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Arsenal Post match thread

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On balance, a point from a tough away game is a positive. But I can't help feeling disappointed - I really think we could have won this.

A number of us had pointed out in the pre-match thread that Arsenal can be taken if you're aggressive. They're brilliant when they get going - but are really soft, brittle pansies under pressure. I really think we had them on the ropes by the end of the first half - no idea why we decided to take our foot off the pedal in the second.

A few more points:

1. I'm not really sure there's been a huge tactical improvement - we're solid defensively now mostly thanks to the individual abilities of Clyne, Gomez and Milner - who've added pace, energy and discipline - a huge improvement on Johnson, Moreno and Gerrard. Skrtel and Lovren are more less the same defenders from the end of last season - prone to the odd brain fart, but looking much improved thanks to the better players around them.

2. Rodgers' selection of formation is still leaving me bewildered. He picked a defensive 4-2-3-1 against two smaller teams, and a 4-3-3 away to Arsenal. Except the 4-3-3 didn't translate into a pressing game at all. The instructions seemed to be to sit back - which is really perplexing. The 4-3-3 isn't a good formation for sitting back at all - there's only a single midfielder sitting back, and the wing-forwards are narrow - so can't really help the full-backs out. This is what happened time and again - Clyne and Gomez got no protection. If the gameplan was to sit back and defend, why not just go for a 4-2-3-1 where you could have had two midfielders sitting and have the wingers help out the full-backs more effectively?

3. I think we were quite lucky to have come out with a point given our gameplan. Arsenal opened us up thrice - first with the Ramsey goal, second with the Sanchez shot off the post, and the third with the Giroud chance. I don't think it was a shutout defensive performance (in the Chelsea mould) at all - we were lucky not to have conceded. This comes back to the formation part - if we wanted to shut them out, a 4-2-3-1 would have been much better.

4. Given that we did play a 4-3-3, I don't know why we didn't press at all. The game was split into three periods -
First 25 minutes - I was sure we would concede (we did in fact). There was no pressing at all from Can, Coutino or Firmino. Milner tried in isolation, but there's no point in one played doing it. Cazorla and Coquelin were getting all the time in the world to pick their passes.

Second 25 minutes - Calum Chambers time. The man single-handedly brought us back into the game, and as is typically Arsenal, they shit themselves under pressure.

Second half - This is what frustrates me. Arsenal were reeling under pressure by then - their CB partnership was looking dodgy, and their attacking 4, just like the soft cunts they are, had switched off. We should have fucking battered them in the first 25 mins of that second half. The game was there to be won.

Anyway, 7 points from 3 games is a great start, and the individual defending seems to have improved.

But Rodgers really needs to figure out what formation he wants us to play. Because right now, I think he's just experimenting. Worryingly, there's no fluidity to our attacking game at all right now - it's just give the ball to Coutinho.
 
On balance, a point from a tough away game is a positive. But I can't help feeling disappointed - I really think we could have won this.

A number of us had pointed out in the pre-match thread that Arsenal can be taken if you're aggressive. They're brilliant when they get going - but are really soft, brittle pansies under pressure. I really think we had them on the ropes by the end of the first half - no idea why we decided to take our foot off the pedal in the second.

A few more points:

1. I'm not really sure there's been a huge tactical improvement - we're solid defensively now mostly thanks to the individual abilities of Clyne, Gomez and Milner - who've added pace, energy and discipline - a huge improvement on Johnson, Moreno and Gerrard. Skrtel and Lovren are more less the same defenders from the end of last season - prone to the odd brain fart, but looking much improved thanks to the better players around them.

2. Rodgers' selection of formation is still leaving me bewildered. He picked a defensive 4-2-3-1 against two smaller teams, and a 4-3-3 away to Arsenal. Except the 4-3-3 didn't translate into a pressing game at all. The instructions seemed to be to sit back - which is really perplexing. The 4-3-3 isn't a good formation for sitting back at all - there's only a single midfielder sitting back, and the wing-forwards are narrow - so can't really help the full-backs out. This is what happened time and again - Clyne and Gomez got no protection. If the gameplan was to sit back and defend, why not just go for a 4-2-3-1 where you could have had two midfielders sitting and have the wingers help out the full-backs more effectively?

3. I think we were quite lucky to have come out with a point given our gameplan. Arsenal opened us up thrice - first with the Ramsey goal, second with the Sanchez shot off the post, and the third with the Giroud chance. I don't think it was a shutout defensive performance (in the Chelsea mould) at all - we were lucky not to have conceded. This comes back to the formation part - if we wanted to shut them out, a 4-2-3-1 would have been much better.

