is, he's statistically one of the best wide players in the league, he'd get into the other big sides teams, saying he wouldn't is even more ridiculous, as some have said on this thread and others. I read an interview with John Terry and while back and he said that he thinks Kuyt is a top player and said he is a 'nightmare' to play against. That's one of the best defenders around, who's had to play against him numerous times, and who's played against some of the best attackers in the World.

"those who are more vocal in their criticism of Kuyt prefer technique and pace over endeavour. And what of it?". There's nothing of it, like I said, if we had pace elsewhere it wouldn't even be an issue, we've got enough problems in the side, so like I said, some people are really struggling to differentiate between the wood and the trees on this issue.

The way some people talk, I swear they've got their heads burried in Football Manager land. Arsenal play with good fluent passing and movement, it's not all about pace, ditto United. There's no argument regards our general lack of pace, especially without Torres, but saying United and Arsenal's game is based on pace is just myopic and well wide of the mark, it may be an element of their play and one of their many facets, but it's not what their game is exclusively built on. Our main issue, for me anyway, is our lack of movement on and off the ball, that's not really a pace issue, you don't have to have a team of eleven Cisse's to be able to pass and move.
[/quote]
Very good post Mark.

In my infamous 'We are re-inveting football'-thread I highlighted the sheer workmanship and never-asy-attitude from Kuyt as one of the reasons to our great run last year. A player like Kuyt (and Benayoun too for that matter) creates space and room for players like Gerrard and Torres to roam without ever trying to steel the limelight.

Kuyts almost insane devotion is not something that money can buy and seen in that light he's indispensable to our club and easily one of the best, most underrated players for the past Seasons.

*Don't get me wrong I can be extremely underwhelmed with him at times and for most part of this Season he's been under par (as the rest) but now he's once again showing his true colors. He's a red through and through and one of our most important players.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38822.msg1050821#msg1050821 date=1265555065]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050816#msg1050816 date=1265554560]
1. Saying he 'struggles with controlling the ball', is just more exaggeration, if he's really that bad at it he wouldn't be an effective attacker who scores goals in big games and against the best sides, would he?

2. What really confuses me further regarding your viewpoint on this whole technique issue is your constant backing of someone like Babel who really does have poor technique and a terrible first touch. Is it because he's quick? Because that just proves the whole point really.
[/quote]

1. I was obviously just making the point with 'strong language' - think of it how you've responded to Keni, or how Ryan started this thread with his pathetic stance, "blah blah no one knows football if they don't think Kuyt is the Messiah"

2. You must have missed my thread a few months ago ... I'm long off the Babel fan club - I thought he could develop into a player with the right coaching because I used to watch him for Ajax and he never struggled as badly as he did here. Oh well, I was wrong. I'm comfortable enough admitting that too (Pity for Liverpool obviously).

[/quote]

I'm still a bit torn over Babel, and I think that just shows how much he's 'stood still' at Liverpool. I just meant regards pace, that seems his biggest and only asset (other than the ability to occasionally cleanly strike the ball with power and accuracy), technically he's severely lacking, yet he has the physical assets and occasionally shows good technique, so it's as though it's an intelligence thing. He certainly lacks the mentality in terms of intelligence and overall confidence, and his off the field antics just seem to compound that theory.

Kuyt on the other hand seems to have good game intelligence, even if he does sometimes struggle with the technical side of things, he's worked on it and you can see he at least has the awareness and actually thinks about what he's going to do. And again, off the field his character seems and extension of that.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050816#msg1050816 date=1265554560]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38822.msg1050809#msg1050809 date=1265553630]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050802#msg1050802 date=1265552461]
Arsenal play with good fluent passing and movement, it's not all about pace, ditto United. There's no argument regards our general lack of pace, especially without Torres, but saying United and Arsenal's game is based on pace.
[/quote]

What do all their attacking players have though? The ability to control the ball, something Dirk struggles with ... When you can control the ball and play quick, one touch passes - the pace part becomes something that only adds to the effectiveness of the system.
[/quote]

His control can be poor, but it can also be very good, whatever you think of his technique, ultimately he gets the goals and plays a role in many of the goals we score. The attack doesn't revolve around Kuyt, like I said ideally we'd have more pace in other area's to compliment or compensate for his lack of it, just as his industry and sheer will would compliment the initiative of someone like Torres, or this top quality wide player we're all striving for.

Saying he 'struggles with controlling the ball', is just more exaggeration, if he's really that bad at it he wouldn't be an effective attacker who scores goals in big games and against the best sides, would he?

