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Benitez: I have no cash for a summer spree

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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39515.msg1077069#msg1077069 date=1269696302]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39515.msg1077057#msg1077057 date=1269692801]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39515.msg1077007#msg1077007 date=1269684389]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39515.msg1076996#msg1076996 date=1269679165]
if there is truly no money except was is generated with sales then I would sell riera and spend the money on joe cole's wages. I hate going for sick notes but we are running out of options.
[/quote]Hahahaha. In MARCH! 3 months before the transfer window opens. Before the league campaign ends. Before we know our final league position. Before we know wether there is any additional investment. Before we know rbs refinancing conditions. Before we know the position of the manager.
Were RUNNING OUT OF OPTIONS!!!!!!!!11111 SIGN JOE COLE!!!111///

hysterical much?
[/quote]

you should practice what you preach, you often post like we've aready finished 7th.
[/quote]What a crock of shit.
[/quote]

*ahem*

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39440.msg1074507#msg1074507 date=1269198354]
No we can't. The most we can now get is 72 points meaning spurs can afford to lose 2 and draw 1 of their last 7 and still be ahead of us.
It's done. It was done when we shit out to Wigan.
Anyone who thinks we will finish top 4 is a dick.


[/quote]
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=39515.msg1077068#msg1077068 date=1269696179]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39515.msg1077062#msg1077062 date=1269694333]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39515.msg1077059#msg1077059 date=1269694046]
This is Benitez absolving himself of blame.

I think everyone knows that without CL football we're about 20m worse off in revenues. Luckily this year the slack should be made up by the increased sponsorship and TV money. But if we do qualify for the CL we'll have a positive net spend. If we don't we won't.
[/quote]

No, he was just calling it as it is.
[/quote]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

While his point may be a valid one, it's actually unlikely to be that close to the mark - as what he is saying is "Every time I've qualified for the Champions League they haven't given me any extra money" though he has generally still been given a reasonable war chest - this time not qualifying for the Champions League might see him get *actually* nothing.

He's saying it like he hasn't had *any* money to spend, when in actual fact we've bought Torres at £20M, Mascher at £18Mish and smashed our transfer record for a defender three times, not to mention spunking £19M on Robbie Keane, nigh on £12M on a striker that he refuses to play as a winger, and £17M on a creative midfielder he doesn't trust to play when we're looking utterly devoid of creation. Now he's having a bitch (a justified bitch, but a bitch nonetheless) that when the team he's created doesn't get fourth place there's not gonna be a pot of gold waiting for him at the end of the rainbow.

Well, duh.

The blame for that has to lie predominantly at Rafa's feet if - as the article suggests - he knew beforehand that his budget was entirely dependant on sales. If he knew that was all he had, some should have been kept aside as either back up for Fernando, or for replacements for Kuyt or Babel so that they could play up front. Instead he's prioritised completely the wrong areas, found the team has come up short, hasn't had any options - or been unwilling to take them - to overcome these issues, and as a result we're going to be up the shitter.

It's not just a matter of making a mistake in the transfer market - everybody does that, Wenger, Ginsoak and Maureen no exception. Buying a player and getting it wrong is part-and-parcel of football, fair enough.

But forgetting to buy a proper back up for an injury prone player (and a key player at that) whilst at the same time spending £17.5M on a position that could be filled for £5/6M and spending another £17M on an injured player who can't play for months, and then isn't played when he is available?

Negligent.

Rafa needs to take a look at himself before he starts dragging everyone else's name through the mud - everyone can see what a pair of fuck ups the owners are, we don't need reminding of that - but it's a bit fucking rich to start acting like he's infallible or something
[/quote]

Bang on the errr, money.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=39515.msg1077068#msg1077068 date=1269696179]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39515.msg1077062#msg1077062 date=1269694333]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39515.msg1077059#msg1077059 date=1269694046]
This is Benitez absolving himself of blame.

I think everyone knows that without CL football we're about 20m worse off in revenues. Luckily this year the slack should be made up by the increased sponsorship and TV money. But if we do qualify for the CL we'll have a positive net spend. If we don't we won't.
[/quote]

No, he was just calling it as it is.
[/quote]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

While his point may be a valid one, it's actually unlikely to be that close to the mark - as what he is saying is "Every time I've qualified for the Champions League they haven't given me any extra money" though he has generally still been given a reasonable war chest - this time not qualifying for the Champions League might see him get *actually* nothing.

