Poll Do You Want Benitez Sacked At The End Of The Season?

[Richey]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39211.msg1068355#msg1068355 date=1268394200]
Although you have to remember, in fairness, that Ged did not have Chelsea and City to compete with, but I never felt it was as dire and frustrating and hopeless as this year.
I stuck by Ged to the bitter end, why have I not prepared to do the same with Rafa.
I think it's because I still had belief in Ged's squad, which is probably borne out by the fact that Rafa's two cups have been one with what is intrinsically that squad.


regards
[/quote]

GH did have Chelsea to compete with. They were already rich in his last season and finished second. They also beat us to 4th the year before

He didn't have City to contend with granted but up until recently neither has Benitez, and its not the emergence of City that has done for him. If we were in 5th, beating the teams below us but had been leapfrogged by City into 4th then that would be one thing, but that isn't what has happened is it?

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39211.msg1068275#msg1068275 date=1268385550]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39211.msg1068255#msg1068255 date=1268382377]
So, there we have it.

The last three Rafa apologists on this site are Headwand, Ryan O'Tomkins and Rafa4pM

Just about says it all, really
[/quote]

I think even Rafa4PM, has some serious doubts over the last few weeks though Bren.

"I know this has been a shite season, but i still don't want him sacked yet.

"If" a suitable replacement can be sounded out though (and we fail to win the UEFA or get 4th), i'd not boo too much about it if he was."

I like Rafa4, we have had our differences on this subject, but loyalty is something I do admire.

Blind loyalty on the other hand, is a fools path to disaster.

Christ, Rafa is either a) very lucky or b) very clever, perhaps a mixture of the two. If it were not for the fact the owners were so unpopular and Rafa has had his (very public) differences with them he would have been frog-marched out of the gates by the fans.

I fear when the backlash does come it will not be pretty though, people are going to be very angry they have looked so daft for so long.
When will that be? If Lille dump us out and when we finish 6th or 7th.

Our fall from grace has been seismic , we hardly seem to exist now, after decades at the top or most recently nearly, and I don't like it.
The only way we are going to force our way back is with a new manager and a massive injection of funds, £80-£100m worth.
City are going to build and build, which means in the next couple of years, unless we get mega-rich owners to let us compete with United Chelsea and City, we are going to have to displace Arsenal. Don't say I am wrong, I said it with Chelsea and everyone said it would never happen.
If that does not happen then we will be in the second tier along with Spurs, Villa, Birmingham and even Everton.
No amount of faux loyalty or optimism is going to change that.

How the mighty are falling, it's very very sad.

regards

regards
[/quote]

I've had my doubts for a little while now Vlad, I just don't buy all this crap that anyone over Rafa will be a step in the right direction (i'd still like to see him get 1 more season though).

If we can some how manage to attract a suitable replacement (not many of those about imo) i'd not moan about it, but i'd rather stick with Rafa over the vast majority of the names being mentioned at present.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39211.msg1068255#msg1068255 date=1268382377]
So, there we have it.

The last three Rafa apologists on this site are Headwand, Ryan O'Tomkins and Rafa4pM

Just about says it all, really
[/quote]

Which do you prefer?

"ZZZzzzzzzz"

Or

"You're a boring twat"

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39211.msg1068400#msg1068400 date=1268397885]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39211.msg1068255#msg1068255 date=1268382377]
So, there we have it.

The last three Rafa apologists on this site are Headwand, Ryan O'Tomkins and Rafa4pM

Just about says it all, really
[/quote]

Which do you prefer?

"ZZZzzzzzzz"

Or

"You're a boring twat"
[/quote]

'arf!

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Just for clarification, can someone list the reasons why we should not sack Rafa now instead of the end of the season. If we're going to get rid of him then, I can't see any advantage of keeping him until then.
We could easily get an interim manager for a few months, that's going to at the very least inspire a little more belief into the squad, and give us a good chance of getting fourth, I can't see that happening with Rafa in charge.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=39211.msg1068469#msg1068469 date=1268404083]
Just for clarification, can someone list the reasons why we should not sack Rafa now instead of the end of the season. If we're going to get rid of him then, I can't see any advantage of keeping him until then.
We could easily get an interim manager for a few months, that's going to at the very least inspire a little more belief into the squad, and give us a good chance of getting fourth, I can't see that happening with Rafa in charge.
[/quote]
Id take Dalglish right now but we dont sack managers during season at LFC.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39211.msg1068470#msg1068470 date=1268404748]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=39211.msg1068469#msg1068469 date=1268404083]
Just for clarification, can someone list the reasons why we should not sack Rafa now instead of the end of the season. If we're going to get rid of him then, I can't see any advantage of keeping him until then.
We could easily get an interim manager for a few months, that's going to at the very least inspire a little more belief into the squad, and give us a good chance of getting fourth, I can't see that happening with Rafa in charge.
[/quote]
Id take Dalglish right now but we dont sack managers during season at LFC.
[/quote]

Why not? We never used to actually sack managers at all, that's changed. Things change, LFC have to do whats best for LFC.

