Birmingham bid 8M for Babel ?
- Thread starter Frogfish
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
Babel should be allowed to leave especially at the prices quoted. He shows neither the attitude or desire his natural talent needs. Occasional impact substitutions are not enough to retain him.
Is there any point selling him now if we dont get to spend the proceeds?
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38274.msg1028764#msg1028764 date=1262864435]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38274.msg1028709#msg1028709 date=1262858641]
Isn't Arda at Gala?
[/quote]
Swapsies.
Straight swop deals rarely ever happen though.
[/quote]
Indeed. It would be the ideal move though because it's likely only way Rafa would see any sort of return for an outgoing player.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38274.msg1028709#msg1028709 date=1262858641]
Isn't Arda at Gala?
[/quote]
Swapsies.
Straight swop deals rarely ever happen though.
[/quote]
Indeed. It would be the ideal move though because it's likely only way Rafa would see any sort of return for an outgoing player.
T
the_khl
Guest
Babel's just turned 23-years-old and I've still got this sneaky suspicion that he could pull a 'Thierry Henry'.
Wasn't he around the same age when he went to Arsenal? He never impressed at Juve (or at least only in glimpses as Babel has been doing for us) but look what then happened.
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
Wasn't he around the same age when he went to Arsenal? He never impressed at Juve (or at least only in glimpses as Babel has been doing for us) but look what then happened.
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028784#msg1028784 date=1262865838]
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
[/quote]
To do what? Sit on the bench?
I've tried to defend Babel throughout his time here and would love to see him do well but if Rafa doesn't trust in him after 2.5 seasons you have to accept it's over. There is no point blindly hoping he'll magically come good without actually playing.
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
[/quote]
To do what? Sit on the bench?
I've tried to defend Babel throughout his time here and would love to see him do well but if Rafa doesn't trust in him after 2.5 seasons you have to accept it's over. There is no point blindly hoping he'll magically come good without actually playing.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38274.msg1028830#msg1028830 date=1262868134]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028784#msg1028784 date=1262865838]
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
[/quote]
To do what? Sit on the bench?
I've tried to defend Babel throughout his time here and would love to see him do well but if Rafa doesn't trust in him after 2.5 seasons you have to accept it's over. There is no point blindly hoping he'll magically come good without actually playing.
[/quote]
For starters I'd start him againts Spurs.
Babel left - Benayoun right.
Kuyt desperately needs to be benched.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028784#msg1028784 date=1262865838]
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
[/quote]
To do what? Sit on the bench?
I've tried to defend Babel throughout his time here and would love to see him do well but if Rafa doesn't trust in him after 2.5 seasons you have to accept it's over. There is no point blindly hoping he'll magically come good without actually playing.
[/quote]
For starters I'd start him againts Spurs.
Babel left - Benayoun right.
Kuyt desperately needs to be benched.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38274.msg1028830#msg1028830 date=1262868134]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028784#msg1028784 date=1262865838]
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
[/quote]
To do what? Sit on the bench?
[/quote]
No, to turn into Thierry Henry by the sounds of it.
Tall order.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028784#msg1028784 date=1262865838]
Give the lad at least unitll Summer I say.
[/quote]
To do what? Sit on the bench?
[/quote]
No, to turn into Thierry Henry by the sounds of it.
Tall order.
He's horribly one footed, lazy, pulls out of tackles and constantly makes wrong decisions. Do people still believe he'll come good just because he's fast, has a powerful shot and has had a few good moments for us in the past (was the last one the winner against Utd, which was more than a year ago?)?
I think 9M would be a great deal for us, I doubt there's someone so daft that would pay 12M we allegedly want for him.
I think 9M would be a great deal for us, I doubt there's someone so daft that would pay 12M we allegedly want for him.
T
the_khl
Guest
All you Babel-haters, riddle me this;
Mention one player besides Babel who has scored goals for us like the one he bagged against Lyon this Season. The thing is whenever Gerrard's not firing on all cylendars I can't really think of anyone. That attribute alone should get him a few more games in the following weeks if you ask me.
