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Hull / Season post-mortem

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LeTallecWiz said:
As for Klopp (& Pep etc) ... This isn't Germany (or Spain), your team has to be ready and willing to fight every fucking game ... We've lost to fucking Swansea and Hull - when was the last time you saw FC Kuntz beat Bayern?
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That's not fair, teams in Germany do fight in every game. Plus Klopp won the league twice with Borussia rather than Bayern, with no huge money advantage or intimidation factor. Let's survive this low point together without questioning absolutely everything, shall we?

Let's put things in perspective – we've had an amazing September-October-November far exceeding all expectations, first place at Christmas. Then we lost Coutinho, Matip and Mane in quick succession, while teams started gradually figuring out Klopp's tactics and the combination of these things led to an awful January and now this loss. Somehow we still managed to be unbeaten vs the top 6 opposition, but "smaller" teams have been our undoing. We'll be out of top 4 by tomorrow for the first time since the beginning of the season. I am certain we will rebound and find our form again this season. The question is whether it will happen quickly enough for us to get to the top-4 place by the end.
 
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mark1975 said:
It's just completely flat and one dimensional, predictable rubbish. It's been this way since before the New Year and he's offered up no change in system at all. It's been a repetitive case of waiting until around the 70th minute to throw Sturridge/Origi on, with no real intent or purpose about what to do with that player, just throwing them on, hoping that an extra attacker will solve an already congested attack by just being there.

He's identifying nothing in the approach play as being the issue and making no real intention to alter the dynamic. I'd think more of him if he shuffled around the midfield, take of one of the holding players and put on a kid, something, anything that might add some fresh spark and ideas to a negative, one paced build up. Instead, he's just throwing anything at it and hoping something sticks.

Dalglish took alot of flack for his lack of purpose from the side lines and with substitutions. I see absolutely no difference with Klopp, just the same timings, the same attackers being thrown into a game lacking in any real creativity, it's fruitless and completely unimaginative. Amateurish in it's complete naivety.
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Can't argue with any of that.

Our buddies from across Stanley Park are now 6 behind us...6. Ahahahaha
 
Modo said:
Daniel Sturridge.
Probably my favourite player alongside Coutinho is no longer the player he used to be. Could be the style or the tactics but he just isn't the right fit and sadly our makeshift striker Firmino isn't either.
But back to Daniel. Kept an extra eye on him when he came on today just as I've looked at him when he's started before.
Every time a cross comes into the box that fucker is always ALWAYS, behind his defender. What is he doing? Of course the he'll lose every battle in the box. It's not even a battle, he just doesn't put himself in the right position to head the ball. It's like he expects it to fall on his lap.
OK, I need to be fair, he's never been a target player but it's never been this bad. I almost wish we still had Benteke on the bench.
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Its come to the point when its no use having him on the pitch. He offers nothing.
 
rurikbird said:
That's not fair, teams in Germany do fight in every game. Plus Klopp won the league twice with Borussia rather than Bayern, with no huge money advantage or intimidation factor. Let's survive this low point together without questioning absolutely everything, shall we?

Let's put things in perspective – we've had an amazing September-October-November far exceeding all expectations, first place at Christmas. Then we lost Coutinho, Matip and Mane in quick succession, while teams started gradually figuring out Klopp's tactics and the combination of these things led to an awful January and now this loss. We'll be out of top 4 by tomorrow for the first time since the beginning of the season. I am certain we will rebound and find our form again this season. The question is whether it will happen quickly enough for us to get to the top-4 place by the end.
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Good post mate.
 
Defensively- shite
Midfield - shite, weak and no guile
Attack - shite unless a moment of genius.

No style of play, no real pressing anymore.
 
