Poll 6CM Voting Poll
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I'm pretty sure it's the twattishness, actually.
If inverted snobbery is hating snobs then I'm guilty and loving it.
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=40111.msg1102318#msg1102318 date=1273443629]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=40111.msg1102314#msg1102314 date=1273442048]
What cuntsore wums have voted BNP in this poll?
[/quote]
i'd like to shake* their hand**
* rip off
** face
[/quote]
Ill hold them it will be an old school beating.
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=40111.msg1102314#msg1102314 date=1273442048]
What cuntsore wums have voted BNP in this poll?
[/quote]
i'd like to shake* their hand**
* rip off
** face
[/quote]
Ill hold them it will be an old school beating.
[quote author=themn link=topic=40111.msg1100092#msg1100092 date=1273140250]
*waits for BNP to get a vote*
[/quote]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=40111.msg1102314#msg1102314 date=1273442048]
What cuntsore wums have voted BNP in this poll?
[/quote]
It was inevitable.
*waits for BNP to get a vote*
[/quote]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=40111.msg1102314#msg1102314 date=1273442048]
What cuntsore wums have voted BNP in this poll?
[/quote]
It was inevitable.
Harrow
Innemidable
Innemidable
[quote author=vantage link=topic=40111.msg1101502#msg1101502 date=1273328506]
I have to say, as an interested outsider' in all of this, I am staggered that Cameron didn't get in. He was aimimg at the lamest of lame duck Prime Ministers for years and still he couldn't get a working majority.
I don't dislike Cameron, I merely think his persona and accent make him unelectable anywhere North of Watford Gap. It seems that his party haven't learned. Hague, however whould have garnered a lot more supprt oop North.
[/quote]
what and Thatcher did not sound posh and very southern England?
she won three times with that voice, plus Major was not exactly Jimmy Nail was he.
edit **woops forgot her third victory
I have to say, as an interested outsider' in all of this, I am staggered that Cameron didn't get in. He was aimimg at the lamest of lame duck Prime Ministers for years and still he couldn't get a working majority.
I don't dislike Cameron, I merely think his persona and accent make him unelectable anywhere North of Watford Gap. It seems that his party haven't learned. Hague, however whould have garnered a lot more supprt oop North.
[/quote]
what and Thatcher did not sound posh and very southern England?
she won three times with that voice, plus Major was not exactly Jimmy Nail was he.
edit **woops forgot her third victory
There is some merit in what vantage says though.
Cameron is from a very posh background. I don't personally believe it matters but it clearly is an issue for some.
Thatch might have had a posh accent but she was not from a well-off background, and certainly not an aristocratic one! Same with Major, who was from a working class background, which I think helped in increasing his own personal popularity (despite the fact that his government ultimately failed I think a lot of people liked the man himself)
Cameron is from a very posh background. I don't personally believe it matters but it clearly is an issue for some.
Thatch might have had a posh accent but she was not from a well-off background, and certainly not an aristocratic one! Same with Major, who was from a working class background, which I think helped in increasing his own personal popularity (despite the fact that his government ultimately failed I think a lot of people liked the man himself)
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1102429#msg1102429 date=1273485776]
There is some merit in what vantage says though.
Cameron is from a very posh background. I don't personally believe it matters but it clearly is an issue for some.
Thatch might have had a posh accent but she was not from a well-off background, and certainly not an aristocratic one! Same with Major, who was from a working class background, which I think helped in increasing his own personal popularity (despite the fact that his government ultimately failed I think a lot of people liked the man himself)
[/quote]
true Rich.
Best thing ever about Major was the time he used his soapbox and loud speaker, he just stood there getting slated defending himslef. That won him the election IMO, he was class at that.
There is some merit in what vantage says though.
Cameron is from a very posh background. I don't personally believe it matters but it clearly is an issue for some.
Thatch might have had a posh accent but she was not from a well-off background, and certainly not an aristocratic one! Same with Major, who was from a working class background, which I think helped in increasing his own personal popularity (despite the fact that his government ultimately failed I think a lot of people liked the man himself)
[/quote]
true Rich.
Best thing ever about Major was the time he used his soapbox and loud speaker, he just stood there getting slated defending himslef. That won him the election IMO, he was class at that.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1102429#msg1102429 date=1273485776]
There is some merit in what vantage says though.
Cameron is from a very posh background. I don't personally believe it matters but it clearly is an issue for some.
Thatch might have had a posh accent but she was not from a well-off background, and certainly not an aristocratic one! Same with Major, who was from a working class background, which I think helped in increasing his own personal popularity (despite the fact that his government ultimately failed I think a lot of people liked the man himself)
[/quote]
Plus that was 30 years ago Fox. Thanks largely to Blair & Clinton elections are now largely contests to see who has the right catchphrases and grins, not the right policies. Maggie would never have got elected if she was starting out now.
