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Charlie Adam

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Re: Re: Charlie Adam

[quote author=Lewy link=topic=42898.msg1355541#msg1355541 date=1309097587]
[quote author=jono@home link=topic=42898.msg1355530#msg1355530 date=1309096442]
I hear the deal includes stephen darby and jonjo shelvey going on loan for 12 months the other way..

Sent from my HTC Desire
[/quote]

i heard that, dont really car about darby, i think if shelvey goes on loan he really needs to stay in the premiership
[/quote]

At least he will play for a team who tries to play football
 
[quote author=jono@home link=topic=42898.msg1355530#msg1355530 date=1309096442]
I hear the deal includes stephen darby and jonjo shelvey going on loan for 12 months the other way..

Sent from my HTC Desire
[/quote]

@Andrew_Heaton: The stories about Darbs going to Blackpool are nonsense, no one has spoken to him about any move.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42898.msg1355430#msg1355430 date=1309084195]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42898.msg1355421#msg1355421 date=1309083567]
We're similarly place to Juventus, who just signed Aguero.
[/quote]

it's hot in italy and rarely rains...
[/quote]

You do realise where Turin is don't you ? It can be shit cold in winter and snow fuck loads .


And anyway , has this move been confirmed ? It's not the thread for it but you wonder if we should have kept the carroll money until summer and gone for this lad instead .
 
Oh and as i think has been mentioned before in this thread , if meireles is pissed at anyone it should be his agent . Who signs a low wage deal and takes a verbal agreement of a wage increase , especially from people who were 'trying' to sell the club and might not even be there next season. And that is thankfully what panned out so if he's sulking he can get fucked .
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=42898.msg1355564#msg1355564 date=1309098602]
Oh and as i think has been mentioned before in this thread , if meireles is pissed at anyone it should be his agent . Who signs a low wage deal and takes a verbal agreement of a wage increase , especially from people who were 'trying' to sell the club and might not even be there next season. And that is thankfully what panned out so if he's sulking he can get fucked .
[/quote]

He should be payed decent wages for his contribution to the team. he had a very good season, and has shown the kind of integrity we need from players representing us. No nonsence, no selfish sulking and no blaming all others than himself for Pool not delivering a good enough season.
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42898.msg1355569#msg1355569 date=1309098939]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=42898.msg1355564#msg1355564 date=1309098602]
Oh and as i think has been mentioned before in this thread , if meireles is pissed at anyone it should be his agent . Who signs a low wage deal and takes a verbal agreement of a wage increase , especially from people who were 'trying' to sell the club and might not even be there next season. And that is thankfully what panned out so if he's sulking he can get fucked .
[/quote]

He should be payed decent wages for his contribution to the team. he had a very good season, and has shown the kind of integrity we need from players representing us. No nonsence, no selfish sulking and no blaming all others than himself for Pool not delivering a good enough season.
[/quote]


I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a pay increase for his performances , i am saying that if he feels the club are screwing him on a verbal agreement made with people no longer there and now he is looking to leave because of this , well then he needs to cop on . He was stupid enough not to get it in writing so can't moan too much .
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355492#msg1355492 date=1309092718]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42898.msg1355490#msg1355490 date=1309092395]
with those appearance records how can carrick only have 3 title medals?? 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011.
[/quote]

It is 4 then, my bad :laugh: yeah that's right, Man U won 3 in a row before Chelsea won it again, then Man U won it last season.


[/quote]Thanks for that. Always love reading a post like that.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42898.msg1355696#msg1355696 date=1309116581]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355492#msg1355492 date=1309092718]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42898.msg1355490#msg1355490 date=1309092395]
with those appearance records how can carrick only have 3 title medals?? 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011.
[/quote]

It is 4 then, my bad :laugh: yeah that's right, Man U won 3 in a row before Chelsea won it again, then Man U won it last season.


