Poll Carlo or Klopp?
- Thread starter Red Astaire
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
Prefix for Poll Threads
- Status
Given how shit our transfers are, will either of these managers be as successful as they have been ?
From whatever little I know, Klopp had the support of one of the best DOF and scouting system in Europe who completely understood what he wanted and delivered players who fit his style of play, year after year. I am not trying to diminish Klopp's role here as to his credit he took the players and created a system where the sum was greater than the parts while playing some breathtaking football. All of the players who leave Dortmund never appear to reach those heights and I think a big part of that is that Klopp's tactics make them look better than what they are. But from afar it looks like he had the perfect symbiotic equilibrium system at Dortmund and can he function at the same level here where we have a success rate of about 1 in 5 players.
We have had all these managers who move to Sevilla, shit trophies, and then move elsewhere never to win a trophy again. How much of Klopp's success is due to him and how much is it due to the background team? He will have access to more money here but can he replicate the same success with one of the worst background teams around? We know he is an outstanding coach but does he have the nous and the connections to recruit a new background team?
From whatever little I know, Klopp had the support of one of the best DOF and scouting system in Europe who completely understood what he wanted and delivered players who fit his style of play, year after year. I am not trying to diminish Klopp's role here as to his credit he took the players and created a system where the sum was greater than the parts while playing some breathtaking football. All of the players who leave Dortmund never appear to reach those heights and I think a big part of that is that Klopp's tactics make them look better than what they are. But from afar it looks like he had the perfect symbiotic equilibrium system at Dortmund and can he function at the same level here where we have a success rate of about 1 in 5 players.
We have had all these managers who move to Sevilla, shit trophies, and then move elsewhere never to win a trophy again. How much of Klopp's success is due to him and how much is it due to the background team? He will have access to more money here but can he replicate the same success with one of the worst background teams around? We know he is an outstanding coach but does he have the nous and the connections to recruit a new background team?
I'm not sure how good Zorc really is but he's been at Dortmund all his life and knows the club inside out. And in the years they worked together since 2008 they've done some very impressive signings, both in terms of fees paid but also they type of players they've added to the team. Their scouting system seems to be extremely good though.
Last season they failed with most of their bigger signings though, Immobile and Ramos.
I think if we went for Klopp or another manager that is used to work under DoF, the second equally important signing would be getting a quality DoF to work alongside him.
If we have a clear transfer strategy and a clear philosophy on what type of football we want to play and what type of players we need, we'll be in a much better position to succeed.
What is clear though is that we've pissed away so much money it hurts. Yet we still seem horribly loopsided and are missing several players in the first team to be a very good side.
Last season they failed with most of their bigger signings though, Immobile and Ramos.
I think if we went for Klopp or another manager that is used to work under DoF, the second equally important signing would be getting a quality DoF to work alongside him.
If we have a clear transfer strategy and a clear philosophy on what type of football we want to play and what type of players we need, we'll be in a much better position to succeed.
What is clear though is that we've pissed away so much money it hurts. Yet we still seem horribly loopsided and are missing several players in the first team to be a very good side.
Exclusive: Raphael Honigstein on Klopp, Rodgers and the style.
by Max
I was honoured to be invited to a BT Sport media event recently, where I asked a few questions to a few journalists. I questioned BT Sport German football expert Raphael Honigstein about Klopp, here’s what he had to say.
“I think Klopp would fit in at Liverpool in the sense that it’s a club full of emotions, a club that lives on the interaction between the crowd and the players. I think Klopp has learned to utilise that very well. He’s a passionate guy, he’s a motivator. He also has his tactical knowhow, but I think he thrives on the energy that he manages to create in the dressing room and inside the stadium.”
“What he would need though, and this goes for any club he goes to as well, is a Director of Football. Sometimes there’s a flawed view of managers, from an English perspective, as the guys who buy and sell players. He’s never bought or sold a player, apart from maybe one or two from Mainz that he picked up like Neven Subotić. But the DoF made all the signings. I don’t think he would want the responsibility of signing players. I think you need a great partnership between him and a guy who manages to bring players which fit into the system.”
“The way Liverpool have been buying and selling players has been… well, it’s hard for any coach to really understand what he’s doing. It’s especially hard for Rodgers who doesn’t seem to have a clear direction and changes his philosophy every six months. First it was possession, where they had to keep the ball at all costs and they got a hundred 0-0’s. Then the next year they played counter attacking football which nearly won them the league, and the year after that was when they crossed the fine line between being flexible and being all over the place.”
“I think perception is very important. As a player he needs to feel that the coach knows what he is doing, even if he changes 3/4 times a game like Guardiola. If it was Claudio Ranieri players would be looking at him and thinking that this is a joke, but because it’s Pep they appreciate it. With Rodgers, I’m not sure that’s the case. There’s a lot of change going on, maybe because he doesn’t really know what idea works. But yes, it would be hugely exciting to see Klopp come in.”
by Max
I was honoured to be invited to a BT Sport media event recently, where I asked a few questions to a few journalists. I questioned BT Sport German football expert Raphael Honigstein about Klopp, here’s what he had to say.