4. Given that we did play a 4-3-3, I don't know why we didn't press at all. The game was split into three periods -
First 25 minutes - I was sure we would concede (we did in fact). There was no pressing at all from Can, Coutino or Firmino. Milner tried in isolation, but there's no point in one played doing it. Cazorla and Coquelin were getting all the time in the world to pick their passes.

Second 25 minutes - Calum Chambers time. The man single-handedly brought us back into the game, and as is typically Arsenal, they shit themselves under pressure.

Second half - This is what frustrates me. Arsenal were reeling under pressure by then - their CB partnership was looking dodgy, and their attacking 4, just like the soft cunts they are, had switched off. We should have fucking battered them in the first 25 mins of that second half. The game was there to be won.

Anyway, 7 points from 3 games is a great start, and the individual defending seems to have improved.

But Rodgers really needs to figure out what formation he wants us to play. Because right now, I think he's just experimenting. Worryingly, there's no fluidity to our attacking game at all right now - it's just give the ball to Coutinho.
Summarised translation: "big improvement so far but I still can't bring myself to give Rodgers credit."
 
Pretty much, and if it was a defensive 433 in which we didn't press but sat back, I don't know what game I was watching in the first half.
 
Please folk, do not respond to the above ...

nothing_to_see_here.jpg
 
Yep. Its not like he hasn't already made a prize dickhead of himself across numerous threads. Where would the fun be in watching that *again*?
 
On balance, a point from a tough away game is a positive. But I can't help feeling disappointed - I really think we could have won this.

A number of us had pointed out in the pre-match thread that Arsenal can be taken if you're aggressive. They're brilliant when they get going - but are really soft, brittle pansies under pressure. I really think we had them on the ropes by the end of the first half - no idea why we decided to take our foot off the pedal in the second.

A few more points:

1. I'm not really sure there's been a huge tactical improvement - we're solid defensively now mostly thanks to the individual abilities of Clyne, Gomez and Milner - who've added pace, energy and discipline - a huge improvement on Johnson, Moreno and Gerrard. Skrtel and Lovren are more less the same defenders from the end of last season - prone to the odd brain fart, but looking much improved thanks to the better players around them.

2. Rodgers' selection of formation is still leaving me bewildered. He picked a defensive 4-2-3-1 against two smaller teams, and a 4-3-3 away to Arsenal. Except the 4-3-3 didn't translate into a pressing game at all. The instructions seemed to be to sit back - which is really perplexing. The 4-3-3 isn't a good formation for sitting back at all - there's only a single midfielder sitting back, and the wing-forwards are narrow - so can't really help the full-backs out. This is what happened time and again - Clyne and Gomez got no protection. If the gameplan was to sit back and defend, why not just go for a 4-2-3-1 where you could have had two midfielders sitting and have the wingers help out the full-backs more effectively?

3. I think we were quite lucky to have come out with a point given our gameplan. Arsenal opened us up thrice - first with the Ramsey goal, second with the Sanchez shot off the post, and the third with the Giroud chance. I don't think it was a shutout defensive performance (in the Chelsea mould) at all - we were lucky not to have conceded. This comes back to the formation part - if we wanted to shut them out, a 4-2-3-1 would have been much better.

4. Given that we did play a 4-3-3, I don't know why we didn't press at all. The game was split into three periods -
First 25 minutes - I was sure we would concede (we did in fact). There was no pressing at all from Can, Coutino or Firmino. Milner tried in isolation, but there's no point in one played doing it. Cazorla and Coquelin were getting all the time in the world to pick their passes.

Second 25 minutes - Calum Chambers time. The man single-handedly brought us back into the game, and as is typically Arsenal, they shit themselves under pressure.

Second half - This is what frustrates me. Arsenal were reeling under pressure by then - their CB partnership was looking dodgy, and their attacking 4, just like the soft cunts they are, had switched off. We should have fucking battered them in the first 25 mins of that second half. The game was there to be won.

Anyway, 7 points from 3 games is a great start, and the individual defending seems to have improved.

But Rodgers really needs to figure out what formation he wants us to play. Because right now, I think he's just experimenting. Worryingly, there's no fluidity to our attacking game at all right now - it's just give the ball to Coutinho.

