Georginio Wijnaldum - confirmed
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What type of player is he? Position? Walk into our first 11 level or another squad addition level?
He's an attacking midfielder really. He can play in the middle but he's better pushing forward.
That's my impression too; I like Wijnaldum as a player, but for the moment being not quite sure how Klopp intends to fit him in the team. I had the same question about Zielinsky, so I guess there is a reason why Klopp is looking to sign an attacking CM type.
After thinking some more about it, I think I am starting to understand the logic. As things stand we have midfielders of roughly 3 types:
1. Holding midfielder (anchor): Can (1st choice), Lucas and Stewart (back-ups). This is a player who mostly holds their position in front of a back 4 and whose main job is to break up attacks.
2. Roaming/passing midfielder: Henderson (1st choice when fit), Milner and Brannagan (back-ups). This is the closest thing to a playmaker, but in Klopp's system this player also needs to be an energetic runner. I think Dahoud would fall into this category as well.
3. Attacking CM: Allen* and Grujic. Obviously this is where Wijnaldum fits in. Zielinski was supposed to fill the same need. Last season Milner was often used in that role, with mixed success (good assist numbers; not enough goal-scoring threat).
*Allen is an interesting case, because apparently Rodgers and Klopp have completely different perspectives on him as a player. Rodgers used Allen primarily as a passing metronome (category #2) or out of necessity as a holding player (category #1), which in my opinion didn't work at all and was a prime example of Rodgers' defensive naïveté. By contrast, Klopp only saw Allen as suitable to category #3 - so in those rare games Allen was playing, he was operating much closer to the opposition goal than at any time under Rodgers. Klopp values athleticism in his midfielders, so using Allen as a holding midfielder would be a non-starter for him while as a playmaker Allen is too reliant on short passing for Klopp's liking. This shows that the categories above can be very subjective, even for the professionals.
A couple more things on the attacking CM role. This position exists only in 4-3-3 type systems; in 4-2-3-1 it will probably be midfielders of the first 2 types playing together (i.e. Can+Henderson). However an attacking CM can be used in 4-2-3-1 in the #10 role - that's what Pochettino often does with Dembele at Spurs or we can just remember Gerrard in his prime. Stevie left such a void, that we never really replaced him with another attacking CM, which in time made our attack less purposeful and direct and more prone to pointless tip-toeing around the box. I think this is why Klopp has apparently considered an attacking CM to be his priority purchase this summer.
1. Holding midfielder (anchor): Can (1st choice), Lucas and Stewart (back-ups). This is a player who mostly holds their position in front of a back 4 and whose main job is to break up attacks.
2. Roaming/passing midfielder: Henderson (1st choice when fit), Milner and Brannagan (back-ups). This is the closest thing to a playmaker, but in Klopp's system this player also needs to be an energetic runner. I think Dahoud would fall into this category as well.
3. Attacking CM: Allen* and Grujic. Obviously this is where Wijnaldum fits in. Zielinski was supposed to fill the same need. Last season Milner was often used in that role, with mixed success (good assist numbers; not enough goal-scoring threat).
*Allen is an interesting case, because apparently Rodgers and Klopp have completely different perspectives on him as a player. Rodgers used Allen primarily as a passing metronome (category #2) or out of necessity as a holding player (category #1), which in my opinion didn't work at all and was a prime example of Rodgers' defensive naïveté. By contrast, Klopp only saw Allen as suitable to category #3 - so in those rare games Allen was playing, he was operating much closer to the opposition goal than at any time under Rodgers. Klopp values athleticism in his midfielders, so using Allen as a holding midfielder would be a non-starter for him while as a playmaker Allen is too reliant on short passing for Klopp's liking. This shows that the categories above can be very subjective, even for the professionals.
A couple more things on the attacking CM role. This position exists only in 4-3-3 type systems; in 4-2-3-1 it will probably be midfielders of the first 2 types playing together (i.e. Can+Henderson). However an attacking CM can be used in 4-2-3-1 in the #10 role - that's what Pochettino often does with Dembele at Spurs or we can just remember Gerrard in his prime. Stevie left such a void, that we never really replaced him with another attacking CM, which in time made our attack less purposeful and direct and more prone to pointless tip-toeing around the box. I think this is why Klopp has apparently considered an attacking CM to be his priority purchase this summer.
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Fantastic example Moron, could I also refer you to Sir Bernard Massingbird III a self styled hard man known as much for his post match shenanigans with the ladies in Shields Gentlemans club of Chelsea as his bone crunching tackles for Woolwich Arsenal in pre-great war London.
I often think back and wonder if we had signed him when he was relegated with Preston North End in 1908 would we really have taken so long to win the FA cup.
Another perfect example of why signing players from relegated clubs is a practical no brainer.
You fucking spastic.
After Wijnaldum (if it happens) I would think only one more (bar any youngsters bought for development), a left back.
Because we need class players ? If he's an upgrade on those we have already (Allen, Milner, Henderson) then I'm all for it.