There is some merit in what vantage says though.
Cameron is from a very posh background. I don't personally believe it matters but it clearly is an issue for some.
Thatch might have had a posh accent but she was not from a well-off background, and certainly not an aristocratic one! Same with Major, who was from a working class background, which I think helped in increasing his own personal popularity (despite the fact that his government ultimately failed I think a lot of people liked the man himself)
[/quote]
Plus that was 30 years ago Fox. Thanks largely to Blair & Clinton elections are now largely contests to see who has the right catchphrases and grins, not the right policies. Maggie would never have got elected if she was starting out now.
I occurred to me while driving around this morning, that the Tories have more in common with the Labour Party than they do with the Lib Dems. For example, they both wanted to continue with the next generation of the Trident nuclear deterrent, they are both more euro-sceptic than the Lib Dems, and neither is that keen on proportional representation, although Mr. Brown did sneak something on PR through Parliament just before the election, obviously in case of a hung Parliament.
Lab/Con coalition anybody? But Cameron shouldn't let Gordon be Chancellor of the Exchequer!!
🙂
Lab/Con coalition anybody? But Cameron shouldn't let Gordon be Chancellor of the Exchequer!!
🙂
Is Cameron any posher than Blair?
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1102511#msg1102511 date=1273498860]
I occurred to me while driving around this morning, that the Tories have more in common with the Labour Party than they do with the Lib Dems. For example, they both wanted to continue with the next generation of the Trident nuclear deterrent, they are both more euro-sceptic than the Lib Dems, and neither is that keen on proportional representation, although Mr. Brown did sneak something on PR through Parliament just before the election, obviously in case of a hung Parliament.
Lab/Con coalition anybody? But Cameron shouldn't let Gordon be Chancellor of the Exchequer!!
🙂
[/quote]
Haha. Would be interesting to see if that ever happened. What would Lefty's reaction be to that??!!
In all seriousness I wonder what Gordon will actually do when he is finally forced to stop being PM? Try to stay on as Party leader? Join a new leader's shadow cabinet? Sit on the backbenches brooding and sulking for the next 4 years (or even the next 20 years a la Ted Heath?)? Or just do a Blair and resign from being an MP?
I occurred to me while driving around this morning, that the Tories have more in common with the Labour Party than they do with the Lib Dems. For example, they both wanted to continue with the next generation of the Trident nuclear deterrent, they are both more euro-sceptic than the Lib Dems, and neither is that keen on proportional representation, although Mr. Brown did sneak something on PR through Parliament just before the election, obviously in case of a hung Parliament.
Lab/Con coalition anybody? But Cameron shouldn't let Gordon be Chancellor of the Exchequer!!
🙂
[/quote]
Haha. Would be interesting to see if that ever happened. What would Lefty's reaction be to that??!!
In all seriousness I wonder what Gordon will actually do when he is finally forced to stop being PM? Try to stay on as Party leader? Join a new leader's shadow cabinet? Sit on the backbenches brooding and sulking for the next 4 years (or even the next 20 years a la Ted Heath?)? Or just do a Blair and resign from being an MP?
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40111.msg1102516#msg1102516 date=1273500089]
Is Cameron any posher than Blair?
[/quote]
Yes he is. Blair is posh and went to public school but his ancestors aren't as posh as Cameron's.
Harriet Harman on the other hand is actually related to David Cameron
Is Cameron any posher than Blair?
[/quote]
Yes he is. Blair is posh and went to public school but his ancestors aren't as posh as Cameron's.
Harriet Harman on the other hand is actually related to David Cameron
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
Yet in most other countries they have PR, which we are told is more democratic, but always results in a coalition government and the resultant watering-down of policies that people voted on.
I don't agree with your scenario if there is another election. Labour just wouldn't be able to promise tax reductions or increased spending on public services, because it would be quite obvious that the economy wouldn't stand it.
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
Yet in most other countries they have PR, which we are told is more democratic, but always results in a coalition government and the resultant watering-down of policies that people voted on.
I don't agree with your scenario if there is another election. Labour just wouldn't be able to promise tax reductions or increased spending on public services, because it would be quite obvious that the economy wouldn't stand it.
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
More like 16 seats when you take out the 5 Sinn Fein seats (which they don't take so it doesn't count), the speaker's seat and the one they will probably win in Thirsk and Malton
A contingency plan which I wonder if the Tories have explored at all would be to talk with the DUP (8 seats) and making up the rest by trying to find individuals from other parties who might think about crossing the floor!
