Creativity again and the lack of it

[Modo]

We lack creativity in midfield. The emergence of Suso, Shelvey, Pacheco and Sterling is a step in the right direction but they're still young and we can't count on them to make an instant impact.

Then there's our new signing Borini, but he's more of a finisher and not a creator.
Some might say Allen, I'm not sure that he's the solution either. Sure he can pass and position himself well on the pitch but I see him as more of an anchor than a creative midfielder.

We need a Silva, Mata, Iniesta, Hazard, Özil, Lodeiro, Belhanda, Pastore, Hamsik, Wilshire, Jovetic, Ganso, Modric, Thiago, Canales, Gourcuff, Eriksen etc type player.

I've had this as my signature for a while and what I mean by it is that we've needed a creative player who can play between the lines, in the hole, so to speak.
But since Rodgers tactics doesn't have a player in that position I'd rather we look for a creative wing-forward. Another Suarez if you will. I'm really not comfortable with Suarez being our only creative outlet.

Here are some stats to back my claim (from may 2012):



Clear cut chances created 2011/12:
Man C 78
Man U 74
Arsenal 88
Tottenham 63
Newcastle 32
Chelsea 42
Liverpool 51

Clear cut chance conversion 2011/12:
Man C - 44%
Man U - 44%
Arsenal - 36%
Tottenham - 35%
Newcastle - 49%
Chelsea - 48%
Liverpool - 29%


Total shots/shots on target 2011/12:

Man C 501/235 - 47%
Man U 454/236 - 51%
Arsenal 465/234 - 50%
Tottenham 481/220 - 46%
Newcastle 339/148 - 44%
Chelsea 489/218 - 45%
Liverpool 488/196 - 40%

Passes in attacking half 2011/12:
Man C - 62%
Man U - 63%
Arsenal - 60%
Tottenham - 58%
Newcastle - 59%
Chelsea - 59%
Liverpool - 59%

Is it fair to say that Suarez created about 27 (or more) out of our 51 clear cut chances? (since he often does create chances for himself...)

 

[dantes]

I think whoever plotted that graph was too young even for you Modo.

 

[hmmmmm1]

I can see another attacker playing in front 3 coming in.

We have to, with us loosing Maxi and Kuyt.

 

[Rosco]

You'll never have creativity until there's movement first. We don't move enough without the ball, signing one of the players on your list wont change that. Rodgers might though

 

[moron]

You'll never have creativity until there's movement first. We don't move enough without the ball, signing one of the players on your list wont change that. Rodgers might though

Totally correct on this point - last season I remember lots of runs into the opposition half by our wide players only to see fuck all number of players run into a useful area to either cross or pass to.

 

[Gary25]

We really lack width.

Centrally, there's more questions than answers:

- Will Lucas come back good as new?
- Can Gerrard stay injury free?
- What will become of Henderson?
- What role will Aquilani play should he stay?
- What Charlie Adam will turn up?
- Can Shelvey really make his mark this season?

Midfield is a big concern imo and without an effective and cohesive midfield - both defensively and offensively, we're basically fucked. Might be a cliche but generally it's where the game is won and lost.

 

[moron]

the problem is that last season our worse games I think were away to Spurs, and Fulham. In most of the games we played we dominated but could not score - I don't think we lack the players - I just think we lack a cutting edge in front of goal and a complete lack of consistency.

Good Night.

 

[Gary25]

the problem is that last season our worse games I think were away to Spurs, and Fulham. In most of the games we played we dominated but could not score - I don't think we lack the players - I just think we lack a cutting edge in front of goal and a complete lack of consistency.

Good Night.

Still think our midfield was very weak in a lot games when it came to protecting the defence, also lacking productivity in the final third.

Of course we need our forwards to create and score but the midfield need to support and chip in as well.

We have an array of midfielders but it's very difficult to think of a combination that would work which says it all. If we bought Joe Allen that might change, could see him linking up well with Lucas and Gerrard.

 

[RolandG]

Last season we dominated most games but we lacked a finisher and creativity when teams parked the bus. Borini may be the catalyst we need up front with Suarez but we definately need another creative forward who can make things happen. Suarez has to improve his finishing and should not be left on his own to create everything. We need to share the load and goals if we are to win more often.

 

[Fox]

stats that we all expected to be honest, says it all

 

[keniget]

Last season our midfield was dysfunctional, no question. We missed a defensive presence after Lucas got injured and Adam was a problem in that he was too easily bypassed and apart from the odd moment looked pretty clueless a lot of the time. I'd love to replace him and but really I'd hope that we could address most of the issues by coaching and the return of an in form Lucas.

