1 good match against Man City + 1 good shot. Half a season gone, that's all we are holding onto to convince ourselves that we did not yet spunk millions on an average player.
Firmino
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1 good match against Man City + 1 good shot. Half a season gone, that's all we are holding onto to convince ourselves that we did not yet spunk millions on an average player.
I get the need time to settle down argument. But Firmino came from the German League, which is as close as it gets to the BPL. He is also an established international. Balo, Aquilani, Markovic were all big signings who were said to need more time at some point and we know what happened.
We saw Southampton bringing in Pelle, Tadic and Mane. They didn't need long to settle in did they? They were good solid players who continue to contribute to their team.
It is almost always just us.
We saw Southampton bringing in Pelle, Tadic and Mane. They didn't need long to settle in did they? They were good solid players who continue to contribute to their team.
It is almost always just us.
Silva, Mata, Matic, Modric, Navas and many more... all took close to a full season to get going....
One of the contributing factors to more than 70% of our new players becoming shit is that we dont provide them a setup to step in and deliver...we expect instant results and then discard them off to the shitbin when they cannot deliver from the first game.
There is more than enough I see from Firmino and Markovic there to work with...
We hang on to shit players like Lucas for more than 7 years and then have a revolving door system for players like Firmino and Markovic... No wonder we have been so shit for such a long time. The team and our new signing need to evolve to integrate these kind of players.
When Xabi and Gerrard were playing, they would have loved to have players like Firmino, Ibe, Lallana and Markovic....instead they had Pennant, Yossi and that spanish bloke whose name i forgot (not garcia), and they still managed to make something happen.
Can show prmoise and so does Henderson...so we need to bring in better players than those guys who have been here for ages and failed to deliver, so we can improve as a group.
For me Lucas and Skittles need to go. We need to work to improve the players we have invested in recently and stop playing musical chair.
Rodgers made the same mistake two seasons in a row to bring in so many new players at once and he paid the price. I hope the new manager has better sense than that....
Firmino's issue is in the head i feel...he hasnt brought his confident A game on yet.....he needs a little run of good form.
One of the contributing factors to more than 70% of our new players becoming shit is that we dont provide them a setup to step in and deliver...we expect instant results and then discard them off to the shitbin when they cannot deliver from the first game.
There is more than enough I see from Firmino and Markovic there to work with...
We hang on to shit players like Lucas for more than 7 years and then have a revolving door system for players like Firmino and Markovic... No wonder we have been so shit for such a long time. The team and our new signing need to evolve to integrate these kind of players.
When Xabi and Gerrard were playing, they would have loved to have players like Firmino, Ibe, Lallana and Markovic....instead they had Pennant, Yossi and that spanish bloke whose name i forgot (not garcia), and they still managed to make something happen.
Can show prmoise and so does Henderson...so we need to bring in better players than those guys who have been here for ages and failed to deliver, so we can improve as a group.
For me Lucas and Skittles need to go. We need to work to improve the players we have invested in recently and stop playing musical chair.
Rodgers made the same mistake two seasons in a row to bring in so many new players at once and he paid the price. I hope the new manager has better sense than that....
Firmino's issue is in the head i feel...he hasnt brought his confident A game on yet.....he needs a little run of good form.
One thing I don't understand is how crap he's been with his close ball control and dribbling. He's constantly having balls bouncing off him and getting dispossessed.
Misplaced passes I could understand, with new teammates and style possibly putting him off a bit.
But he's been pretty damned poor with the basics. Basics that you could never imagine an attacking Brazilian midfielder being shite at.
I'm starting to believe Woland's story. We need to replace all our scouts ASAP.
Misplaced passes I could understand, with new teammates and style possibly putting him off a bit.
But he's been pretty damned poor with the basics. Basics that you could never imagine an attacking Brazilian midfielder being shite at.
I'm starting to believe Woland's story. We need to replace all our scouts ASAP.
It doesn't help that he looks like a transgender Myleene Klass from a favela.
Yes the amount of ricochets off our players were just incredible. Notably from our 3 brazilians, they just can't seem to control the ball at all.
3 hours later i was watching Watford and it was like night and day; players I have not heard of were killing the ball and passing them like what the real Brazilians used to do.
I wonder if the ref checked the ball pressure before the game because both teams struggled to control a very bobbly ball in the first half. In the second half the wind picked up but both sides had no trouble, so I wonder if some adjustments had been made at half time.
Btw i had the exact same impression RE:Watford. Fighting to win the ball and getting some accurate passes through.
Yes Watford was very good, they would have beaten West Ham based on yesterday's showing.
His first touch is being investigated by Operation Yewtree
I think that's fair enough KJ and I've been as critical as anyone of Markovic and Firmino, though as someone else said, you don't get the luxury of bedding in players here, they have to be good from more or less the word go.
