Poll Do You Want Benitez Sacked At The End Of The Season?

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.

 

[Richey]

Horribly one sided account that

And I would partially take issue with this part especially!

Since Benítez’s arrival at Anfield in 2004 Liverpool have qualified for Europe’s top competition year-on-year, an accomplishment never achieved by any Liverpool manager before him. Up until this season, the earliest Liverpool were ever knocked out of the competition under Benítez was the first knockout round, to Benfica in 2006. Over the last five years the Spanish boss has taken his side to two Champions League finals, one semi-final, one quarter-final and one last-16 knockout round — a record most of the top managers in Europe would be proud of.

He is the only one who has benefitted fully from the rules whereby the top 4 qualify.
Paisley only finished outside the top 4 once I think (and we won it that year), neither Fagan nor King Kenny even finished outside the top 2, and if we are counting full seasons even Roy Evans always managed top 4

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=39211.msg1067671#msg1067671 date=1268320455]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

wow, is it 5 years already we have not won any trophy?
[/quote]

No - nearly four years though. FA Cup was in May 2006.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39211.msg1067677#msg1067677 date=1268320793]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=39211.msg1067671#msg1067671 date=1268320455]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

wow, is it 5 years already we have not won any trophy?
[/quote]

No - nearly four years though. FA Cup was in May 2006.

[/quote]Apologies I thought it was Five this year. Shameful really being as Molly was born the year we won the FA cup.
Hey ho. 4 years then. That's potentially 16 trophies he's failed to win ( or last years league aside, even got close too ).

 

[Richey]

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

City haven't stopped us winning anything yet. I don't even think they have beaten us since they have had money have they? They might not get into the top 4 either

Chelsea may have been a good side before but again them having cash is hardly the reason we are dropping points year on year to the likes of Portsmouth, Wigan, Stoke, Birmingham, Blackburn, Sunderland etc.......

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067681#msg1067681 date=1268321294]
Apologies I thought it was Five this year. Shameful really being as Molly was born the year we won the FA cup.
Hey ho. 4 years then. That's potentially 16 trophies he's failed to win ( or last years league aside, even got close too ).
[/quote]

4 years without winning a trophy. Well that's an achievement of sorts isn't it? I don't think Houllier, Evans or Souness ever went that long!

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=39211.msg1067686#msg1067686 date=1268321486]

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

City haven't stopped us winning anything yet. I don't even think they have beaten us since they have had money have they? They might not get into the top 4 either

Chelsea may have been a good side before but again them having cash is hardly the reason we are dropping points year on year to the likes of Portsmouth, Wigan, Stoke, Birmingham, Blackburn, Sunderland etc.......
[/quote]I think that's my biggest bugbear with argument that we can't afford to compete. It's not Chelsea making is play 2 holding midfielders against fucking Blackburn. We aren't being pipped to the title because of results vs the top 5, were being beaten to it because Manchester United (on the cusp of 4 straight titles) flay almost every single team in the bottom half of the table almost every time they play them.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.

 

[Le Chacal]

Well, we didnt challenge for the league in his 4th year.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067694#msg1067694 date=1268322058]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.
[/quote]

again its all well and good been sarky but its one thing to set out a plan to challenge and its quite another TO actually challenge. how much have n'castle been in 5 years? spurs? villa? yet still its the same teams at the top and usually those teams have stability in the form of their manager.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067698#msg1067698 date=1268322632]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067694#msg1067694 date=1268322058]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.
[/quote]

again its all well and good been sarky but its one thing to set out a plan to challenge and its quite another TO actually challenge. how much have n'castle been in 5 years? spurs? villa? yet still its the same teams at the top and usually those teams have stability in the form of their manager.
[/quote]Look it seems clear, you're happy to 'challenge' i'm not. The end.
Please don't respond to me again.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067700#msg1067700 date=1268322823]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067698#msg1067698 date=1268322632]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067694#msg1067694 date=1268322058]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.
[/quote]

again its all well and good been sarky but its one thing to set out a plan to challenge and its quite another TO actually challenge. how much have n'castle been in 5 years? spurs? villa? yet still its the same teams at the top and usually those teams have stability in the form of their manager.
[/quote]Look it seems clear, you're happy to 'challenge' i'm not. The end.
Please don't respond to me again.
[/quote]

