Understandable. He's been here decades yet still only appears in 50% of games.
Poll Do You Want Benitez Sacked At The End Of The Season?
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Yeah, trouble is, Bilbo the groundsman wanted parity.
Cost a fucking fortune, thank fuck for that CL money we've got coming in next year.
Cost a fucking fortune, thank fuck for that CL money we've got coming in next year.
I have to say if me and Rebel were face to face in a pub when he said the above nonsense I might well have stabbed him repeatedly in the face with a broken pint glass.
I'm fed up of excuses. The manager is a useless cunt and the sooner the diehards realise that the better.
I'm fed up of excuses. The manager is a useless cunt and the sooner the diehards realise that the better.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39211.msg1068140#msg1068140 date=1268352479]
I have to say if me and Rebel were face to face in a pub when he said the above nonsense I might well have stabbed him repeatedly in the face with a broken pint glass.
I'm fed up of excuses. The manager is a useless cunt and the sooner the diehards realise that the better.
[/quote]
That depends on what you want from a manager.
If you want your players to retain possession by passing sideways and safely forwards, goggles on, Rafa is your man and i'm sure Rebel the stat man loves this.
If you want to win the league, or you know, something useful then i, like you am unsure as to how he is still in a job.
I have to say if me and Rebel were face to face in a pub when he said the above nonsense I might well have stabbed him repeatedly in the face with a broken pint glass.
I'm fed up of excuses. The manager is a useless cunt and the sooner the diehards realise that the better.
[/quote]
That depends on what you want from a manager.
If you want your players to retain possession by passing sideways and safely forwards, goggles on, Rafa is your man and i'm sure Rebel the stat man loves this.
If you want to win the league, or you know, something useful then i, like you am unsure as to how he is still in a job.
So, there we have it.
The last three Rafa apologists on this site are Headwand, Ryan O'Tomkins and Rafa4pM
Just about says it all, really
The last three Rafa apologists on this site are Headwand, Ryan O'Tomkins and Rafa4pM
Just about says it all, really
*sticks head above the parapet*
I keep telling myself that this whole season is just a massive cluster fuck and it can never (at least not for another 50 years at least) be this crap again, thus, Rafa deserves the benefit of the doubt (I know, I.know.).
I also, for the life of me, cannot see who will come in and soothe my aching head/heart/etc....
* huge sigh*
I keep telling myself that this whole season is just a massive cluster fuck and it can never (at least not for another 50 years at least) be this crap again, thus, Rafa deserves the benefit of the doubt (I know, I.know.).
I also, for the life of me, cannot see who will come in and soothe my aching head/heart/etc....
* huge sigh*
*raises hand*
*sees brendan's angry scowl*
*lowers hand*
*waits for bren to log off*
*raises hand again*
*sees brendan's angry scowl*
*lowers hand*
*waits for bren to log off*
*raises hand again*
truth is I don't think I've ever 'wanted' a manager sacked, not roy, not gh and not rafa. I'm a naturally loyal person I guess so while a manager is in charge I will support him and the team as best I can but the truth is if and when rafa is removed I will probably breathe a sigh of relief rather than shed a tear but until that day rafa gets my support because in the five years he has been here when you consider the competition he has done quite well although I guess quite well at liverpool isn't good enough.
lastly why is it when I say 'how would shankly deal with player power' people come out with 'times have changed' but when I say 'why should we 'expect' the league having not won it 20 years' people reply 'we should expect the best' or whatever, haven't 'times changed' in that regard as well?
lastly why is it when I say 'how would shankly deal with player power' people come out with 'times have changed' but when I say 'why should we 'expect' the league having not won it 20 years' people reply 'we should expect the best' or whatever, haven't 'times changed' in that regard as well?
I can't keep faith with Rafa now. It's plain that some players are working with him and others are not. I don't know what has gone on but I don't want to see Rafa humiliated. Once a rift has formed it will be nigh on impossible to restore trust without a complete change. It's simply easier to change a Manager.
I would rather Rafa move on. At present he would no doubt command a job at many continental clubs where his reputation remains intact.
The real conundrum is who we might get, if we could attract Mourinho great, but I suspect we'll get a 'young Manager with potential' and remain in the doldrums for years.
I would rather Rafa move on. At present he would no doubt command a job at many continental clubs where his reputation remains intact.
The real conundrum is who we might get, if we could attract Mourinho great, but I suspect we'll get a 'young Manager with potential' and remain in the doldrums for years.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39211.msg1068255#msg1068255 date=1268382377]
So, there we have it.