It was obvious we were gonna lose. Throw Mane back into the same shitty form and hope that him and Coutinho will save us. Nah. We need a formation change, fuck the 4-3-3 off and get Henderson back as the single pivot. I'd go 4-1-3-2 or put a diamond in midfield. Whatever, try something else that isn't the same rehashed format. These situations are what defines managers in a crisis. Like Rodgers going 3-4-2-1 or whatever. Do something else

Also fire Mignolet out of a fucking rocket
 
rurikbird said:
That's not fair, teams in Germany do fight in every game. Plus Klopp won the league twice with Borussia rather than Bayern, with no huge money advantage or intimidation factor. Let's survive this low point together without questioning absolutely everything, shall we?

Let's put things in perspective – we've had an amazing September-October-November far exceeding all expectations, first place at Christmas. Then we lost Coutinho, Matip and Mane in quick succession, while teams started gradually figuring out Klopp's tactics and the combination of these things led to an awful January and now this loss. We'll be out of top 4 by tomorrow for the first time since the beginning of the season. I am certain we will rebound and find our form again this season. The question is whether it will happen quickly enough for us to get to the top-4 place by the end.
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How many teams start off the year in Germany and Spain honestly thinking they can win the league?
Germany? Dortmund & Bayern, right?
Spain? Barca & Madrid, and Atleti now with Simeone (until he leaves for Inter)?
Italy? Juve & ... ?

England is far far more competitive - there's nothing wrong with saying that, and saying it TAKES and adjustment period.

As for your last paragraph - Coutinho's injury against Sunderland was what screwed our season up completely. We could have survived without Matip until Mane left, but once we pushed Firmino to the flank, our attacking play was never as fluid or dangerous ... It sucks, but as I said - we need Coutinho & Mane, and two players of that level/talent so we can survive a full season (and that's without Europe!)
 
Karius should start the rest of the season - if he's good enough, he's good enough. If not, bin him and spend 30 million the AC Milan kid - who is seemingly open to leaving Milan.

We need a CB - a tough mother fucker that will partner Matip.

We need a CM to replace Can - who I think is finished ... Which is a pity, as I thought he had all the tools (bar a brain it seems).

We need an AM so we have 3 (Coutinho, Mane & ) minimum ... Preferably two but I don't know if possible. Brandt is a good start.

A striker - but only world class - if we can find one willing to come to Liverpool. If not, another AM so we have 4 ...
 
LeTallecWiz said:
How many teams start off the year in Germany and Spain honestly thinking they can win the league?
Germany? Dortmund & Bayern, right?
Spain? Barca & Madrid, and Atleti now with Simeone (until he leaves for Inter)?
Italy? Juve & ... ?

England is far far more competitive - there's nothing wrong with saying that, and saying it TAKES and adjustment period.

As for your last paragraph - Coutinho's injury against Sunderland was what screwed our season up completely. We could have survived without Matip until Mane left, but once we pushed Firmino to the flank, our attacking play was never as fluid or dangerous ... It sucks, but as I said - we need Coutinho & Mane, and two players of that level/talent so we can survive a full season (and that's without Europe!)
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I agree with parts of that but prior to Klopp winning the league with Dortmund, they won it 1996 and 2002. The German league is competitive to say the least.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Karius should start the rest of the season - if he's good enough, he's good enough. If not, bin him and spend 30 million the AC Milan kid - who is seemingly open to leaving Milan.

We need a CB - a tough mother fucker that will partner Matip.

We need a CM to replace Can - who I think is finished ... Which is a pity, as I thought he had all the tools (bar a brain it seems).

We need an AM so we have 3 (Coutinho, Mane & ) minimum ... Preferably two but I don't know if possible. Brandt is a good start.

A striker - but only world class - if we can find one willing to come to Liverpool. If not, another AM so we have 4 ...
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Agreed
 
And one more point on Klopp's tactics being figured out – that's normal, this comes with playing in the best league in the world. Especially now with most of the top tacticians managing here. This league is brutal – every single manager has been "found out" at some point this season – you name it: Mourinho, Guardiola, Wenger, even Conte at the beginning of the season and then again when Spurs drew and beat them. To his credit Conte has always found the answers quickly and having a title-winning squad and no Europe helped a lot.