-->
Ryan Babel V Lyon
PS I'm not his biggest fan and he's got some obvious flaws all I'm saying is that I still think he could turn into someone valuable for us.
Mention one player besides Babel who has scored goals for us like the one he bagged against Lyon this Season. The thing is whenever Gerrard's not firing on all cylendars I can't really think of anyone. That attribute alone should get him a few more games in the following weeks if you ask me.
-->
Ryan Babel V Lyon
PS I'm not his biggest fan and he's got some obvious flaws all I'm saying is that I still think he could turn into someone valuable for us.
Sorry, Kristian, but I'd call that a triumph of hope over experience.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028836#msg1028836 date=1262868331]
For starters I'd start him againts Spurs.
[/quote]
Again, it's all very well saying *you'd* start him against Spurs, but the reality is that he probably won't. And even if he does, he'll get benched for the next 5 games.
If Babel stays, how many starts do you think Rafa will give him? Not how many you'd give him, not how many he should get, not how many he could get if X or Y happens... how many starts do you honestly think Rafa will give him?
And then based on that answer please tell me what are the chances of him turning a corner at Anfield.
For starters I'd start him againts Spurs.
[/quote]
Again, it's all very well saying *you'd* start him against Spurs, but the reality is that he probably won't. And even if he does, he'll get benched for the next 5 games.
If Babel stays, how many starts do you think Rafa will give him? Not how many you'd give him, not how many he should get, not how many he could get if X or Y happens... how many starts do you honestly think Rafa will give him?
And then based on that answer please tell me what are the chances of him turning a corner at Anfield.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38274.msg1028877#msg1028877 date=1262870922]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028836#msg1028836 date=1262868331]
For starters I'd start him againts Spurs.
[/quote]
Again, it's all very well saying *you'd* start him against Spurs, but the reality is that he probably won't. And even if he does, he'll get benched for the next 5 games.
If Babel stays, how many starts do you think Rafa will give him? Not how many you'd give him, not how many he should get, not how many he could get if X or Y happens... how many starts do you honestly think Rafa will give him?
And then based on that answer please tell me what are the chances of him turning a corner at Anfield.
[/quote]
They probably are very slim.
And I can't really back my gut feeling up about him but I thought his cameos against Lyon and Citeh looked rather positive that's all. His took his goal well and looked very eager to prove a point against Citeh and then obviously tackled Gerrard and got injured.
I hope he starts come Spurs. I'll keep my fingers firmly crossed he's going to improve rapidly hence I'm not sure I'd cash in just yet especially not with Maxi coming in and Voronin, Degen and Dossena freeing cash as well.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38274.msg1028836#msg1028836 date=1262868331]
For starters I'd start him againts Spurs.
[/quote]
Again, it's all very well saying *you'd* start him against Spurs, but the reality is that he probably won't. And even if he does, he'll get benched for the next 5 games.
If Babel stays, how many starts do you think Rafa will give him? Not how many you'd give him, not how many he should get, not how many he could get if X or Y happens... how many starts do you honestly think Rafa will give him?
And then based on that answer please tell me what are the chances of him turning a corner at Anfield.
[/quote]
They probably are very slim.
And I can't really back my gut feeling up about him but I thought his cameos against Lyon and Citeh looked rather positive that's all. His took his goal well and looked very eager to prove a point against Citeh and then obviously tackled Gerrard and got injured.
I hope he starts come Spurs. I'll keep my fingers firmly crossed he's going to improve rapidly hence I'm not sure I'd cash in just yet especially not with Maxi coming in and Voronin, Degen and Dossena freeing cash as well.
Khl, your defence of Babel is admirable, it doesn't matter the quality of the goals, his general play is shit, he's one footed, shows little in the way of intelligence or even desire on the pitch, seems a bit brainless in general (videoing for twitter, while driving, etc), and despite the 'quality' of his goals, he's likely to make 15 nothing appearances in between each one.
He lacks the quality and brains to make it at a big club. He's proven that much. Pace and the occasional wicked goal every couple of months isn't what we paid near £10m for.
