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Everton Build Up

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Lucas said:
Do you think Rodgers is worth a shot to see what he does once the albatross of Gerrard around his inexperienced neck is taken off?

I mean...maybe. But you just know he is going to play Marko and Lallana over Ibe. You just know Moreno is going to be a fixture.
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I'm not happy with us rationalizing a lack of success with inexperience. The question is, is it really worth investing 3+ years of the club, and hundreds of millions in signings and wages to have BR possibly succeed. There's more polished, finished products of managers out there who have a much better grasp of transfers, their personal approach to the game, while also successfully developing young talent. I don't like that Rodgers persona has gone from tiki taka possession, to a counter attacking style we committed to, to being the super adjustable manager who's not afraid to change things except when he is.

It's becoming formulaic where BR signs about 2 players who aren't good enough, the committee signs a couple of bargain bin veterans and a costly young player or two who has real potential, and a couple established veterans get flamed out every year. Then half the signings don't even get used by the first team, useful youth players who've shown promise are shunted out on loan or sold, and we have a catastrophic first half of the season while he tries half a dozen different systems until one sticks enough to have us improve in the second half.
 
roadred said:
Goodison is for a special type of.......
This was as Stevie ran back from taking a free kick.

Keep on trucking through life, miserable and angry girly.
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The irony here is that it is not hard to visualize that it is exactly what some posters are doing to Gerrard and Rodgers in this match thread, or in other match threads when we don't win.
 
If you are referencing me... you are wrong.

Its the last thing I want to see, is Gerrard in his current state. But I wouldn't slag him off. Its just painfully obvious he isn't a premiership class footballer anymore.

As far as Rodgers... again its not slagging him off to say you've lost faith in him. I've given him 2 and a half years. Even in the height of glory last year, I thought he made some stupid decisions and was naive too often. I don't hate him and I haven't made it a habit to slag him off. I just don't want him to manage the club I support anymore. He's proven he can't do the job, imo. I was hoping he would put it all right. But I can't see it happening anymore. Hopefully, I'll be wrong and he will lead this team to an almighty surge taking us to fourth. But can you really see that happening?
 
So Rodgers play Gerrard in the derby and now we're back to losing faith in him again?

Didnt see the game as I was getting pissed at a birthday party.
Any word on Lucas?

From reading all the comments about Ibe, he surley keeps his place in the team on tuesday.
 
Not the worst result in the world, but Blueshite were their for the taking so disappointing we didn't get the win.

I thought Skrtel was immense. Young Ibe bright and energetic as well.
 
Wiberg said:
Once again Rodgers is his own worst enemy. A Shite Everton team right there for the taking. They would crumble if we applied some pressure.

He plays the legend over the team and we look abysmal once again. Gerrard doesn't even qualify to be named a passenger.

And how the Fuck can you drop Lucas for Allen??
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Wow.
How tragic.
 
This thread was/is embarrassing...

The slagging for Gerrard aside, which is massively over the top, reading the papers today a couple said Coutinho took a knock which they hoped treatment at half time would sort but didn't...

Some shameful shit in here IMO.

And I do mean shit.
 
I just watched it and thought we played quite well against a super conservative Everton. Even Moyes used to show more ambition.

I thought Lambert was good when he came on and Allen did quite well after Lucas went off. Gerrard wasn't great, admittedly.
 
gene hughes said:
I just watched it and thought we played quite well against a super conservative Everton. Even Moyes used to show more ambition.

I thought Lambert was good when he came on and Allen did quite well after Lucas went off. Gerrard wasn't great, admittedly.
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Lambert actually had chances, so I feel like he did quite well
 
Molbystwin said:
This thread was/is embarrassing...

The slagging for Gerrard aside, which is massively over the top, reading the papers today a couple said Coutinho took a knock which they hoped treatment at half time would sort but didn't...

Some shameful shit in here IMO.

And I do mean shit.
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There were lot's of knee-jerk reactions based on no knowledge other than preconceived ideas of Rodgers.
 
Yeah, knee jerking two and a half years in.