The last three Rafa apologists on this site are Headwand, Ryan O'Tomkins and Rafa4pM
Just about says it all, really
[/quote]
I think even Rafa4PM, has some serious doubts over the last few weeks though Bren.
I like Rafa4, we have had our differences on this subject, but loyalty is something I do admire.
Blind loyalty on the other hand, is a fools path to disaster.
Christ, Rafa is either a) very lucky or b) very clever, perhaps a mixture of the two. If it were not for the fact the owners were so unpopular and Rafa has had his (very public) differences with them he would have been frog-marched out of the gates by the fans.
I fear when the backlash does come it will not be pretty though, people are going to be very angry they have looked so daft for so long.
When will that be? If Lille dump us out and when we finish 6th or 7th.
Our fall from grace has been seismic , we hardly seem to exist now, after decades at the top or most recently nearly, and I don't like it.
The only way we are going to force our way back is with a new manager and a massive injection of funds, £80-£100m worth.
City are going to build and build, which means in the next couple of years, unless we get mega-rich owners to let us compete with United Chelsea and City, we are going to have to displace Arsenal. Don't say I am wrong, I said it with Chelsea and everyone said it would never happen.
If that does not happen then we will be in the second tier along with Spurs, Villa, Birmingham and even Everton.
No amount of faux loyalty or optimism is going to change that.
How the mighty are falling, it's very very sad.
regards
regards
So, there we have it.
The last three Rafa apologists on this site are Headwand, Ryan O'Tomkins and Rafa4pM
Just about says it all, really
[/quote]
I think even Rafa4PM, has some serious doubts over the last few weeks though Bren.
I like Rafa4, we have had our differences on this subject, but loyalty is something I do admire.
Blind loyalty on the other hand, is a fools path to disaster.
Christ, Rafa is either a) very lucky or b) very clever, perhaps a mixture of the two. If it were not for the fact the owners were so unpopular and Rafa has had his (very public) differences with them he would have been frog-marched out of the gates by the fans.
I fear when the backlash does come it will not be pretty though, people are going to be very angry they have looked so daft for so long.
When will that be? If Lille dump us out and when we finish 6th or 7th.
Our fall from grace has been seismic , we hardly seem to exist now, after decades at the top or most recently nearly, and I don't like it.
The only way we are going to force our way back is with a new manager and a massive injection of funds, £80-£100m worth.
City are going to build and build, which means in the next couple of years, unless we get mega-rich owners to let us compete with United Chelsea and City, we are going to have to displace Arsenal. Don't say I am wrong, I said it with Chelsea and everyone said it would never happen.
If that does not happen then we will be in the second tier along with Spurs, Villa, Birmingham and even Everton.
No amount of faux loyalty or optimism is going to change that.
How the mighty are falling, it's very very sad.
regards
regards
That's bollocks Mo, this season has been an unmitigated disaster.
We have not been sliding for twenty years, we reached a level of "the top four" and stayed there. This has not been part of a gradual decline it's fucking San Fransisco on a bad day
regards
We have not been sliding for twenty years, we reached a level of "the top four" and stayed there. This has not been part of a gradual decline it's fucking San Fransisco on a bad day
regards
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=39211.msg1068277#msg1068277 date=1268386218]
Seismic? Naah. Glacial perhaps. We've been sliding for 20 years mate. Rafa, in his first few years, did more than his predecessors in slowing the slide and making people take notice of us again.
[/quote]
Agreed. Apart from maybe that French bloke, what was his name again? I think he won some trophies, and also equalled Benitez's best ever season; runner-up.
He also finished fourth in his last season, which I don't think Benitez is going to manage, in what his hopefully his.
Seismic? Naah. Glacial perhaps. We've been sliding for 20 years mate. Rafa, in his first few years, did more than his predecessors in slowing the slide and making people take notice of us again.
[/quote]
Agreed. Apart from maybe that French bloke, what was his name again? I think he won some trophies, and also equalled Benitez's best ever season; runner-up.
He also finished fourth in his last season, which I don't think Benitez is going to manage, in what his hopefully his.
Will the last person out, please close the door.
Rafa Benitez, your time is up.
Tom Hicks and George Gillett, your time is up.
20 years of building, wasted. A new stadium promised and not delivered. Custodians of of the club failed us, lied to us, continue to take joe public for a fool. Seldom do Football clubs make a profit these days, Gillett and Hicks failed us again and again.
But Benitez must take the lion's share of the blame for our current mess. We've spent on big players, but £35-40m have arguably been spent on our two biggest flops in the modern era (Aqualini & Keane).
So from the 2010-11 season, we will be chasing a top 4 finish, building again. Hopefully without Benitez, and hopefully without our useless owners. But we are not the force we want to be. The pain has only just begun. I fear if G&H do not sell, we'll struggle to a top half finish next year, the slippery slope with slippers on is ahead of us.