chill out oncey I know you still love me 🙂
I'm only chatting mate.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067701#msg1067701 date=1268322946]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067700#msg1067700 date=1268322823]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067698#msg1067698 date=1268322632]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067694#msg1067694 date=1268322058]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.
[/quote]

again its all well and good been sarky but its one thing to set out a plan to challenge and its quite another TO actually challenge. how much have n'castle been in 5 years? spurs? villa? yet still its the same teams at the top and usually those teams have stability in the form of their manager.
[/quote]Look it seems clear, you're happy to 'challenge' i'm not. The end.
Please don't respond to me again.
[/quote]

chill out oncey I know you still love me 🙂
I'm only chatting mate.
[/quote]You sure are.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067704#msg1067704 date=1268323212]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067701#msg1067701 date=1268322946]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067700#msg1067700 date=1268322823]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067698#msg1067698 date=1268322632]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067694#msg1067694 date=1268322058]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.
[/quote]

again its all well and good been sarky but its one thing to set out a plan to challenge and its quite another TO actually challenge. how much have n'castle been in 5 years? spurs? villa? yet still its the same teams at the top and usually those teams have stability in the form of their manager.
[/quote]Look it seems clear, you're happy to 'challenge' i'm not. The end.
Please don't respond to me again.
[/quote]

chill out oncey I know you still love me 🙂
I'm only chatting mate.
[/quote]You sure are.
[/quote]

cheer up mate 🙂

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067698#msg1067698 date=1268322632]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067694#msg1067694 date=1268322058]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.
[/quote]

again its all well and good been sarky but its one thing to set out a plan to challenge and its quite another TO actually challenge. how much have n'castle been in 5 years? spurs? villa? yet still its the same teams at the top and usually those teams have stability in the form of their manager.
[/quote]

I don't really understand what any of that means but allow me to read between the lines.

Surely the success of a manager should be judged on their ability to implement their plan? Or are you suggesting that simply 'having a plan' is sufficient, irrespective of any failure to realise it?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39211.msg1067712#msg1067712 date=1268323598]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067698#msg1067698 date=1268322632]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067694#msg1067694 date=1268322058]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067690#msg1067690 date=1268321742]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067679#msg1067679 date=1268321010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067675#msg1067675 date=1268320711]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067670#msg1067670 date=1268320233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067667#msg1067667 date=1268320032]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067658#msg1067658 date=1268318822]
Bet it was written by a manc.

[/quote]

you old cynic, you.
[/quote]Its a shit piece with little or no fucking balance to it. Ignoring the fact he's outspent every other Liverpool manager in history (probably combined) ignoring the fact he HAS failed to qualify for Europe, and ignoring the fact that we havnt won a trophy in 5 years, yeah ignoring all that it's hunky dory and we should keep him.

[/quote]

of course he is going to outspend past managers for one inflation is higher, and teams like real and chelsea have over inflated the market place so transfer are going to be way more expensive relatively then they have been in the past.

when did he fail to qualify for europe I must have missed that one?

we haven't won a cup in our recent history but he has shown himself capable of winning the top prizes. two CL finals in three years is pretty frigging amazing.

the piece also is spot on that the likes of chelsea and man city have had major influxes of cash but haven't had to contend with selling to buy, sure rafa has spend a shit load but he has had to SELL a shit load to make those signings possible and then further offset those purchases with reaching the latter stages of the CL.

it amazes me that few seem to take into consideration that chelsea had a top 4 squad BEFORE the russian started splashing the cash. imagine if a billionaire spent 500m on our squad but didn't force us to sell anyone.
[/quote]I can't be bothered arguing about it Spide. He's a flop. End of.
[/quote]

I don't think its as clear cut as just saying he is a flop.
put it this way when he was hired I said (to myself) I want to win some cups (I didn't care which ones I'm not a cup snob) and to challenge by year 4
year 1 - asess the squad, few changes
year 2 - more of your changes
year 3 - your team
year 4 - challenge for the league

rafa did that, okay this season has been an almight fuck up but I don't think we are at the point of no return. don't get me wrong I wont shed a tear if rafa is sacked but at the same time I'm not going to usher him out the door and if anyone asks my opinion as to whether is finished or not I don't think he is.
[/quote]Wow! Rafa has almost exactly lived up to you're pre-determined criteria for what we all should expect from a manager who's spent 200m in 5 years.
[/quote]

again its all well and good been sarky but its one thing to set out a plan to challenge and its quite another TO actually challenge. how much have n'castle been in 5 years? spurs? villa? yet still its the same teams at the top and usually those teams have stability in the form of their manager.
[/quote]

I don't really understand what any of that means but allow me to read between the lines.

