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Hull / Season post-mortem

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Part of our fans group just don't expect 1 win in 11 which was against a League 2 side whilst we watch the same old shite...same pattern of play, same favourtism to certain players when they're obviously not performing and the same old mistakes at the back.

Klopp was rightly lauded and showered with praise in the opening half of the season but you have to take the rough with the smooth...he'll know that more than anyone.

Favouritism is a loaded word and don't think it's appropriate in this case. It's not like our bench is brimming with quality while less deserving ones play. The only real argument one can make about yesterday's selection was Wijnaldum vs Can. If you want to say that maybe Klopp showed too much trust in certain players and should have brought reinforcements in January, then maybe you have a point, but that's not favouritism as I understand it.
 
Guess we can only hope that this string of results has been enough for Klopp to finally acknowledge that he's not working with much. If he's still looking at that shower of a squad and thinking we've been unlucky, then that's the biggest problem we've got.

Your buddy Divock ain't helping him much at the min either. Proving to be very much the Belgian Emile Heskey...well bar the first season when Big Emile tore it up.
 
So after these 5-6 weeks Klopp suddenly isnt a World class manager? Christ, you'd think parts of our fan group expect failure.

Anyway, Burnley got a pen for the exact same handball on Prödl that Robertson got away with. Poor from Mason.

Mason's a prat ordinarily but, if the other incident was exactly the same, it may well have been the other referee who got it wrong. I asked a mate of mine who's refereed at local level for years what the ruling is nowadays. He said the main way refs have been told to judge whether a handball was intentional or not (and it has to be intentional for a foul to be committed) is whether the arm/hand is in an unnatural position. By that criterion I don't see how Mason could have penalised Robertson yesterday.
 
I can't believe you mean we player worse than Hull? We played ok in second half but there is a Orange and Black Wall inside their box and we need to find a way through it...
In all fairness to Hull they did not park the bus. Its an excuse we are using way too frequent now to hide the simple fact we are shite.
 
The trust has gone. Klopp now can't trust these players. He knows they can come back and play some good games, but he also knows they can and almost certainly will slump like this again. The only way they can confound this criticism is by going on a long run of consistently high class performances between now and the end of the season. I doubt many fans believe they'll do so. But the ones who don't show any potential for overcoming this boom and bust form need to leave in the summer.
 
I've never been a football manager, so I'm guessing here, but when everyone is playing really well, I bet its piss easy. When they're not, you earn your corn. Klopp has done fuck all to address this hideous run apart from give Lucas a game (sackable in itself), alternate midfielders but keep the same game plan and ask Firmino to move 10 inches to the left. Genius.
 
The trust has gone. Klopp now can't trust these players. He knows they can come back and play some good games, but he also knows they can and almost certainly will slump like this again. The only way they can confound this criticism is by going on a long run of consistently high class performances between now and the end of the season. I doubt many fans believe they'll do so. But the ones who don't show any potential for overcoming this boom and bust form need to leave in the summer.

Indeed. My worry is that this may turn out to apply to more of them than Klopp was expecting, and may delay our progress to a corrrespondingly greater extent.
 
If Klopp cant show over the next few games that he can change things and get us outta this rut then he will ultimately start losing support.
 
Guess we can only hope that this string of results has been enough for Klopp to finally acknowledge that he's not working with much. If he's still looking at that shower of a squad and thinking we've been unlucky, then that's the biggest problem we've got.

Do you still think we have the best attack in the land?
 
I think a couple of issues.
1.We havnt strengthened. We need better defenders and goalkeeper and forwards. But Klopp is all 'We dont need any players' this is a problem.
2.Tactics. Conté at Chelsea was getting battered and he completely changed their system and look now.

We need to mixshit up a bit.
Season is done though yeah.
 
Conte has Luiz, Cahill, Moses, Alonso and Matic as half his team and they still win every week. No one on here would have put those players in a combined XI at the start of the season, some probably wouldn't now.
 