 

[Judge Jules]

Leaving aside unknowable things, such as whether Rafa's been given a target against which his performance is due to be measured at the end of the season:

1. Rafa might conceivably walk then, if Juve and/or Real maintain their reported interest;

2. We don't have the money to pay him off, and cutting him loose now would increase the bill still further as the matter would then go to law; and

3. Managers we'd really want to replace him are unlikely to be between jobs themselves, but might have reached the end of their respective contracts in the summer.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39211.msg1068473#msg1068473 date=1268404998]
Leaving aside unknowable things, such as whether Rafa's been given a target against which his performance is due to be measured at the end of the season:

1. Rafa might conceivably walk then, if Juve and/or Real maintain their reported interest;

2. We don't have the money to pay him off, and cutting him loose now would increase the bill still further as the matter would then go to law; and

3. Managers we'd really want to replace him are unlikely to be between jobs themselves, but might have reached the end of their respective contracts in the summer.
[/quote]

If we make Rafa available now to other clubs, he's more likely to go to one of them, before they get someone else. We're quite likely to take our time over it in the summer.

I'm not suggesting getting a long term solution now, but again if we get someone in now, to cover for a few months, then we could have a manager signed up and ready to go from the start of the summer, who could get his list of signings ready now. As well as the fact that a new interim manager has worked quite well with other clubs, giving them that spur on that we desperately need. I'm sick of the way we leave things until it's too late, and our targets our gone, we should strike now if we're going to do it at all.

 

[Mistadobalina]

It's all bollocks really. rafa is not getting sacked and we had better get used to the fact. And so had the ego-manic press influenced players. Playing like shit because you dont like the current regime is just about the lowest of the low. Sums up the modern footballer basically. they want fucking shooting the lot of them.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39211.msg1068470#msg1068470 date=1268404748]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=39211.msg1068469#msg1068469 date=1268404083]
Just for clarification, can someone list the reasons why we should not sack Rafa now instead of the end of the season. If we're going to get rid of him then, I can't see any advantage of keeping him until then.
We could easily get an interim manager for a few months, that's going to at the very least inspire a little more belief into the squad, and give us a good chance of getting fourth, I can't see that happening with Rafa in charge.
[/quote]
Id take Dalglish right now but we dont sack managers during season at LFC.
[/quote]

Bit of a myth that one. Obviously we used to win titles all the time so our managers tended to go on as long as they wanted to.
Since then (and I will exclude Kenny from this as his departure was clearly his own choice too even though it was mid season), Souness went during the season and Evans went during the season.
So if we consider our record since we have had to worry about managers who were failing and might need to go, 2 out of the 3 went mid season

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=39211.msg1068483#msg1068483 date=1268406582]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39211.msg1068470#msg1068470 date=1268404748]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=39211.msg1068469#msg1068469 date=1268404083]
Just for clarification, can someone list the reasons why we should not sack Rafa now instead of the end of the season. If we're going to get rid of him then, I can't see any advantage of keeping him until then.
We could easily get an interim manager for a few months, that's going to at the very least inspire a little more belief into the squad, and give us a good chance of getting fourth, I can't see that happening with Rafa in charge.
[/quote]
Id take Dalglish right now but we dont sack managers during season at LFC.
[/quote]

Bit of a myth that one. Obviously we used to win titles all the time so our managers tended to go on as long as they wanted to.
Since then (and I will exclude Kenny from this as his departure was clearly his own choice too even though it was mid season), Souness went during the season and Evans went during the season.
So if we consider our record since we have had to worry about managers who were failing and might need to go, 2 out of the 3 went mid season
[/quote]
Not sure about Souness but they quit didnt they?

 

[TheBunnyman]

Are Tom and George actually talking to each other at the moment? It's gonna be hard for them to make a joint decision of this importance if not.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

I don't think that will make a difference either way, considering that George is clearly Tom's bitch.