“I think Klopp would fit in at Liverpool in the sense that it’s a club full of emotions, a club that lives on the interaction between the crowd and the players. I think Klopp has learned to utilise that very well. He’s a passionate guy, he’s a motivator. He also has his tactical knowhow, but I think he thrives on the energy that he manages to create in the dressing room and inside the stadium.”
“What he would need though, and this goes for any club he goes to as well, is a Director of Football. Sometimes there’s a flawed view of managers, from an English perspective, as the guys who buy and sell players. He’s never bought or sold a player, apart from maybe one or two from Mainz that he picked up like Neven Subotić. But the DoF made all the signings. I don’t think he would want the responsibility of signing players. I think you need a great partnership between him and a guy who manages to bring players which fit into the system.”
“The way Liverpool have been buying and selling players has been… well, it’s hard for any coach to really understand what he’s doing. It’s especially hard for Rodgers who doesn’t seem to have a clear direction and changes his philosophy every six months. First it was possession, where they had to keep the ball at all costs and they got a hundred 0-0’s. Then the next year they played counter attacking football which nearly won them the league, and the year after that was when they crossed the fine line between being flexible and being all over the place.”
“I think perception is very important. As a player he needs to feel that the coach knows what he is doing, even if he changes 3/4 times a game like Guardiola. If it was Claudio Ranieri players would be looking at him and thinking that this is a joke, but because it’s Pep they appreciate it. With Rodgers, I’m not sure that’s the case. There’s a lot of change going on, maybe because he doesn’t really know what idea works. But yes, it would be hugely exciting to see Klopp come in.”
So basicly we can bring in both? Carlo as Dof and Klopp as manager....
That doesn't fit with the reports in the media last summer about Klopp wanting total control if he came to Liverpool. Maybe Klopp's realised that that attitude will guarantee FSG won't appoint him, and has decided to change tack (or at least say he's changed tack) in order to get the gig.
Or maybe the reports were the usual jorno made up shite?
Obv.quite possible, but the thing was that they came from Germany as well as this country, including from Honigstein, who's usually reliable and whom I reckon Klopp (or his agent) is using as a proxy to get their views out there.
I always thought Klopp would be a good fit here, because he is the kind of character who feeds off the crowd and the emotion and loves to be the underdog. I could see him fail in a more high-strung environment where he is not allowed to express himself and constantly has to make compromises with internal politics of the club. Honestly I would have much preferred if Rodgers was a success here and Klopp had stayed at Dortmund and made them into a powerhouse once again, but if that's not happening, then I guess having Klopp here is the next best option.
I can see the appeal of Ancelotti too and the argument about a steady hand on the tiller makes sense, especially in shorter term. If we are really in a position to choose between Klopp and Ancelotti (are we?), I think that's a luxury and great position to be in.
I can see the appeal of Ancelotti too and the argument about a steady hand on the tiller makes sense, especially in shorter term. If we are really in a position to choose between Klopp and Ancelotti (are we?), I think that's a luxury and great position to be in.
Good post as usual.
Interesting question about whether we really are in a position to choose between those two. I'm convinced Klopp wants the job - the likes of Honigstein are still clearly being fed material for publication by Klopp's agent. I don't know whether Ancelotti wants it or not yet, but he's always been respectful of the club in the past (and he's won everything in sight already) so I'm hopeful that the "project" of returning LFC to its former glory would appeal to him.
Interesting question about whether we really are in a position to choose between those two. I'm convinced Klopp wants the job - the likes of Honigstein are still clearly being fed material for publication by Klopp's agent. I don't know whether Ancelotti wants it or not yet, but he's always been respectful of the club in the past (and he's won everything in sight already) so I'm hopeful that the "project" of returning LFC to its former glory would appeal to him.
Liverpool have tried to get former Borussia Dortmund manager Jurgen Klopp to take over as first team manager on two separate occasions, according to The Guardian’s German football correspondent Raphael Honigstein.
Speaking on The Football Weekly Extra podcast, Honigstein said that Liverpool did not approach Klopp in the summer, despite rumours to the contrary, but they approached him twice since then. He then went on to say that, according to his sources, there is a plan in place for the parties to get together in November for more talks.
He said: There is a sense, after talking to one or two people, that maybe there is an opportunity to sit down and discuss things going forward, maybe in November. I’m not sure if that’s directly related to what Liverpool are doing this season or if it’s for next season, maybe it’s just exploratory talks.
Speaking on The Football Weekly Extra podcast, Honigstein said that Liverpool did not approach Klopp in the summer, despite rumours to the contrary, but they approached him twice since then. He then went on to say that, according to his sources, there is a plan in place for the parties to get together in November for more talks.
He said: There is a sense, after talking to one or two people, that maybe there is an opportunity to sit down and discuss things going forward, maybe in November. I’m not sure if that’s directly related to what Liverpool are doing this season or if it’s for next season, maybe it’s just exploratory talks.