Surely the success of a manager should be judged on their ability to implement their plan? Or are you suggesting that simply 'having a plan' is sufficient, irrespective of any failure to realise it?
[/quote]

he had a plan and implemented it, did we or did we not challenge last season? okay, this season isn't/hasn't gone according to plan but I'm not ready to give him the boot I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip. I can understand where oncey is coming from but for me the measure was always a challenge to demand a manager bring home the little is arrogant especially seeing as we have won one for nearly two decades and especially looking at the riches and experience of the opposition. to each their own I guess.

 

[Oncy]

'challenge for the title' is a championship manager term.
You hire a manager and give him a champions league winning quality squad then bankroll him to the tune of 200m over 5 years and give him free reign to hire and fire as and when, to recruit his own staff, implement his own policy on transfer, youth, first team etc. You do all that (outspending every other team in that 5 year period there or there abouts) you do ALL that and then are happy with one half arsed challenge for the title in those 5 years (and I use challenge in the loosest term possible being as most uf us were well aware we were throwing away our challenge in September october last year in spite of how swashbuckling our run in was. Challenge! Fuck me pink!

 

[SummerOnions]

I don't want benitez sacked.

I want him to walk.

 

[Richey]

Points wise we weren't far off last season but in reality we were never really in contention were we?
Benitez has managed to escape a great deal of criticism in the past for finishing strongly after a poor start or poor middle of the season. I daresay if we manage to go on some kind of amazing run this year the same will happen and the same people will conveniently forget about how shit we've been for most of the season.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067726#msg1067726 date=1268326211]
'challenge for the title' is a championship manager term.
You hire a manager and give him a champions league winning quality squad then bankroll him to the tune of 200m over 5 years and give him free reign to hire and fire as and when, to recruit his own staff, implement his own policy on transfer, youth, first team etc. You do all that (outspending every other team in that 5 year period there or there abouts) you do ALL that and then are happy with one half arsed challenge for the title in those 5 years (and I use challenge in the loosest term possible being as most uf us were well aware we were throwing away our challenge in September october last year in spite of how swashbuckling our run in was. Challenge! Fuck me pink!
[/quote]

you say 200m but the owners didn't plunk that money on his desk and say 'go buck wild' that money was partly generated by sales and partly generated by CL meaning the signings pretty much had to be instant hits otherwise they would have to used to help fund the signing that WAS a success. jose situation was nearly totally different in that he had a strong squad but could keep who he wanted but still have a huge kitty to buy no players.
imagine how different our sqaud would look if rafa didn't have to sell to buy, chances are some of the players he moved on would still be here, he's had to pad out the squad AND get quality. how is that even possible?

whinger has a great method of buying cheap and selling expense but he has been in the job for 10 plus years, fergie had the wingfall of four great kids all at once which brought him success and with that success he then shopped at harrods AND he has 20+ years of experience. chelsea had a shit load of money pumped into the club without have to sell to offset those purchases and recently man city has had the same fortune.

when people say rafa has had a shit load to spend it doesn't tell the whole story because (a) he has had to sell to buy and (b) a lot of that money was generated by reaching the latter stages of the CL something he himself masterminded.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067751#msg1067751 date=1268328724]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067726#msg1067726 date=1268326211]
'challenge for the title' is a championship manager term.
You hire a manager and give him a champions league winning quality squad then bankroll him to the tune of 200m over 5 years and give him free reign to hire and fire as and when, to recruit his own staff, implement his own policy on transfer, youth, first team etc. You do all that (outspending every other team in that 5 year period there or there abouts) you do ALL that and then are happy with one half arsed challenge for the title in those 5 years (and I use challenge in the loosest term possible being as most uf us were well aware we were throwing away our challenge in September october last year in spite of how swashbuckling our run in was. Challenge! Fuck me pink!
[/quote]

you say 200m but the owners didn't plunk that money on his desk and say 'go buck wild' that money was partly generated by sales and partly generated by CL meaning the signings pretty much had to be instant hits otherwise they would have to used to help fund the signing that WAS a success. jose situation was nearly totally different in that he had a strong squad but could keep who he wanted but still have a huge kitty to buy no players.
imagine how different our sqaud would look if rafa didn't have to sell to buy, chances are some of the players he moved on would still be here, he's had to pad out the squad AND get quality. how is that even possible?