Will Klopp rebound? Hell yes he will. I have no doubt about that. What worries me is how quickly can the players come out of this funk; now we have our strongest team all fit on paper and yet mentally they are in such a low place, you could see the likes of Coutinho and Lallana just cannot do anything right at the moment. Klopp will need to restore some pride and maybe make some tactical and personnel changes as well to change things quickly, because right now even the effort level on pressing seems to be not where it was earlier in the season. Even at 0:0 today this never looked like the same Liverpool team from the Fall, the creativity and purpose were all missing and players seemed to be going through the motions.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Karius should start the rest of the season - if he's good enough, he's good enough. If not, bin him and spend 30 million the AC Milan kid - who is seemingly open to leaving Milan.

We need a CB - a tough mother fucker that will partner Matip.

We need a CM to replace Can - who I think is finished ... Which is a pity, as I thought he had all the tools (bar a brain it seems).

We need an AM so we have 3 (Coutinho, Mane & ) minimum ... Preferably two but I don't know if possible. Brandt is a good start.

A striker - but only world class - if we can find one willing to come to Liverpool. If not, another AM so we have 4 ...
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Yep we need to pump £100m+ in the summer.
 
rurikbird said:
That's not fair, teams in Germany do fight in every game. Plus Klopp won the league twice with Borussia rather than Bayern, with no huge money advantage or intimidation factor. Let's survive this low point together without questioning absolutely everything, shall we?

Let's put things in perspective – we've had an amazing September-October-November far exceeding all expectations, first place at Christmas. Then we lost Coutinho, Matip and Mane in quick succession, while teams started gradually figuring out Klopp's tactics and the combination of these things led to an awful January and now this loss. Somehow we still managed to be unbeaten vs the top 6 opposition, but "smaller" teams have been our undoing. We'll be out of top 4 by tomorrow for the first time since the beginning of the season. I am certain we will rebound and find our form again this season. The question is whether it will happen quickly enough for us to get to the top-4 place by the end.
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Good post.
We played some great football earlier this season. All of our players are out of form, and out of confidence. All of them!
This should change sometime soon. It will.
We have now a very "relaxed" schedule. I'm sure Klopp will use it for working with the team, football wise as well as psychologically.
I still trust the man. We should give him time.
 
I think it's silly to think we are so many players short. If for instance, our dominance caused goals, it wouldn't be tremendously relevant that we are weak at lb. A team can carry weaknesses, as we've clearly seen. Not so much through the center of the team, or in attack.
 
The good thing is that now we've nothing to play for anymore we'll start to play well so that we can look forward to the new season believing we'll win it.
 
Whats clear is that a break from football is needed. A week until Spurs, so more than enough time to do something else.
Thinking about how we've thrown this away these last few weeks is enough to drive you mad.
 
Klopp's pretty low on my blame list.

He's had a season and a bit to assess this squad and he must now have realised that he's not got many players who are brave enough or clever enough. He's got too many who can play well in spurts, like Lallana, and then really fall off the pace. And he's got possibly the most moronic player ever to play for LFC, Moreno, who should be shot. Forget political correctness, I mean shot. I'd gladly do it myself.

Klopp's track record at Dortmund was very impressive - there he had players who COULD keep up the pace over a season, play intelligently, change things, and win things. What he needs to do here is improve the squad in a major way.

I was told, usually with tonnes of gratuitous abuse, that we didn't need a bigger squad this season as we had such a light load. Well, that went well, didn't it? Of course you need to rest players for some games, but I stand by what I said: you should NEVER need to play the kind of callow sides that we did in some cup games this season, it was an embarrassment. We don't have the quality of reserves to do that. Our squad is nowhere near big enough to cope at the right level.

Youth players, I'd say, are his greatest challenge long term. In Germany he could improve them because they played in competitive leagues and could evolve fairly naturally into sound senior players. Here he's already realised that most loan deals are creative black holes - they just go off and sit on a bench for six months. But he's also now realised that the academy and reserve leagues are atrocious, so there's a massive challenge there for him to replicate the flow of talent he had in Germany.

