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FSG

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tomasjj said:
Something is rotten inside the club. That has been clear for a while. The decent performances glossed over that, until last year when the wheels came off proper.
The signs were there, and the previous poor planning and execution shows this: the lack of refreshing the aging squad gradually, the leaving of Edwards, Ward, the analytics head etc., the latest in a series of transfer mayhems.

It is FSG's job to fix it and get the structure back in place. Klopp and his team might also have to eat some humble pie, as they cannot fill these holes.

Btw, where is this Mike Gordon that Klopp seemingly worked well together with?
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I’m tempted to say that things started to go off the rails when Billy Hogan was promoted to replace Peter Moore, followed by Mike Gordon taking a step back.

Hogan took over during the pandemic, so that would be as we were reaching that League winning peak.

Since then, we’ve seen a revolving door of back room staff and stagnation.

Hogan’s been at the club for a long time, apparently he was part of the FSG bid team that bought out Hicks & Gillette - don’t know much about him other than he came through the commercial side of the business - but you’d have to say, commercially things have been great, but there’s definitely been an issue non-commercially.
 
For years we were fed a neverending stream of articles extolling Klopp's willingness to recognize and assimilate the qualities, ideas and innovation in those around him, from the transfer committee to
the nutritionist to the throw in coach. In quick succession, Mike Gordon and Michael Edwards have stepped down or left and now we've told Klopp has been running the football operations by himself. Something just doesn't add up.
 
i_rushie said:
For years we were fed a neverending stream of articles extolling Klopp's willingness to recognize and assimilate the qualities, ideas and innovation in those around him, from the transfer committee to
the nutritionist to the throw in coach. In quick succession, Mike Gordon and Michael Edwards have stepped down or left and now we've told Klopp has been running the football operations by himself. Something just doesn't add up.
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I read now that as of this spring, when the FSG takeover didn't happen, Mike Gordon is back to being involved in LFC.
 
Halmeister said:
That's the big 'IF' though, isn't it?

I think FSG have lost a bit of interest when it comes to putting in the work to make us best in class. They can sit over in Boston and watch the revenue roll in without too much heavy lifting.

If they wanted to sort this out, they'd need to knuckle down and start from scratch again. After the Super League went tits up, I don't know how much they can be arsed restructuring the club.

Just my opinion of course.
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I've read a bit online the last few days pinning the Edwards/Ward/Graham departures as symptomatic of Klopp gaining more prominence, and that's probably true, but I also agree that FSG have become less interested; Klopp's desire to become more central to decision-making wouldn't really have mattered if FSG had been backing Edwards (assuming that's why he left, maybe it's bull).

I suspect Edwards left for the reasons he stated - he just wanted a break as he seems the sort of person who would have been working 60 hour weeks and obsessing over detail; but Ward and Graham left because they weren't really being backed.

Anyway, unless FSG re-engage or sell to someone who will, we are fucked.
 
The normal one said:
So you think Klopp didn’t want any midfielders last season.
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This. FFS this. The idea that the manager who put us back on our ******* perch again took leave of his senses overnight is ludicrous. The owners lowered the boom on spending and he had to put a brave face on things, end of. We've all had to go in to bat for decisions our bosses above us have made which we didn't agree with.

A pound to a penny says that's also why there's been such an exodus of the backroom staff and that THAT's why Klopp's been taking more on. From Day One he's been all about the collective, everyone pulling together. To me it defies belief that he'd flip on that. He's taken more on because they left, not the other way round.
 
I am not sure it is so black and white, JJ.
We had many midfielders on phat contracts, some of them because Klopp pushed for pushed for their contract renewals. We also had several duds like Ox, Keita on phat contracts who did not contribute. Blame lies on several parties here.
 
tomasjj said:
I am not sure it is so black and white, JJ.
We had many midfielders on phat contracts, some of them because Klopp pushed for pushed for their contract renewals. We also had several duds like Ox, Keita on phat contracts who did not contribute. Blame lies on several parties here.
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What happened is a matter of record. To me the crucial point is why. You can either believe (A) Klopp pushed for those renewals because his previously proven football insight suddenly dropped off a cliff for no discernible reason, or (B) you can believe he did so because those above him wouldn't buy the players he - and the backroom staff - knew we needed, and he wasn't prepared to spend for the sake of spending on lesser players who wouldn't cut it. I know which I think is the more plausible explanation, and it ain't option A.
 
Klopp has also had to work with what he has. He may have not seen the point of selling players if there is no viable alternative replacements being offered.

Edwards is being spun as some sort of genius now and Klopp as a mega lo maniac control freak.
Klopp has worked with tight DOF structure befire such as Dortmund and has huge amount of respect by Zorc and a like. Klopp has been hugely loyal and not sure see any evidence to counter that. The DOFs apart from Edwards we had haven’t been great anyway…

All I see is a bored FSG whom have added further sporting franchises since they brought us, the responsibility falls on them yet we are now looking on the one man whom is holding it all together.
 