They've approached him twice since the summer? I thought it still was the summer. I mean the transfer window only ended a couple of weeks ago. What could have provoked them to contact him prior to the West Ham game that wasn't already known about? He's implying we've tried to get him to take over twice in the past fortnight. Smells like bullshit to me.
Maybe Klopp made it abundantly clear in the past that he wouldn't be coming THIS summer so Rodgers was kept on but his backroom team were cleared to facilitate a potential mid season managerial change of heart from Klopp.
Perhaps we are now trying to meet with Klopp in hope he'll agree to come asap??
Did Ross alluded to Henry and Co using this tactic with the Red Sox??
Perhaps we are now trying to meet with Klopp in hope he'll agree to come asap??
Did Ross alluded to Henry and Co using this tactic with the Red Sox??
He didn't say they've approached him twice since the summer. He said they've approached him twice in the past.
This is the original article in German.
Not a single word about 'since summer' just the usual bullshit he spouts - now recycled.
http://www.sport1.de/internationale...in-ueber-die-vertrauenskrise-des-fc-liverpool
Not a single word about 'since summer' just the usual bullshit he spouts - now recycled.
http://www.sport1.de/internationale...in-ueber-die-vertrauenskrise-des-fc-liverpool
I think Ancelotti is the better manager, hes done it all, consistently in a number of different leagues but I dont think he would necessarily be a good fit for us. Leaving aside the issue of his massive wages, he is well known as a manager who burns through money pretty quickly and where ever he has done well he has been at an elite big spending club. Hes devoid of ego for a manager of his accomplishment and his talents are really in forming a team out of superstars and getting them to play in a cohesive way, thats no mean feat but its also not a problem hes likely to have at Liverpool. He seems to be almost impervious to the politics of football and hes highly regarded pretty much every where, hes a prestige manager who has seen and done it all.
Klopp on the other hand is almost too on the nose in terms of what we need, hes younger, cheaper, hungrier and has a point to prove after the way things ended at Dortmund. He seems to rage against the elite rather than aspiring to join them. I dont think he could succeed anywhere in the way some managers can but I think in the right situation he can be spectacular. Hes more of an ego but hes also more of a fighter than Ancelotti, a fighter is what this club needs, that sort of mentality is infectious. The Liverpool job is a huge challenge psychologically, it comes with a weight of expectation without the means to achieve those expectations. A historically poorly run club, a set of owners who dont seem to know what the want and a fanbase that is desperate for success. Thats a pressure cooker for managers and I dont think thats the right challenge for Ancelotti, I think hes been too successful for too long to want to roll up his sleeves and take on the basic task of rebuilding the club ground up. Klopp seems like the sort of manager who wouldnt have it any other way, hes a big personality and he wants a club that reflects that.
Klopp on the other hand is almost too on the nose in terms of what we need, hes younger, cheaper, hungrier and has a point to prove after the way things ended at Dortmund. He seems to rage against the elite rather than aspiring to join them. I dont think he could succeed anywhere in the way some managers can but I think in the right situation he can be spectacular. Hes more of an ego but hes also more of a fighter than Ancelotti, a fighter is what this club needs, that sort of mentality is infectious. The Liverpool job is a huge challenge psychologically, it comes with a weight of expectation without the means to achieve those expectations. A historically poorly run club, a set of owners who dont seem to know what the want and a fanbase that is desperate for success. Thats a pressure cooker for managers and I dont think thats the right challenge for Ancelotti, I think hes been too successful for too long to want to roll up his sleeves and take on the basic task of rebuilding the club ground up. Klopp seems like the sort of manager who wouldnt have it any other way, hes a big personality and he wants a club that reflects that.
It'd be nice to have a manager that burns through money quickly that could actually win stuff, most of our managers burn through money without actually doing an awful lot.
I'd be happy with either of those two, I suspect we won't get either of them though.
I'd be happy with either of those two, I suspect we won't get either of them though.
Good post with some interesting points, but some of it is wide of the mark and I definitely disagree with your overall view. More specifically:
1. It simply isn't true that Ancelotti's always been at a successful club when he's done well. He got Reggiana promoted to Serie A, he took Parma into the Champions League and even Milan were in the doldrums when he took over and built up the team we beat in Istanbul. 🙂
2. Forming a team of superstars doesn't suggest to me that a manager's teambuilding talents are limited to that. On the contrary, if he can do so in those circs.he should be even more likely to do so with players from the next level down who may not be full of themselves as the galacticos.
3. It's precisely because, as you rightly say, the Liverpool job is a huge challenge psychologically that I would prefer someone as stable as Ancelotti to someone as volatile as Klopp in the hot seat. I don't know whether Ancelotti will want the job but there's certainly no reason to assume he won't, particularly given his past favourable comments on the club.
Just to be clear, I'd be OK with Klopp getting the job. There'd be a risk involved, but there always is to some extent when a club changes managers. Where we differ is not so much over Klopp's qualities as over whether he'd be a better fit for LFC. I'm clear in my own mind that he would not.
- Status