He's saying it like he hasn't had *any* money to spend, when in actual fact we've bought Torres at £20M, Mascher at £18Mish and smashed our transfer record for a defender three times, not to mention spunking £19M on Robbie Keane, nigh on £12M on a striker that he refuses to play as a winger, and £17M on a creative midfielder he doesn't trust to play when we're looking utterly devoid of creation. Now he's having a bitch (a justified bitch, but a bitch nonetheless) that when the team he's created doesn't get fourth place there's not gonna be a pot of gold waiting for him at the end of the rainbow.

Well, duh.

The blame for that has to lie predominantly at Rafa's feet if - as the article suggests - he knew beforehand that his budget was entirely dependant on sales. If he knew that was all he had, some should have been kept aside as either back up for Fernando, or for replacements for Kuyt or Babel so that they could play up front. Instead he's prioritised completely the wrong areas, found the team has come up short, hasn't had any options - or been unwilling to take them - to overcome these issues, and as a result we're going to be up the shitter.

It's not just a matter of making a mistake in the transfer market - everybody does that, Wenger, Ginsoak and Maureen no exception. Buying a player and getting it wrong is part-and-parcel of football, fair enough.

But forgetting to buy a proper back up for an injury prone player (and a key player at that) whilst at the same time spending £17.5M on a position that could be filled for £5/6M and spending another £17M on an injured player who can't play for months, and then isn't played when he is available?

Negligent.

Rafa needs to take a look at himself before he starts dragging everyone else's name through the mud - everyone can see what a pair of fuck ups the owners are, we don't need reminding of that - but it's a bit fucking rich to start acting like he's infallible or something
[/quote]

You make some good points, but if you think £20m is big money for a club of our stature, you're sadly mistaken. Also, why should we have to sell before we buy? Who else at the top does that? Glen Johnson's actual cost was in the region of £5/6m, when you deduct money owed from the Crouch deal. In any case Dossena was bought for that, look how that worked out.

My point is, a club of our size with our ambitions should be able to suck up things like the Aqua setback or if a signing fails to deliver.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=39515.msg1077075#msg1077075 date=1269697162]
And so should a manager of such purported 'genius'
[/quote]

Ill conceived comment and a waste of bandwidth.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39515.msg1077073#msg1077073 date=1269697095]
You make some good points, but if you think £20m is big money for a club of our stature, you're sadly mistaken. Also, why should we have to sell before we buy? Who else at the top does that? Glen Johnson's actual cost was in the region of £5/6m, when you deduct money owed from the Crouch deal. In any case Dossena was bought for that, look how that worked out.

My point is, a club of our size with our ambitions should be able to suck up things like the Aqua setback or if a signing fails to deliver.
[/quote]

I'm a Rafa supporter (still) but that is bollocks mate. He still cost £17m or whatever, but as they already owed us £9m, we only had to pay the balance. If I buy a car today for £20k and part exchange a £10k car of my own, the new one still cost £20k, not £10k, even though I only paid £10k for it. The rest was an asset accepted as part payment.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=39515.msg1077072#msg1077072 date=1269696909]
Neil, you sure learnt some funny counting at your school.

1, 2, 3, 4, 7 . . .
[/quote]

er, yes...
what does that even MEAN?
 
yes, rafa has fucked away some money, yes rafa could have bought better but for me the bottom line is when we finished 2nd instead of backing the manager to the hilt to turn 2nd place into champions our nett spend was in profit. a lot of people think that is fine and those people are entitled to that opinion, I on the other hand think that is BULLSHIT and if liverpool 'had' somehow won the league it would have being despite the owners not because of them.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39515.msg1077085#msg1077085 date=1269697907]
Andy said we won't finish 4th, which you've took to mean as he said we'll finish 7th (I think)
[/quote]

if we don't finish top 4 who cares were we finish? 5th, 6th, 7th? so what?