[/quote]Thanks for that. Always love reading a post like that.
[/quote]

ha ha sorry about that. Was just making a point about Carrick, squad player my backside.
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355486#msg1355486 date=1309092131]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355331#msg1355331 date=1309072259]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355272#msg1355272 date=1309042080]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355267#msg1355267 date=1309041679]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355264#msg1355264 date=1309041469]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355261#msg1355261 date=1309041214]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42898.msg1355257#msg1355257 date=1309040739]
Great signing.
[/quote]

Yeah we've done really well to capture his signing ahead of all the other top 4 clubs that were chasing him.
[/quote]

That has nothing to do with it.

Tell me this, who was after Carrick before United signed him? Or Valencia? Or Hernandez? and so on.
[/quote]

Nobody was after Carrick cos he wasn't great, and still isn't.

And, as I've pointed out previously - United can afford to spend big money on beefing out the squad cos they've got world class players all over the park, whereas we don't.
[/quote]

I don't think Carrick's great myself but he has 4 league titles and a Champions League to his name since he joined whilst being ever present in Man U's midfield so he must be doing something right.

Hate to use this phrase but it's horses for courses, i think we need a ball playing midfielder more than Man U/Chelsea/Arsenal do hence our interest in Adam.

[/quote]

Carrick has not been 'ever present' in Utd's midfield. As such, your point about him winning trophies merely reinforces Ryan's point about them having a strong first team. Having that base enables them to top up the squad with players like Carrick.

I'm skeptical about Adam. If you discount his penalties, he scored two goals last season, and only one of them was in open play. He offers nothing defensively, so can't have been bought to help out (or replace) Lucas. In which case I can only assume he's been bought to replace the outgoing Ming, because he plays in a position which we are currently over-subscribed for.

Having said that, he has a nice highlight reel, and did manage to stand out in some very big games for Blackpool last season, so let's hope he can do the same for us.
[/quote]

2006–07: 52 appearances
2007-08: 49 appearances
2008-09: 43 appearances
2009:10: 44 appearances
2010:11: 43 appearances

"Squad player" Michael Carrick, are you sure ???


You don't necessarily need world class talent all over the pitch.

As Mark1975 pointed out, Man U have quite a few players that aren't world class, but they still perform well, serve a purpose and allow the world class talent to express themselves.
[/quote]

You appear to be trying to prove a point you were arguing with a few posts back.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42898.msg1355738#msg1355738 date=1309126881]
He's not been first choice this season.
[/quote]

Granted Fergie left him out in games at the start of the season, but come the second half of the season he was a regular. 43 appearances.

Look at Man U's starting line up when there's a big game, Carrick's in it more often than not.

O'Shea, Evans, Anderson, Park, they're all squad players. Carrick isn't.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355748#msg1355748 date=1309129009]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355486#msg1355486 date=1309092131]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355331#msg1355331 date=1309072259]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355272#msg1355272 date=1309042080]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355267#msg1355267 date=1309041679]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355264#msg1355264 date=1309041469]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355261#msg1355261 date=1309041214]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42898.msg1355257#msg1355257 date=1309040739]
Great signing.
[/quote]

Yeah we've done really well to capture his signing ahead of all the other top 4 clubs that were chasing him.
[/quote]

That has nothing to do with it.

Tell me this, who was after Carrick before United signed him? Or Valencia? Or Hernandez? and so on.
[/quote]

Nobody was after Carrick cos he wasn't great, and still isn't.

And, as I've pointed out previously - United can afford to spend big money on beefing out the squad cos they've got world class players all over the park, whereas we don't.
[/quote]

I don't think Carrick's great myself but he has 4 league titles and a Champions League to his name since he joined whilst being ever present in Man U's midfield so he must be doing something right.

Hate to use this phrase but it's horses for courses, i think we need a ball playing midfielder more than Man U/Chelsea/Arsenal do hence our interest in Adam.