Halmeister said:
Leicester won the league and were relegated, what, 6/7 years later. Just because we won the league doesn't mean they get to take their foot off the gas forever...
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Absolutely. For the top clubs (including us way back when), the attitude was 'we won the league. So what? We have to win it again now'.

Retaining it is the big challenge, and we failed miserably at that.

I remember when we won the league and all the pundits, even the ones who hate us, were pretty much in agreement that we would be set to dominate everything for a good few years. There is no doubt we took several wrong turns then.
 
Would be interesting to hear why Edwards, Ward and Graham left. We definitely need to bring in a long term sporting director and give him funds to plan for the present and future.
 
Hansern said:
Would be interesting to hear why Edwards, Ward and Graham left. We definitely need to bring in a long term sporting director and give him funds to plan for the present and future.
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I think there's a better chance of Ryan returning to post on SCM than that happening.
 
Judge Jules said:
What happened is a matter of record. To me the crucial point is why. You can either believe (A) Klopp pushed for those renewals because his previously proven football insight suddenly dropped off a cliff for no discernible reason, or (B) you can believe he did so because those above him wouldn't buy the players he - and the backroom staff - knew we needed, and he wasn't prepared to spend for the sake of spending on lesser players who wouldn't cut it. I know which I think is the more plausible explanation, and it ain't option A.
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The two explanations you list are presented as a definite either or, a bit of a false choice I think.
 
Well, I'm happy to listen to specific alternative suggestions, and I promise to say so if I reckon they seem convincing.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Just don't see it anymore mate - and for anyone who follows baseball, you'll see what happens when their teams drop off ... and that's without relegation or transfer fees.
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I agree that its difficult to see that type of strategy under FSG. Need them to move on.
 
Judge Jules said:
What happened is a matter of record. To me the crucial point is why. You can either believe (A) Klopp pushed for those renewals because his previously proven football insight suddenly dropped off a cliff for no discernible reason, or (B) you can believe he did so because those above him wouldn't buy the players he - and the backroom staff - knew we needed, and he wasn't prepared to spend for the sake of spending on lesser players who wouldn't cut it. I know which I think is the more plausible explanation, and it ain't option A.
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JJ, respectfully, what is on the record is that he greenlit renewals for a number of stalwarts, and express statements to the press that "we have eight midfielders, we still have enough midfielders. It is not that we lack midfielders, but it’s just that some of them are injured.

Everything else, including the whole of your option B is a matter of conclusion and conjecture. I don't say this to persuade you otherwise; you've long made your positiin clear on this and you're perfectly entitled to stick to your opinion despite the record, but if true, then we'd have to question whether Klopp is just a duplicitous corporate slave prepared to lie to the fans in service of his capitalist overlords.
 
Sure I intentionally exaggerated that premise. Whatever the answer, that too is a matter of conclusion and conjecture, not the record.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Just don't see it anymore mate - and for anyone who follows baseball, you'll see what happens when their teams drop off ... and that's without relegation or transfer fees.
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i think we need to send a big breasted woman round to give you some hugs
 
Waiting for the inevitable Boston Red Sox comparison any moment now. Think they're angry at Henry as well for something or another.
 
reuque said:
Waiting for the inevitable Boston Red Sox comparison any moment now. Think they're angry at Henry as well for something or another.
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They're pissed after 3 world series (which ended the Bambino's curse), they're just not close anymore to competing ... It's been a big fall, but with baseball (or any American sport for that matter), rebuilding is about drafting well and the right FA Pick ups.
 
Judge Jules said:
Well, I'm happy to listen to specific alternative suggestions, and I promise to say so if I reckon they seem convincing.
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I just think it isn't as clear as FSG are culpable for the mess, Klopp not, which I suspect you also agree with?

We have limited info, and what is out there is difficult to separate what can be seen as mostly true and what is not.
Most of the time, I think Klopp protects the owners in the media, other times, he protects himself.

The most worrying thing though, is that FSG seem to have less interest in the project, hence the staff leaving not being properly replaced, and strategy becoming less focussed.
 
Markeh said:
For all the FFP breaking horrible plastic club abuse that’s getting flung at Chelsea right now they’re better run than us currently and it all comes from the top. They have an owner getting laughed at a year ago but he’s present, interested and seems to be a big part of whatever strategies they’ve got going on to allow them to spend like no other.

Time will tell if it works for them but it feels massively different to FSG doing the minimum from afar.
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Like hell are they well run! Unless throwing billions at a trillion players and hoping it sticks is a model you admire. You need to read more of Beamriders posts.
 
Frogfish said:
Like hell are they well run! Unless throwing billions at a trillion players and hoping it sticks is a model you admire. You need to read more of Beamriders posts.
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I covered that in the last sentence, it might not work for them. Don’t put words into my mouth that I’m admiring anything, I’m pointing out their ability to formulate a strategy and move forward with it when we seemingly can’t do that.
 
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