whinger has a great method of buying cheap and selling expense but he has been in the job for 10 plus years, fergie had the wingfall of four great kids all at once which brought him success and with that success he then shopped at harrods AND he has 20+ years of experience. chelsea had a shit load of money pumped into the club without have to sell to offset those purchases and recently man city has had the same fortune.

when people say rafa has had a shit load to spend it doesn't tell the whole story because (a) he has had to sell to buy and (b) a lot of that money was generated by reaching the latter stages of the CL something he himself masterminded.


[/quote]Youre an apologist. I get it.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067726#msg1067726 date=1268326211]
'challenge for the title' is a championship manager term.
You hire a manager and give him a champions league winning quality squad then bankroll him to the tune of 200m over 5 years and give him free reign to hire and fire as and when, to recruit his own staff, implement his own policy on transfer, youth, first team etc. You do all that (outspending every other team in that 5 year period there or there abouts) you do ALL that and then are happy with one half arsed challenge for the title in those 5 years (and I use challenge in the loosest term possible being as most uf us were well aware we were throwing away our challenge in September october last year in spite of how swashbuckling our run in was. Challenge! Fuck me pink!
[/quote]

disingenuous nonsense, he has only had "full control" since his new contract last year, which he insisted on because he felt like he was being hampered

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067753#msg1067753 date=1268329115]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067751#msg1067751 date=1268328724]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067726#msg1067726 date=1268326211]
'challenge for the title' is a championship manager term.
You hire a manager and give him a champions league winning quality squad then bankroll him to the tune of 200m over 5 years and give him free reign to hire and fire as and when, to recruit his own staff, implement his own policy on transfer, youth, first team etc. You do all that (outspending every other team in that 5 year period there or there abouts) you do ALL that and then are happy with one half arsed challenge for the title in those 5 years (and I use challenge in the loosest term possible being as most uf us were well aware we were throwing away our challenge in September october last year in spite of how swashbuckling our run in was. Challenge! Fuck me pink!
[/quote]

you say 200m but the owners didn't plunk that money on his desk and say 'go buck wild' that money was partly generated by sales and partly generated by CL meaning the signings pretty much had to be instant hits otherwise they would have to used to help fund the signing that WAS a success. jose situation was nearly totally different in that he had a strong squad but could keep who he wanted but still have a huge kitty to buy no players.
imagine how different our sqaud would look if rafa didn't have to sell to buy, chances are some of the players he moved on would still be here, he's had to pad out the squad AND get quality. how is that even possible?

whinger has a great method of buying cheap and selling expense but he has been in the job for 10 plus years, fergie had the wingfall of four great kids all at once which brought him success and with that success he then shopped at harrods AND he has 20+ years of experience. chelsea had a shit load of money pumped into the club without have to sell to offset those purchases and recently man city has had the same fortune.

when people say rafa has had a shit load to spend it doesn't tell the whole story because (a) he has had to sell to buy and (b) a lot of that money was generated by reaching the latter stages of the CL something he himself masterminded.