[/quote]

Carrick has not been 'ever present' in Utd's midfield. As such, your point about him winning trophies merely reinforces Ryan's point about them having a strong first team. Having that base enables them to top up the squad with players like Carrick.

I'm skeptical about Adam. If you discount his penalties, he scored two goals last season, and only one of them was in open play. He offers nothing defensively, so can't have been bought to help out (or replace) Lucas. In which case I can only assume he's been bought to replace the outgoing Ming, because he plays in a position which we are currently over-subscribed for.

Having said that, he has a nice highlight reel, and did manage to stand out in some very big games for Blackpool last season, so let's hope he can do the same for us.
[/quote]

2006–07: 52 appearances
2007-08: 49 appearances
2008-09: 43 appearances
2009:10: 44 appearances
2010:11: 43 appearances

"Squad player" Michael Carrick, are you sure ???


You don't necessarily need world class talent all over the pitch.

As Mark1975 pointed out, Man U have quite a few players that aren't world class, but they still perform well, serve a purpose and allow the world class talent to express themselves.
[/quote]

You appear to be trying to prove a point you were arguing with a few posts back.
[/quote]

And that is?

You said Carrick was a squad player for Man U...factually incorrect.
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355762#msg1355762 date=1309131168]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355748#msg1355748 date=1309129009]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355486#msg1355486 date=1309092131]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355331#msg1355331 date=1309072259]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355272#msg1355272 date=1309042080]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355267#msg1355267 date=1309041679]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355264#msg1355264 date=1309041469]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355261#msg1355261 date=1309041214]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42898.msg1355257#msg1355257 date=1309040739]
Great signing.
[/quote]

Yeah we've done really well to capture his signing ahead of all the other top 4 clubs that were chasing him.
[/quote]

That has nothing to do with it.

Tell me this, who was after Carrick before United signed him? Or Valencia? Or Hernandez? and so on.
[/quote]

Nobody was after Carrick cos he wasn't great, and still isn't.

And, as I've pointed out previously - United can afford to spend big money on beefing out the squad cos they've got world class players all over the park, whereas we don't.
[/quote]

I don't think Carrick's great myself but he has 4 league titles and a Champions League to his name since he joined whilst being ever present in Man U's midfield so he must be doing something right.

Hate to use this phrase but it's horses for courses, i think we need a ball playing midfielder more than Man U/Chelsea/Arsenal do hence our interest in Adam.

[/quote]

Carrick has not been 'ever present' in Utd's midfield. As such, your point about him winning trophies merely reinforces Ryan's point about them having a strong first team. Having that base enables them to top up the squad with players like Carrick.

I'm skeptical about Adam. If you discount his penalties, he scored two goals last season, and only one of them was in open play. He offers nothing defensively, so can't have been bought to help out (or replace) Lucas. In which case I can only assume he's been bought to replace the outgoing Ming, because he plays in a position which we are currently over-subscribed for.

Having said that, he has a nice highlight reel, and did manage to stand out in some very big games for Blackpool last season, so let's hope he can do the same for us.
[/quote]

2006–07: 52 appearances
2007-08: 49 appearances
2008-09: 43 appearances
2009:10: 44 appearances
2010:11: 43 appearances

"Squad player" Michael Carrick, are you sure ???


You don't necessarily need world class talent all over the pitch.

As Mark1975 pointed out, Man U have quite a few players that aren't world class, but they still perform well, serve a purpose and allow the world class talent to express themselves.
[/quote]

You appear to be trying to prove a point you were arguing with a few posts back.
[/quote]

And that is?

You said Carrick was a squad player for Man U...factually incorrect.
[/quote]

David N'gog played 38 games for us last season.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355774#msg1355774 date=1309151931]
It's actually factually correct.
[/quote]

He dropped down last season but prior to that he was an ever present and won titles, the point's still valid even if it doesn't really apply to last season.
 
United don't really have a first choice central midfield because none of them are that good.