 

[Mistadobalina]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39211.msg1068505#msg1068505 date=1268408178]
Are Tom and George actually talking to each other at the moment? It's gonna be hard for them to make a joint decision of this importance if not.

[/quote]

The only thing that matters to them is the bottom dollar mate and personal differences will be put aside. Thats the world they live in. money talks for these retarded scumbag fucking hillbilly millionare cowboys.

The worst thig about it is their little adventure will piss off a million liverpool fans and make them 300 million eash in the meantime.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39211.msg1068490#msg1068490 date=1268407102]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=39211.msg1068483#msg1068483 date=1268406582]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39211.msg1068470#msg1068470 date=1268404748]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=39211.msg1068469#msg1068469 date=1268404083]
Just for clarification, can someone list the reasons why we should not sack Rafa now instead of the end of the season. If we're going to get rid of him then, I can't see any advantage of keeping him until then.
We could easily get an interim manager for a few months, that's going to at the very least inspire a little more belief into the squad, and give us a good chance of getting fourth, I can't see that happening with Rafa in charge.
[/quote]
Id take Dalglish right now but we dont sack managers during season at LFC.
[/quote]

Bit of a myth that one. Obviously we used to win titles all the time so our managers tended to go on as long as they wanted to.
Since then (and I will exclude Kenny from this as his departure was clearly his own choice too even though it was mid season), Souness went during the season and Evans went during the season.
So if we consider our record since we have had to worry about managers who were failing and might need to go, 2 out of the 3 went mid season
[/quote]
Not sure about Souness but they quit didnt they?
[/quote]

Officially yes but there wouldn't have been many begging Souness to stay (David Moores perhaps) and Evans would probably have been able to make a reasonable case of constructive dismissal!

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39211.msg1067652#msg1067652 date=1268317094]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39211.msg1067651#msg1067651 date=1268316761]
Why Rafael Benítez is still the right man for Liverpool

It is only natural for supporters to get frustrated when their club is going through a bad spell, and finger-pointing is always going to occur, especially when one of the top clubs in Europe is having such a torrid season.
But Liverpool fans shouldn’t be blaming their side’s poor form on Rafael Benítez, in fact if anyone’s the man to get the team out of this bad run, it’s him.

The defeat at Wigan Athletic on Monday night was the final straw for many Liverpool supporters. Despite sticking behind the manager through thick and thin over the last five years, a limp and lifeless performance against one of the League’s strugglers was a step too far for even some of the most staunch backers of the Spanish boss.

As with last season, many feel the bad result at the DW Stadium put an end to Liverpool’s domestic ambitions; last season it was finishing top, this season it is to finish a lowly fourth.

An ever-increasing percentage of Liverpool’s support is calling for the manager’s head, but it’s time for these fans to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Since Benítez’s arrival at Anfield in 2004 Liverpool have qualified for Europe’s top competition year-on-year, an accomplishment never achieved by any Liverpool manager before him. Up until this season, the earliest Liverpool were ever knocked out of the competition under Benítez was the first knockout round, to Benfica in 2006. Over the last five years the Spanish boss has taken his side to two Champions League finals, one semi-final, one quarter-final and one last-16 knockout round — a record most of the top managers in Europe would be proud of.

Whilst many Liverpool fans will suggest that the League should be the main target, the back-to-back qualifications for the Champions League demonstrate how much their domestic form has improved under Benítez, finishing in the top four in four of the five seasons. The only season Liverpool failed to finish in the top four was the one in which they won their fifth European Cup in Istanbul.

The quality of the team itself is another major issue at Anfield, which many say is lacking strength-in-depth and relies too heavily on two key players, Fernando Torres and captain Steven Gerrard. It should be evident to anyone who has any knowledge of the game that Liverpool do lack depth, but when the manager has been forced to sell in order to buy for most of the last two seasons, it is something of an inevitability. A prime example is the sale of Craig Bellamy to help fund the Fernando Torres deal. Despite the Spaniard being a much better player, Liverpool could now certainly do with Bellamy as a back-up.

The other major thorn in the side of Benítez is the club’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett. The two Americans have seemingly done everything in their power to hinder the manager’s attempts to improve the squad to challenge for the title in recent years. Whether that be not giving him the financial backing to bring in Gareth Barry, or going behind his back to discuss the manager’s position with Jürgen Klinsmann.

