glen johnson

[Loch Ness Monster]

Magic is simply magic. If Dirk continues in his poor run of form, then why not try Kelly at RB and Magic doing the damage in front of him. Shame we are not blessed on the left with our options.
Aurelio is our best option at LB but Insua will have to fill in around his injuries.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37076.msg985197#msg985197 date=1257849214]
What's this, beat up the new kid?

I think dmishra is overcomplicating the analysis somewhat. The reason Insua doesn't take on players and drive the play forward as much as Johnson is 10% confidence and 90% the fact that he's right to not do so, because he doesn't have the tools to do it (pace, and dribbling ability). It also isn't helped that he doesn't play with a competent LW, and due to Riera's injury, he won't be for a while yet.

[/quote]
I didn't even notice that he was new.

I'm relatively a noob here to Fark.

He was saying that Insua didn't want the ball, which was crap, and he got pulled up on it and he suddenly went, "Uh uh uh!! Didn't you see the apostrophe? I meant DRIBBLE!!!!!"

 

[Sunny]

What the fuck has Markus Babbel got to do with it ?

 

[dossena]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985205#msg985205 date=1257849514]
Hehe, a tag team, and one that's trying to convince each other that their opponent's shit. Why do I even bother?

I liked Babbel though. Nice player. I think Johnson will be better though.
[/quote]
But he didn't burst forward and THEN play pass and move.

By your definition, he wasn't a good full back.

No tag team, do you think I should've just dropped out when Keniget started to disagree with you?

 

[spider-Neil]

dirk would have to lose a leg before rafa drops him. you aren't going to see johnson at right midfield anytime soon.

 

[manwithnoname]

Insua's shit because he's slow and isn't positionally aware.

I remember posting afew times over a year ago that I had heard some reports that he was a bit fat, lazy, slow and not actually great at defending.

All true.

He's rubbish.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=37076.msg985208#msg985208 date=1257849571]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985205#msg985205 date=1257849514]
Hehe, a tag team, and one that's trying to convince each other that their opponent's shit. Why do I even bother?

I liked Babbel though. Nice player. I think Johnson will be better though.
[/quote]

nice? babbel was one of the best fullbacks this club has ever had.
[/quote]

And nice is a pejorative?

We've been blessed with some very solid right-backs over the last few years. Babbel was better than Finnan and Arbeloa, though not by a very long shot. I'm not old enough to have seen Liverpool play before that, but I've heard several arguments that Rob Jones was the best ever right-back to play for us, so I don't know about the best ever. But this is completely unrelated to Insua.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985190#msg985190 date=1257848530]
Let’s be clear since you seem to take everything literally despite the use of apostrophes. My reference to Insua not ‘wanting’ the ball enough refers to his lack of desire to demand the ball in tight situations and more often than not when placed in tight situations he likes to play it square and run down aimlessly – not for a one two but along a tight channel where the ball, if played back to him, invariably goes out of play. If you haven’t seen this happening, you need to watch our games more closely.

What good fullbacks do in tight situations is to burst forward and create space and THEN play the pass and move game. Insua plays it in tight situations where there is no space to work moves. Clearly a lack of confidence in carrying the ball.

My opinion of him is not, however, as extreme to suggest that he is garbage. He’s decent but not a world beating full-back and is unlikely to ever be one.
[/quote]

It's nothing to do with taking things literally or the use of apostrophes. If you're trying to give us some sort of finer analysis on a player and get something wrong - as you quite obviously did - just own up to it and we can move on to discussing the rest of your points. I've got no problems with doing that... you quite obviously do.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=37076.msg985206#msg985206 date=1257849533]
[quote author=dossena link=topic=37076.msg985194#msg985194 date=1257848765]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985190#msg985190 date=1257848530]

What good fullbacks do in tight situations is to burst forward and create space and THEN play the pass and move game. Insua plays it in tight situations where there is no space to work moves. Clearly a lack of confidence in carrying the ball.

[/quote]
Okay.

Do you think Markus Babbel was a good full back for us?

This should be fun.

[/quote]

babbel was a superb crosser of the ball, insua is not. also babbel was good in the air so could attack and defend set pieces.
[/quote]
I agree with all that.

However, he didn't like to dribble much. Thus, not a good full back.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=37076.msg985213#msg985213 date=1257849676]
What the fuck has Markus Babbel got to do with it ?
[/quote]

What have Insua and Aurelio got to do with it also?

This a thread of praise and worship for Magic Johnson.
Great game last night, unplayable even.
A great signing who is still young enough to establish himself as a Liverpool legend.
Let's hope he can keep this up and he gets to win some silverware at the club.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Lets hope he doesnt get injured playing in Dubai.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=37076.msg985225#msg985225 date=1257850081]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985190#msg985190 date=1257848530]
Let’s be clear since you seem to take everything literally despite the use of apostrophes. My reference to Insua not ‘wanting’ the ball enough refers to his lack of desire to demand the ball in tight situations and more often than not when placed in tight situations he likes to play it square and run down aimlessly – not for a one two but along a tight channel where the ball, if played back to him, invariably goes out of play. If you haven’t seen this happening, you need to watch our games more closely.

What good fullbacks do in tight situations is to burst forward and create space and THEN play the pass and move game. Insua plays it in tight situations where there is no space to work moves. Clearly a lack of confidence in carrying the ball.

My opinion of him is not, however, as extreme to suggest that he is garbage. He’s decent but not a world beating full-back and is unlikely to ever be one.
[/quote]

It's nothing to do with taking things literally or the use of apostrophes. If you're trying to give us some sort of finer analysis on a player and get something wrong - as you quite obviously did - just own up to it and we can move on to discussing the rest of your points. I've got no problems with doing that... you quite obviously do.
[/quote]

Huh, it doesn't? I see. My initial post pointed was to point out flaws in Insua's game. It's one thing to disagree with them as a matter of opinion and one thing to try and browbeat someone saying that 'you are wrong, just admit it'. Clearly, you're not used to having a different opinion. You believe 'wanting' the ball is screaming at another player to pass it to you when he's free. I believe players 'want', and you can see my original post, when I clearly demarcated its usage as one out of its ordinary meaning with the use of the apostrophe, when they have the guts and the confidence to demand it in tight situations. World-class fullbacks do it, as do world-class midfielders. Insua doesn't.

You don't agree with that, then don't. But cut down the condescension and stop telling me that I should stop believing it.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=dossena link=topic=37076.msg985238#msg985238 date=1257850651]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=37076.msg985206#msg985206 date=1257849533]
[quote author=dossena link=topic=37076.msg985194#msg985194 date=1257848765]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985190#msg985190 date=1257848530]

What good fullbacks do in tight situations is to burst forward and create space and THEN play the pass and move game. Insua plays it in tight situations where there is no space to work moves. Clearly a lack of confidence in carrying the ball.

[/quote]
Okay.

Do you think Markus Babbel was a good full back for us?

This should be fun.

[/quote]

babbel was a superb crosser of the ball, insua is not. also babbel was good in the air so could attack and defend set pieces.
[/quote]
I agree with all that.

However, he didn't like to dribble much. Thus, not a good full back.
[/quote]

The word 'dribble' has been used in this thread only by you and Keniget.

Don't bend yourself over trying to prove wrong something which you assume others are saying.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=dossena link=topic=37076.msg985214#msg985214 date=1257849761]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985205#msg985205 date=1257849514]
Hehe, a tag team, and one that's trying to convince each other that their opponent's shit. Why do I even bother?

I liked Babbel though. Nice player. I think Johnson will be better though.
[/quote]
But he didn't burst forward and THEN play pass and move.

By your definition, he wasn't a good full back.

