Are We Ruining Players?

[Mors]

I was looking at the first team XI the weekend, who were overall rubbish, and thought back to when we signed them, and I'm sure this was the state of play with them when we signed them:

Mignolet - Their player of the season when we signed him
Clyne - Exempt
Lovren - Southampton's best CB the season before and looked great
Sakho - PSG captain and solid player
Moreno - Massively raved about and one of the best attacking FB's in La Liga
Henderson - Their player of the season the year before we signed him
Can - Massively rated prospect and Bayern wanted him back
Allen - Well, the Welsh Xavi, their star player and playmaker
Milner - Although not one of their star players, they did not want to lose him and was a key cog
Lallana - Their player of the season when we signed him
Firmino - Exempt

Special mention to Benteke - Villa's player of the year, kept them up singlehandedly and scored 1 in 2


Where is it going wrong? On face value, surely nearly all of these players are good buys (although plenty made warnings about Benteke, Lallana etc) due to them being star players at their previous clubs? It's not like we're buying the dregs that nobody wants, I bet there were other big teams in for nearly all of those players we signed. And some of them have been poor under successive managers.

 

[Mamma Mia]

I don't think we are, I think we are just watch them much more closely and critically once they sign for us, and realise they aren't as good as we thought... it's especially apparent since the discussions happen when we are out of form.

 

[keniget]

Yes and no.

We are pretty bad at team-building so buy ill-suited players or the wrong combinations of players. They might be decent enough but not quite right for us and as such we don't really get the ROI we should on them.

It's also clear however, that a lot of the players we bought simply aren't good enough for the roles they've been given.

 

[Hansern]

Henderson has been very good for us. Dont think he should be in there. Can aswell has shown a lot of promise and will be a great player for us.
Clyne and Firmino aswell.

A lot of the other players have been introduced to a system that either isnt working as it should or that they arent good enough to be in.
Ming was very good for Sunderland but has regressed a lot while he has been here. Achterberg has to take a part of the blame there aswell.
He was not suited to play for us all together.

 

[davud graham]

Mignolet - Goalkeepers can usually look good for relegation threatened teams as they have a lot to do. Whoever scouted him obviously didn't look too closely at his concentration levels and complete lack of being able to command his box. I don't think Achterberg has helped him at all either.
Clyne - he's done alright but I don't think he's played as well as he did for Southampton. Pretty poor going forward.
Lovren - He started really badly for us but this season when called upon has done pretty well and wasn't at fault on Saturday. Might turn out ok.
Sakho - Had high hopes for this lad but recently has made mistake after mistake and I'm on the verge of being sick of him.
Moreno - The lad is too stupid to play for us and make terrible decisions both defensively and going forward.
Henderson - Did well last season but has been awful since coming back from injury. Maybe the heel is still troubling him.
Can - I don't know what this lad needs. You don't know from one minute to the next whether he's playing well or not. So inconsistent but has talent.
Allen - Seems to have a good spell of form every time we write him off. Does better when played further forward as he's too lightweight to play as the defensive midfielder.
Milner - So slow it's untrue. Would benefit more than most from having pace alongside him. It's only worth having a steady Eddie type player if you've got quality around him and we haven't.
Lallana - He's lightweight and keeps hold of the ball too much but the lad works hard and you can't say that about some of our other midfielders. Needs to score more goals though.
Firmino - Starting to look the part after struggling to adapt initially.
Benteke - I question his desire and will to win as well as much as anything. Doesn't scare anyone at the moment.

We've got so few players of undoubted quality and such lack of leadership throughout the squad that inconsistency should almost be expected. Until that's addressed then things aren't going to change for the better.

 

[RedStar]

I think there are a couple of things to it, mainly its that since FSG took over there has been no clear transfer strategy, we have ludicrously overspent on some very average players and then take a scattergun approach with others hoping to pick up a bargain just by weight of numbers. Alot of the players we buy who have performed elsewhere have done so in very defined roles, in some cases they have had the team built around them. We then put them in a different system and ask them to do a different job and cant understand why they dont look as good.

Allen is a fairly obvious example, hes no world beater but hes pretty much a known quantity, hes got a good football brain always makes himself available for a pass and recycles the ball really well, basically hes a possession player who will keep things ticking over and hes pretty good at it. Put him in a high tempo counter attacking side and his shortcomings quickly become obvious. Hes not quick or creative enough for one of the attacking roles and hes not physical enough for the defensive role. If we buy a player and put them in a position they are clearly not suited to its our fault, not theirs. The real mystery is why we keep buying players like Balotelli, Allen, Lambert, Benteke that we clearly have no use for, hats the point? We seem to just buy players because we have a quota of players to sign regardless of whether we actually need them.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Perhaps it is our lack of dressing room leaders.
Many of us have bemoaned the lack of more cunts in our team. I hate to say it but someone like Keane or Terry might be the catalyst that scares the other players into performing better, or conversely gives them a more fearless approach on the field. It definitely helps when you know that your lot are harder than the lot you are playing against. Right now we have a bunch of pansies playing for us.