I don't care if Coutinho was hurt - we still made the wrong decisions.
 
Lucas said:
Yeah, knee jerking two and a half years in.

I don't care if Coutinho was hurt - we still made the wrong decisions.
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Right... so continuing to play Coutinho and make the injury worse so he's unavailable for future games. Makes sense.
 
No, we could have taken out Coutinho and still made the right substitutions. I have no problem with protecting him. He's very important to the club.
 
Just cause you interpreted it wrong does not make it silly.

I don't care if we took Coutinho off. BR made the wrong decisions. There were numerous permutations that might have resulted in positive outcome from his subs.

For example, Studge for Gerrard and Lazar on for Coutinho; pushing Ibe further forward.

Or when Lucas got hurt put Lovren on for him and play Can in the center.

There are many different decisions that could have been made to help the team. This manager does not have the knack at all for changing things mid game. Along with many other flaws.

I was NOT calling for his head in November. I chose to give him time cause I understood the loss of Suarez and the new players would make it hard on anyone. But to me this *return to form* is not legitimate. He's made countless baffling decisions since November.

I hope I'm wrong and we go on to win everything with him. But I wouldn't be surprised or upset if he was gone in the summer. With De Boer replacing him.

*bad internet off my phone in South Africa.
 
Lucas said:
Just cause you interpreted it wrong does not make it silly.

I don't care if we took Coutinho off. BR made the wrong decisions. There were numerous permutations that might have resulted in positive outcome from his subs.

For example, Studge for Gerrard and Lazar on for Coutinho; pushing Ibe further forward.

Or when Lucas got hurt put Lovren on for him and play Can in the center.

There are many different decisions that could have been made to help the team. This manager does not have the knack at all for changing things mid game. Along with many other flaws.

I was NOT calling for his head in November. I chose to give him time cause I understood the loss of Suarez and the new players would make it hard on anyone. But to me this *return to form* is not legitimate. He's made countless baffling decisions since November.

I hope I'm wrong and we go on to win everything with him. But I wouldn't be surprised or upset if he was gone in the summer. With De Boer replacing him.

*bad internet off my phone in South Africa.
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All your permutations are based on hindsight. Anyone can get it right with hindsight, hell, I'll be a huge lottery winner after they've told me the numbers.

And your examples can easily have failed as well, for example Everton attacked down our right. Without Can there and playing Lovren could have resulted in a goal for them. You can never tell because it's a "what-if". Lazar has never played in the Coutinho role so what makes you think he can do it?

I 'don't really care' if you didn't call for his head in November, you've made your decision without waiting to see if he wins a trophy this year or achieve fourth (in some respects - I admire your stance since it's not based on hindsight) but it's poor thinking to say this "return to form" is legitimate when clearly it is since it's a continuation of BR's decision making last season.

Everything BR does, you've already decided it's bad. So if his decisions don't result if winning then it's baffling decision making. If it does then it's either luck or not legitimate. Shame.
 
Dude, Lazar at RWB, Ibe further forward preferably on the left because he is much much much better there than Sterling will ever be. You never know if subs will work, but he's made those similarly shit ones too many times to not know they don't work. Let me lump on a big slow striker and try and score with the antithesis of the way everything is set up.

Dude, of course my decision is based on hindsight. Its based on all the crappy decisions he's made. In addition, I've just lost patience because he showed his weakness yesterday by sticking with Gerrard all game yesterday despite him clearly hurting our attack and press. I don't believe sentiment ever should get in the way of performance.

What I mean by the return to form not being legitimate is I'm expecting to lose to the good teams coming up in our schedule. We've had a phenomenally easy run of fixtures and have had one really inspiring performance. West Ham 2nd half. We were good against Chelsea, but I believe the way they played made us appear better than we were. We're obviously much better with Studge back but if we had better management we wouldn't have gone into this season with one striker. Maybe we would have avoided Balotelli and Lazar, while signing Lacazette or the like.

