Yeah, I guess this "sustainable model" has remained the same as their investment has increased sixfold in value or more.
FSG
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Yeah, I guess this "sustainable model" has remained the same as their investment has increased sixfold in value or more.
My worst fear falling into place...
Feb 2023
http://sixcrazyminutes.com/threads/klopp-needs-to-loook-at-himself.192281/page-22#post-2198506
Feb 2023
http://sixcrazyminutes.com/threads/klopp-needs-to-loook-at-himself.192281/page-22#post-2198506
I just noticed what I said two posts down.
End of an era. Yup sounds about right.
End of an era. Yup sounds about right.
Fucking binny man. Man knows all
For all the FFP breaking horrible plastic club abuse that’s getting flung at Chelsea right now they’re better run than us currently and it all comes from the top. They have an owner getting laughed at a year ago but he’s present, interested and seems to be a big part of whatever strategies they’ve got going on to allow them to spend like no other.
Time will tell if it works for them but it feels massively different to FSG doing the minimum from afar.
Time will tell if it works for them but it feels massively different to FSG doing the minimum from afar.
To be fair it was a cracking atmosphere at Anfield last time we wanted rid of our owners.
They don't care about Rafa
They don's care about fans
Liverpool football club
Is in the wrong hands
Liverpool latest:
Media now reporting about LFC being offered Enzo for £15m from River in summer 2022
•Guimarães identified as the Wijnaldum replacement (can play 6/8) - rejected
•Enzo identified as the Thiago deputy/successor - rejected
Edwards did not want to renew Henderson and Milner. He had identified Guimarães (from Lyon) and Enzo (from River) as players to buy. That was enough for Edwards/Graham - they left.
Media now reporting about LFC being offered Enzo for £15m from River in summer 2022
•Guimarães identified as the Wijnaldum replacement (can play 6/8) - rejected
•Enzo identified as the Thiago deputy/successor - rejected
Edwards did not want to renew Henderson and Milner. He had identified Guimarães (from Lyon) and Enzo (from River) as players to buy. That was enough for Edwards/Graham - they left.
Obviously these hit stories are opportunistic. But we certainly are not the club we were a few years ago.
Edwards is not fault free either, seems just opportunist now all this.
Wasn’t Edwards the same DOF who signed two unknown CBs in Dec 2020 when we had no fit CB? Hendo after signing his new contract, lifted the quadruple? What then of Edwards decision? Didn’t Edwards recommend Ward as the DOF to FSG as his immediate successor?
We actually don't need them to start spending hundreds of millions. Just keep doing what they were doing like 4 or 5 years ago. Spend a bit, but less than the oil barons and within our means. But spend smart. They're not doing any of that now.
The next stars are out there and they're not at the massive clubs yet. We should be the best at getting them before everyone gets interested with all the inflated and gratuitous fees. It can be done. They just got lazy and tight.
The next stars are out there and they're not at the massive clubs yet. We should be the best at getting them before everyone gets interested with all the inflated and gratuitous fees. It can be done. They just got lazy and tight.
So you think Klopp didn’t want any midfielders last season.
When we are
When we are in the bottom 3.
The hit stories are coming out because people are throwing each other under the bus. It smells.
Just got reminded of this article by Reddy in Feb this year:
Liverpool: How Jurgen Klopp's Reds have been hurt on the pitch by a 'brain drain' off it
[article]When the news of Edwards' exit was announced, Liverpool flagged "continuity and a well-managed transition period" in appointing Julian Ward as successor.
But he handed in his resignation in November, leaves at the end of the season, and will have only been in the post for a year.
Worryingly, Ian Graham, the esteemed director of research widely regarded as the best in the field, is also exiting Liverpool.
It has been said the pair "no longer feel empowered to do their jobs to the best of their ability."[/article]
[article]
There has been a steady "brain drain," categorising Liverpool not just as a team in transition but a club in one.
"There is a lot of focus on not refreshing the playing squad enough, which is correct but it is true behind the scenes too," said an employee.
"A lot of key people have left, some have gained too much power. There's less faith in the decisions now." [/article]
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This has a bit of the Leicester City feeling to it, in respect of they won the title and never really reinvested in players (not throught lack of trying) and therefor never won the title again...
We won the title,CL, WCC and have failed to really invest in players the likes Bellingham, Rice, Casemiro; and it will too be a long time before we win the Title or CL again... Life under FSG
We won the title,CL, WCC and have failed to really invest in players the likes Bellingham, Rice, Casemiro; and it will too be a long time before we win the Title or CL again... Life under FSG
We are quick to Identify player but oh so slow to approach them and put in a offer
So for those still clinging on to that misplaced faith and optimism with regards to FSG, and for those desperately trying to convince themselves this latest transfer fiasco is not as bad as it looks, I will refer you to this following post going forward...
We could probably start as far back as just after our champions league win. I remember myself and a couple of others saying that now was the time to strengthen. Strengthen while you're on top. Add quality to quality as you go along.
We signed Sepp Van Den Berg in the summer, then Minamino in the January.
Sure, we won the league, but still, a lot of us knew our chickens would be coming home to roost in a few years if we didn't plan for the inevitable decline.
We seemed to make a bit of an attempt at guarding against that. Players like Jota, Konate, Diaz came in and have proven to be decent buys that supplemented the squad. Still, the fact remained that much of that spine was all of a similar age and profile, and if we weren't careful, we'd need to rebuild the entire side all in one go.
We let Lovren go and didn't replace him. Now, I hated the cunt, but expecting Gomez and Matip to stay fit and not get a 4th centre back in was sheer folly. Of course, Weetabix legs and cardboard shins got injured, and then we were scrambling about last minute for any old random. We ended up with Ben Davies who didn't play a minute, Kabak who stunk, and Fabinho and Henderson as centre backs at times. Nat Phillips and Rhys fucking Williams had to step up in the end. Lack of foresight and risk analysis almost cost us a Champions League spot. Thankfully, our fucking goalkeeper scoring a 95th minute winner had a big hand in keeping us in the Champions League. Phew! Close one. Let's not have that happen again, eh?
At some point, Michael Edwards leaves and Julian Ward comes in. I wasn't too thrilled with that, but hey, maybe he's developed into the man for the job.
The midfield is a couple of years older. We're still reliant on Henderson, Fabinho, geriatric Milner, an injury prone Thiago who, for me at least, took us on an unnecessary detour away from what had worked for us before, crocks in Keita and Ox who may as well have not been there, and a couple of kids in Elliott and Jones. We have a good season, nearly win the quad, but we need to start rebuilding that midfield and adding quality from a position of strength.
We go for Tchouameni. He chooses Madrid. Fair enough, that can happen. We decide he's the only guy for us and decide to wait another year. That makes me uncomfortable. In the meantime, we become enamoured with Bellingham and embark on a 2 year courtship of the player.
We settle for a little "cost-effective" gamble in Arthur Melo when things get a little nervous and twitchy. He's a stopgap until Jude signs afterall. In the words of Tony Stark, "not a great plan".
Our midfield falls to bits and it is clear as day for everyone to see that it's an absolute must to strengthen in time for the following season, lest we get left behind and cut adrift. A season outside of the Champions League isn't great, but we'll sort it in the summer and we'll be back.
Julian Ward leaves at some point under mysterious circumstances and no replacement comes in.
The season ends and EVERYONE knows we need a midfielder. Not to worry. That long courtship of Bellingham will bear fruit, right? Nope. Off to Real Madrid. Oh well, that can happen. Let's look elsewhere. Not ideal, but at least we have some good pros that we can add some youth to and help the latter develop and flourish.
Jorg Schmadtke (who!?) comes in for 3 months.
Mac Allister and Szobo sign after we trigger their release clauses. Good stuff. Pretty straight forward.
Lavia... right okay. 19. Young. A prospect. Not played many games, but has a high ceiling. Plays defensive mid where we're already desperate after the glaring holes were made evident followimg an abysmal campaign. They want how much!? Right, let's monitor this. And prepare. And monitor. Let's try and get that fee down. Get Jorg on the phone. What do you mean he's in Ibiza? Just tell him to fax something over...