4th is 4th and 5th is nowhere. okay, that's not what bob said (ha ha ;D) but the sentiment is the same.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39515.msg1077089#msg1077089 date=1269698670]
"Sentitment"? Someone's boobed. 😉
[/quote]

it's gone tits up 😉
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39515.msg1077092#msg1077092 date=1269698847]
Come on neil, keep abreast of the times. 8)
[/quote]

I'm sorry I keep forgettin stuff, my mammary isn't what it was 😉
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39515.msg1077109#msg1077109 date=1269703593]

Excuses starting early this year. Hopefully Rafa will get a decent war chest this summer. As Juventus Manager.



[/quote]

I'm assured by a Juve season ticket-holder that he would, and I can't help wondering if that's behind what he's saying here, either as a preparation for leaving or as a last-minute attempt to persuade the owners to release a decent transfer kitty this summer.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39515.msg1077120#msg1077120 date=1269704853]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39515.msg1077109#msg1077109 date=1269703593]

Excuses starting early this year. Hopefully Rafa will get a decent war chest this summer. As Juventus Manager.



[/quote]

I'm assured by a Juve season ticket-holder that he would, and I can't help wondering if that's behind what he's saying here, either as a preparation for leaving or as a last-minute attempt to persuade the owners to release a decent transfer kitty this summer.
[/quote]

You better hope its not the latter. As soon as they give him 15mil, he's going to hand the lot over for Kenwyne Fucking Jones.

George/Tom, if you're reading, don't do it.
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39515.msg1077054#msg1077054 date=1269691997]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=39515.msg1077028#msg1077028 date=1269685994]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39515.msg1076993#msg1076993 date=1269678920]
"They [the owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks] told me before that it didn't make a big difference [if we don't qualify]. Every year that we have qualified for the Champions League it hasn't made a big difference so if we don't qualify this time I don't expect a big difference."
Click to expand...


Dead Man Walking.
[/quote]

Oh look, Terrier's going fishing again with more of his oh so clever "tongue in cheek" remarks.

Lets hope you get a bite eh.
[/quote]



Haha....fuck off you troll.


[/quote]

You'll have to do better than that Fatty.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39515.msg1077086#msg1077086 date=1269698205]
yes, rafa has fucked away some money, yes rafa could have bought better but for me the bottom line is when we finished 2nd instead of backing the manager to the hilt to turn 2nd place into champions our nett spend was in profit. a lot of people think that is fine and those people are entitled to that opinion, I on the other hand think that is BULLSHIT and if liverpool 'had' somehow won the league it would have being despite the owners not because of them.
[/quote]

Where was that money going to from Neil ?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39515.msg1077086#msg1077086 date=1269698205]
yes, rafa has fucked away some money, yes rafa could have bought better but for me the bottom line is when we finished 2nd instead of backing the manager to the hilt to turn 2nd place into champions our nett spend was in profit. a lot of people think that is fine and those people are entitled to that opinion, I on the other hand think that is BULLSHIT and if liverpool 'had' somehow won the league it would have being despite the owners not because of them.
[/quote]

based on the information available last summer, yes it was a bullshit thing to do not to give any money. but you should have made your point back then. because now taking the information since then in terms of rafa's management and team selections, in retrospect it was a fucking damned correct decision not giving captain stupid a single penny. so you really should stop trying to make the same obsolete point based on obsolete information.

think of it this way....there's gun A, and gun B. they're revolvers, A loaded with 5 bullets and B has just 1 bullet. The choice is down to dantes. I pick up gun A put it to your head and fire. Even after you survive, and dantes saved you from getting a bullet in the head you would dare to protest against his irrational decision. and not have the common decency to thank me? you should thank me. and you should thank the owners for their decision last summer
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39515.msg1077164#msg1077164 date=1269709412]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39515.msg1077086#msg1077086 date=1269698205]
yes, rafa has fucked away some money, yes rafa could have bought better but for me the bottom line is when we finished 2nd instead of backing the manager to the hilt to turn 2nd place into champions our nett spend was in profit. a lot of people think that is fine and those people are entitled to that opinion, I on the other hand think that is BULLSHIT and if liverpool 'had' somehow won the league it would have being despite the owners not because of them.
[/quote]

Where was that money going to from Neil ?
[/quote]

erm, from then keane proceeds and the balance of the alonso money?

this is like being on 'QI'

*waits for siren*
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39515.msg1077078#msg1077078 date=1269697365]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=39515.msg1077075#msg1077075 date=1269697162]
And so should a manager of such purported 'genius'
[/quote]

Ill conceived comment and a waste of bandwidth.
[/quote]

Please elaborate.

