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Poll Do You Want Benitez Sacked At The End Of The Season?

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Sack Benitez?


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We lost form, I don't think Rafa took his foot off the pedal. That's it in your nutshell. I think last season Rafa found the right approach for the players we had, but it clearly wasn't right enough. This season he is trying that same approach, without the players for it, and it's been a fucking disaster for that and many other reasons.
 
Well, maybe it was less a case of taking our foot off the pedal and more a case of lacking urgency when we were top of the table. I don't really care how it's put down on paper - the bottom line for me is that we blew it.

I remember early last season, we weren't playing well, but people were generally quite pleased with Rafa's attitude and comments were made with regards to positive substitutions. When push came to shove however, we lacked that real winners edge and it was infuriating to see it all unfold at the time knowing that we'd ultimately pay the price. It wasn't a case of changing the approach - I don't know why you keep going on about that - it was about realizing that in certain games as time went on, we needed to gamble a little bit more in search of a win.

If there are some that look back on last season and think "cool, we exceeded expectations", fair play. I look back on it as a missed opportunity and one that we may not see come around again for a fair while if things carry on as they are.
 
I'm going on about approach because the intial post I took objection to was saying Rafa became "too afraid to win the league".

Anyway, I don't actually think we are arguing about the same thing, nor do I think we disagree that much. No one is looking on last season, or any other in recent memory, as "cool", particularly right now. The whole thing is miserable to think about.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39211.msg1067398#msg1067398 date=1268263235]
I'm going on about approach because the intial post I took objection to was saying Rafa became "too afraid to win the league".
[/quote]

Heh, well I did ask.
 
Bottom line Rafa was brought in to win the leauge.

5 years on he has come somewhat close once.

Every other year he has been out of it by October.

That's enough right there.

Sack him and do it quickly.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067313#msg1067313 date=1268255181]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=39211.msg1067308#msg1067308 date=1268254822]
Benitez has given us some truly wonderful days as Liverpool fans and much like his predecessor gave us hope that we could finally win the title everyone craves.

Unfortunately things seem to have run their course and its best that he goes and someone else has a crack at it
[/quote]Benitez took Hector Cupers squad at Valencia and achieved great things with it, then he dissassembled that squad and built his own which failed summarily to reach those heights. He left blaming the board. He came to Liverpool and took Houlliers side to two trophys. He then dissassembled that side and knew only failure with his side, so he spent 3 years bitching and moaning and excuse making and blaming the board, so finally the board bow to pressure and give him a free reign to do whatever he wants, sign whoever he wants, control contracts, bacroom staff, academy etc. And that has resulted in abject and total fucking failure. Benitez is a flop and we've all been mugged off.
[/quote]

Spot on that man.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067382#msg1067382 date=1268261245]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39211.msg1067380#msg1067380 date=1268261001]
Remember when Rafa was saying we are a more attacking team now. How did that work out? Rafa had the exact right approach last year, for the players he had. He couldn't have done much worse with his transfers, and I think that is where he fucked it up, but the constant reference to mentality and caution and everything I don't think offers up any bit of insight.
[/quote]There was a game in particular (I believe it was against Stoke) when the game was tied with 20 mins to go and he took off a player and brought on Lucas leaving Babel and Keane on the bench. That and decisions like that while we were top of the league is what cost us. When we chased we chased hard and well, when we led we were lambs.
[/quote]

And in Istanbul he brought on Didi Hamman when we required 3 goals and left Cisse on the bench.

Rafa doesn't approach situations when we require goals by lumping on a striker, he never has.
 
Benitez is a top, top bloke who dearly loves this club, this city and its people. There's no getting away from that.

This stuff does matter, it just does. But I can understand why Oncy has never warmed to him, because neither have I in fairness.

I cannot understand nor relate to someone who doesn't crack a smile when we score. It bemuses me. It staggers me. Here's Benitez putting in 60 hour weeks and you'd think it natural to be able to enjoy the good times. I like him. I like him a lot, but I can never relate to him because I just don't see him as human, TBH. None of this really matters, though. Nor should it.

Do we give him another season? I don't know. I really don't. He doesn't deserve it, I believe that. But you look around the options and their reputation is nothing compared to Rafael's. But then you have to consider that all the success Benitez has shown has been with an inherited squad. When he's had to build his own it's fallen apart. You also have to question whether he will ever truly understand the Premiership... It's not an easy decision by any stretch.
 