Saudi Arabia come calling for Henderson and Fabinho, offering ridiculous sums for both. They're both finished, but we need all the bodies we can get in their positions. Fine, let them go, but let's be smart about this. It's a crucial area that we need to improve, that much was made obvious last season. We look at Thuram as well but back out for whatever reason. Too expensive? Balk! Probably.
We needed a DM before Henderson and Fabinho left, everyone knows we're desperate, but FSG hate being taken to the cleaners. Who doesn't love a little haggle, barter and a bargain? Time to shine. Let's spend months pretending we're skint so that we can knock Southampton down from £50m to about £46m. Sure, we're Liverpool. Sure, we can afford it. Yeah £4m over 5 years isn't a lot. Especially when you've already committed £40m plus. But by GOD do we love a thrifty bargain. Besides, the player is desperate for us and nobody else is interested. We hold all the cards.
Fast forward through tedious weeks of incremental bids, stringing the poor lad along and pissing Southampton off, and quite frankly, fucking ourselves over because this is all time that could've been used getting Lavia integrated into our squad and getting used to the way we play. But no, think of the back pats we'll be able to give ourselves when we knock a few quid off.
Suddenly we receive a call from Caicedo's (dodgy as fuck) agent. Yeah, he's gonna cost us, but Chelsea are stalling, he's a great player, and Klopp is a big fan. Forget wheeling and dealing! Do a 180! Break the bank! These completely reputable and trustworthy FOOTBALL AGENTS from SOUTH AMERICA have assured us he'll join us. Swerve Lavia. Never wanted him anyway. BREAK ALL RECORDS FOR CAICEDO! Klopp, do a presser and tell them it's all gravy.
Turns out we got played. Caicedo was never interested in us, we were needed as a stalking horse to get Chelsea to make a bid that Brighton would accept. Mission accomplished. And, oh, we've pissed off Chelsea - these dodgy lunatics with bottomless pits of cash - and now, just for trying to fuck with them, they're going to throw money at Lavia.
Speaking of whom, Lavia's now been made to feel like a right fucking mug as Liverpool have spent what seems like months arguing over pennies, before whipping their (tiny) dick out and placing it on the corner of the table in a bid to entice Caicedo. Problem is, Caicedo had already eyed up Chelsea stroking that 12 inch schlong from across the room. Lavia will still come to us, though, right? Right!?
Wrong. Chelsea put in a better offer than we have all summer, and in a last pathetic, desperate attempt to land someone we've already made feel subpar, we throw in a bid well over what we were ever willing to pay in the first place. Business 101. Lavia, understandably, chooses Chelsea. More money, longer contract, maybe during the negotiations they didn't make him feel like chopped liver? I don't know.
Jorg is probably still in Ibiza. Or Deepdale carpark. Who knows.
So, here we are. Everyone has known for years we're desperate for a central midfielder. Up until now, we'd done a good job of convincing the world we were skint.
But upon revealing our transfer kitty and desperation, we've also revealed something much more deep-rooted and cancerous. We don't have a fucking strategy any more. We don't have a plan. We don't even look like we're trying to formulate one. We used to be the standard bearer for how to get deals done quickly, efficiently and ruthlessly. Now, we're even second choice to a Chelsea in turmoil. Even when we can offer more playing time.
We've outed ourselves as cash rich and common sense deprived in a shark tank. Yeah, I'm mixing my metaphors, but fuck it. It's quite apt when discussing these owners, the transfer committee and the club as a whole at the minute. It's a fucking mess. We're ripe for fleecing and we're no longer the prospect we once were.
There was a time when the lure of the badge, of Klopp, of Anfield was enough to sway almost anyone. I didn't think it would end so quickly. And I'm not sure we're capable of pulling that back.
TLDR: We're shit and fucked.
We could probably start as far back as just after our champions league win. I remember myself and a couple of others saying that now was the time to strengthen. Strengthen while you're on top. Add quality to quality as you go along.
We signed Sepp Van Den Berg in the summer, then Minamino in the January.
Sure, we won the league, but still, a lot of us knew our chickens would be coming home to roost in a few years if we didn't plan for the inevitable decline.