If you look at the difference between introductions that the likes of Suarez, Torres, Berger, Alonso, Garcia etc have had, in comparison to those two, then you can see the difference and how indulgence is a commodity many top clubs don't have. One or two quality games in one half of a season just isn't enough to justify the initial outlay, at least in the short-term.
Many of the players you mentioned had the benefit of bedding into squads that were better assembled and full of quality depth, we're signing lads who should be nurtured, but we're having to throw them in as a lifeline, in the hope that they become over-night sensations, because of injury or the amount of money we've wasted on more senior/domestic based players that just don't cut it.
We really need to sort our shit out when it comes to transfers, stop wasting £15m-£30m on players that don't have the assets to immediately make an impact and stop wasting the same again on overrated, overpriced British based junk.
Or basically, just start buying good players who fit the system, do the basics well and have the right mentality.
I'm going to give him more time. I think Klopp will too. Klopp stated recently that fans and the media don't give players times to settle and we have a habit of discarding players before they get to settle and show their worth.
I'm hoping this is the case with Firmino. Lamela is an example of a player who was allowed time to find his feet. He has significantly improved for Tottenham.
I'm hoping this is the case with Firmino. Lamela is an example of a player who was allowed time to find his feet. He has significantly improved for Tottenham.
There's nothing wrong with British-based players. We just buy the wrong players regardless of what league they play in.
Look at Alderweireld, Delle Ali, Dier, Lukaku, Stones, Vertonghen, Loris, Kane et al currently playing on Sky.
They'd all walk straight into our team, and are miles better than anything we have in the squad or first team for that matter. Certainly neither team would swap them for the likes of Lallana, Firmino, Sakho, Lucas, Milner, Benteke or Origi
Lukaku will look just as poor in our team...
We need to get some sort of clarity in our approach.
Actually the decision has been more or less made for us.
Because we invested so big in young players like Coutinho, Can, Henderson, Firmino, Markovic, Moreno, Ibe, Clyne etc, we have no choice but to make it work.....like how spurs had no choice but to stick with Lamela and make it work because of the club record figure they spent on him. Somehow we think we are above that kind of decisionmaking and keep discarding valuable talent ruining our chances as well as the players chances of doing well. We are a shit club at the moment...
bringing in a player like Benteke to that mix serves zero purpose. Yes we need experience, but its not the kind of experience Benteke brings in playing for a shit team like Villa...and its certainly not the kind of loser experience Lucas brings...it should be more along the lines of Schweinsteiger. I dont mean him exactly but a player in his mould. Id bring Alonso back and make him captain in a heart beat.....we need some sort of leader out there who can make a team out of us.
Seeing Lucas as captain just makes me want to turn the tv off.....i cannot be forced to sit through something with such hopeless despair and i shudder to think what those fans that pay the ticket price to watch such an uninspiring crap every week will feel.
We need to get some sort of clarity in our approach.
Actually the decision has been more or less made for us.
Because we invested so big in young players like Coutinho, Can, Henderson, Firmino, Markovic, Moreno, Ibe, Clyne etc, we have no choice but to make it work.....like how spurs had no choice but to stick with Lamela and make it work because of the club record figure they spent on him. Somehow we think we are above that kind of decisionmaking and keep discarding valuable talent ruining our chances as well as the players chances of doing well. We are a shit club at the moment...
bringing in a player like Benteke to that mix serves zero purpose. Yes we need experience, but its not the kind of experience Benteke brings in playing for a shit team like Villa...and its certainly not the kind of loser experience Lucas brings...it should be more along the lines of Schweinsteiger. I dont mean him exactly but a player in his mould. Id bring Alonso back and make him captain in a heart beat.....we need some sort of leader out there who can make a team out of us.
Seeing Lucas as captain just makes me want to turn the tv off.....i cannot be forced to sit through something with such hopeless despair and i shudder to think what those fans that pay the ticket price to watch such an uninspiring crap every week will feel.
What? Which ones? Every single one, plus Barkely and a few more, would go straight into our first team, because they're better - by far - than any of our players
Gosh, this could be embarrassing. Which ones wouldn't?
That is not at all what im saying. I actually think we bought some good players but refuse to give them a chance to do well. It may actually be a good thing for us to not sign anyone this Jan....as Klopp is new he wont be slaughtered if we dont finish top 4, which we most certainly will not achieve refardless of who we bring.
Also what we lack is leadership on the pitch to make it all work. If that can be addressed in Jan, that is the only thing we should aim to address..
Henderson as captain? Meh
Milner as captain??? Double Meh
Lucas as captain????? My fucking eyes....
Predictably I would agree with Portly. I am not sure the squad is as bad as we are psyching ourselves into thinking. We do have serious key injuries and a key player, Coutinho, is playing like a bit of a twat.