He lacks the quality and brains to make it at a big club. He's proven that much. Pace and the occasional wicked goal every couple of months isn't what we paid near £10m for.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38274.msg1028944#msg1028944 date=1262875844]
Khl, your defence of Babel is admirable, it doesn't matter the quality of the goals, his general play is shit, he's one footed, shows little in the way of intelligence or even desire on the pitch, seems a bit brainless in general (videoing for twitter, while driving, etc), and despite the 'quality' of his goals, he's likely to make 15 nothing appearances in between each one.
He lacks the quality and brains to make it at a big club. He's proven that much. Pace and the occasional wicked goal every couple of months isn't what we paid near £10m for.
[/quote]
Bang on the money Mark.
Khl, your defence of Babel is admirable, it doesn't matter the quality of the goals, his general play is shit, he's one footed, shows little in the way of intelligence or even desire on the pitch, seems a bit brainless in general (videoing for twitter, while driving, etc), and despite the 'quality' of his goals, he's likely to make 15 nothing appearances in between each one.
He lacks the quality and brains to make it at a big club. He's proven that much. Pace and the occasional wicked goal every couple of months isn't what we paid near £10m for.
[/quote]
Bang on the money Mark.
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=38274.msg1028959#msg1028959 date=1262876262]
I have been hopeful that Ryan will do well here (even though I havent explicitly come out to say it) but 10m is too good a price not to sell.
I only hope we can use the cash to buy another player BETTER than Ryan.
[/quote]
Surely. And the other £9.9M can go on clearing the debts.
I have been hopeful that Ryan will do well here (even though I havent explicitly come out to say it) but 10m is too good a price not to sell.
I only hope we can use the cash to buy another player BETTER than Ryan.
[/quote]
Surely. And the other £9.9M can go on clearing the debts.
I can't even be bothered to defend babel anymore. let's get the transfer money in asap, we need another 'failed to realise their potential' youngster to fill babel's shoes as soon as humanly possible.
I'm not defending Babel as such but it's a little harsh that we keep labelling him with the 'one footed' tag. One footed and yet basically for the entirety of his career here he played on the wing that didnt favour his supossed 'good' foot. Pity we never got a chance to see him have a run at RW but that is Dirk's position so it was a non starter to begin with. Shame really because I had such hopes for Babel when we signed him.
10 million is a great return for a player who cost 11million and hasn't developed much as a player during his time here.
10 million is a great return for a player who cost 11million and hasn't developed much as a player during his time here.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38274.msg1028980#msg1028980 date=1262877205]
I'm not defending Babel as such but it's a little harsh that we keep labelling him with the 'one footed' tag. One footed and yet basically for the entirety of his career here he played on the wing that didnt favour his supossed 'good' foot. Pity we never got a chance to see him have a run at RW but that is Dirk's position so it was a non starter to begin with. Shame really because I had such hopes for Babel when we signed him.
10 million is a great return for a player who cost 11million and hasn't developed much as a player during his time here.
[/quote]
He's always played in that position though... I guess the idea being that he cut inside and score goals.
I'm not defending Babel as such but it's a little harsh that we keep labelling him with the 'one footed' tag. One footed and yet basically for the entirety of his career here he played on the wing that didnt favour his supossed 'good' foot. Pity we never got a chance to see him have a run at RW but that is Dirk's position so it was a non starter to begin with. Shame really because I had such hopes for Babel when we signed him.
10 million is a great return for a player who cost 11million and hasn't developed much as a player during his time here.
[/quote]
He's always played in that position though... I guess the idea being that he cut inside and score goals.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38274.msg1028944#msg1028944 date=1262875844]
Khl, your defence of Babel is admirable, it doesn't matter the quality of the goals, his general play is shit, he's one footed, shows little in the way of intelligence or even desire on the pitch, seems a bit brainless in general (videoing for twitter, while driving, etc), and despite the 'quality' of his goals, he's likely to make 15 nothing appearances in between each one.