We seemed to make a bit of an attempt at guarding against that. Players like Jota, Konate, Diaz came in and have proven to be decent buys that supplemented the squad. Still, the fact remained that much of that spine was all of a similar age and profile, and if we weren't careful, we'd need to rebuild the entire side all in one go.
We let Lovren go and didn't replace him. Now, I hated the cunt, but expecting Gomez and Matip to stay fit and not get a 4th centre back in was sheer folly. Of course, Weetabix legs and cardboard shins got injured, and then we were scrambling about last minute for any old random. We ended up with Ben Davies who didn't play a minute, Kabak who stunk, and Fabinho and Henderson as centre backs at times. Nat Phillips and Rhys fucking Williams had to step up in the end. Lack of foresight and risk analysis almost cost us a Champions League spot. Thankfully, our fucking goalkeeper scoring a 95th minute winner had a big hand in keeping us in the Champions League. Phew! Close one. Let's not have that happen again, eh?
At some point, Michael Edwards leaves and Julian Ward comes in. I wasn't too thrilled with that, but hey, maybe he's developed into the man for the job.
The midfield is a couple of years older. We're still reliant on Henderson, Fabinho, geriatric Milner, an injury prone Thiago who, for me at least, took us on an unnecessary detour away from what had worked for us before, crocks in Keita and Ox who may as well have not been there, and a couple of kids in Elliott and Jones. We have a good season, nearly win the quad, but we need to start rebuilding that midfield and adding quality from a position of strength.
We go for Tchouameni. He chooses Madrid. Fair enough, that can happen. We decide he's the only guy for us and decide to wait another year. That makes me uncomfortable. In the meantime, we become enamoured with Bellingham and embark on a 2 year courtship of the player.
We settle for a little "cost-effective" gamble in Arthur Melo when things get a little nervous and twitchy. He's a stopgap until Jude signs afterall. In the words of Tony Stark, "not a great plan".
Our midfield falls to bits and it is clear as day for everyone to see that it's an absolute must to strengthen in time for the following season, lest we get left behind and cut adrift. A season outside of the Champions League isn't great, but we'll sort it in the summer and we'll be back.
Julian Ward leaves at some point under mysterious circumstances and no replacement comes in.
The season ends and EVERYONE knows we need a midfielder. Not to worry. That long courtship of Bellingham will bear fruit, right? Nope. Off to Real Madrid. Oh well, that can happen. Let's look elsewhere. Not ideal, but at least we have some good pros that we can add some youth to and help the latter develop and flourish.
Jorg Schmadtke (who!?) comes in for 3 months.
Mac Allister and Szobo sign after we trigger their release clauses. Good stuff. Pretty straight forward.
Lavia... right okay. 19. Young. A prospect. Not played many games, but has a high ceiling. Plays defensive mid where we're already desperate after the glaring holes were made evident followimg an abysmal campaign. They want how much!? Right, let's monitor this. And prepare. And monitor. Let's try and get that fee down. Get Jorg on the phone. What do you mean he's in Ibiza? Just tell him to fax something over...
Saudi Arabia come calling for Henderson and Fabinho, offering ridiculous sums for both. They're both finished, but we need all the bodies we can get in their positions. Fine, let them go, but let's be smart about this. It's a crucial area that we need to improve, that much was made obvious last season. We look at Thuram as well but back out for whatever reason. Too expensive? Balk! Probably.
We needed a DM before Henderson and Fabinho left, everyone knows we're desperate, but FSG hate being taken to the cleaners. Who doesn't love a little haggle, barter and a bargain? Time to shine. Let's spend months pretending we're skint so that we can knock Southampton down from £50m to about £46m. Sure, we're Liverpool. Sure, we can afford it. Yeah £4m over 5 years isn't a lot. Especially when you've already committed £40m plus. But by GOD do we love a thrifty bargain. Besides, the player is desperate for us and nobody else is interested. We hold all the cards.
Fast forward through tedious weeks of incremental bids, stringing the poor lad along and pissing Southampton off, and quite frankly, fucking ourselves over because this is all time that could've been used getting Lavia integrated into our squad and getting used to the way we play. But no, think of the back pats we'll be able to give ourselves when we knock a few quid off.