What really confuses me further regarding your viewpoint on this whole technique issue is your constant backing of someone like Babel who really does have poor technique and a terrible first touch. Is it because he's quick? Because that just proves the whole point really.
[/quote]

mark, why have you brought pace into this arguement? who is talking about pace? certainy not me. my (can't talk for anyone else) point is kuyt is a good player not a great player but he is afforded game after game after game regrdless. he has achieved 'untouchable' status despite form.

my point is I read the praise kuyt gets 'oh, if you don't rate kuyt you're clueless' when kuyt is in red hot form but what about the weeks (yes, WEEKS) of piss poor form where we lose points hand over fist as rafa simpy refuses to drop him 'oh, but the repacements aren't good enough' well they never WILL be good enough if they are given scraps to prove their ability and are asked to maintain their optimisism and drive despite a player stinking the place out getting games.

to tell the truth my problem isn't with kuyt as kuyt can't pick himself, my problem is rafa who spends a fortune assembling a squad and then proceeds to use 50% of it.
it GH all over again, you have heskey another honest worker who was moved out of position rather than dropped and played regardless of form, you have players like fowler, baros, pongolle who couldn't budge him when he is in the shitest form ever so what chance do they have when he actually did achieve a run of form.

I have no problem whatsoever with the truly world torres being played regardless of form because of what he can achieve out of absolutely nothing but when a SQAUD player (thats exactly what kuyt is) hits a slump (every fucking season) he should be dropped, simple as fucking that. end of fucking story.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050825#msg1050825 date=1265555803]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38822.msg1050821#msg1050821 date=1265555065]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38822.msg1050816#msg1050816 date=1265554560]
1. Saying he 'struggles with controlling the ball', is just more exaggeration, if he's really that bad at it he wouldn't be an effective attacker who scores goals in big games and against the best sides, would he?

2. What really confuses me further regarding your viewpoint on this whole technique issue is your constant backing of someone like Babel who really does have poor technique and a terrible first touch. Is it because he's quick? Because that just proves the whole point really.
[/quote]

1. I was obviously just making the point with 'strong language' - think of it how you've responded to Keni, or how Ryan started this thread with his pathetic stance, "blah blah no one knows football if they don't think Kuyt is the Messiah"

2. You must have missed my thread a few months ago ... I'm long off the Babel fan club - I thought he could develop into a player with the right coaching because I used to watch him for Ajax and he never struggled as badly as he did here. Oh well, I was wrong. I'm comfortable enough admitting that too (Pity for Liverpool obviously).

[/quote]

I'm still a bit torn over Babel, and I think that just shows how much he's 'stood still' at Liverpool. I just meant regards pace, that seems his biggest and only asset (other than the ability to occasionally cleanly strike the ball with power and accuracy), technically he's severely lacking, yet he has the physical assets and occasionally shows good technique, so it's as though it's an intelligence thing. He certainly lacks the mentality in terms of intelligence and overall confidence, and his off the field antics just seem to compound that theory.

Kuyt on the other hand seems to have good game intelligence, even if he does sometimes struggle with the technical side of things, he's worked on it and you can see he at least has the awareness and actually thinks about what he's going to do. And again, off the field his character seems and extension of that.
[/quote]

So, Babel + Kuyt = world class player? 🙂
 
Let's leave the "black" part out when discussing Babel, please Mike et al. It's got f$%! all to do with anything.
 
simple philosophies in football that will take you far

a) 3 points is 3 points
beat manu = 3 points
beat everton = 3 points
beat wolves = 3 points
I could list the entire league but you get the point

b) when a player is in a slump drop them
you'd think, 'like DUH' but how often does it actually happen in our team?

c) if you are drawing the game better to gamble that point in the search of all 3 points
debateable. but I think over the course of a season you will earn more points then playing it safe.

d) a good player who delivers high level for most of the season is better than an excellent player who delivers a brilliant level for some of the season.
debateable.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38822.msg1050768#msg1050768 date=1265550262]
By the way, I dp take Portly's point. It is a valid one. But equally we have enough grafters in midfield (in Lucas and Mascher) that *I think* we need more talent out there. Or at least better talents than we currently do have. Maybe you disagree Portly?
[/quote]

I completely agree we are desperately lacking flair in midfield, particularly with Yossi out. I love Mascherano and think he is one of our handful of star players, but I hate if when Rafa plays Lucas alongside him, because the forwards see so little of the ball.

Maybe Aquilani will supply some of that flair - he has had some promising games but he is still finding his feet in the Premiership.
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=38822.msg1050832#msg1050832 date=1265556778]
Let's leave the "black" part out when discussing Babel, please Mike et al. It's got f$%! all to do with anything.
[/quote]

Yup.

NOt surprised tho.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38822.msg1050838#msg1050838 date=1265558294]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=38822.msg1050832#msg1050832 date=1265556778]
Let's leave the "black" part out when discussing Babel, please Mike et al. It's got f$%! all to do with anything.
[/quote]

Yup.

NOt surprised tho.
[/quote]

Did I miss something, but who mentioned anything about him being black? Or have I just been whooshed?!
 