 

[Modo]

I was looking at the first team XI the weekend, who were overall rubbish, and thought back to when we signed them, and I'm sure this was the state of play with them when we signed them:

Mignolet - Their player of the season when we signed him
Clyne - Exempt
Lovren - Southampton's best CB the season before and looked great
Sakho - PSG captain and solid player
Moreno - Massively raved about and one of the best attacking FB's in La Liga
Henderson - Their player of the season the year before we signed him
Can - Massively rated prospect and Bayern wanted him back
Allen - Well, the Welsh Xavi, their star player and playmaker
Milner - Although not one of their star players, they did not want to lose him and was a key cog
Lallana - Their player of the season when we signed him
Firmino - Exempt

Special mention to Benteke - Villa's player of the year, kept them up singlehandedly and scored 1 in 2


Where is it going wrong? On face value, surely nearly all of these players are good buys (although plenty made warnings about Benteke, Lallana etc) due to them being star players at their previous clubs? It's not like we're buying the dregs that nobody wants, I bet there were other big teams in for nearly all of those players we signed. And some of them have been poor under successive managers.

Interesting post, but the answer is no, we didn't ruin them they were poor to average when we bought them.
Sometimes it's just easy to see if a player is good enough by looking at the demand. Do many clubs want him? No, well then there's warning signs. Many of the players you listed weren't wanted by anyone significant but we thought we were making some kind of grand coup.

But the real answer is basically poor scouting like many others here have mentioned before.
We bought the wrong players for our type of style and some just couldn't raise their level to what was expected of them.

Mignolet - I wasn't too sure about him. He did look good when we played them but that's about it. Better than Reina? Hell no.

Clyne - Been one of our most consistent players.

Lovren - I thought that he'd be a good signing, didn't like the price tag though.

Sakho - Had no real problem with the signing until I saw him play. Upgrade on Agger? No.

Moreno - Thought there was potential, due to his tenacity and speed. Just not good enough defensively. Poor decisions poor positioning.
Henderson - This is a tough one. Thought he was massively overrated from the start. Still do to some degree. But he has become better. We still need more from him though.

Can - Heard good things from some German friends. Still think he has potential.

Allen - He's just not good enough.

Milner - Think he's a decent signing.

Lallana - It's been done to death

Firmino - Need more from him.

 

[kingjulian]

The above answer is correct. The transfer committe places a weightage on players willing to come to us. That much is certain.

But they seem to be incapable of weeding out pretenders who only seem very keen to join us because no other decent club would buy them.

 

[jexykrodic]

I don't think you can ruin quality players, you can reduce their effectiveness by playing them out of position or giving them too many responsibilities perhaps, but I think the major effect is psychological.

I said some time ago, if you aren't boosted by Klopp then perhaps you need to move on. I've no doubt Klopp is using this period to decide who he can and can't bring with him.

Klopp's point about turning doubters to believers is entirely apt. I expect him to achieve this in due course.

 

[LarryHagman]

Our penchant for stealing the best players from teams below us in the hope that it improves us has had some moderate success in the past when those players were combined with some genuine World-class talent. We don’t have any World-class talent right now so we’re a team made up of scraps and also-rans. We’ve been a 1, 2 or 3 man team for ages; now we’re effectively a 0 man team, mid-table standard players in a mid-table placed team.
We simply aren’t buying players that are good enough for the aspirations that we have; either because we can’t afford them or they wouldn’t come anyway. One of those two things needs to change and I think it will probably have to be our aspirations.
We’ve taken all of Southampton’s best players and, realistically, they’re still as good as us. Because, being a good Southampton player is not the same as being a good Liverpool player; totally different pressure, attitude, expectation (rightly or wrongly), rivalries, intensity … you name it.
At least we don’t have to worry about someone cherry-picking our best players next summer. I’d listen to a decent offer for anyone in our squad. I’d listen to indecent offers for a few of them.

 

[Windom Earle]

Yes and no.

We are pretty bad at team-building so buy ill-suited players or the wrong combinations of players. They might be decent enough but not quite right for us and as such we don't really get the ROI we should on them.

It's also clear however, that a lot of the players we bought simply aren't good enough for the roles they've been given.

Correct. Rarely does a signing seem to be made with a view to how they'll fit into the team and style of play. That's compounded when the player isn't that good to begin with.