I still think rafa is the right person for the job I thought the same thing in the middle of last season when we went on a horrendous run and loads of people were calling for his head a few weeks later we are thumping teams left right and center. there comes a time when a manager has lost the players and has taken his team as far as he can take them I just don't think rafa has reached that stage yet and dropping out of the CL wont change my mind on that it the clubs fault they put themselves in such a perilous situation when its CL or bust.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39211.msg1067430#msg1067430 date=1268272914]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067382#msg1067382 date=1268261245]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39211.msg1067380#msg1067380 date=1268261001]
Remember when Rafa was saying we are a more attacking team now. How did that work out? Rafa had the exact right approach last year, for the players he had. He couldn't have done much worse with his transfers, and I think that is where he fucked it up, but the constant reference to mentality and caution and everything I don't think offers up any bit of insight.
[/quote]There was a game in particular (I believe it was against Stoke) when the game was tied with 20 mins to go and he took off a player and brought on Lucas leaving Babel and Keane on the bench. That and decisions like that while we were top of the league is what cost us. When we chased we chased hard and well, when we led we were lambs.
[/quote]

And in Istanbul he brought on Didi Hamman when we required 3 goals and left Cisse on the bench.

Rafa doesn't approach situations when we require goals by lumping on a striker, he never has.
[/quote]Youre kind of emphasising my point there.
When we absolutely positively need to go and win, we play like warriors, (well at least until this shitfest of a season) but when away at Stoke or Wigan or 'insert shitty mediocre side who we should be eviscerating like the mancs do here' Rafa is pragmatist supreme. It doesn't, didn't and will never work.
Im really fucking down at the moment so maybe I'm being unduly miserable.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39211.msg1067467#msg1067467 date=1268291017]
Benitez is a top, top bloke who dearly loves this club, this city and its people. There's no getting away from that.

This stuff does matter, it just does. But I can understand why Oncy has never warmed to him, because neither have I in fairness.

I cannot understand nor relate to someone who doesn't crack a smile when we score. It bemuses me. It staggers me. Here's Benitez putting in 60 hour weeks and you'd think it natural to be able to enjoy the good times. I like him. I like him a lot, but I can never relate to him because I just don't see him as human, TBH. None of this really matters, though. Nor should it.

Do we give him another season? I don't know. I really don't. He doesn't deserve it, I believe that. But you look around the options and their reputation is nothing compared to Rafael's. But then you have to consider that all the success Benitez has shown has been with an inherited squad. When he's had to build his own it's fallen apart. You also have to question whether he will ever truly understand the Premiership... It's not an easy decision by any stretch.


[/quote]

That's a good read Squiggles. No answers, but at least someone is contemplating the complexity of the situation.
 
I like Slaven Billic. He reminds of a young foreign-version of MoN (shows passion) and he had Croatia playing well enough. Also I like what I heard on MoTD2 the other week when he was talking about our game with Man City. He said something along the lines of "They're Liverpool.. one of the big teams.. and they should be doing more". Seems meh, but it showed despite Man City's millions he appreciated who we were and it was great respect for our club.

But besides him, I'm pretty much with Larry.. I don't want any more tactic european geniuses who won't get our league. I want someone who understands our league. I'd take a Redknapp over a Pellegrini.

I'd be happy with one of the following: MoN, Mourinho, Billic or Riijkaard.
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39211.msg1067601#msg1067601 date=1268309970]
What experience have Billic or Riikjaard got when it comes to managing in the Premiership?
[/quote]

Bilic did play in England for a while I suppose.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39211.msg1067599#msg1067599 date=1268309581]

I don't want any more tactic european geniuses who won't get our league. I want someone who understands our league. I'd take a Redknapp over a Pellegrini.

I'd be happy with one of the following: MoN, Mourinho, Billic or Riijkaard.
[/quote]

How does Riijkaard "understand our league"?
 
I don't think we're going to get someone with Prem experience.

It's hard to see Mourinho joining and we don't want some no-mark British candidate either.
 
At work, with my boss over my shoulder, so I had to rush that last post.

To clarify, I either want an experienced manager who understands the premier league even if they don’t always play attacking football (MoN/Mourinho).. or if we MUST take a gamble.. then a young foreign manager who also speaks good English and plays attacking football (Bilic/Rijkaard) who I see in the Wenger model.