So if you define a squad player by someone who isn't regarded as one of the first names of the teamsheets rather someone who fills the empty spots, Carrick fits the bill. If you define a squad player as someone who doesn't play that regularly, Carrick doesn't fit the bill.

Depends on your viewpoint really, I guess it's easier to lean towards the second definition because it's more intuitive.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355774#msg1355774 date=1309151931]
It's actually factually correct.
[/quote]

It's actually not. Whoever thinks Carrick has been a squad player at Old Trafford is clearly in need of a visit to the Docs.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355778#msg1355778 date=1309155321]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355762#msg1355762 date=1309131168]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355748#msg1355748 date=1309129009]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355486#msg1355486 date=1309092131]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1355331#msg1355331 date=1309072259]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355272#msg1355272 date=1309042080]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355267#msg1355267 date=1309041679]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355264#msg1355264 date=1309041469]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355261#msg1355261 date=1309041214]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42898.msg1355257#msg1355257 date=1309040739]
Great signing.
[/quote]

Yeah we've done really well to capture his signing ahead of all the other top 4 clubs that were chasing him.
[/quote]

That has nothing to do with it.

Tell me this, who was after Carrick before United signed him? Or Valencia? Or Hernandez? and so on.
[/quote]

Nobody was after Carrick cos he wasn't great, and still isn't.

And, as I've pointed out previously - United can afford to spend big money on beefing out the squad cos they've got world class players all over the park, whereas we don't.
[/quote]

I don't think Carrick's great myself but he has 4 league titles and a Champions League to his name since he joined whilst being ever present in Man U's midfield so he must be doing something right.

Hate to use this phrase but it's horses for courses, i think we need a ball playing midfielder more than Man U/Chelsea/Arsenal do hence our interest in Adam.

[/quote]

Carrick has not been 'ever present' in Utd's midfield. As such, your point about him winning trophies merely reinforces Ryan's point about them having a strong first team. Having that base enables them to top up the squad with players like Carrick.

I'm skeptical about Adam. If you discount his penalties, he scored two goals last season, and only one of them was in open play. He offers nothing defensively, so can't have been bought to help out (or replace) Lucas. In which case I can only assume he's been bought to replace the outgoing Ming, because he plays in a position which we are currently over-subscribed for.

Having said that, he has a nice highlight reel, and did manage to stand out in some very big games for Blackpool last season, so let's hope he can do the same for us.
[/quote]

2006–07: 52 appearances
2007-08: 49 appearances
2008-09: 43 appearances
2009:10: 44 appearances
2010:11: 43 appearances

"Squad player" Michael Carrick, are you sure ???


You don't necessarily need world class talent all over the pitch.

As Mark1975 pointed out, Man U have quite a few players that aren't world class, but they still perform well, serve a purpose and allow the world class talent to express themselves.
[/quote]

You appear to be trying to prove a point you were arguing with a few posts back.
[/quote]

And that is?

You said Carrick was a squad player for Man U...factually incorrect.
[/quote]

David N'gog played 38 games for us last season.
[/quote]

A lot of them in the Europa League or from the bench. Admittedly Carrick was left out at the start of the season, but that aside, he's been a regular since he joined from Spurs.
It's usually been Carrick playing with another...Scholes/Giggs/Fletcher/Anderson.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42898.msg1355779#msg1355779 date=1309156755]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=42898.msg1355774#msg1355774 date=1309151931]
It's actually factually correct.
[/quote]

He dropped down last season but prior to that he was an ever present and won titles, the point's still valid even if it doesn't really apply to last season.
[/quote]

Exactly 😀
 
Yep, he's been a regular for a title winning side for a few years, it's nowhere near the same contribution as N'Gog, if you asked someone over the last few years to name United's best team out of what's available, he'd be in it.
 
Yeah lets move on from the Carrick chat.

Back to Adam, I'm happy with him coming. His set piece delivery will add another dimension to our game and benefit Carroll.
 