With Ings, Sturridge and Henderson we would look a lot different, got to say I think Gomez has been missed. We need a combative central midfielder and a decent wide player
With Ings, Sturridge and Henderson we would look a lot different, got to say I think Gomez has been missed. We need a combative central midfielder and a decent wide player
Nah, you seem to have this everything is shite agenda. I cant be bothered.
The doom and gloom crowd can continue if they/you want.
You'd want Eric fucking Dier in our team instead of Hendo/Can.
I seriously give up some times.
So, yeah. Bothered.
No, I'd have Dier available so that we never, ever have to see Lucas or Joe Allen play ever again. And the rest would go straight into the first XI, ahead of Can, Sakho, Firmino, Benteke, Origi, Milner or Lallana.
Obviously
This is an excellent post.
I made this point in the Benteke thread in pre-season - we've really done our AMs a disservice by bringing in a striker who doesn't mesh with them at all.
The PL has generally had two kinds of attacks - those based on a central pivot (like Chelsea with Drogba and Costa. I'll even add United with Rooney here. Giroud at Arsenal is another example), and those based on explosive strikers (Henry at Arsenal and Aguero at City).
Both require different kinds of AMs around them - the pivot based attacks require pacy, powerful AMs who can create goalscoring chances for themselves (like Robben, Duff, Hazard, Willian etc. or Ronaldo, Giggs at United or Sanchez and Walcott at Arsenal).
The explosive striker based attack require floaty AMs who're passers first and foremost (see Pires, Bergkamp and Llunjgberg or Silva, Nasri, De Bruyne at City).
In the Rodgers era, we clearly went for the latter kind of attack with Suarez and Sturridge. They provided pace, dynamism and individual goal-getting ability in abundance. And Rodgers rightly brought in the floaty/passing AMs to complement them - Coutinho, Alberto, Lallana, Markovic, Firmino (even though the choice of player wasn't always the best).
The problem is Suarez left, and Sturridge got perma-crocked. And instead of getting in similar strikers, we brought in pivots like Lambert, Balotelli and Benteke.
That's just creating a terrible environment for any of our AMs to succeed. It is just not their game to provide pace, dynamism and goals. Bring in someone like Lacazette or Aubameyang to lead our attack, and they'll blossom again.
That's a very good point. We have 2 issues. Firstly - we cannot compete financially with City/Chelsea/United - and have tried to find younger options - players who have not quite made the top bracket yet, but have the potential to do so. So we are throwing them in, hoping to see immediate success - but a second problem is that we are also throwing them in to a system which has been struggling to an extent. Expectations have been high, and probably unrealistic in many cases. These players have struggled, had their confidence knocked, and then been written off in many cases. However, look at Lovren, Moreno and many of the Tottenham/Everton players mentioned - not overnight successes, but players who have come good after getting time to settle in.
Of course, an additional issue is some of our recruitment. Too many similar players - seeming lack of clear strategy to playing style, and trying to bed players into positions which have not been their best. So - a cycle which is continuing to hurt us.
For me, No.
May as well play Caitlin Jenner.
May as well play Caitlin Jenner.
Is he a bad player? Probably not. He just needs half a second more on the ball like Morientes did. He belongs in Spain or Germany. Everything is against him in the PL. He is a flair player who needs time, space, a good pitch, no wind, no rain if possible.
I watched Padrick Harrington talk about where and how he learned to play golf in Ireland. It was always pissy weather with gale force winds and raining of course. He could scramble a course like that and keep the ball down. For him the big challenge was to play in mint conditions i South Africa where the ballstrikers could run free with there high approach shots and mega drives.
Firmino is one of those ballstrikers and looks like an epic fail casting in the PL.
I watched Padrick Harrington talk about where and how he learned to play golf in Ireland. It was always pissy weather with gale force winds and raining of course. He could scramble a course like that and keep the ball down. For him the big challenge was to play in mint conditions i South Africa where the ballstrikers could run free with there high approach shots and mega drives.
Firmino is one of those ballstrikers and looks like an epic fail casting in the PL.
Ask and you shall receive:
The Merseyside club currently sit 10th in the Premier League table, the same position they were in when manager Brendan Rodgers was sacked in October.
Klopp has overseen eight wins, five draws and three defeats across all competitions since taking over at Anfield, with impressive victories over Manchester City, Chelsea and Southampton tempered by losses to Crystal Palace, Newcastle United and Watford.
The former Borussia Dortmund boss has now said that his time at Liverpool could have started better if he did not have to contend with the English weather, particularly strong winds.
READ MORE
What to expect from Liverpool this January transfer window
"The English game is not faster than the German game. Perhaps there are a few more sprints. But there is a different style of football here, partially due to the weather," Klopp told German newspaper Bild.
"The wind can be quite extreme in England. We are not familiar with that in Germany and you have to keep things simple. Stoke City's first goal against Manchester United was a perfect example of the extreme winds. Players who are not from the UK have to get used to the winds
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...english-weather-wind-philosophy-a6790806.html.
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