It would be fair to say that outside of Fratton Park, Benítez endures the worst working conditions of any manager in the Premier League. He has had his authority undermined on a number of occasions and has seen money from the sale of players being used to help finance the crippling debts placed on the club by its current owners.

Yes, Benítez can and does make mistakes and yes, it’s happened more often than usual this season. But the implications of him being removed from his post are unthinkable. Say what you like about the prestige of the Liverpool manager’s job, when you have no money to spend and are expected to win the League, no world-class manager would look twice at the position.

And that’s the problem Liverpool face. It would be close to impossible to find a manager with anywhere near Benítez’s vast experience who would go anywhere near the job.

Some of the short-term problems on the pitch may rightly be laid at the door of the manager, but if you want to find Liverpool’s long-term problem look no further than Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

[/quote]


excellent piece. where did you get it?
[/quote]

Seriously?

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Sacking Rafael Benitez is just fiddling while Liverpool burn
By Rory Smith

As Liverpool’s team plane touched down in Lille on Wednesday night, a dozen or so BlackBerries buzzed in the cheap seats. Email after email came through from Liverpool supporters with the foresight to copy journalists in on a missive directed at the Government-owned Royal Bank of Scotland, which decides in July whether to offer the club’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, a refinancing deal on Liverpool’s £237 million debt. A little over 36 hours later, The Daily Telegraph’s received tally stands at about 150 or so.

Kudos, of course, to the supporters who mobilised the power of an internet forum and Facebook to launch an organic campaign, and kudos to those who took the time to take part. But look at that figure. 150 emails. Of all the thousands who scour the internet forums and all the millions of Liverpool fans around the world. 150 emails. 150 people with five minutes to spare for the club they love.

Compare and contrast that to the ever-growing numbers – boosted after defeat in Lille, as the emails kept trickling through – adamant that Rafael Benitez must be sacked, that his increasingly likely failure to lead Liverpool back into the Champions League is a capital offence, that a new manager – Jose Mourinho, Fabio Capello, whoever – is the answer to their problems and prayers. Such thinking is deluded, and dangerous. <--- *Nods head*. The vast majority of Liverpool’s supporters are concerned with fiddling while their club burns.

There is a danger, with Liverpool, that suggesting there are greater problems than the Spaniard’s cautious tactics is seen as absolution of his sins. This, though, is not an apologia for Benitez. He, and his team, have had a poor season. They have lost 15 times. That is not good enough. Many of his players, his buys, are not good enough, and those that are good enough – Pepe Reina aside – are not playing well enough. That is, in part, his responsibility, and his failing.

Benitez, like all managers, will find his position reviewed at the end of the season. If Liverpool, for the first time in his spell at Anfield, are not in the Champions League, he may find his tenure drawn to a close. Posterity will prove, though, that the most significant denouement to their campaign is not whether the axe falls on Benitez or not, but who is wielding it.

If it is still Hicks and Gillett, removing Benitez will do little. His successor will find himself weighed down by the albatross of that debt, forced to sell to buy, handed just a percentage of what he raises, unable to overhaul a squad at the limit of its ability and patience, hamstrung by owners with neither the funds nor the inclination to deliver on Hicks’s promise of a “big†summer in the transfer market. True, he may play better football, or get a better press by virtue of being British, but only a miracle-worker could satisfy the Kop’s demands in such circumstances.

Under Hicks and Gillett, without outside investment, without some sort of change in the boardroom, without the funds to build a new stadium and the impetus to compete, Liverpool will slide into mediocrity, whether Benitez, Rinus Michels or Tele Santana is manager.

It may be Liverpool’s pursuit of fourth place which generates the headlines and the fury, which is seen as crucial to the club’s future, but Liverpool could, just, absorb the blow of missing out on the Champions League both in terms of finances and prestige. Missing out on investment, or on new owners? Sadly not. The battle that must be won, that they cannot afford to lose, is off the pitch. And only 150 people see it.

 

[manwithnoname]

"He, and his team, have had a poor season. They have lost 15 times. That is not good enough. Many of his players, his buys, are not good enough, and those that are good enough – Pepe Reina aside – are not playing well enough. That is, in part, his responsibility, and his failing".

This bit is indisputable, certainly. Many thanks for posting the article.

 

[TheBunnyman]

I agree with the article. New owners, new manager - that's what we need this summer.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Has he resigned yet?

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39211.msg1068571#msg1068571 date=1268415444]
Has he resigned yet?
[/quote]
Haha we wish!