I think a couple of issues.
1.We havnt strengthened. We need better defenders and goalkeeper and forwards. But Klopp is all 'We dont need any players' this is a problem.
2.Tactics. Conté at Chelsea was getting battered and he completely changed their system and look now.

We need to mixshit up a bit.
Season is done though yeah.

Klopp hasn't actually said we don't need any players. He said we wouldn't be rushed into buying in January (possibly under instructions from the owners?) but has confirmed that we will be in the market in the summer. I do agree about the tactics though - we need to vary things more.

The season is done for silverware, but that's not the only thing that counts. Getting back into the CL is vital for our progress and we're still well in with a chance of that.
 
How about some ratings? The performance was flat, insipid and error-strewn, and all the obvious failings were on show. It certainly does bring into sharp focus some of the concerns about Klopp, with only Mane looking like a good enough signing, and his annoying habit of overrating players and retaining those that are clearly not good enough.

This team needs 5 new signings and we all know where: goalkeeper, CB, LB, DM, AM and striker. Maybe two strikers, given Sturridge can't run anymore, Origi is shite and Firmino is a mediocre finisher. But the team he picked should I have been good enough to beat Hull. Apart from Lucas and Mignolet, most of our players would get into their team, so why was it so easy for them?

Worrying times.

Mignolet (4) Anyone surprised? Anyone at all? After this latest display of flapping spastickery, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Klopp dropped him, and reinstated that other fucking clown

Clyne (5) uncertain and wasteful in attacking positions, he was strangely off-colour and didn't look as composed as usual.

Matip (5) It's too easy to blame Matip's mediocrity on his CB partner for the game, although anyone would be less confident with the Brazilian Joey Deacon next to them, but he's been mediocre on several occasions this season. Needs to improve or fuck off

Lucas (4) Do we get money from the FA for playing Lucas? Some kind of equality bonus? The useless cunt simply can't run; unless he is perfectly positioned, ie within 3 yards of the ball, he is easier to run past than a fucking concrete bollard. Some of the scenes when Hull ran at him were grimly, sickeningly amusing, like watching an old man fall into a ditch

Milner (4) he was so obviously fucked at the end of the last game, this performance wasn't a huge surprise, with dire passing and poor deliveries from wide, he also looks very heavy- footed. But it's not like we have that many options.

Henderson (5) a little more advanced in his play, but when the game is in a lull, and we need a catalyst to energise the team, it's not going to be Henderson. Inconsistent this season, and that's his main attribute - that 7/10 level he used to maintain a few seasons ago. What's happened to it?

Can (3) Urgh. Another poor display, after a few signs of recent improvement. Clanked about the pitch like a rusting suit of armour and did fuck all of any use all game

Lallana (4) moved further back into midfield, where he has played his only consistent level of high quality football in a Liverpool shirt, but no real improvement. Poor use of the ball, slowed the game down, zero end product. Same old.

Coutinho (3) possibly one of his worst games for Liverpool. Drifted about uncertainly, looking desperately around for any movement ahead of him, and when there was some - which wasn't often - he gave the ball away

Mane (6) our only above average performer, but not even this little Dynamo can rescue an entire team. Felt sorry for him

Firmino (3) He did a fair amount of work defensively, and that's admirable and typical. Shame he's not actually very good at his job, which is apparently scoring goals and creating them. I thought this game would suit him, given that his (admittedly embarrassingly low number of) goals have all come against poor opposition at the bottom of the league - Swansea, Palace, Watford, Stoke, Leicester - so Hull seems exactly the sort of side he could score against, where his lack of pace and mediocre finishing ability would be less harshly penalised by slower, more porous defences and less high quality goalkeeping. Sadly, no.
 
I think a couple of issues.
1.We havnt strengthened. We need better defenders and goalkeeper and forwards. But Klopp is all 'We dont need any players' this is a problem.
2.Tactics. Conté at Chelsea was getting battered and he completely changed their system and look now.