No tag team, do you think I should've just dropped out when Keniget started to disagree with you?
[/quote]

He certainly did. As did Finnan and Arbeloa. Despite the fact that none of them were blessed with great pace, they all liked and 'wanted' the ball at their feet. They regularly carried the ball out, especially Babbel and Arbeloa and stretched the opposition to create space for one-twos. Insua doesn't. I like his energy in moving up and down but he lacks the ability (in terms of pace) and also the confidence in carrying the ball. Very often we are put under pressure because of his unsureness on the ball, despite the fact that he can actually handle it well when he wants to, which is something I maintained in original post.

 

[keniget]

The term "wanting the ball" has a common connotation within football that both myself and Dossena attributed to your comment - maybe others can say whether or not we wrong to do so. The fact that you used apostrophes doesn't help anyone understand your own special meaning of the term if you don't actually bother to explain it.

As it happens, I still don't agree with your analysis now that you have actually explained it further and still think certain things don't make sense. So far, you've made reference to two things in response to the original comments about 'not wanting the ball':

1) Players who 'want' the ball have a swagger about them and will demand the ball even in tight spots. I don't think Insua has purposely avoided doing this, so we'll agree to disagree about that.

2) 'Bursting forward from defence' - what do you mean by this? You've complained about the usage of the word "dribbling". At it's most basic, dribbling to me just means travelling with the ball.

 

[manwithnoname]

Fuck me, this is a dull argument

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37076.msg985301#msg985301 date=1257855445]
Fuck me, this is a dull argument
[/quote]

I know.

I'm taking my boredom out on dmishra I guess.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985293#msg985293 date=1257854958]
[quote author=dossena link=topic=37076.msg985214#msg985214 date=1257849761]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=37076.msg985205#msg985205 date=1257849514]
Hehe, a tag team, and one that's trying to convince each other that their opponent's shit. Why do I even bother?

I liked Babbel though. Nice player. I think Johnson will be better though.
[/quote]
But he didn't burst forward and THEN play pass and move.

By your definition, he wasn't a good full back.

No tag team, do you think I should've just dropped out when Keniget started to disagree with you?
[/quote]

He certainly did. As did Finnan and Arbeloa. Despite the fact that none of them were blessed with great pace, they all liked and 'wanted' the ball at their feet. They regularly carried the ball out, especially Babbel and Arbeloa and stretched the opposition to create space for one-twos. Insua doesn't. I like his energy in moving up and down but he lacks the ability (in terms of pace) and also the confidence in carrying the ball. Very often we are put under pressure because of his unsureness on the ball, despite the fact that he can actually handle it well when he wants to, which is something I maintained in original post.

[/quote]
Okay let's make it clear now, cos you've really confused me.

What's the difference between wanting the ball and 'wanting' the ball?

 

[Spionkop69]

Back on the topic:

Johnson lives up to his nickname going forward.

He has been indifferent at his main job; defending. Their first goal last night came because he didn't win the header at the back post - although someone will no doubt say it was Lucas's fault for giving away the free-kick.

But when we were pinning them down to try and break them, Johnson was one of the main drivers in that. Perhaps we should find a RB and play him at RM and play Kuyt in his correct position...especially if Nando is out until Feb.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=37076.msg985296#msg985296 date=1257855163]
The term "wanting the ball" has a common connotation within football that both myself and Dossena attributed to your comment - maybe others can say whether or not we wrong to do so. The fact that you used apostrophes doesn't help anyone understand your own special meaning of the term if you don't actually bother to explain it.

As it happens, I still don't agree with your analysis now that you have actually explained it further and still think certain things don't make sense. So far, you've made reference to two things in response to the original comments about 'not wanting the ball':

1) Players who 'want' the ball have a swagger about them and will demand the ball even in tight spots. I don't think Insua has purposely avoided doing this, so we'll agree to disagree about that.

2) 'Bursting forward from defence' - what do you mean by this? You've complained about the usage of the word "dribbling". At it's most basic, dribbling to me just means travelling with the ball.