I will stop posting these thoughts, because I understand how much they get under the skin of people who want to put there head in the sand be positive and pretend all will be great. I feel the same way when I things are going well and someone comes along being "all negative". Please accept my apologies, I hope I'm wrong.
 
Lucas said:
Dude, Lazar at RWB, Ibe further forward preferably on the left because he is much much much better there than Sterling will ever be. You never know if subs will work, but he's made those similarly shit ones too many times to not know they don't work. Let me lump on a big slow striker and try and score with the antithesis of the way everything is set up.

Dude, of course my decision is based on hindsight. Its based on all the crappy decisions he's made. In addition, I've just lost patience because he showed his weakness yesterday by sticking with Gerrard all game yesterday despite him clearly hurting our attack and press. I don't believe sentiment ever should get in the way of performance.

What I mean by the return to form not being legitimate is I'm expecting to lose to the good teams coming up in our schedule. We've had a phenomenally easy run of fixtures and have had one really inspiring performance. West Ham 2nd half. We were good against Chelsea, but I believe the way they played made us appear better than we were. We're obviously much better with Studge back but if we had better management we wouldn't have gone into this season with one striker. Maybe we would have avoided Balotelli and Lazar, while signing Lacazette or the like.

I will stop posting these thoughts, because I understand how much they get under the skin of people who want to put there head in the sand be positive and pretend all will be great. I feel the same way when I things are going well and someone comes along being "all negative". Please accept my apologies, I hope I'm wrong.
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Mate, your first sentence is again based on "what-ifs" so has no basis to reality.

Mate, you learn from hindsight not use it to belittle people or claim you knew better.

And you're understand of legitimate is wrong because the "return-to-form" is legitimate but not yet tested with the big teams. That's ok, but I get the feeling if we do win against them you'll just say the other teams had a bad day rather than we played well.

Nope, don't stop because: -

1. you haven't got under anyone's skin and debating is what this forum is all about.
2. I haven't seen anyone with their heads in the sand or pretend we're great - they're just posting with a little hope.
 
The Ibe statement is not a what if. He is fantastic and much better on the left cause of his skill set. You can't teach his shooting ability or pace. Its obvious if you've watched enough of him.

I have learned from hindsight. I have learned we don't score when we lump Lambert on at the end. I have learned that we haven't played well with Gerrard in the team this season. I have learned that we buy poorly and end up buying players in positions where we already have great talents. The manager hasn't. Thats why I think he's proven he can't handle it. Yes he changes the formation until he finds something that works. Its the best part of him.

I am not angry. I'm sad that I no longer have faith he'll turn it around.


"Apparently, it was always there for the past 2.5 years but coming 2nd last season hindered it from coming out."

This is total shit. I loved the team. I thought the manager did well but he was naive in critical moments. I was hoping he would learn from it and he has to an extent - but not enough for my liking. Its the fact he keeps on going back and making the same mistake hoping for different results in the past few months despite the upturn in form that has really got to me. Maybe if we didn't have as shit of a summer as we did before the year we may have won the bloody thing (added to the bottom). If you don't look back at last year and attribute a lot of it to Suarez then I can understand why you have more faith.


" That's ok, but I get the feeling if we do win against them you'll just say the other teams had a bad day rather than we played well."

Again shit. I'd be ecstatic and hold my hand up as being wrong. This habit the site has of calling any negative viewpoint, knee jerking and assuming their cretinous human beings who aren't just as supportive of the team as you is shit. I want them to win with every fiber of my being. But I've seen enough to not believe it will happen.