P.s. Noticed I posted on the wrong thread too. As I said, was in a rush.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=39211.msg1067630#msg1067630 date=1268312950]
Noticed I posted on the wrong thread too. As I said, was in a rush.

I wouldn't worry about that mate. Most threads end up pretty much the same anyway
[/quote]

Lucas is a cunt. And Insua is shit, slow etc.

There, that's better.
 
Why Rafael Benítez is still the right man for Liverpool

It is only natural for supporters to get frustrated when their club is going through a bad spell, and finger-pointing is always going to occur, especially when one of the top clubs in Europe is having such a torrid season.
But Liverpool fans shouldn’t be blaming their side’s poor form on Rafael Benítez, in fact if anyone’s the man to get the team out of this bad run, it’s him.

The defeat at Wigan Athletic on Monday night was the final straw for many Liverpool supporters. Despite sticking behind the manager through thick and thin over the last five years, a limp and lifeless performance against one of the League’s strugglers was a step too far for even some of the most staunch backers of the Spanish boss.

As with last season, many feel the bad result at the DW Stadium put an end to Liverpool’s domestic ambitions; last season it was finishing top, this season it is to finish a lowly fourth.

An ever-increasing percentage of Liverpool’s support is calling for the manager’s head, but it’s time for these fans to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Since Benítez’s arrival at Anfield in 2004 Liverpool have qualified for Europe’s top competition year-on-year, an accomplishment never achieved by any Liverpool manager before him. Up until this season, the earliest Liverpool were ever knocked out of the competition under Benítez was the first knockout round, to Benfica in 2006. Over the last five years the Spanish boss has taken his side to two Champions League finals, one semi-final, one quarter-final and one last-16 knockout round — a record most of the top managers in Europe would be proud of.

Whilst many Liverpool fans will suggest that the League should be the main target, the back-to-back qualifications for the Champions League demonstrate how much their domestic form has improved under Benítez, finishing in the top four in four of the five seasons. The only season Liverpool failed to finish in the top four was the one in which they won their fifth European Cup in Istanbul.

The quality of the team itself is another major issue at Anfield, which many say is lacking strength-in-depth and relies too heavily on two key players, Fernando Torres and captain Steven Gerrard. It should be evident to anyone who has any knowledge of the game that Liverpool do lack depth, but when the manager has been forced to sell in order to buy for most of the last three seasons, it is something of an inevitability. A prime example is the sale of Craig Bellamy to help fund the Fernando Torres deal. Despite the Spaniard being a much better player, Liverpool could now certainly do with Bellamy as a back-up.

The other major thorn in the side of Benítez is the club’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett. The two Americans have seemingly done everything in their power to hinder the manager’s attempts to improve the squad to challenge for the title in recent years. Whether that be not giving him the financial backing to bring in Gareth Barry, or going behind his back to discuss the manager’s position with Jürgen Klinsmann.

It would be fair to say that outside of Fratton Park, Benítez endures the worst working conditions of any manager in the Premier League. He has had his authority undermined on a number of occasions and has seen money from the sale of players being used to help finance the crippling debts placed on the club by its current owners.

Yes, Benítez can and does make mistakes and yes, it’s happened more often than usual this season. But the implications of him being removed from his post are unthinkable. Say what you like about the prestige of the Liverpool manager’s job, when you have no money to spend and are expected to win the League, no world-class manager would look twice at the position.

And that’s the problem Liverpool face. It would be close to impossible to find a manager with anywhere near Benítez’s vast experience who would go anywhere near the job.

Some of the short-term problems on the pitch may rightly be laid at the door of the manager, but if you want to find Liverpool’s long-term problem look no further than Tom Hicks and George Gillett.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39211.msg1067651#msg1067651 date=1268316761]
Why Rafael Benítez is still the right man for Liverpool

It is only natural for supporters to get frustrated when their club is going through a bad spell, and finger-pointing is always going to occur, especially when one of the top clubs in Europe is having such a torrid season.
But Liverpool fans shouldn’t be blaming their side’s poor form on Rafael Benítez, in fact if anyone’s the man to get the team out of this bad run, it’s him.

The defeat at Wigan Athletic on Monday night was the final straw for many Liverpool supporters. Despite sticking behind the manager through thick and thin over the last five years, a limp and lifeless performance against one of the League’s strugglers was a step too far for even some of the most staunch backers of the Spanish boss.