Suddenly we receive a call from Caicedo's (dodgy as fuck) agent. Yeah, he's gonna cost us, but Chelsea are stalling, he's a great player, and Klopp is a big fan. Forget wheeling and dealing! Do a 180! Break the bank! These completely reputable and trustworthy FOOTBALL AGENTS from SOUTH AMERICA have assured us he'll join us. Swerve Lavia. Never wanted him anyway. BREAK ALL RECORDS FOR CAICEDO! Klopp, do a presser and tell them it's all gravy.
Turns out we got played. Caicedo was never interested in us, we were needed as a stalking horse to get Chelsea to make a bid that Brighton would accept. Mission accomplished. And, oh, we've pissed off Chelsea - these dodgy lunatics with bottomless pits of cash - and now, just for trying to fuck with them, they're going to throw money at Lavia.
Speaking of whom, Lavia's now been made to feel like a right fucking mug as Liverpool have spent what seems like months arguing over pennies, before whipping their (tiny) dick out and placing it on the corner of the table in a bid to entice Caicedo. Problem is, Caicedo had already eyed up Chelsea stroking that 12 inch schlong from across the room. Lavia will still come to us, though, right? Right!?
Wrong. Chelsea put in a better offer than we have all summer, and in a last pathetic, desperate attempt to land someone we've already made feel subpar, we throw in a bid well over what we were ever willing to pay in the first place. Business 101. Lavia, understandably, chooses Chelsea. More money, longer contract, maybe during the negotiations they didn't make him feel like chopped liver? I don't know.
Jorg is probably still in Ibiza. Or Deepdale carpark. Who knows.
So, here we are. Everyone has known for years we're desperate for a central midfielder. Up until now, we'd done a good job of convincing the world we were skint.
But upon revealing our transfer kitty and desperation, we've also revealed something much more deep-rooted and cancerous. We don't have a fucking strategy any more. We don't have a plan. We don't even look like we're trying to formulate one. We used to be the standard bearer for how to get deals done quickly, efficiently and ruthlessly. Now, we're even second choice to a Chelsea in turmoil. Even when we can offer more playing time.
We've outed ourselves as cash rich and common sense deprived in a shark tank. Yeah, I'm mixing my metaphors, but fuck it. It's quite apt when discussing these owners, the transfer committee and the club as a whole at the minute. It's a fucking mess. We're ripe for fleecing and we're no longer the prospect we once were.
There was a time when the lure of the badge, of Klopp, of Anfield was enough to sway almost anyone. I didn't think it would end so quickly. And I'm not sure we're capable of pulling that back.
TLDR: We're shit and fucked.
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So I agree with all of that…
but we still have a bloody good team.
we still have a great manager.
They are adrift in terms of club management
But it can be resurrected. With one or two good DM buys. We need a little perspective here.
We’ve lost our way a bit but if FSG get their act together in the next 3 weeks maaaaaybe
but we still have a bloody good team.
we still have a great manager.
They are adrift in terms of club management
But it can be resurrected. With one or two good DM buys. We need a little perspective here.
We’ve lost our way a bit but if FSG get their act together in the next 3 weeks maaaaaybe
I agree with everything Hal posted above. But we can get back if we act quickly. Either be bold and get a young talented DM for reasonable money or suck it up and pay what it takes to get someone like Doucore. I really rate Bajcetic but it will be cruel expecting him to play 50 games this season.
Then assemble the background team and have it ready to go for January or summer. If we spend the next two weeks searching for "value" and sacrifice this season also, backlash against FSG will be intense.
Then assemble the background team and have it ready to go for January or summer. If we spend the next two weeks searching for "value" and sacrifice this season also, backlash against FSG will be intense.
That's the big 'IF' though, isn't it?
I think FSG have lost a bit of interest when it comes to putting in the work to make us best in class. They can sit over in Boston and watch the revenue roll in without too much heavy lifting.
If they wanted to sort this out, they'd need to knuckle down and start from scratch again. After the Super League went tits up, I don't know how much they can be arsed restructuring the club.
Just my opinion of course.
I think FSG have lost a bit of interest when it comes to putting in the work to make us best in class. They can sit over in Boston and watch the revenue roll in without too much heavy lifting.
If they wanted to sort this out, they'd need to knuckle down and start from scratch again. After the Super League went tits up, I don't know how much they can be arsed restructuring the club.
Just my opinion of course.
We have a good first ten.
We have a big gaping granny gash hole where a top DM should be.
Behind that first ten.. we are stocked up top. Midfield and defence is full of kids and crocks.
Threadbare squad if you will.
How much of this falls on Klopp?
He bought a no.9, then shunted him out to the left, before deciding it would be best leaving him off the team altogether;
Bought a left winger who shone at the World Cup as a no.10, played him there when scrapping the no.9 experiment with first aforementioned player, and then shifts him into midfield after half a year;
Buys a World cup winning attacking midfielder who received acclaim for intelligent passing in the final third, plays him in the no.6 role;
Gets a right winger/atttacking midfielder renowned for his longe ranged shooting for one of our famously conservative no.8 roles;
Has the notoriously injury prone Konate to play as CB while covering when RB goes walkabout;
TAA remans the beneficiary of the extra demands placed on his teammates because he had a little purple patch rotating into the DM position for about 10 games in a 38 game season (despite his ascension to vice-captaincy, not much has changed when carelessly losing the ball in midfield);
Robbo at LCB with little sign of his overlapping runs;
Persisting with a system that when populated with the Right PlayersTM , made the team much more than the sum of it parts, but when shorn of them, fails to rise above lesser lights we see in Newcastle and Brighton;
I shudder at the thought that one of Henderson or Fabinho would still have been our starting DM after last season until his hand was forced by their sales.
He bought a no.9, then shunted him out to the left, before deciding it would be best leaving him off the team altogether;
Bought a left winger who shone at the World Cup as a no.10, played him there when scrapping the no.9 experiment with first aforementioned player, and then shifts him into midfield after half a year;
Buys a World cup winning attacking midfielder who received acclaim for intelligent passing in the final third, plays him in the no.6 role;
Gets a right winger/atttacking midfielder renowned for his longe ranged shooting for one of our famously conservative no.8 roles;
Has the notoriously injury prone Konate to play as CB while covering when RB goes walkabout;
TAA remans the beneficiary of the extra demands placed on his teammates because he had a little purple patch rotating into the DM position for about 10 games in a 38 game season (despite his ascension to vice-captaincy, not much has changed when carelessly losing the ball in midfield);
Robbo at LCB with little sign of his overlapping runs;
Persisting with a system that when populated with the Right PlayersTM , made the team much more than the sum of it parts, but when shorn of them, fails to rise above lesser lights we see in Newcastle and Brighton;
I shudder at the thought that one of Henderson or Fabinho would still have been our starting DM after last season until his hand was forced by their sales.
For me the refusal to just move Trent to midfield is the biggest mistake he's made at the club. Trying to shoehorn in this hybrid role instead is completely mental. It's one or the other, there's no fudging it.
I hope I'm wrong of course. But right now I'm pretty disillusioned with the guy. I doubt the massive defensive issues we've seen again and again will be solved by just one good DM.
Something is rotten inside the club. That has been clear for a while. The decent performances glossed over that, until last year when the wheels came off proper.
The signs were there, and the previous poor planning and execution shows this: the lack of refreshing the aging squad gradually, the leaving of Edwards, Ward, the analytics head etc., the latest in a series of transfer mayhems.
It is FSG's job to fix it and get the structure back in place. Klopp and his team might also have to eat some humble pie, as they cannot fill these holes.
Btw, where is this Mike Gordon that Klopp seemingly worked well together with?
The signs were there, and the previous poor planning and execution shows this: the lack of refreshing the aging squad gradually, the leaving of Edwards, Ward, the analytics head etc., the latest in a series of transfer mayhems.
It is FSG's job to fix it and get the structure back in place. Klopp and his team might also have to eat some humble pie, as they cannot fill these holes.
Btw, where is this Mike Gordon that Klopp seemingly worked well together with?
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