He lacks the quality and brains to make it at a big club. He's proven that much. Pace and the occasional wicked goal every couple of months isn't what we paid near £10m for.
[/quote]
Exactly Mark, it's not the quality of his goals that is the issue, because that matters not one jot.
It's about assists, it's about the quantity of goals, it's about working hard.
He was a punt, it didn't work and we seem to almost be able to get our money back, which fucking amazes me.
regards
Khl, your defence of Babel is admirable, it doesn't matter the quality of the goals, his general play is shit, he's one footed, shows little in the way of intelligence or even desire on the pitch, seems a bit brainless in general (videoing for twitter, while driving, etc), and despite the 'quality' of his goals, he's likely to make 15 nothing appearances in between each one.
He lacks the quality and brains to make it at a big club. He's proven that much. Pace and the occasional wicked goal every couple of months isn't what we paid near £10m for.
[/quote]
Exactly Mark, it's not the quality of his goals that is the issue, because that matters not one jot.
It's about assists, it's about the quantity of goals, it's about working hard.
He was a punt, it didn't work and we seem to almost be able to get our money back, which fucking amazes me.
regards
S
Squiggles
Guest
£10M's a decent price and I think we should sell, although I do quite like Babel and don't believe he's quite as bad as being made out. I think non-footballing issues, like his Rapping and Twittering have swayed opinions significantly - but I still understand the frustration with his performances. I, however, like him because he can actually beat players with pace and strength, as well as being able to strike a ball. Who else can do that? Gerrard, Torres, and that's pretty much it.
Preferably I'd like to see a replacement come in because I don't think Yossi is any good on the left at all, and Riera and Aurelio have spent most of the season injured. But if we save the funds till the summer so be it.
Preferably I'd like to see a replacement come in because I don't think Yossi is any good on the left at all, and Riera and Aurelio have spent most of the season injured. But if we save the funds till the summer so be it.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38274.msg1029008#msg1029008 date=1262880011]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38274.msg1028980#msg1028980 date=1262877205]
I'm not defending Babel as such but it's a little harsh that we keep labelling him with the 'one footed' tag. One footed and yet basically for the entirety of his career here he played on the wing that didnt favour his supossed 'good' foot. Pity we never got a chance to see him have a run at RW but that is Dirk's position so it was a non starter to begin with. Shame really because I had such hopes for Babel when we signed him.
10 million is a great return for a player who cost 11million and hasn't developed much as a player during his time here.
[/quote]
He's always played in that position though... I guess the idea being that he cut inside and score goals.
[/quote]
Yep, he played wide left of an attacking three for Ajax and Holland at times but never had to be as disciplined as he has to be with us. He never kept it a secret that he saw himself him a striker and not at LW also. I doubt he had to cover and defend as much in his previous role for Ajax?
He didn't seem comfortable at times as a left midfielder with us. Perhaps on the right he would have had the comfort of being on his favoured foot but with that position sorted Rafa saw him as an option on the left or surplus to requirements.
As we all know, Babel was poor in the majority of his games with us bar the odd flash of pace or wonderstrike. These flashes ignited new hope that the player inside him would emerge but its time to throw in the towel. I still think he will prove many wrong if he gets settled in a position in a club. It wont be here so lets hope Brum show us the money.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38274.msg1028980#msg1028980 date=1262877205]
I'm not defending Babel as such but it's a little harsh that we keep labelling him with the 'one footed' tag. One footed and yet basically for the entirety of his career here he played on the wing that didnt favour his supossed 'good' foot. Pity we never got a chance to see him have a run at RW but that is Dirk's position so it was a non starter to begin with. Shame really because I had such hopes for Babel when we signed him.
10 million is a great return for a player who cost 11million and hasn't developed much as a player during his time here.
[/quote]
He's always played in that position though... I guess the idea being that he cut inside and score goals.
[/quote]
Yep, he played wide left of an attacking three for Ajax and Holland at times but never had to be as disciplined as he has to be with us. He never kept it a secret that he saw himself him a striker and not at LW also. I doubt he had to cover and defend as much in his previous role for Ajax?