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38822.msg1050766#msg1050766 date=1265550081]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38822.msg1050751#msg1050751 date=1265549166]
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38822.msg1050745#msg1050745 date=1265548509]
You'd take a straight swap? Kuyt and Giggs?
[/quote]

Over one season, yes. I think Torres and Gerrard's goal count would go up immediately with Giggs in our side.

I'd certainly take it for Valencia this year, and if he continues his recent 5 game form for the future, I'd take Nani* too (he's starting to look ominously good and could prove to be a testament to manager showing faith/patience in a player - see Babel).

*Though on Nani, it'd have to be Fergie managing him so perhaps he's not suited for our side.
[/quote]
Straight swap I said!

What Fergie has done to Nani has not been to different to Rafa's treatment of Babel.

The difference is Nani has talent. [size=12pt]Babel is just a big, black, fast piece of rapping poo[/size].
[/quote]
 
A day and a half later, and I'm still making no apologies for it... If you don't rate Dirk Kuyt, you know nothing about football.

Long before he scored the winner on Saturday I was extolling his virtues. In the first half he won several vital headers in our own box to avert the danger. Incidentally, 2 minutes after he scored the winner he was at our own back post clearing a Donovan cross from 2 yards out. It's these things that matter. The small things that don't count on a stat sheet. The actual 1% efforts that add up and make a difference. 'Cept most people don't notice them, because they're too busy banging on about his allegedly "shit first touch". Here's one for 10 - Aquilani, Maxi, Riera, Benayoun - Every single one of them has a better first touch than Dirk, probably always will. Not one of them even comes close to getting on a teamsheet ahead of him though.

Why? Cos he scores vital goals? Well, there's that. Cos he gets double figures from the wing every year in a League where barely more than a handful of others do? There's that too. Cos he's the best embodiment of a professional footballer we've got? Aye.

Actually, it's everything. It's scoring at one end, and 2 minutes later clearing the ball off our own line. It's the non-stop workrate, that for some disgusting reason has become a stick to beat him with. It's the example he sets to all young players coming through the club. It's the attitude to play in any position for the side whilst several of his teammates flounce around at the mere suggestion. It's playing in Carling Cup fixtures while your celebrated teammates are given a week off. It's being the last player off the ground applauding the fans regardless of the result.

I find it incredulous that people don't rate him.

I'm not even of the opinion that he was "shit" for parts of this season. why was he, cos he wasn't scoring? Is that the barometer to judge him, goals? He's gone 6 games without a goal ergo he's plsying shite. By the way, is there a reason why he's being singled out during a spell when fucking everyone was playing badly?Fucking nonsense. Even when he's not scoring, when he's having a shite night, he still offers enough to the team to merit his inclusion. How many invisible performances do we see from some of our starting 11? That accusation is never levelled at Kuyt. Even if he's offering nothing from an attacking perspective, he's covering the arse of whatever full-back is behind him. Remeber the arse-raping Insua got in Fiorentina, because Benayoun the supposed left-winger left him horribly exposed? (I'm not singling Benayoun out here, I could have chosen pretty much anyone). The importance of being able to offer not just something, but everything at both ends of the pitch cannot be understated. Hence why Aquilani's sitting on the bench most weeks.

Some of the utterances put forward in this thread are remarkable. What point are you trying to make, that he was poor for a spell? Brilliant, give yourself a hand.

He's one of the best, most important players in our side, and plays every single week for a very good reason. Some of you need to wake the fuck up.

"Shit first touch" indeed.
 
Agreed Ryan. And I was the first to hint at Kuyt being "undroppable" because of these things that Ryan mentions he brings to the team. That's for what Le Tall kept going on about.
 
I think Ryan's point about being the embodiment of the professional footballer is salient.

Even in how he celebrates goals, he generates such good team spirit.

He goes to Gerrard, celebrates his delivery, he went to Aquilani, held up two fingers for two assists. He encourages everyone. It's infectious.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38822.msg1050978#msg1050978 date=1265582456]
I think Ryan's point about being the embodiment of the professional footballer is salient.

Even in how he celebrates goals, he generates such good team spirit.

He goes to Gerrard, celebrates his delivery, he went to Aquilani, held up two fingers for two assists. He encourages everyone. It's infectious.
[/quote]
Fernando_Torres_280_916192a.jpg


Look at him, just LOOK AT HIM !


I don't know if I've made it clear in this thread but, I love Dirk Kuyt.
 
Can't be arsed reading the whole thread but I'd just like to say Kuyt is ace. If the rest of our team had the same passion, energy and commitment we'd be hard to beat anytime. Never lets his head drop and plays through periods of being poor without hiding. He's a fucking credit to himself.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=38822.msg1050983#msg1050983 date=1265582849]
Look at him, just LOOK AT HIM !
[/quote]

Reminds me of Brokeback Mountain.
 
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