Benitez's failings:
1) Probably the only team still in Europe that consistantly adopts zonal marking... It cost us AGAIN!
2) Fringe players and big name flops, we consistantly are being told by Benitez that top players want to come here, ok, but you've bought top players and don't know what to do with them.
3) The continued insistance on playing Mascherano and Lucas in the same team. It's proven time and time again it doesn't work. I'd be very interested to see the win ratio with them in the same team and without them.
4) No plan B - Other managers will change to 4-4-2, 4-3-3 4-2-4 to chase a game, why is it when we are behing we stick with 4-2-3-1 and only change it with 10 minutes to go. It's just predictable and fucking wank.
The last 6 months have been by FAR the worst of my supporting life, and even the harshest of Houllier Critics should now concede this is by far worse.
Thanks Benitez for the European & FA Cup, thanks for Mascherano and Torres, thanks for continually beating Everton and finding out Man Utd. Thanks for some truely wonderful moments, but that's all they were... Moments, not continous success.
Thanks Gillett and Hicks for bankrolling us for a YEAR.
NOW FUCK OFF THE LOT OF YOU!
Rafa Benitez, your time is up.
Tom Hicks and George Gillett, your time is up.
20 years of building, wasted. A new stadium promised and not delivered. Custodians of of the club failed us, lied to us, continue to take joe public for a fool. Seldom do Football clubs make a profit these days, Gillett and Hicks failed us again and again.
But Benitez must take the lion's share of the blame for our current mess. We've spent on big players, but £35-40m have arguably been spent on our two biggest flops in the modern era (Aqualini & Keane).
So from the 2010-11 season, we will be chasing a top 4 finish, building again. Hopefully without Benitez, and hopefully without our useless owners. But we are not the force we want to be. The pain has only just begun. I fear if G&H do not sell, we'll struggle to a top half finish next year, the slippery slope with slippers on is ahead of us.
Benitez's failings:
1) Probably the only team still in Europe that consistantly adopts zonal marking... It cost us AGAIN!
2) Fringe players and big name flops, we consistantly are being told by Benitez that top players want to come here, ok, but you've bought top players and don't know what to do with them.
3) The continued insistance on playing Mascherano and Lucas in the same team. It's proven time and time again it doesn't work. I'd be very interested to see the win ratio with them in the same team and without them.
4) No plan B - Other managers will change to 4-4-2, 4-3-3 4-2-4 to chase a game, why is it when we are behing we stick with 4-2-3-1 and only change it with 10 minutes to go. It's just predictable and fucking wank.
The last 6 months have been by FAR the worst of my supporting life, and even the harshest of Houllier Critics should now concede this is by far worse.
Thanks Benitez for the European & FA Cup, thanks for Mascherano and Torres, thanks for continually beating Everton and finding out Man Utd. Thanks for some truely wonderful moments, but that's all they were... Moments, not continous success.
Thanks Gillett and Hicks for bankrolling us for a YEAR.
NOW FUCK OFF THE LOT OF YOU!
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
My abiding memory of Houllier's last season was when we got knocked out of Europe (Marseille?) and someone was through on goal with Biscan behind him, and you just knew he was gonna pull him down and get sent off, which he duly did.
Similarly last season against Wigan, you could see Lucas trip the player a good couple of seconds or so before he actually did it. It was like it was in slow motion.
Similarly last season against Wigan, you could see Lucas trip the player a good couple of seconds or so before he actually did it. It was like it was in slow motion.
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39211.msg1068338#msg1068338 date=1268391751]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
[/quote]
I'm talking performance wise.
We were unbeaten in such and such, then i think we lost to Middlesborough and the whole season fell apart, got trounced in Europe, might've been Drogba unless that was the year before.
It was worse than now, somehow.
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
[/quote]
I'm talking performance wise.
We were unbeaten in such and such, then i think we lost to Middlesborough and the whole season fell apart, got trounced in Europe, might've been Drogba unless that was the year before.
It was worse than now, somehow.
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
It wasn't that different. We never really got going that year either. We do have to pick up 12 points from our last 9 games to equal it on points.
We did at least finish 4th then though
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
It wasn't that different. We never really got going that year either. We do have to pick up 12 points from our last 9 games to equal it on points.
We did at least finish 4th then though
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068341#msg1068341 date=1268391879]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39211.msg1068338#msg1068338 date=1268391751]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
[/quote]
I'm talking performance wise.
We were unbeaten in such and such, then i think we lost to Middlesborough and the whole season fell apart, got trounced in Europe, might've been Drogba unless that was the year before.