If Stevie and Suarez are both on the pitch, do you think Adam would get a chance to take a set piece around the box?
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=42898.msg1356004#msg1356004 date=1309178640]
If Stevie and Suarez are both on the pitch, do you think Adam would get a chance to take a set piece around the box?
[/quote]

if it favours a left footer
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42898.msg1355993#msg1355993 date=1309176899]
Can someone remind me: why are we arguing about Carrick?
[/quote]

ha ha. A point was raised about not necessarily needing world class talent throughout the team for it to be successful, and i used the example of Carrick at Utd. Then a little disagreement followed over whether Carrick is a squad player for them or not...he clearly isn't 😀

Anyhow, moving on...
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355906#msg1355906 date=1309170964]
A lot of them in the Europa League or from the bench. Admittedly Carrick was left out at the start of the season, but that aside, he's been a regular since he joined from Spurs.
It's usually been Carrick playing with another...Scholes/Giggs/Fletcher/Anderson.
[/quote]

Quite.

Michael Carrick started 23 of Utd's 38 premiership games this season. He started 22 the season before that. You and I obviously have different definitions of 'ever-present'. But as others have said, it's not really worth quibbling over.

My original point was that I consider him to be somewhat of a luxury player for Utd - a bit like Adam would be for us with our current crop of midfielders. The difference is, and the point Ryan was making, is that they can afford to fine-tune because they already have a formidable first team. We don't have that luxury.

It may be that we have a fortune to spend this transfer window, and that our other issues will be addressed, but I just worry that we're going to start yet another season with fundamental weaknesses in our squad. And if that does happen, people will be asking why we concentrated so much of our efforts on signing players that we didn't really need.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1356014#msg1356014 date=1309179747]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=42898.msg1355906#msg1355906 date=1309170964]
A lot of them in the Europa League or from the bench. Admittedly Carrick was left out at the start of the season, but that aside, he's been a regular since he joined from Spurs.
It's usually been Carrick playing with another...Scholes/Giggs/Fletcher/Anderson.
[/quote]

Quite.

Michael Carrick started 23 of Utd's 38 premiership games this season. He started 22 the season before that. You and I obviously have different definitions of 'ever-present'. But as others have said, it's not really worth quibbling over.

My original point was that I consider him to be somewhat of a luxury player for Utd - a bit like Adam would be for us with our current crop of midfielders. The difference is, and the point Ryan was making, is that they can afford to fine-tune because they already have a formidable first team. We don't have that luxury.

It may be that we have a fortune to spend this transfer window, and that our other issues will be addressed, but I just worry that we're going to start yet another season with fundamental weaknesses in our squad. And if that does happen, people will be asking why we concentrated so much of our efforts on signing players that we didn't really need.
[/quote]

Perhaps saying he was ever present wasn't the right thing to say, but very few players are ever present...injuries/suspensions/loss of form/squad rortation.
He's no a squad player either though, far from it.

As i say, O'Shea for example is a squad player for Utd. Carrick isn't.

We're going nowhere here, so lets just agree to disagree.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42898.msg1356014#msg1356014 date=1309179747]

It may be that we have a fortune to spend this transfer window, and that our other issues will be addressed, but I just worry that we're going to start yet another season with fundamental weaknesses in our squad. And if that does happen, people will be asking why we concentrated so much of our efforts on signing players that we didn't really need.
[/quote]

What are these other issues in the squad that need to be addressed?

I personally think we're really only in need of a world class left winger and a dominant arial presence at CB. With Cahill, Sanchez, Hazard all being in our interest I think it's clear these areas are a focus; that doesn't mean we neglect other signings.

I personally am pretty happy with the midfield signings; we look strong in the centre of the pitch right across the squad. I'll be pretty pissed if Ming goes - particularly if we're comfortable to spite ourselves by reneging on a verbal agreement which clearly should be honoured.

Either way the other positions don't have anywhere near the depth of talent available and so I'd expect the negotiations to be more protracted and - probably - more costly.
 
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