That is not one of your better, more considered posts.

re. your :
1. An alternative way of translating that would be that the tactics were right but the personnel wrong ?
2. You are complaining about our performance with 433 at The Emirates ? Strange game to use to illustrate some point you're trying to make considering how well we played in both defence and attack.
3. How many teams go to Arsenal and don't give up at the very least 2-3 chances ? Even if you are Chelsea ? We have conceded less shots on target than any team in the PL over 3 games yet there are still complaints.
4. We didn't press at all ? Were you watching a re-run from last season by mistake ? You uncertainly weren't watching the 2015 version.
5. Attacking. You think it's just 'give the ball to Coutinho' ? Again I don't know which games you've been watching but there seems to be more than a touch of bias in your comments. Did you not notice Benteke ? Or Clyne ? Or Firmino, Can, Milner ? It's a bit like saying City 'just give the ball to Silva'. And that's coming from someone who is quite ambivalent towards Rodgers as our manager.
6. Nothing wrong with experimenting with 5-6 new first teamers. It's more important he get it right .. and it looks like he's coming close.
 
Summarised translation: "big improvement so far but I still can't bring myself to give Rodgers credit."
What a pointlessly snide attempt to brand me as an anti-Rodgers activist. At least look up some of my posting history before trying to do that.
 
I guess because after all the doubts about BR it's fair to give credit for a good start by his bunch of new players and his new coaches work?

I too think it's a little early to get excited but BR needed a good start and he's been able to get it, however it's been achieved. Hopefully it'll continue against the Hammers.
 
That is not one of your better, more considered posts.

re. your :
1. An alternative way of translating that would be that the tactics were right but the personnel wrong ?
2. You are complaining about our performance with 433 at The Emirates ? Strange game to use to illustrate some point you're trying to make considering how well we played in both defence and attack.
3. How many teams go to Arsenal and don't give up at the very least 2-3 chances ? Even if you are Chelsea ? We have conceded less shots on target than any team in the PL over 3 games yet there are still complaints.
4. We didn't press at all ? Were you watching a re-run from last season by mistake ? You uncertainly weren't watching the 2015 version.
5. Attacking. You think it's just 'give the ball to Coutinho' ? Again I don't know which games you've been watching but there seems to be more than a touch of bias in your comments. Did you not notice Benteke ? Or Clyne ? Or Firmino, Can, Milner ? It's a bit like saying City 'just give the ball to Silva'. And that's coming from someone who is quite ambivalent towards Rodgers as our manager.
6. Nothing wrong with experimenting with 5-6 new first teamers. It's more important he get it right .. and it looks like he's coming close.
Really? There seems to be some weird obsession on the site of late in drawing lines between posters as pro or anti-Rodgers. I'm not even remotely interested in that nonsense - so let's get that out of the way first.

If you're on board with that, happy to respond to your points.
 
Touch of bias wasn't referring to Rodgers (actually couldn't be in that point). More to do with 'just Coutinho".
 
Touch of bias wasn't referring to Rodgers (actually couldn't be in that point). More to do with 'just Coutinho".


Alright.

Re: your post:

1. Actually, no. His team selection IMO was spot on. So was the 4-3-3. I would've preferred the diamond (like I've said numerous times in the past), but the 4-3-3 is a close cousin, so it's ok. But we sat back for the majority of the game, which I think is weird with that formation.

2. Same as above.

3. Not really a complaint. Just an observation that we didn't shut them down, which is true.

4. We didn't press for the vast majority of the game - that's a fact. We certainly didn't press in the 4-2-3-1 we played against Stoke or Bournemouth either.

5. Our attacking play against Stoke and Bournemouth was utterly lackluster. This isn't some outrageous opinion - EVERYONE on the forum has been saying this! Bar the second period in the first half, this was entirely true against Arsenal as well. And our best attacking moments this season HAVE been moments of brilliance from Coutinho. So not sure what you're getting at?

6. You've misunderstood. I wasn't referring to experimenting with new players. I'm talking about experimenting with formations. We've had two 4-2-3-1 games, and one 4-3-3 game. I don't think he knows which formation is his strongest - which IMO is a major problem for the squad.
 
Alright.

Re: your post:

1. Actually, no. His team selection IMO was spot on. So was the 4-3-3. I would've preferred the diamond (like I've said numerous times in the past), but the 4-3-3 is a close cousin, so it's ok. But we sat back for the majority of the game, which I think is weird with that formation.

2. Same as above.

3. Not really a complaint. Just an observation that we didn't shut them down, which is true.

4. We didn't press for the vast majority of the game - that's a fact. We certainly didn't press in the 4-2-3-1 we played against Stoke or Bournemouth either.

5. Our attacking play against Stoke and Bournemouth was utterly lackluster. This isn't some outrageous opinion - EVERYONE on the forum has been saying this! Bar the second period in the first half, this was entirely true against Arsenal as well. And our best attacking moments this season HAVE been moments of brilliance from Coutinho. So not sure what you're getting at?

6. You've misunderstood. I wasn't referring to experimenting with new players. I'm talking about experimenting with formations. We've had two 4-2-3-1 games, and one 4-3-3 game. I don't think he knows which formation is his strongest - which IMO is a major problem for the squad.