............... Can
... Grujic ....... Wijnaldum
I'd like to see that at some stage (LC or FAC).
Excellent player, and will come at a reasonable price.
All those bolded names above. So uninspiring. We'll never get anywhere if they play a major role. Milner has been bang average really. Henderson the same. Lucas and Stewart, enough said.
Your scouting stock has soared on these boards since you picked Griezmann a few years back.
And those goal numbers are very good.
Sold!
As for Wijnaldum as a player, I think it's perfectly OK to have some questions about a player coming from a badly underachieving side (his national team is underachieving too). There is no doubt about his technical quality, but he will need to prove he can be a fighter and a winner. Liverpool is not a good place for fair-weather players.
His stats from last season:
His shots on target last season:
His shots on target last season:
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Dembele plays more in the 2, no?
Also, I think the days of the one focal point attacking CM are gone, and not just because of Gerrard's departure. Teams figured out how to nullify a 10, just like they figured out how to sit deep and defend against the attacking 3 in a 4-3-3.
Your 10, 7 and 11 have to be able to interchange and threaten* against deep-lying defences, and play around the opposition's defensive mid.
*So we had revolving attacking mids last year but they didn't threaten enough. It's all fair and well tippy-tappying, but you need a bit of thrust. We had too little of it.
Also, this continual purchase of attacking mids is as much a defensive ploy as it is an attacking one. The attacking mids win the ball back primarily in Klopp's gegenpressing system. They're the ones that target and harass the opposition when they get it, and have their back to goal. That shit gets tiring after a while, so you need plenty of the likes of Lallana, Firmino, Ings, Mane, this Wijnaldum chap, etc because the longer we can chase and press, the more likely we are to get openings.
Looking at our pre-season games and the signings, I'm convinced we'll see a 4-3-2-1 more than a 4-2-3-1.
Klopp's clearly looking for more robustness, pace and strength in the centre (which might explain Allen possibly leaving). He's probably trying to ensure we don't get bossed off the pitch at places like West Ham and Stoke.
Can in the centre of the 3 flanked by Wijnaldum on the one side and Henderson on the other. Then you have Grugic and Milner who can effortlessly fit into these roles as well.
Klopp's clearly looking for more robustness, pace and strength in the centre (which might explain Allen possibly leaving). He's probably trying to ensure we don't get bossed off the pitch at places like West Ham and Stoke.
Can in the centre of the 3 flanked by Wijnaldum on the one side and Henderson on the other. Then you have Grugic and Milner who can effortlessly fit into these roles as well.
Heh, if you're looking for inspiration among the back-up holding midfielders, you're always going to be disappointed 😀 This is the ultimate water-carrier role in football; of course a player like Can brings something extra (that's why we love him). But the back-ups will never be glamorous – even in the team that won Champions League in 2005 our back-up CMs were fucking Biscan and Smicer.
I do agree with you that we need an upgrade in the passing/roaming/playmaker department. For me Hendo at his best is fine; the problem is that we didn't see him at his best for more than a year. If we get Dahoud or another of Klopp's first-choice targets next year to replace, say, Milner then I'll be quite happy with our options.
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On the back of our last two buys from Newcastle, what can possibly go wrong?
For me no, I think the best feature of Dembele is his ability to power forward with the ball at his feet – he is more of a runner than a passer. So it's just an example how a nominal CM (with powerful physique to match) can play at #10 at times with good effect. So I see Wijnaldum playing a similar role – shuffling between a 3rd CM and a #10. He is physically less powerful than Dembele, but he can rely on his quick feet and great sense of balance to drive forward. The reason his balance is so good is because he started in sports as a gymnast – that's why his leap and balance in the air contribute to a lot of headed goals, despite a height of 175cm.
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I guess the main concern here is that he's clearly not Klopp's first or even second choice. I wonder where he started on the list.
Good player and I don't think we'll ever think of him as a waste either in terms of squad place or fees spent but like almost everyone else in the side is more of a 7/10 type player.
If we get the whole greater than the sum of our parts thing going on, great, but I'd be more confident if we could get someone in to compete alongside Sturridge and Coutinho in terms of talent and influence.
Good player and I don't think we'll ever think of him as a waste either in terms of squad place or fees spent but like almost everyone else in the side is more of a 7/10 type player.
If we get the whole greater than the sum of our parts thing going on, great, but I'd be more confident if we could get someone in to compete alongside Sturridge and Coutinho in terms of talent and influence.
That's a really weird part. We could have had Zielinski for significantly less than Wejnaldum – the player really wanted to come here, but we were not willing to go above £9.5M (I know that Udinese accepted an identical bid from Italian teams but rejected ours). So maybe the initial impression that Zielinski was a priority target was not really accurate... I can't really explain why we turned to Wijnaldum only now, after missing out on a lower-priced target. Did Klopp change his mind during the pre-season?
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Enrique.
Hamann before that, mind.
Hamann before that, mind.
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