As with last season, many feel the bad result at the DW Stadium put an end to Liverpool’s domestic ambitions; last season it was finishing top, this season it is to finish a lowly fourth.

An ever-increasing percentage of Liverpool’s support is calling for the manager’s head, but it’s time for these fans to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Since Benítez’s arrival at Anfield in 2004 Liverpool have qualified for Europe’s top competition year-on-year, an accomplishment never achieved by any Liverpool manager before him. Up until this season, the earliest Liverpool were ever knocked out of the competition under Benítez was the first knockout round, to Benfica in 2006. Over the last five years the Spanish boss has taken his side to two Champions League finals, one semi-final, one quarter-final and one last-16 knockout round — a record most of the top managers in Europe would be proud of.

Whilst many Liverpool fans will suggest that the League should be the main target, the back-to-back qualifications for the Champions League demonstrate how much their domestic form has improved under Benítez, finishing in the top four in four of the five seasons. The only season Liverpool failed to finish in the top four was the one in which they won their fifth European Cup in Istanbul.

The quality of the team itself is another major issue at Anfield, which many say is lacking strength-in-depth and relies too heavily on two key players, Fernando Torres and captain Steven Gerrard. It should be evident to anyone who has any knowledge of the game that Liverpool do lack depth, but when the manager has been forced to sell in order to buy for most of the last two seasons, it is something of an inevitability. A prime example is the sale of Craig Bellamy to help fund the Fernando Torres deal. Despite the Spaniard being a much better player, Liverpool could now certainly do with Bellamy as a back-up.

The other major thorn in the side of Benítez is the club’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett. The two Americans have seemingly done everything in their power to hinder the manager’s attempts to improve the squad to challenge for the title in recent years. Whether that be not giving him the financial backing to bring in Gareth Barry, or going behind his back to discuss the manager’s position with Jürgen Klinsmann.

It would be fair to say that outside of Fratton Park, Benítez endures the worst working conditions of any manager in the Premier League. He has had his authority undermined on a number of occasions and has seen money from the sale of players being used to help finance the crippling debts placed on the club by its current owners.

Yes, Benítez can and does make mistakes and yes, it’s happened more often than usual this season. But the implications of him being removed from his post are unthinkable. Say what you like about the prestige of the Liverpool manager’s job, when you have no money to spend and are expected to win the League, no world-class manager would look twice at the position.

And that’s the problem Liverpool face. It would be close to impossible to find a manager with anywhere near Benítez’s vast experience who would go anywhere near the job.

Some of the short-term problems on the pitch may rightly be laid at the door of the manager, but if you want to find Liverpool’s long-term problem look no further than Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

[/quote]


excellent piece. where did you get it?
 
Bet it was written by a manc.
So Benitez is the only manager to qualify for Europe every year.....except the year he didn't.....and probably this year......yeah hard to argue with that.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39211.msg1067467#msg1067467 date=1268291017]
Benitez is a top, top bloke who dearly loves this club, this city and its people. There's no getting away from that.

This stuff does matter, it just does. But I can understand why Oncy has never warmed to him, because neither have I in fairness.

I cannot understand nor relate to someone who doesn't crack a smile when we score. It bemuses me. It staggers me. Here's Benitez putting in 60 hour weeks and you'd think it natural to be able to enjoy the good times. I like him. I like him a lot, but I can never relate to him because I just don't see him as human, TBH. None of this really matters, though. Nor should it.

Do we give him another season? I don't know. I really don't. He doesn't deserve it, I believe that. But you look around the options and their reputation is nothing compared to Rafael's. But then you have to consider that all the success Benitez has shown has been with an inherited squad. When he's had to build his own it's fallen apart. You also have to question whether he will ever truly understand the Premiership... It's not an easy decision by any stretch.


[/quote]

Benitez always shows his joy when he sees us lift a trophy. Up until that point he will always keep his emotions under wraps as he sees it as just being professional and staying focused. I've always had great respect for him for that.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
 
It would be fair to say that outside of Fratton Park, Benítez endures the worst working conditions of any manager in the Premier League
Absolutely rubbish. Im sure one ofthe SoS members wrote that piece.
Poor the Rafa. Why doesnt he quit?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

wow, is it 5 years already we have not won any trophy?
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=39211.msg1067671#msg1067671 date=1268320455]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

wow, is it 5 years already we have not won any trophy?
[/quote]Time flies when you're fucking shite.
 
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