We need to mixshit up a bit.
Season is done though yeah.

In my eyes it is the midfield that is too weak. We really need players ;-)
 
I think a couple of issues.
1.We havnt strengthened. We need better defenders and goalkeeper and forwards. But Klopp is all 'We dont need any players' this is a problem.
2.Tactics. Conté at Chelsea was getting battered and he completely changed their system and look now.

We need to mixshit up a bit.
Season is done though yeah.

I like Conte but I think that move has been somewhat misunderstood. It was more curious that he took so long to change to three at the back, because that's his default formation. If Klopp had come in, let the team potter on with their slow and cautious possession game, and then introduced his high tempo pressing game, it would hardly have been a sign of imagination. It's how he prefers to play, like Conte changed to how HE prefers to play. In that sense, neither manager has actually reacted to their plans not working. The only difference is, Conte's plan has yet to NEED a response.
 
Firmino has played 23 Premiership games so far this season.
He has failed to score a goal in 17 of those games.

SEVENTEEN.

Feel free to discuss!
 
Firmino has played 23 Premiership games so far this season.
He has failed to score a goal in 17 of those games.

SEVENTEEN.

Feel free to discuss!
Well he's not much of a striker and he looks poor in attacking midfield areas, especially the wider ones. The only case for his inclusion in a quality side would be be the central attacking spot but we've got Coutinho there. He's fine against decent sides where his intensity and pressing help us dominate play. But against sides which sit back you have to wonder what is the point of him.
 
Similar ratings on here:

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/liverp...tinho-dreadful-as-klopps-flops-suffer-at-hull

Just like how the manager got credit for getting more out of underperforming players he needs to get the criticism now.

I've never seen Coutinho look so shit, nobody is moving, Henderson is the new Joe sideways and our center halves are left with players running at them constantly.

The system has been found out with this set of players, it might work with some signings but we seem to be making hard work of that too.
 
Well he's not much of a striker and he looks poor in attacking midfield areas, especially the wider ones. The only case for his inclusion in a quality side would be be the central attacking spot but we've got Coutinho there. He's fine against decent sides where his intensity and pressing help us dominate play. But against sides which sit back you have to wonder what is the point of him.

But his only goals have come against poor sides, who you would have thought aren't the most adventurous. He's only scored against *five* teams: Swansea, Stoke, Watford, Palace and Leicester.

That's embarrassing, really. And depressing.
 
That's true but is that before they all figured out how to play us? He hasn't looked remotely threatening against the recent poor sides.
 
That's true but is that before they all figured out how to play us? He hasn't looked remotely threatening against the recent poor sides.

Yeah, it's perhaps not relevant, given its hard to make any concrete conclusions from such a small sample size. Perhaps the only relevant observation would be that he hasn't scored a goal in 17 of the games he has played, and isn't very good
 
Appalling stats from frim. This from a player who supposedly best represents klopp vision on the pitch. Worrying.
 
In my eyes it is the midfield that is too weak. We really need players ;-)

You think the major problem is midfield? I think the defence is an obvious disaster area, given we've conceded more goals than City, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, West Brom, Everton and Spurs

In attack we have a main striker who has failed to score in 17 of his 23 games, and has only managed to score against 5 teams in the entire league all season

You're probably right that the midfield lacks dynamism and quality in defensive midfield, but it's not the only obvious area we need to improve
 
Firmino has played 23 Premiership games so far this season.
He has failed to score a goal in 17 of those games.

SEVENTEEN.

Feel free to discuss!

It's like you've never brought it up before, Brenners.

He needs to score more but it's not as simple as replacing him with someone who does. As has been pointed out to you a billion times. Or more.
 
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It's like you've never bought it up before, Brenners.

He needs to score more but it's not as simple as replacing him with someone who does. As has been pointed out to you a billion times. Or more.

Make your mind up, you been bleating on for months that he didn't need to score more
 
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