Yeah, I don't think there is any point in us signing a player in the 18-21 age bracket that needs a couple seasons in the first team to develop.
Harvey
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Yeah, I don't think there is any point in us signing a player in the 18-21 age bracket that needs a couple seasons in the first team to develop.
I think we have a clear strategy of not signing players in that age group - which makes sense.
Agreed. They range seems to attract the same price as a fully fledged 24 year old yet you still have to put the effort in to develop them.
Exactly - or you pick them up for peanuts before they hit 18 and develop them.
18-21 cost loads and need to play to progress but aren’t quite good enough to hold down a spot in a top team - this is Harvey’s problem - he’s too good to be loaned out and not quite good enough yet to be first choice.
All he can do is keep working away in training, improving and wait for the chance to play consistently - which unfortunately looks like only happening if we get an injury to a midfielder.
@StevieM - do you think fans want to do this ? - no they don't - I have never seen a future for a lot of our players - we all (if we are honest with ourselves) realize what the level is at this club and the truth is that a player like Elliot is not going to make the grade for us, he just isn't. You know how we know ? - coz there are people on here who have seen the likes of Owen/Sterling/Gerard come through from a young age and realize the levels required for a youngster to become a first team regular.
The one thing we should have learnt a long time ago before Klopp came to us - is that there is no point having these attachments to these players - it's pointless. If they are not good enough even as a sub or to cover and convince us that they can make a difference against a team like Plymouth then I am all for letting them go, I also want to see Diaz go as well, and for that matter Jota/Nunez can leave. No one is going to start on the other youngsters coz they hardly play anyway and some physically not fully developed.
He is not gonna improve to become whatever you imagining, he is not a great dribbler, dont have speed, dont have physicality, and is not an owen sized striker, so I have no idea what future you see him in at this club.
He’s a similar stature to Bernardo Silva, Mac Allister Luka Modric - those are the types of players he should be aiming to replicate - work rate, passing and technical ability on the ball are his key attributes - he’s doesn’t need to be built like a brick shithouse or run like a whippet.
We’ve one this before - at the same age, Silva was just starting to establish himself at Monaco, Macca was still in Argentina and Modric was still at Zagreb.
The problem is people like you always tend to covet other things.
Be careful - that’s the mindset that leads to the calls for Curtis to be sold next.
You're comparing Elliott to the Bernardo Silva you see today. Silva is and was a lot quicker than Elliott at 22. Silva is also better technically.
Also who of the kids we have or have had at LFC were we wrong about?
So with your mindset we'd have Wilson starting in midfield and Ben Woodburn upfront.
Also who of the kids we have or have had at LFC were we wrong about?
So with your mindset we'd have Wilson starting in midfield and Ben Woodburn upfront.
That’s not my point and you know it.
Harvey has performed at a much higher level than Woodburn or Wilson ever did for us and he’s not quite turned 22 yet.
Maybe you knew all about Silva at 21 in his first season at Monaco - I didn’t, but Harvey’s been playing at a higher level than him at a younger age.
I’m not saying that means he’s better or going to be better - I’m saying that, at the minute he’s gone through the difficult developmental years, still has a lot to offer and judging him right now when he’s not playing regularly isn’t a fair reflection of where he’s at.
I absolutely believe he’s a talented player who could play a huge part in our team for years to come - if he gets the chance to establish himself in a midfield role that suits him.
Sometimes these things just click suddenly - like Gravy this year. CJ has looked much better.
I don’t know what Harvey needs to do - every time he doesn’t play, looks out of sort, these same threads start and every time he gets a consistent run, plays well, all of a sudden he’s the best thing since sliced bread again.
He’s neither - just a very good young player that’s trying to break into one of the best teams in the world.
What is best for Harvey is for him to be in a club where he's allowed to have bad games.
The thing about most young'ish players is that they need to play consistently week in, week out in a team where they have the trust of the coaching setup. That is the only way you're going to see what they're really capable of.
The league has become so ultra competitive now that it's almost impossible for a young player to consistently get games at the top. They either have to be lucky (right time and right position, e.g. Bradley) or incredibly good.
Would David Silva have become the same player if he didn't have what was it, 5/6 seasons playing consistently for Valencia? Maybe... maybe not.
Elliot is stuck between a bit of a rock and a hard place. He clearly loves the club and wants to be here but unless things change drastically, he'll have to leave to really see what he can accomplish.
The league has become so ultra competitive now that it's almost impossible for a young player to consistently get games at the top. They either have to be lucky (right time and right position, e.g. Bradley) or incredibly good.
Would David Silva have become the same player if he didn't have what was it, 5/6 seasons playing consistently for Valencia? Maybe... maybe not.
Elliot is stuck between a bit of a rock and a hard place. He clearly loves the club and wants to be here but unless things change drastically, he'll have to leave to really see what he can accomplish.
They need to stay at lower levels longer. eg I could never really understand why Doak came to us when he did - surely Celtic was the absolute perfect level for him to get good experience as a 17/18 year old?
Loans don't cut it the same imo. Maybe once or twice is ok, but most lads need until they're 22 or so until they're really ready for the PL. That Ojo we had on our books had about 7 or 8 loans, all over the place - he was never going to flourish under those circumstances.
Well , he’s at the right club then, or are you saying every player that has a bad game needs to be moved on?
Every season we have a player that gets injured, gets played out of position, gets a few minutes here and there, then is expected to be world class whenever he’s given a start.
14 odd games Harvey missed with injury, 75 minutes he’s played in the EPL over 9 games.
He’s started 4 games, 2 of which he’s scored in - the comp he’s played most in is the FA Cup when he played out of position in one and was the oldest player deployed in the midfield for most of the game in front of inexperienced 17 & 20 year olds.