The truth of the matter is that we needed a couple more top quality attackers when we had one of the best midfields in the world a few years back and nothing has changed since then. If anything matters have deteriorated as Gerrard is on the wane.

I'm not expecting us to carve teams open with great movement and neat triangles. That kind of football takes time to perfect and more pertinently attacking talent to provide penetration in the final third. Swansea had Sinclair and his counterpart on the wings performing that function, whilst Barcelona obviously have a glittering array of talent spearheaded by Messi.

We're not going to be good enough with Suarez trying to beat 5 defenders all on his own again and I'm loath to put my faith in Downing, Borini and co.

 

[Mystic]

That's a bit harsh on Borini?

 

[keniget]

I don't mean to single him out as being shit rather was talking about our attacking options as a whole.

 

[Ryan]

You'll never have creativity until there's movement first. TRUE. We don't move enough without the ball TRUE, signing one of the players on your list wont change that NOT TRUE. Rodgers might though

Firstly, I haven't looked at Modo's "list" so if he's got some collection of mongs on there, this next point's gonna look a bit ridiculous.

But, you can sign players who know about movement. They exist. They're fucking good players, and usually come with a pricetag that fits too, but if you're insinuating that you have to 'teach' movement to all players then that's not quite right.

Movement's a pretty broad term. Dirk Kuyt moves and David Silva moves, but (and I'm a fucking huge Dirk fan remember), there's a bit of a difference between the type of movement they both do.

How is it that Suarez continually picks the ball up in the hole? To time and time again find gaps to receive possession? Even when playing against a team that's playing with a holding midfielder? It's not cos he knows how to move - Christ even Andy fucking Carroll knows how to continually move - it's cos he knows how to create space, and most of that simply cannot be taught. You cannot teach a footballer to read the game 5 passes in advance the way Iniesta does, the way Paul Scholes does, or the way Zidane used to.

I'm not suggesting that Rodgers can't work with players and help them take up better positions, away from the opposition (Christ that's the principle of a 4-3-3), but to suggest that you can't buy a player who doesn't know how to move better, to find space better, and to create better than your average Jay Spearing is simply incorrect.

 

[Modo]

My list Ryan:

We need a Silva, Mata, Iniesta, Hazard, Özil, Lodeiro, Belhanda, Pastore, Hamsik, Wilshire, Jovetic, Ganso, Modric, Thiago, Canales, Gourcuff, Eriksen etc type player.

 

[Mystic]

That's why I'm excited about Borini, Rodgers and the fan views that have been posted on here have all spoken about how good his movement is off the ball, this was exactly why Maxi always scored despite the fact everyone always thought he played averagely, he knows exactly where to be.

 

[Modo]

That's why I'm excited about Borini, Rodgers and the fan views that have been posted on here have all spoken about how good his movement is off the ball, this was exactly why Maxi always scored despite the fact everyone always thought he played averagely, he knows exactly where to be.

OK now you have your movement. but who's gonna hit that pass?
We've only got one player in the first team who can dribble past his marker and that's Suarez.
Imo we need at least one more.

 

[Mystic]

OK now you have your movement. but who's gonna hit that pass?
We've only got one player in the first team who can dribble past his marker and that's Suarez.
Imo we need at least one more.

Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson, Allen (on the assumption we get him), Adam, Shelvey can all pass, and pass well. The problem isn't the passers, it's the lack of somewhere to pass.

 

[mark1975]

OK now you have your movement. but who's gonna hit that pass?
We've only got one player in the first team who can dribble past his marker and that's Suarez.
Imo we need at least one more.

What's dribbling past markers got to do with playing the pass? It's two completely separate issues, we have enough good passers in the side, we need creativity outwide and the team needs to learn how to move as a team on and off the ball, instead of the turgid static rubbish we've witnessed more often than not in recent seasons.

 

[Modo]

Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson, Allen (on the assumption we get him), Adam, Shelvey can all pass, and pass well. The problem isn't the passers, it's the lack of somewhere to pass.

No I don't agree at all. I'm gonna leave Shelvey and Allen out of this since one has barely played for us and the other doesnt.
All of our midfielders are generally good at passing the ball in the middle of the park. Some can hit wonderful diagonal balls, some can even do lung bursting runs in into the oppositions box.
But neither of them, are good at finding players in the box. Neither of them can imo play an incisive pass to a player in the box. Passes that I see Silva, Iniesta and Mata do regularly.
You say that we don't have movement? Suarez was moving his ass all over the pitch but where did he get the ball? In wide areas or when he had to go deep to pick it up.