 

[Mistadobalina]

montses last watch stopped ticking 6 months ago.

It comes done to this. I will always love you Rafa. I know you love Liverpool. I know you would do anything for the club. But the fact is modern football is not ran by the same principles you think it is. factors such as appearance and press attitude mean a lot these days. the modern footballer is a fickle scum bag with about as much an ear for your words as what the press association think. man child's who never learnt the principles of how to be a man and ones you take for granted. some fans are the same. thats life. Ce la vie.

 

[KopKing]

No.

 

[franklyfrank]

McLeish as Benitez alternative

by Richard Buxton. Published Fri 12 Mar 2010 23:41, Last updated: 2010-03-12

Liverpool are believed to be monitoring developments in Alex McLeish's contract talks with Birmingham City in the hope of installing him as their next manager, should Rafael Benitez leave the club.

The Reds have failed to build on last season's second-place finish in the Premier League, with the Spaniard coming under heavy fire from increasingly frustrated supporters as his side struggles to maintain their bid for Champions League qualification.

Thursday's Europa League defeat away to Lille further compounded the club's miseries and reports claim that Anfield chiefs have lined up the Scot, nicknamed Big 'Eck, as the man they want to take the reins in their dugout should Benitez resign.

However the pair both have clauses in their contracts with one-time Rangers boss McLeish's current deal demanding a buy-out clause of just £1 million. Benitez's contract, signed last year, is believed to be worth up to £20 million and can keep him on Merseyside until 2014.

Real Madrid have reportedly renewed their interest in the former Valencia coach with a view to replacing under-fire Manuel Pellegrini, following their humiliating Champions League exit to Lyon on Wednesday.

 

[Squiggles]

This rumour has been floating around the city for sometime, and when that's the case there's usually something in it.

It would be a bold move.

I hope it's down to good, assured judgement and not just down to cost. I also hope Gerrard wouldn't turn his nose up at such an appointment...

 

[Skullflower]

i reckon rafa's leaking the mcleish stories.

 

[krissr]

[quote author=Mr_V link=topic=39211.msg1068295#msg1068295 date=1268387398]
Will the last person out, please close the door.

Rafa Benitez, your time is up.

Tom Hicks and George Gillett, your time is up.

20 years of building, wasted. A new stadium promised and not delivered. Custodians of of the club failed us, lied to us, continue to take joe public for a fool. Seldom do Football clubs make a profit these days, Gillett and Hicks failed us again and again.

But Benitez must take the lion's share of the blame for our current mess. We've spent on big players, but £35-40m have arguably been spent on our two biggest flops in the modern era (Aqualini & Keane).

So from the 2010-11 season, we will be chasing a top 4 finish, building again. Hopefully without Benitez, and hopefully without our useless owners. But we are not the force we want to be. The pain has only just begun. I fear if G&H do not sell, we'll struggle to a top half finish next year, the slippery slope with slippers on is ahead of us.

Benitez's failings:
1) Probably the only team still in Europe that consistantly adopts zonal marking... It cost us AGAIN!

2) Fringe players and big name flops, we consistantly are being told by Benitez that top players want to come here, ok, but you've bought top players and don't know what to do with them.

3) The continued insistance on playing Mascherano and Lucas in the same team. It's proven time and time again it doesn't work. I'd be very interested to see the win ratio with them in the same team and without them.

4) No plan B - Other managers will change to 4-4-2, 4-3-3 4-2-4 to chase a game, why is it when we are behing we stick with 4-2-3-1 and only change it with 10 minutes to go. It's just predictable and fucking wank.

The last 6 months have been by FAR the worst of my supporting life, and even the harshest of Houllier Critics should now concede this is by far worse.

Thanks Benitez for the European & FA Cup, thanks for Mascherano and Torres, thanks for continually beating Everton and finding out Man Utd. Thanks for some truely wonderful moments, but that's all they were... Moments, not continous success.

Thanks Gillett and Hicks for bankrolling us for a YEAR.

NOW FUCK OFF THE LOT OF YOU!
[/quote]


What a load of rubbish that is, 9/10 teams use zonal marking, last season in the champions league, 31 out of the 32 teams used it, and also Chelsea have conceded more from zonal marking this season in the prem than us

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39211.msg1068711#msg1068711 date=1268447228]
i reckon rafa's leaking the mcleish stories.
[/quote]

ha

 

[RealRedBlood]

I wouldn't mind if he went now!