Europa League

[6TimesaRed]

Good. The youngsters will have acquired some good experience, and the first team will still be relatively fresh and focussed on the league.

We wont finish in the top 4 though...

I am with Jexy.. winning games build momentum... we have a big enough squad to cope with both (in theory)

Besides Rodgers needs to get upto speed in Europe, gain European Experience. The Europa league will should help with that...

 

[Judge Jules]

It's far too soon to write us off for top four and that has to be the priority. All the current top teams got where they are by making progress consistently in their respective leagues, not by winning the occasional minor pot along the way

 

[Jack D Rips]

Good. The youngsters will have acquired some good experience, and the first team will still be relatively fresh and focussed on the league.

That's what I meant

 

[6TimesaRed]

It's far too soon to write us off for top four and that has to be the priority. All the current top teams got where they are by making progress consistently in their respective leagues, not by winning the occasional minor pot along the way

I admire your enthusiasm.. but Top 4 this time around will be very difficult..

Whilst on paper we should compete.. I do think we will miss out, Chelsea, Arsenal, City and United will just be too strong..

Why I think we just cannot dismiss this competition.. and if Italy continue to progress as they have done in Europe.. we may have to look at this competition in a different light...

They are only 10 points behind in the coefficient rankings.. They only really have to beat our coefficient points by 3.5 points this time around.. and our Top 4 places could be reduced to 3 next season.. 2016/17

So one could argue, with that in mind, its probably imperative we take this competition a little bit more seriously this time around..

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/index.html

 

[gkmacca]

I admire your enthusiasm.. but Top 4 this time around will be very difficult..

I don't really get the logic. If we're not good enough to make the top four, even if we concentrate on it, then why are we more likely to do well in a European competition, given that this squad and manager looked even more hapless in Europe last season than they did in the domestic league? Everton allowed themselves to become over-excited about their Europa League run last season and all they got for their efforts was a spell in the relegation scrap. Spurs also put a lot of energy into their own run and, again, they ended up with nothing, having slipped up time and again in the league after their Thursday excursions. Rodgers has one chance to save himself. Just one. He HAS to be seen to compete for a top four place.

 

[localny]

Look, if you want to get back up there, you have to be able to play in two or three competitions. Rodgers will need the experience of Juggling the esquad. All the top managers need this. He had his one competition year in 2013-14, and can't expect to get away with that excuse again

But frankly, his performance in Europe is so totally awful, that I have no faith we'll do much anyway. IT was this inability that convinced me he needs to go.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I don't really get the logic. If we're not good enough to make the top four, even if we concentrate on it, then why are we more likely to do well in a European competition, given that this squad and manager looked even more hapless in Europe last season than they did in the domestic league? Everton allowed themselves to become over-excited about their Europa League run last season and all they got for their efforts was a spell in the relegation scrap. Spurs also put a lot of energy into their own run and, again, they ended up with nothing, having slipped up time and again in the league after their Thursday excursions. Rodgers has one chance to save himself. Just one. He HAS to be seen to compete for a top four place.

I did say we would compete.. but it will be hard to finish in the Top 4, we lack the world class players the other teams have and will have.. A lot rides on who we purchase as our main striker and how the new players settle in and of course keeping Sturridge fit..

The team need to develop a wining mentality.. how do you get that..?? winning trophies...

However, If we take the attitude to treat this competition with contempt, like so many others, we could be fighting for a Top 3 position the following season to qualify for the Champions League...

Qualifying for the champions league would be so much harder.. It may come to the crunch in the long term we have to take this competition more seriously.. why not start now ??

 

[Judge Jules]

You do have to be able to compete on various fronts, Niall, but you have to work your way up to that level and you're only going to do so by making and consolidating progress in your domestic league first and foremost. If we give the Europa League equal priority we'll be trying to run before we can walk.

 

[gkmacca]

Yep. Try to finish in the top four. Hopefully pick up a domestic cup, too.

 

[localny]

You do have to be able to compete on various fronts, Niall, but you have to work your way up to that level and you're only going to do so by making and consolidating progress in your domestic league first and foremost. If we give the Europa League equal priority we'll be trying to run before we can walk.

I don't agree JJ. He's had enough time at this point to be able to run. 2013-2014 was his year of getting away with only one competition. 2014-2015 was his year of juggling and learning. It's a little ridiculous in my opinion to not be able to juggle the demands of the EL, and the league. If he can't do that, at this point, he should be on his way.

But then again, I'm one of those people who think we only missed out on top 4 due to our own stupidity, not the ability of other teams. I think it's entirely attainable with or without the EL.

 

[localny]

Yep. Try to finish in the top four. Hopefully pick up a domestic cup, too.

Back to the land of terribly low expectations. Aim for forth, you'll get sixth.

@gkmacca Happy days are here again; Low Expectations are back!

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't agree JJ. He's had enough time at this point to be able to run. 2013-2014 was his year of getting away with only one competition. 2014-2015 was his year of juggling and learning. It's a little ridiculous in my opinion to not be able to juggle the demands of the EL, and the league. If he can't do that, at this point, he should be on his way.

But then again, I'm one of those people who think we only missed out on top 4 due to our own stupidity, not the ability of other teams. I think it's entirely attainable with or without the EL.

Second para - agree, but at this stage of our development our chances will diminish if we divide our primary efforts.

First para - let's agree to disagree. No way do I see those lengthy and complex development stages being completed in 12 months apiece. I never agreed and TBH still don't agree with FSG's model of appointing a young manager, but now we've got one we have to be realistic about what we can expect and when.

 

[Judge Jules]

Back to the land of terribly low expectations. Aim for forth, you'll get sixth.

@gkmacca Happy days are here again; Low Expectations are back!

Aim for everything at once before you're ready to do so, and you'll end up achieving none of it. There's no question of low expectations here - on the contrary, if there were I'd be happy to go balls out for every competition, because anything we might achieve would be a bonus.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Back to the land of terribly low expectations. Aim for forth, you'll get sixth.

@gkmacca Happy days are here again; Low Expectations are back!

Isn't the idea just to try and win every game?

 

[peterhague]

Italy can't take the 4th CL place next season!!!

 

[Red Mullet]

Second para - agree, but at this stage of our development our chances will diminish if we divide our primary efforts.

First para - let's agree to disagree. No way do I see those lengthy and complex development stages being completed in 12 months apiece. I never agreed and TBH still don't agree with FSG's model of appointing a young manager, but now we've got one we have to be realistic about what we can expect and when.

You don't win things with kids.

You're just fighting the fight for the elderly 😉

 

[6TimesaRed]

Italy can't take the 4th CL place next season!!!

They can.. easily... (I edited the original post. got my calculations wrong)

if ourselves Germany and Italy have the same season as last season..

we will lose 4th place qualification

in fact Italy only need to better our coefficient by 3.5 points.. assuming Germany better ours too..

Which both Italy and Germany did easily.. last time out..


these our the current standings as of the 30th June.. we currently sit 3rd and there is only just over 3 points in it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient


Last season we scored.. 13.571
Italy... 19.000

To say the positions are not under threat is just plain stupid...

 

[Brizzle]

It only gets you into the CL for one year. Very short term when you can focus on finishing top 4 and maintaining a position at as one of the top clubs in the league.

 

[6TimesaRed]

It only gets you into the CL for one year. Very short term when you can focus on finishing top 4 and maintaining a position at as one of the top clubs in the league.

If you qualify. it can give you the finacial muscle to help stay there..

However the pot is split 5 way rather than 4 ways.. but it is still a healthy pot...

Sevilla struggle, as they don't have the financial muscle in their league with the like of Madrid and Barcelona.. They sell players at a huge profit in order to try to compete..

 

[peterhague]

They can.. easily... (I edited the original post. got my calculations wrong)

if ourselves Germany and Italy have the same season as last season..

we will lose 4th place qualification

in fact Italy only need to better our coefficient by 3.5 points.. assuming Germany better ours too..

Which both Italy and Germany did easily.. last time out..


these our the current standings as of the 30th June.. we currently sit 3rd and there is only just over 3 points in it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient


Last season we scored.. 13.571
Italy... 19.000

To say the positions are not under threat is just plain stupid...

Even if they overtake us this year, it won't come into effect until qualifying for the 2017/18 CL.

In the longer term, there's very little chance of us being shut out of the 'top 3' leagues. The power of the English teams is just too great to make it likely: the recent lack of success is just an aberration because of various negative factors all coalescing. Utd and City have been much weaker than they really are, and on average that has to change soon. That combined with the financial power of our clubs means a return to near domination of European football is probable in the next 3 to 5 years.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Even if they overtake us this year, it won't come into effect until qualifying for the 2017/18 CL.

In the longer term, there's very little chance of us being shut out of the 'top 3' leagues. The power of the English teams is just too great to make it likely: the recent lack of success is just an aberration because of various negative factors all coalescing. Utd and City have been much weaker than they really are, and on average that has to change soon. That combined with the financial power of our clubs means a return to near domination of European football is probable in the next 3 to 5 years.

Italy TV deals are silly money now.. not at the level of the premier league, I agree... but they are strong... It is probably more likely they will swap with Germany, but all it takes is another season like last season, and our position is seriously under threat..

Chelsea you would expect to do well.. But the rest.. may very well struggle...

Arsenal never get past qtrs.. City probably will get another Group of Death.. and Man UTD, well their experience say they should do well, but who knows...


The changing of the seeding this time around should make it interesting, as the first pot is based on the holders and the 7 champions from the 7 top leagues..

Poor Man City.. they will never be seeded..

 

[gkmacca]

Back to the land of terribly low expectations. Aim for forth, you'll get sixth.

@gkmacca Happy days are here again; Low Expectations are back!

Yes they are. In this case it's called realism!

 

[peterhague]

Italy TV deals are silly money now.. not at the level of the premier league, I agree... but they are strong... It is probably more likely they will swap with Germany, but all it takes is another season like last season, and our position is seriously under threat..

Chelsea you would expect to do well.. But the rest.. may very well struggle...

Arsenal never get past qtrs.. City probably will get another Group of Death.. and Man UTD, well their experience say they should do well, but who knows...


The changing of the seeding this time around should make it interesting, as the first pot is based on the holders and the 7 champions from the 7 top leagues..

Poor Man City.. they will never be seeded..

The seeding change is fucking stupid. Top 7 leagues?? Where does that get down to?

City have been ridiculously unlucky with their draws, that's bound to change sooner or later. Arsenal are poor but still always make useful progress.

Chelsea and Utd are both capable of winning it if they make the right signings this summer.

What level of 'silly' are we talking about re the Italian tv deal? Because their clubs have basically been skint for years. It'd take some massive fucking uptick to get anything close to the English teams in terms of that revenue.

 

[6TimesaRed]

The seeding change is fucking stupid. Top 7 leagues?? Where does that get down to?

coefficient rankings I guess

 

[6TimesaRed]

What level of 'silly' are we talking about re the Italian tv deal? Because their clubs have basically been skint for y

The current TV deal is worth well over 1 Billion... They have also announced 200 million from overseas sales last year.. whilst not at the scale of the premier league it is a decent sum..

The distribution is not as spread as evenly as the premier league. Last year’s champions Juventus took home 91.3 million euros — which could rise well above 2015-16’s projection of 123 million whilst I think the bottom place team received around 30 million euros..

They are also looking to reduce the league to 18 teams, which will increase the revenue for the teams further more..

 

[peterhague]

1 Billion over how many years? I assume Euros?

Ours is likely to end up at more than £3.5bn per annum once overseas rights are renegotiated.

That's £175m split 20 ways. Way more than that for the top clubs, probably around £220m or so.

 

[6TimesaRed]

1 Billion over how many years? I assume Euros?

Ours is likely to end up at more than £3.5bn per annum once overseas rights are renegotiated.

That's £175m split 20 ways. Way more than that for the top clubs, probably around £220m or so.

Over 1.2 billion Euros a year I think..

The Italian tv rights deal is the 2nd best Collective TV rights deal in Europe