And then justify why the very same thing cannot be applied to your previous post.

You reckon £20M is not a lot of money for 'a club of our stature' and yet in the history of the league that has only been bested a grand total of nine times - SWP to the Chavs, Shrek, Dogbra , Essien, Veron to the Scum, Duckface, Shevchenko, Berbatov and Robinho - so four times by the Scum, five times by the Chavs, and once by Citeh.

That would seem to suggest it's still a fair bit of money that is only thrown around on occasion, and for the new owners that summer who - at the time had recouped about £22M from sales and spent about £44M - the accusation that they did not back the manager who was forced to sell in order to buy just doesn't ring true.

Of course, we all know it's gone downhill since then - but to answer your question "why should we have to sell before we buy? Who else at the top does that?" Firstly it could be argued that Rafa's revolving door policy whereby players are bought, found inadequate and shipped out at a loss will haven taken it's toll over the years, forcing our hand so that in order to buy we have to sell - however, let us look at this in a bit more detail.

To answer the second part you could look at Arsenal - in summer 2007, the year the Yanks took over Wenger sold Henry, Ljungberg and Aliadiere for a combined £21M ish and bought Sagna, Eduardo and Fabianski for about £17M, replacing two ageing players with two first teamers who came in and performed. Rafa sold Bellers, Djibs, Mark Gonzalez, Paletta and swapped Luis for Fernando, earning a combined £22M and bought Torres, Babel, Lucas, Yossi, Insua and Voronin for a combined £44M, replacing two first teamers with one worthy sure-starter, two sure-starters by default, and a couple of squaddies that regularly get played out of their best position.

In the January transfers the Gooners sold Diarra for £5.5M and bought nobody, we sold Momo for about £8M, and bought Skrtel and Mascher for a combined £25M ish. A good swap on our part.

Summer 08 the Gooners sold Hleb for £12M and bought Ramsey and Nasri for £16M. We sold JAR, Crouch, Guthrie and Carson for a combined £25.5M and bought Dossena, Riera, Keane, Ngog and Cavalieri for a combined £39M. Good for them, nothing less than disastrous for us.

Jan 09 the Gooners bought Arshavin for £10M. We sacked off Pennant for an undisclosed fee, joining Finnan and Le Tallec.

Summer 09 they flogged Adebayor for £25M and bought Vermaelen for £10M. We sold Xabi, Arbeloa, and Leto for a combined £36.5M and bought Magic, Aqua and Kyrgiakos for the same sum - the only time it can be truly said Rafa had to sell in order to buy. Meanwhile Wenger - the blind prune faced cunt - regularly turned a profit. Their respective records read:

Rafa - sold £92M, bought £144.5M
Wenger - sold £63.5M, bought £53M

They finished in those seasons:

Rafa - 4th, 2nd, and currently lying 6th 20 points behind the leaders.
Wenger - 3rd, 4th and currently lying 3rd 3 points behind the leaders.

Hopefully this will answer both points - actually the only season we've had to sell in order to buy was this one, whereas Wenger has been doing it and still remaning within spitting distance, and certainly within the top 4 whilst making a £10M profit. During that same time Rafa has made a loss of £52.5M, has a team playing like a bunch of strangers and needing several additions to fill in the 'missing pieces of the jigsaw'. Who else at the top does that? Wenger does, and does it successfully, Rafa doesn't, and is no longer at the top - not even in the top 4!

"My point is, a club of our size with our ambitions should be able to suck up things like the Aqua setback or if a signing fails to deliver."

And my point was that if rafa is such a genius then so should he - not just a pithy comment, but a perfectly valid and fair assessment I would say.

You reckon it's ill conceived and a waste of bandwidth - so justify this and give your reasons why - or were you simply resorting to insults because you can't really back up your argument?

I've backed up mine, do the same or stick it
 
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