Players IN

Kolo Toure – Free Transfer – Man City
Iago Aspas – £7m – Celta Vigo
Luis Alberto – £6.8m – Sevilla
Simon Mignolet – £9m – Sunderland
Aly Cissokho – Season Loan – Valencia
Mamadou Sakho – £15m – PSG
Tiago Ilori – £7m – Sporting Lisbon
Victor Moses – Loan – Chelsea
Spent: £44.8m
Players OUT

Dani Pacheco – Free- A.D. Alcorcon
Stewart Downing – £6m – West Ham
Jay Spearing – £1.75m – Bolton Wandererers
Jonjo Shelvey – £5m – Swansea City
Andy Carroll – £15.5m – West Ham
Danny Wilson – Free Transfer – Hearts
Peter Gulacsi – Free Transfer – Red Bull Salzburg
Received: £28.25m
Loaned

Fabio Borini – Sunderland (Premier League, England)
Oussama Assaidi – Stoke City (Premier League; England)
Jack Robinson – Blackpool (Championship; England)
Pepe Reina – Napoli (Serie A; Italy)
Suso – Almeria (La Liga; Spain)
Michael Ngoo – Yeovil (Championship; England)
Conor Coady – Sheffield United (League One; England – 6 months)
Krisztian Adorjan – Groningen (Eredivisie; Holland)
Henoc Mukendi – Partick Thistle (Scottish Premier League – 6 months)
Armin Hodzic – FK Zeljeznicar, (Premijer Liga; Bosnia)
 
So Lambert didn't come on against West Ham and scored, he nearly scored against Everton. It's a last minute call, so this time it didn't work out but it could work. Even the great Jose does this at times. It was pretty clear, that the tactics weren't working or Everton had it figured out and were defending pretty well so a change of style was approach to attempt. I don't see the problem in this you obviously do. As you've said subs are not a guarantee that it'll work so moving Ibe and bringing on Lazar is still a what-if, greater probability of working but still a what-if.

The whole team played badly at the beginning of the season, poor form from everybody, and yes Gerrards powers have waned but the schedule is currently busy and he was rested for this game. Gerrard nearly scored in a overhead kick, again Everton was set up to defend so it didn't work out, stuff like this happens. He is playing less games so that's evidence of Rodgers learning there.

There has been many threads about our transfers so I'd rather not repeat it, the only thing is you've singled out the bad but haven't mentioned any of the successes so it's more evidence of your biase.

I think this site this pretty balanced in it's approach and, again, no one has said anything about being a superfan against those that want to put the more negative side into threads. In fact I've encouraged it for the debate but if you can't see the knee-jerk posts then I can't help you. PS, it's not necessarily you.
 
I've pointed out the positives plenty because my doubts were growing, but this was really the turning point for me. I really lost it at his decisions for this game because they were so symptomatic of what has been wrong the whole season.

I'm sorry but Lambert has not turned around a game for us - and we've tried it numerous times. He's scored when we are already winning and come on.

How did he almost score? By hitting it straight at the keeper? It was a great effort but if that papers over that 90 minute display for you then we again do not see eye to eye.

I do not have a bias, if Rodgers works this out I will raise my hand up and say I was wrong. I have an opinion formed by inputs provided to us by the man.

Enough on the matter - you've actually come across really reasonably in that post despite edging the other way before.

YNWA - hope we are in the CL next year.
 
Lucas said:
Yeah, knee jerking two and a half years in.

I don't care if Coutinho was hurt - we still made the wrong decisions.
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What were they?

Starting Ibe? well he nearly won it for us and is now blooded in a high pressure game so possibly we might even be able to use him more often hence gaining a player for the run in that many people at the club fancy for a big future.

Played Gerrard? STILL one of our best players as evidenced by a number of occasions earlier in the season when we blatantly lacked the fucking minerals without him on the pitch he also (notice i haven't mentioned his being a fucking legend yet) has a pretty fucking phenomenal record against Everton and was picked because in fact he still contributes. Oh and yeah...while we are at it.... he actually is a fucking Legend because he is a top player and should therefore be picked when fit and available IMO

Coutinho? It would have been better if we had allowed him to play on through his injury hence possibly exacerbating it just before our other 4 games this month...It's hard to say how fucking ridiculous playing an injured player is really...yeah genuinely hard to say...

Yeah we could have won... as for SHOULD have won well... Everton are there for the taking etc... I haven't seen all the two hundred and forty odd Derby matches but I'm pretty sure they are often really predictable and not at all fucking treacherous, but then by the same token maybe Everton could've actually bothered to play instead of parking the bus from minute 1..
 
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