Yet… he’s this weeks scapegoat in a game some people wanted us to lose anyway.
No he's not at the right club. Chances don't come easy at LFC. So when you're called upon you need to perform.
He needs to be somewhere he can play regularly and have regular meh games.
I think if he played regularly for someone like Villa he would probably flourish, we'll obviously never know until he plays regularly for someone, but I swear some posters have been desperate for this game to happen just so they can feel vindicated. It's a pretty shitty trait really. At times he's done well, at others he hasn't, obviously the only thing that matters to people's personal agenda's is the times he's underperformed, because it suits the narrative and massages their sad little ego's.
I don't know. Probably hasn't got the tools physically regardless in the top 6. Look at a player like Rogers who plays in that 10 role or out wide. Much more pace and power and the ability to use that physical side.
Elliott wont have that, and isnt good enough to solely rely on his ability.
A career at a midtable club is likely imho.
Elliott wont have that, and isnt good enough to solely rely on his ability.
A career at a midtable club is likely imho.
The issue with Elliott is his game time and opportunities. Physically, he's never going to be a standout, so he needs to be technically exceptional, productive, a great decision-maker, and injury-free to have a chance. The question is, will he get there by playing just 10-15 minutes under Slot? The challenge is that Slot tends to favour a preferred starting eleven and uses it whenever possible. I’d suggest that for Elliott to displace Szobo, he needs to be contributing 20-30% more goal involvements to compensate for Szobo’s work rate and athleticism. It's not all about numbers - it's also balance. If Slot starts with his preferred choice of Mac Allister then having Elliott means there's another small, not especially athletic midfielder in the centre of the pitch, which again, does Elliott no favours.
If Slot, understandably, doesn't feel Elliott can overcome those hurdles with the platform he'll be given then it's probably best for him to have that frank conversation and look for options for him. That shouldn't be controversial, nor should the idea that having a midfielder that can directly compete on the same footing as Szobo without upsetting the balance, is one scope for improving the squad.
On the flipside, there's no real danger to giving Elliott more time, especially in the summer in which there looks set to be plenty of upheaval. It's been a rough year for Elliott, and opportunities will likely reduce now we are out the FA Cup and at the business end of the season, so I'm not optimistic, but things can change. The best thing he can do is put in some impactful performances of the bench and raising his standing with Slot and the coaching staff. At the end of last season he was showing he was good enough to play for us consistently, and Klopp said he regretted not playing him more. It's easier said than done, but Elliott needs to get back to that level within the next 12 months.
Despite the success of the current team, Slot will be keen to stamp his mark on this squad sooner rather than later and there will be casualties of that in the next 18 months. I remember one Feyenoord fan called him ruthless when it came to squad building, and not to be taken in by his relaxed, friendly persona, so lets see. The year Elliot has had certainly puts him at risk of the club being open to offers.
If Slot, understandably, doesn't feel Elliott can overcome those hurdles with the platform he'll be given then it's probably best for him to have that frank conversation and look for options for him. That shouldn't be controversial, nor should the idea that having a midfielder that can directly compete on the same footing as Szobo without upsetting the balance, is one scope for improving the squad.
On the flipside, there's no real danger to giving Elliott more time, especially in the summer in which there looks set to be plenty of upheaval. It's been a rough year for Elliott, and opportunities will likely reduce now we are out the FA Cup and at the business end of the season, so I'm not optimistic, but things can change. The best thing he can do is put in some impactful performances of the bench and raising his standing with Slot and the coaching staff. At the end of last season he was showing he was good enough to play for us consistently, and Klopp said he regretted not playing him more. It's easier said than done, but Elliott needs to get back to that level within the next 12 months.
Despite the success of the current team, Slot will be keen to stamp his mark on this squad sooner rather than later and there will be casualties of that in the next 18 months. I remember one Feyenoord fan called him ruthless when it came to squad building, and not to be taken in by his relaxed, friendly persona, so lets see. The year Elliot has had certainly puts him at risk of the club being open to offers.
This.
In that add those who were writing off Curtis Jones and absolutely fawning over Mason Mount. Too rash.
Curtis will NEVER be sold (as I keep saying - one of the best midfielders in Europe/World and only injuries have set him back) - and you comparing Silva or Macca to Harvey is just silly, the skill set both of those players had at a younger age made them always have a chance at the big clubs. Right now Harvey has none of that.
One other thing - that comment of yours "The problem is people like you always tend to covet other things." - that is sadly pure bollox. Yes I want Elliot gone, as I do Trent, but who do I want in place of them ? - I actually don't know. I have supported this club long enough to know that we make stars out of specific types of players and we don't go out and buy top dog players with ego's.
There are a lot of players I don't rate as highly as some of you do - I actually think TAA is fucking shit for 90% of games he has played in last 3 seasons - and would celebrate like a new signing if he left our club. Unlike most of you on here - I realize something profound about him that some of you seem to miss with your deep attachments - which is he is not a forward - he is a RB - and a RB's job for most of time has been to defend first. I just want a normal RB that sometimes goes forward with caution. Sure I will support him like Elliot while at the club - but I can never change my feeling towards him (Trent) or that Elliot is not good enough and won't develop further.
As previously mentioned - the same things were said about CJ.
I just do t get the hate for our players - particularly young players.
I never hated any young player, I just dont think some will make it and Elliot is one of them.
I think Slot is indirectly killing Elliot's confidence by treating him like this, unfairly I might add.
Some players need to know that their manager trusts them.
Yup. But perhaps the klopp coddling didn't help Elliott build a stronger character. He's been poor this season. He needs to play for the badge and himself, no one else
He played his best football under Klopp. Maybe Elliott needs fondling by Slot too.
Slots not that guy