But he can and must buy at least three genuinely top class, tried and trusted first team players this summer, and FSG must back him to the hilt. He's shown how well he can get teams playing, but he needs better players, and quickly.
 
rurikbird said:
Will Klopp rebound? Hell yes he will. I have no doubt about that.
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I hope you're right sir - I love your footy posts, love 'em, and you're spot on more often than not ... so I'll ask - has Klopp ever really changed his tactics from Mainz and Dortmund? Or doe he stick this way? If that's the case, we need better players ...
 
Moreno seeing a pass running out: so he races to the touchline and backheels ro keep it in play, To one of their players. Who gratefully sets off on a counter attack. And this historic buffoon, this astounding imbecile, probably still thinks what he did was really impressive. I'd get a crane, lift up a car and drop it on his effing HEAD!!!
 
By the way, not that it would change anything about the performance, but I think we should have had a penalty at 0:0 when Firmino's goal-bound shot was blocked by the defender's arm. As usual, when it rains it pours – I wonder if the refs are less likely to give a decision to a team obviously low on confidence, because that's what has been happening the last few weeks. I think earlier in the season the same episode gets us a penalty.
 
gkmacca said:
Moreno seeing a pass running out: so he races to the touchline and backheels ro keep it in play, To one of their players. Who gratefully sets off on a counter attack. And this historic buffoon, this astounding imbecile, probably still thinks what he did was really impressive. I'd get a crane, lift up a car and drop it on his effing HEAD!!!
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I'm almost willing to set up a gofundme page to see you do the necessary ... I just hope SOME team in Spain wants him ...
 
LeTallecWiz said:
I hope you're right sir - I love your footy posts, love 'em, and you're spot on more often than not ... so I'll ask - has Klopp ever really changed his tactics from Mainz and Dortmund? Or doe he stick this way? If that's the case, we need better players ...
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I didn't see him much at Mainz, but I know he actually changed his style quite a bit while at Dortmund. In his first 2-3 seasons there were almost exclusively a counter-attacking team, but later he absorbed some ideas from Bielsa and Guardiola and started playing with a more possession-based approach. So yes, he can and has been evolving as a tactician. I think now in the EPL he will be forced to evolve even more. One obvious thing I think he should try soon would be to play more "vertically" – long passes directly from the defense into the speedy attacking players (for now, only Mane and Origi fit the bill). The midfields are so congested, all the space is now behind the defensive line. This tactic would also help to balance the possession percentage and give us more opportunities to press and counter-attack.
 
rurikbird said:
I didn't see him much at Mainz, but I know he actually changed his style quite a bit while at Dortmund. In his first 2-3 season there were almost exclusively a counter-attacking team, but later he absorbed some ideas from Bielsa and Guardiola and started playing with a more possession-based approach. So yes, he can and has been evolving as a tactician. I think now in the EPL he will be forced to evolve even more. One obvious thing I think he should try soon would be to play more "vertically" – long passes directly from the defense into the speedy attacking players (for now, only Mane and Origi). The midfields are so congested, all the space is now behind the defensive line. This tactic would also help to balance the possession percentage and give us more opportunities to press and counter-attack.
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He 'absorbed' ideas from Bielsa and Guardiola?

Really?
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Karius should start the rest of the season - if he's good enough, he's good enough. If not, bin him and spend 30 million the AC Milan kid - who is seemingly open to leaving Milan.

We need a CB - a tough mother fucker that will partner Matip.

We need a CM to replace Can - who I think is finished ... Which is a pity, as I thought he had all the tools (bar a brain it seems).

We need an AM so we have 3 (Coutinho, Mane & ) minimum ... Preferably two but I don't know if possible. Brandt is a good start.

A striker - but only world class - if we can find one willing to come to Liverpool. If not, another AM so we have 4 ...
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I thought we didn't need to play with a striker?

sigh

When is everyone going to simply agree with everything I say in order to save time and a tediously lengthy exchange of posts?

As for the goalkeeper situation, I've obviously been saying that Mignolet isn't good enough for three years now, but are you that convinced by Karius?

I'm not sure at all.
 
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