He didn't seem comfortable at times as a left midfielder with us. Perhaps on the right he would have had the comfort of being on his favoured foot but with that position sorted Rafa saw him as an option on the left or surplus to requirements.
As we all know, Babel was poor in the majority of his games with us bar the odd flash of pace or wonderstrike. These flashes ignited new hope that the player inside him would emerge but its time to throw in the towel. I still think he will prove many wrong if he gets settled in a position in a club. It wont be here so lets hope Brum show us the money.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38274.msg1029020#msg1029020 date=1262880782]
Preferably I'd like to see a replacement come in because I don't think Yossi is any good on the left at all, and Riera and Aurelio have spent most of the season injured. But if we save the funds till the summer so be it.
[/quote]
i'd rather we played a left back there like buchtmann. it'll save money and hopefully improve us defensively
Preferably I'd like to see a replacement come in because I don't think Yossi is any good on the left at all, and Riera and Aurelio have spent most of the season injured. But if we save the funds till the summer so be it.
[/quote]
i'd rather we played a left back there like buchtmann. it'll save money and hopefully improve us defensively
I'm stunned they upped their bid, since babel is woeful
i suppose we could hang on to him in case we need to record an fa cup final song
I personally think he was a very good talent who under the right management would have turned into a top quality player. You can talk about lacking workrate and attitude but that's part of what top managers coach into young players. Fergie's patience with Ronaldo despite his lack of end product early on his United career an illustration. However, Rafa's Liverpool was never going to be able to afford Ryan the same time and patience. (Unlike Ronaldo) he's hardly around a team crammed with top players already, which meant we required end product from him early on. Also, Rafa places so much emphasis on a rigid team unit, that having an unreliable maverick like Ryan would affect the balance of the side, particularly defensively.
I really would have liked to have seen Ryan given 40 games straight, even when he wasn't in form. Whilst short term, we may have suffered (by a lack of end product and workrate on his side), long term I think we would have gained a quality player.
..Or perhaps not. But I dare say in that time he'd have played a hell of a lot better than our other dutchman (who plays regardless of form/contribution).
You can be critical of Babel in attitude and workrate but I don't think anyone can truly say he had a fair crack of the whip. Moreover, in regards to the attitude and twitter (and whatnot), I remember one story from Ryan Giggs when he said Fergie was like a father to him early in his career. He'd make sure he wasn't partying, he'd discourage him from doing any media, hell he'd phone him up at 10pm to make sure he was in bed! A little OTT one could argue, but 10 PL medals later (still going strong), it looks great man-management of OGS part.
The long and short of it though is that Babel is now set in his ways. 10m is also a great price for someone who can barely make the bench. Rafa's lost far more money on other failures. I like Ryan as a player, and think he could still be a good contributor in a team. But that team won't be Liverpool, or at least not Rafa's Liverpool. We should take the money and move on.
I really would have liked to have seen Ryan given 40 games straight, even when he wasn't in form. Whilst short term, we may have suffered (by a lack of end product and workrate on his side), long term I think we would have gained a quality player.
..Or perhaps not. But I dare say in that time he'd have played a hell of a lot better than our other dutchman (who plays regardless of form/contribution).
You can be critical of Babel in attitude and workrate but I don't think anyone can truly say he had a fair crack of the whip. Moreover, in regards to the attitude and twitter (and whatnot), I remember one story from Ryan Giggs when he said Fergie was like a father to him early in his career. He'd make sure he wasn't partying, he'd discourage him from doing any media, hell he'd phone him up at 10pm to make sure he was in bed! A little OTT one could argue, but 10 PL medals later (still going strong), it looks great man-management of OGS part.
The long and short of it though is that Babel is now set in his ways. 10m is also a great price for someone who can barely make the bench. Rafa's lost far more money on other failures. I like Ryan as a player, and think he could still be a good contributor in a team. But that team won't be Liverpool, or at least not Rafa's Liverpool. We should take the money and move on.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