[/quote]

Thank you for acknowledging that 'wanting' has only a common connotation and it could have a specific one. I have explained it, which I, of course, didn't in the original post, but I wasn't expecting a barrage of posts nitpicking one phrase in my post when the general consensus in this thread has been that Insua isn't the greatest of fullbacks. Anyway, since you disagree let's leave it that.

However, as far as 'dribbling' is concerned, there is not a common, but a universal connotation ascribed to it in football as one of taking on players and beating them. How the same could be associated with 'bursting forward from defence' or 'carrying the ball out of defence' is beyond me. What those phrases mean is simple to gauge from a very literal interpretation - carrying the ball with your feet from your own half to the opposition's half. This doesn't necessarily require pace or incredible ability with the ball. It requires a degree of confidence which Insua doesn't have. Babbel had it, as did Arbeloa, as does Johnson - and as do ball-playing centre-halves like Agger.

 

[ibromurph]

Johnson is great.. it's amazing what players with great pace, strength and technique can do eh?

Hopefully Johnson can go some way to curbing Rafa's penchant for slow, weak, average-technical players. My one big critique of Rafa.

 

[dossena]

So asking the ball in tight spaces --> 'wanting' the ball

Running forward to space, overlapping the midfield --> wanting the ball.

Oh and Dmishra

dribble [?dr?b?l]
vb
1. (usually intr) to flow or allow to flow in a thin stream or drops; trickle
2. (intr) to allow saliva to trickle from the mouth
3. (Team Sports / Soccer) (Team Sports / Basketball) (Team Sports / Hockey (Field & Ice)) (in soccer, basketball, hockey, etc.) to propel (the ball) by repeatedly tapping it with the hand, foot, or stick

There you go..

Dribbling literally means carrying the ball. 'Dribbling' on the other hand..

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

I think you have made your point Dossena. Obviously your command of the English language is much better than Dmishras'.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37076.msg985377#msg985377 date=1257858618]
I think you have made your point Dossena. Obviously your command of the English language is much better than Dmishras'.
[/quote]

Ohhh get you... 😉

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

I was getting dizzy with all the circles the argument was creating.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37076.msg985384#msg985384 date=1257858951]
I was getting dizzy with all the circles the argument was creating.
[/quote]

Yes, your modship... 😛

 

[themn]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=37076.msg985381#msg985381 date=1257858914]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37076.msg985377#msg985377 date=1257858618]
I think you have made your point Dossena. Obviously your command of the English language is much better than Dmishras'.
[/quote]

Ohhh get you... 😉
[/quote]

I know.

Acting all "moddy".

Oooooooh !

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

*lends banstick from Oncy*

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37076.msg985389#msg985389 date=1257859096]
*lends banstick from Oncy*
[/quote]

Ahem 😉

*borrows*

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=dossena link=topic=37076.msg985374#msg985374 date=1257858484]
So asking the ball in tight spaces --> 'wanting' the ball

Running forward to space, overlapping the midfield --> wanting the ball.

Oh and Dmishra

dribble [?dr?b?l]
vb
1. (usually intr) to flow or allow to flow in a thin stream or drops; trickle
2. (intr) to allow saliva to trickle from the mouth
3. (Team Sports / Soccer) (Team Sports / Basketball) (Team Sports / Hockey (Field & Ice)) (in soccer, basketball, hockey, etc.) to propel (the ball) by repeatedly tapping it with the hand, foot, or stick

There you go..

Dribbling literally means carrying the ball. 'Dribbling' on the other hand..
[/quote]

Oh dear. You go to an online free dictionary to prove me wrong. Laughable. So Alan Hansen was a brilliant dribbler, as is Agger, Ferdinand and Nesta. Stanley Matthews would be proud of the skills they possess.

Just to humour you, the greatest contextual free online source will tell you that

"In sports such as football (soccer), basketball, bandy and water polo, dribbling refers to the maneuvering of a ball around a defender through short skillful taps or kicks with either the legs (football/soccer), hands (basketball), stick (bandy) or swimming strokes (water polo). The purpose of such an action is to bring the ball past a defender legally and to create opportunities to score."

Footnote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dribbling