[/quote]Youre an apologist. I get it.
[/quote]

he's right though, Rafa has paid for every signing through CL prize money, if you dispute it look at the figures for the last 5 years and look at the prize money. This also ignores the fact that the domestic TV money has doubled and has been siphoned off by the lying owners to pay for their buyout. in the last 2 years since the brakes have been applied we have spent net fuck all on players and that is showing in the squad.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=39211.msg1067755#msg1067755 date=1268330139]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067753#msg1067753 date=1268329115]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067751#msg1067751 date=1268328724]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39211.msg1067726#msg1067726 date=1268326211]
'challenge for the title' is a championship manager term.
You hire a manager and give him a champions league winning quality squad then bankroll him to the tune of 200m over 5 years and give him free reign to hire and fire as and when, to recruit his own staff, implement his own policy on transfer, youth, first team etc. You do all that (outspending every other team in that 5 year period there or there abouts) you do ALL that and then are happy with one half arsed challenge for the title in those 5 years (and I use challenge in the loosest term possible being as most uf us were well aware we were throwing away our challenge in September october last year in spite of how swashbuckling our run in was. Challenge! Fuck me pink!
[/quote]

you say 200m but the owners didn't plunk that money on his desk and say 'go buck wild' that money was partly generated by sales and partly generated by CL meaning the signings pretty much had to be instant hits otherwise they would have to used to help fund the signing that WAS a success. jose situation was nearly totally different in that he had a strong squad but could keep who he wanted but still have a huge kitty to buy no players.
imagine how different our sqaud would look if rafa didn't have to sell to buy, chances are some of the players he moved on would still be here, he's had to pad out the squad AND get quality. how is that even possible?

whinger has a great method of buying cheap and selling expense but he has been in the job for 10 plus years, fergie had the wingfall of four great kids all at once which brought him success and with that success he then shopped at harrods AND he has 20+ years of experience. chelsea had a shit load of money pumped into the club without have to sell to offset those purchases and recently man city has had the same fortune.

when people say rafa has had a shit load to spend it doesn't tell the whole story because (a) he has had to sell to buy and (b) a lot of that money was generated by reaching the latter stages of the CL something he himself masterminded.


[/quote]Youre an apologist. I get it.
[/quote]

he's right though, Rafa has paid for every signing through CL prize money, if you dispute it look at the figures for the last 5 years and look at the prize money. This also ignores the fact that the domestic TV money has doubled and has been siphoned off by the lying owners to pay for their buyout. in the last 2 years since the brakes have been applied we have spent net fuck all on players and that is showing in the squad.

[/quote]So? You're just going to ignore the fact that he's (with the money generated) signed 60m worth of utter shit in terms of value in the last 2 years? Course you are, cos you're a mental case. I won't respond to you again, so please don't respond to me, we all know where you stand.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39211.msg1067398#msg1067398 date=1268263235]
I'm going on about approach because the intial post I took objection to was saying Rafa became "too afraid to win the league".

Anyway, I don't actually think we are arguing about the same thing, nor do I think we disagree that much. No one is looking on last season, or any other in recent memory, as "cool", particularly right now. The whole thing is miserable to think about.
[/quote]

there were several examples of it, Ali. All too often, we set out to avoid defeat rather than to win. And we got what we came for most of the time...

Fulham (h) - He rests Xabi when Stevie is suspended and left Lucas on despite the fact he was destroyed by Jimmy Bullard for most of the game... We never looked like winning. 2 points.
Hull (h) - he brought on Lucas to open up a tight game while Keane & Babel got arse splinters.
Arsenal (a) - We're playing 10 for an hour, no Cesc and no Adebayour... He takes off our gowlscorer and leaves on 2 DMs. We were blessed to even draw.
Witan (a) - 6 minutes left, tied game, we MUST win. What does he do..? Takes off Gerrard! Masterstroke.

There's 8 points, mate, and I'm not even thinking hard... Show a little balls, ans we're fucking champions.

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=39211.msg1067755#msg1067755 date=1268330139]


he's right though, Rafa has paid for every signing through CL prize money, if you dispute it look at the figures for the last 5 years and look at the prize money. This also ignores the fact that the domestic TV money has doubled and has been siphoned off by the lying owners to pay for their buyout. in the last 2 years since the brakes have been applied we have spent net fuck all on players and that is showing in the squad.

[/quote]

This argument that we've bought all players through the CL, is frankly, bollocks.

It goes towards wages.

Not just players but lots and lots of staff.

Groundsmen, groundswomen, tea ladies, stewards, George Sephton, cleaners, coaches, buses to take us the match, and the kids etc.


And if all CL money does go to players, where the fuck do we generate the wages and that for them?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Did we increase George's wages out of fear he would leave if we didn't finish in the top 4?

 

[SummerOnions]

I think he wanted appearance clauses in there.