 

[Modo]

What's dribbling past markers got to do with playing the pass? It's two completely separate issues, we have enough good passers in the side, we need creativity outwide and the team needs to learn how to move as a team on and off the ball, instead of the turgid static rubbish we've witnessed more often than not in recent seasons.

Dribbling to me is a form of creativity. We don't have enough of it.

 

[mark1975]

No I don't agree at all. I'm gonna leave Shelvey and Allen out of this since one has barely played for us and the other doesnt.
All of our midfielders are generally good at passing the ball in the middle of the park. Some can hit wonderful diagonal balls, some can even do lung bursting runs in into the oppositions box.
But neither of them, are good at finding players in the box. Neither of them can imo play an incisive pass to a player in the box. Passes that I see Silva, Iniesta and Mata do regularly.
You say that we don't have movement? Suarez was moving his ass all over the pitch but where did he get the ball? In wide areas or when he had to go deep to pick it up.

Finding the pass is two fold Modo, it's not always down to the ability of the passer, we have to move to open up spaces to play the ball into, we also have to make the run for the passer to find. We did neither last season, we were static and one dimensional.

Of course we don't have someone like Yossi these days who threads the ball through the eye of a needle, but we do have players who are capable of finding openings, like Gerrard and Shelvey, and even on occasion, Lucas. You keep using the Mata, Iniesta and Silva type examples, all players who are at the very top of the game and unfortunately, out of our range at present. It's a moot point. You may aswell say, we lack someone who will score 40 goals a season, like Messi or Ronaldo.

 

[mark1975]

Dribbling to me is a form of creativity. We don't have enough of it.

Yeah but it's got nothing to do with playing the pass, it's a separate issue, you asked who is going to hit the pass, as we only have one player who can dribble.

 

[Mystic]

No I don't agree at all. I'm gonna leave Shelvey and Allen out of this since one has barely played for us and the other doesnt.
All of our midfielders are generally good at passing the ball in the middle of the park. Some can hit wonderful diagonal balls, some can even do lung bursting runs in into the oppositions box.
But neither of them, are good at finding players in the box. Neither of them can imo play an incisive pass to a player in the box. Passes that I see Silva, Iniesta and Mata do regularly.
You say that we don't have movement? Suarez was moving his ass all over the pitch but where did he get the ball? In wide areas or when he had to go deep to pick it up.

Suarez often received the ball in dangerous positions, part of the reason he had to go out wide a little more than usual was because there was zero else movement around him to create space, yet still he often received the ball in brilliant positions in the centre. He and Maxi were the two players who often ended up with the ball in dangerous positions last season, they also happened to be the only two players in the squad who had good off the ball movement, it all adds up to the same point, we need better movement, Borini, from what i've read, is a good start.

 

[Modo]

Finding the pass is two fold Modo, it's not always down to the ability of the passer, we have to move to open up spaces to play the ball into, we also have to make the run for the passer to find. We did neither last season, we were static and one dimensional.

Of course we don't have someone like Yossi these days who threads the ball through the eye of a needle, but we do have players who are capable of finding openings, like Gerrard and Shelvey, and even on occasion, Lucas. You keep using the Mata, Iniesta and Silva type examples, all players who are at the very top of the game and unfortunately, out of our range at present. It's a moot point. You may aswell say, we lack someone who will score 40 goals a season, like Messi or Ronaldo.

Luis Garcia.

 

[Modo]

Yeah but it's got nothing to do with playing the pass, it's a separate issue, you asked who is going to hit the pass, as we only have one player who can dribble.

Yeah you're right. That came from nowhere.

 

[ibromurph]

Yeah but it's got nothing to do with playing the pass, it's a separate issue, you asked who is going to hit the pass, as we only have one player who can dribble.

It's breaks my heart that United are looking to sign a player like:



And we're looking at players like Dempsey (as decent as he may be).

There's simply not enough skill, dribbling or individualism in our team.

 

[keniget]

I had to stop watching after 40secs. It was too depressing.

I agree. We need a player that can do some of that. Some of what Suarez does.

There is a tendency to jump on the bandwagon amongst fans. First it was moneyball. That will solve all our problems. Now it's tiki-taka football. That will solve all our problems. It's not going to.

We've needed a player or two with pace and ability for years now and summer after summer we get lumped with the Pennants and Downings of the world. When will it end?

 

[Ryan]

He takes far FAR too many touches.

Ronaldo (greasy) was like that at Sporting Lesbian. Head down trying to beat 18 cunts, and then going back round them to do it again, to no real effect. The cut that shit out at United and focused on impact instead of showboating.

Some stepovers (not Kewell-style) would be nice but I don't want Denilson either.

 

[Ryan]

Keni - just for old time's sake:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvzAhtbPrcY