That's true, I was one of them, but then it still doesn't make his statement that we've done better this season any more true. Not at all.
Poll Do You want Klopp
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I think it's safe to assume that Allen and Borini were Rodgers Suggestions as they had both played for him before and he seemed delighted when we signed both of them. As with Coutinho and Sturridge it seems pretty clear that the club were interested in getting both of them before Rodgers even came on board so i'm disproving your point not reinforcing it. With most of the signings it's unclear who the driving force is behind acquiring them but with them four signings it certainly looks clearer ( 2x Rodgers and 2 x long time club targets)
I don't know why people think it's so hard to unpick who's been signing who. Right from the start it's been sadly evident the sort of characteristics that mark out a Rodgers signing/target: he seems to be overly reliant on players he's worked with before, very little eye for a bargain in terms of getting a player at the right stage of his career, and an extremely limited knowledge of foreign-based players. Witness his first transfer window: Walcott, Allen, Sigurdsson, Dempsey, Williams, Borini, Vorm.
On the other hand, we know that FSG and their committee are focused on seeking out overlooked value in various ways, with a particular emphasis on youth.
Is there really any doubt, in the light of that, who targeted Can, Markovic, Coutinho, Moreno, Origi, Manquillo, Balotelli? Or, on the other hand, Lambert, Lallana, Lovren?
There are one or two like Sakho, Sturridge, and Mignolet that are more debatable, but even there his treatment of Sakho suggests he was one of the committee's, and Tony Evans has said the same about Sturridge and Mignolet.
On the other hand, we know that FSG and their committee are focused on seeking out overlooked value in various ways, with a particular emphasis on youth.
Is there really any doubt, in the light of that, who targeted Can, Markovic, Coutinho, Moreno, Origi, Manquillo, Balotelli? Or, on the other hand, Lambert, Lallana, Lovren?
There are one or two like Sakho, Sturridge, and Mignolet that are more debatable, but even there his treatment of Sakho suggests he was one of the committee's, and Tony Evans has said the same about Sturridge and Mignolet.
I've always said Balotelli is in no way overlooked or a value signing - coming off his best season / Premiership proven - the kind of reasons maangers buy players for.
But we know Rodgers didn't publicly want him, but Rodgers says he has the final say. So who knows.
I put typical manager signings for our club in the following categories:
- Players they've worked with before
- Average to good players who've had their career year In our league.
- 'proven' players.
The likes of Alberto and Aspas were simply the work of a Spanish scout who was overly trusted. Moreno and Manquillo is probably the same. Possibly Ilori too
Whoever it is in central Europe identifying the players is the keeper.
But we know Rodgers didn't publicly want him, but Rodgers says he has the final say. So who knows.
I put typical manager signings for our club in the following categories:
- Players they've worked with before
- Average to good players who've had their career year In our league.
- 'proven' players.
The likes of Alberto and Aspas were simply the work of a Spanish scout who was overly trusted. Moreno and Manquillo is probably the same. Possibly Ilori too
Whoever it is in central Europe identifying the players is the keeper.
Were you not whinging that these 'beyond useless' players were being froze out the other day.
You really are clueless.
re-posting in this thread:
Pesam said: ↑
the classic argument that players doing well in poor performing teams and how they will be better off with more quality team mates is something we at liverpool have been stung by far too much.
The bigger question is what is their profile? Then how much are we going to pay.
After the torres debacle, Chelsea seem to adopted the following model with indicative pricing in brackets - and it is arguably working.
Ages 18-21: what is the potential, can they get better (0-10 m) [most of their loanees]
21-24: are they performing at a high-level - are they ready to make the step up to world-class? (10-20m) [salah/schurlle/zouma].
24+: are they world class or thereabouts? (25m+) [costa/faberegas]
Chelsea would not have paid what we paid the prices we paid the likes of: lallana, lovren, lambert, borini, because none of them fall in these categories.
Nothing is full proof though - willian and Cuadrado don't nearly fall into that profile
Pesam said: ↑
Keni between them they've scored 26 goals in 60 games (about 30 games each) in two very poor and very uncreative teams. There's a chance that they could score loads more in a better team.....it's just a matter of how much money any team is willing to risk that they're efficacy will rise in line with the improving quality of teammates.
the classic argument that players doing well in poor performing teams and how they will be better off with more quality team mates is something we at liverpool have been stung by far too much.
The bigger question is what is their profile? Then how much are we going to pay.
After the torres debacle, Chelsea seem to adopted the following model with indicative pricing in brackets - and it is arguably working.
Ages 18-21: what is the potential, can they get better (0-10 m) [most of their loanees]
21-24: are they performing at a high-level - are they ready to make the step up to world-class? (10-20m) [salah/schurlle/zouma].
24+: are they world class or thereabouts? (25m+) [costa/faberegas]
Chelsea would not have paid what we paid the prices we paid the likes of: lallana, lovren, lambert, borini, because none of them fall in these categories.
Nothing is full proof though - willian and Cuadrado don't nearly fall into that profile
So you want to play these players that are beyond useless in a different system?
Haha.
You're fucking laughable.
I really hate managers that do this. How many times has it actually worked out? Ricardo Carvalho at Chelsea? I can't think of many more.
I expect people to agree with you.
I've said this for years and people always say it's nonsense.
Football looks at players all wrong. The profile should be the starting point for considering players.
Is there a difference?
They never end up worth what you pay for them, but they're often decent signings.
So they are good players that are beyond useless now in the current system?
Is that what you're saying?
Benitez got it right with Garcia though his inconsistency did frustrate they hell out of you... and in parts momo sissoko
Hodgson with Poulson and Konchesky though.. 💩
It's not really relevant that a previous regime showed interest, it sounds like your selectively accrediting the signings to him that suit your agenda. Rodgers said he wanted Sturridge, initially he wanted a loan though, which is why there was the delay between the Summer and January, because Chelsea wanted £18m upfront (which Rodgers didn't want to pay). Waiting until the January saved us £6m.
It might have been a different Manager at the helm but it was whilst FSG were in control so it's perfectly relevant and i didn't mention sturridge in the first place it was Gerry_a_Trick so bring it up with him. The point i was making about me not being entirely convinced that he was Rodgers choice was that the club had already tried to sign him before so maybe Rodgers was the one who was persuaded by the club to go for him rather than it being Rodgers idea. Remember Sturridge has a reputation (falsely) of being a trouble causer so that's also a factor in why his valuation decreased. I mentioned Allen and Borini initially as being almost certainly Rodgers signings so I didn't have any agenda regarding Sturridge at all and was merely responding to another post directed at me .
On the flip side, having Studge earlier could have improved our league positioning!
It's a 'what-if'...
I say we go for Klopp. I would've more excited by that signing than Zidanni Ings.
If we finish 7th, Rogers has to go. Klopp would be top of my list and the club should have already sounded him out. Saying that, if the club are as slow as we think, we'll probably only try talking to him after he's signed for someone else.
For various reasons I hope Brendan does well enough in what's left of this season to stay but, if - as I suspect - the owners are going to tell him it's a minimum 4th place in the league next season or he's gone, we should be making initial contact with Klopp now.
What would you define as well enough? Win every game left? 12 points?
It's a fair question. Certainly if we do get CL he stays, but other than that I don't have a specific points target in mind. If we fall short of the CL spots (and unfortunately I think we probably will), for me the decision should depend (a) on how far short we end up and (b) on whether we play well in those games. If we perform well, win some and lose the odd game by the odd goal I'd probably accept that for now, whereas if we play like we did in the Cup semi-final I'd be thinking the players aren't going to do it for this guy.
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