It was worse than now, somehow.
[/quote]
In my own memory nothing is as bad a this season. Sorry thats how I see it
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39211.msg1068338#msg1068338 date=1268391751]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
[/quote]
I'm talking performance wise.
We were unbeaten in such and such, then i think we lost to Middlesborough and the whole season fell apart, got trounced in Europe, might've been Drogba unless that was the year before.
It was worse than now, somehow.
[/quote]
In my own memory nothing is as bad a this season. Sorry thats how I see it
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39211.msg1068338#msg1068338 date=1268391751]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
[/quote]
Coincidently I think that was Gerrards best ever season and the competition for the top 4 was poor to say the least, we got 60 points and still qualified.
EDIT - I don't want the "whos last season was shitter" debate to detract from the rest of the thread however I do feel that the 2004 campaign can be summed up by Geds brilliant decision to play Biscan at centre back.
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39211.msg1068325#msg1068325 date=1268390784]
Houilliers last season was just as bad as this.
[/quote]
He qualified us for the CL in his final season didnt he? Not so sure that will happen this season
[/quote]
Coincidently I think that was Gerrards best ever season and the competition for the top 4 was poor to say the least, we got 60 points and still qualified.
EDIT - I don't want the "whos last season was shitter" debate to detract from the rest of the thread however I do feel that the 2004 campaign can be summed up by Geds brilliant decision to play Biscan at centre back.
Although you have to remember, in fairness, that Ged did not have Chelsea and City to compete with, but I never felt it was as dire and frustrating and hopeless as this year.
I stuck by Ged to the bitter end, why have I not prepared to do the same with Rafa.
I think it's because I still had belief in Ged's squad, which is probably borne out by the fact that Rafa's two cups have been one with what is intrinsically that squad.
regards
I stuck by Ged to the bitter end, why have I not prepared to do the same with Rafa.
I think it's because I still had belief in Ged's squad, which is probably borne out by the fact that Rafa's two cups have been one with what is intrinsically that squad.
regards
T
the_khl
Guest
Geds final year was for me much worse.
The ammount of underwhelming players back then compared to now was massive and that somehow gives me hope. If not for now then for the future of this club. Back then it was just all bleak and I'll always be grateful for Rafa coming in and taking us forward at that time.
Biscan, Traore, Baros, Diao, Cheyrou, Kewell, Warnock, Vignall, Mellor, Le Tallec, Pongolle, Dudek etc compared too Torres, Masher, Glen Johnson, Lucas, Maxi, Kuyt, Benayoun, Riera, Babel, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Reina, Ngog and Aquilani.
The ammount of underwhelming players back then compared to now was massive and that somehow gives me hope. If not for now then for the future of this club. Back then it was just all bleak and I'll always be grateful for Rafa coming in and taking us forward at that time.
Biscan, Traore, Baros, Diao, Cheyrou, Kewell, Warnock, Vignall, Mellor, Le Tallec, Pongolle, Dudek etc compared too Torres, Masher, Glen Johnson, Lucas, Maxi, Kuyt, Benayoun, Riera, Babel, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Reina, Ngog and Aquilani.
What a shit and pointless 'comparative' list of players that is
gh's spine on leaving - dudek, sami, riise, carra, didi, gerrard, cisse, baros (can't count owen)
rafa's spine (if he leaves) - riena, agger, martin, carra, johnson, masherano, gerrard, torres
rafa would have left a reasonbly strong squad for a new manager to build on.
rafa's spine (if he leaves) - riena, agger, martin, carra, johnson, masherano, gerrard, torres
rafa would have left a reasonbly strong squad for a new manager to build on.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1068376#msg1068376 date=1268396438]
gh's spine on leaving - dudek, sami, riise, carra, didi, gerrard, cisse, baros (can't count owen)
rafa's spine (if he leaves) - riena, agger, martin, carra, johnson, masherano, gerrard, torres
rafa would have left a reasonbly strong squad for a new manager to build on.
[/quote]
Neil's "Spine" includes a right-back.
gh's spine on leaving - dudek, sami, riise, carra, didi, gerrard, cisse, baros (can't count owen)
rafa's spine (if he leaves) - riena, agger, martin, carra, johnson, masherano, gerrard, torres
rafa would have left a reasonbly strong squad for a new manager to build on.
[/quote]
Neil's "Spine" includes a right-back.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39211.msg1068368#msg1068368 date=1268395500]
What a shit and pointless 'comparative' list of players that is
[/quote]
Sorry.
What a shit and pointless 'comparative' list of players that is
[/quote]
Sorry.
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