With regard to 1., you seemed to be questioning the tactics in your original post - my point was that maybe the tactics weren't the issue but the personnel were. So it seems maybe we are both on-board with that.

We pressed damn well in the first half vs. Arsenal, we tired in the second but that's OK it will come. If you review even just the highlights you'll see how often we won the ball back by closing down on their defence/midfield and forcing errors. I simply don't know how you've missed it and can only suggest watching the highlights again which may get you to revise your opinion. I thought that Arsenal moved the ball much better in the 2nd, and we tired, both affecting the ability to press.

I wouldn't say our attacking against either Stoke or Bournemouth was lacklustre, and I don't think many people have been saying that, ineffective is the best word. In both those games we had more shots and more shots on target than the opposition.

I also don't see anything wrong with adjusting formations to suit the opposition and whether the game is home or away. Rafa did it and Rodgers likes to do it too so we're not going to see a settled formation, though I know some on here would prefer that, personally I'm OK with mixing it up.
 
I think most successful managers have a signature formation to which they stick - Rafa, Mourinho and Klopp use the 4-2-3-1 with almost unfailing regularity.

Wenger has always done a more attacking and fluid version of the 4-2-3-1.

Ferguson played two up top for most of his career.

Rodgers has always been an avowed 4-3-3 person as well I think. If that's what he wants, just stick with it or adjust to a diamond or christmas tree at best.
 
We pressed damn well in the first half vs. Arsenal, we tired in the second but that's OK it will come. If you review even just the highlights you'll see how often we won the ball back by closing down on their defence/midfield and forcing errors. I simply don't know how you've missed it and can only suggest watching the highlights again which may get you to revise your opinion. I thought that Arsenal moved the ball much better in the 2nd, and we tired, both affecting the ability to press.
Dwelt on this bit, and even saw the highlights again. I simply can't agree.

I'll just post some of the comments from the match thread in the first 25 mins.
They're already picking us apart, sigh.

we seem very deep

Good goal disallowed for them. We're getting fucked already.

Gomez is going to get torn apart here I fear.
Needs more protection from Can.

They're playing around us and will score eventually if we continue to invite this pressure

We are sat too deep and they have all the freedom to play around our goal.

Is that meant to be controlling space?

We are tucking in too much at right back and they are loving it. Really tough test there.

Such domination of that space :/

Giving them way too much space in dangerous areas.

69 % possession. ..

Yeh, we need to take the game to them, unfortunately we're doing the opposite.

Need to commit a man or two more when we attack, make this spell count. The box is 8 arsenal to 2 Liverpool every time we push up the pitch.

Run past benteke when he takes the ball out of the air you fucking dicks! Commit yourselves to an attack!

I don't think I'm being unfair dude.
 
There's virtually nothing regards pressing there though and I'd hardly consider the Match Thread (with it's passionate OTT comments) an accurate assessment of the match ! Virtually all of those comments are from Arsenal's periods of domination and a reaction to us sitting deep. Nothing at all re. the 30-35 mins before HT. Just look at that Gomez comment for starters 😉
 
To be fair , the only point you could prove while using an SCM match thread as evidence is that most people are idiots.
As two of those posts were mine, I definitely agree.

I did also add an addendum that we were playing great footy but I was just infuriated at the lack of clinical attacking & inability to fully commit men each time.

In hindsight we did do enough to win most games doing that, we were a tad unfortunate not to get at least one goal.
 
There's virtually nothing regards pressing there though and I'd hardly consider the Match Thread (with it's passionate OTT comments) an accurate assessment of the match ! Virtually all of those comments are from Arsenal's periods of domination and a reaction to us sitting deep. Nothing at all re. the 30-35 mins before HT. Just look at that Gomez comment for starters 😉

Is everyone on same page as to what' pressing' is?

I'm guessing there are many different interpretations
 
I've been quite impressed with what Moreno has had to offer off the bench.

He seems quite suited to a more advanced role & offers great pace off.

Quite enjoy his willingness to run direct with the ball.

Would love to see him given more chances off the bench.

He really surprised me with that burst of speed. He did something similar against Bournemouth. I never realised before just how fast he can be.
 
Dwelt on this bit, and even saw the highlights again. I simply can't agree.

I'll just post some of the comments from the match thread in the first 25 mins.

Yeh, we need to take the game to them, unfortunately we're doing the opposite.

I don't think I'm being unfair dude.

You need to ask permission before using my IP in future, thanks.
 
He really surprised me with that burst of speed. He did something similar against Bournemouth. I never realised before just how fast he can be.

It's superb, I wouldn't even be adverse to starting him in front of Gomez for some games, he's really effective there.
 
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