I don't know about another election. As things stand Labour now need a 5% swing to retake power with an overall majority. With the in-fighting that is on hold right now but always happens with a party leaves govt that's a big thing to achieve.
The Tories were a whisker away from an overall majority and some strategic popular policy announcements alongside a bit of blaming the last govt could see them through
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
More like 16 seats when you take out the 5 Sinn Fein seats (which they don't take so it doesn't count), the speaker's seat and the one they will probably win in Thirsk and Malton
A contingency plan which I wonder if the Tories have explored at all would be to talk with the DUP (8 seats) and making up the rest by trying to find individuals from other parties who might think about crossing the floor!
I don't know about another election. As things stand Labour now need a 5% swing to retake power with an overall majority. With the in-fighting that is on hold right now but always happens with a party leaves govt that's a big thing to achieve.
The Tories were a whisker away from an overall majority and some strategic popular policy announcements alongside a bit of blaming the last govt could see them through
There's also the possibility that the voters' reaction would be "They haven't really had a chance yet" and that they'd get at least a working majority on the back of that.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1102527#msg1102527 date=1273500825]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
More like 16 seats when you take out the 5 Sinn Fein seats (which they don't take so it doesn't count), the speaker's seat and the one they will probably win in Thirsk and Malton
A contingency plan which I wonder if the Tories have explored at all would be to talk with the DUP (8 seats) and making up the rest by trying to find individuals from other parties who might think about crossing the floor!
I don't know about another election. As things stand Labour now need a 5% swing to retake power with an overall majority. With the in-fighting that is on hold right now but always happens with a party leaves govt that's a big thing to achieve.
The Tories were a whisker away from an overall majority and some strategic popular policy announcements alongside a bit of blaming the last govt could see them through
[/quote]
I did some reading on the 1974 election the other day. Labour and Tories were separated by
only 200,000 votes. Apparently the Tories tried to make a deal with the liberals as is happening now but failed due to the Liberals demanding major electoral reform, sounds familiar.
Heath then resigned as he could not agree to the liberals terms.
Labours Wilson then took charge as PM until another election a few months later.
Wilson won the next election with a small majority of 3. Apparently the Ulster Unionists ruined the Tories chance after refusing to accept of the Tory whip.
Interesting stuff, apologies for the folks that knew all this already. i am becoming a political nerd lately, wife thinks it is all boring as fuck
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
More like 16 seats when you take out the 5 Sinn Fein seats (which they don't take so it doesn't count), the speaker's seat and the one they will probably win in Thirsk and Malton
A contingency plan which I wonder if the Tories have explored at all would be to talk with the DUP (8 seats) and making up the rest by trying to find individuals from other parties who might think about crossing the floor!
I don't know about another election. As things stand Labour now need a 5% swing to retake power with an overall majority. With the in-fighting that is on hold right now but always happens with a party leaves govt that's a big thing to achieve.
The Tories were a whisker away from an overall majority and some strategic popular policy announcements alongside a bit of blaming the last govt could see them through
[/quote]
I did some reading on the 1974 election the other day. Labour and Tories were separated by
only 200,000 votes. Apparently the Tories tried to make a deal with the liberals as is happening now but failed due to the Liberals demanding major electoral reform, sounds familiar.
Heath then resigned as he could not agree to the liberals terms.
Labours Wilson then took charge as PM until another election a few months later.
Wilson won the next election with a small majority of 3. Apparently the Ulster Unionists ruined the Tories chance after refusing to accept of the Tory whip.
Interesting stuff, apologies for the folks that knew all this already. i am becoming a political nerd lately, wife thinks it is all boring as fuck
With great respect to Mrs.Fox, it's because other people do take an interest that she has that luxury.
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102540#msg1102540 date=1273502613]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1102527#msg1102527 date=1273500825]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
More like 16 seats when you take out the 5 Sinn Fein seats (which they don't take so it doesn't count), the speaker's seat and the one they will probably win in Thirsk and Malton
A contingency plan which I wonder if the Tories have explored at all would be to talk with the DUP (8 seats) and making up the rest by trying to find individuals from other parties who might think about crossing the floor!
I don't know about another election. As things stand Labour now need a 5% swing to retake power with an overall majority. With the in-fighting that is on hold right now but always happens with a party leaves govt that's a big thing to achieve.
The Tories were a whisker away from an overall majority and some strategic popular policy announcements alongside a bit of blaming the last govt could see them through
[/quote]
I did some reading on the 1974 election the other day. Labour and Tories were separated by
only 200,000 votes. Apparently the Tories tried to make a deal with the liberals as is happening now but failed due to the Liberals demanding major electoral reform, sounds familiar.
Heath then resigned as he could not agree to the liberals terms.
Labours Wilson then took charge as PM until another election a few months later.
Wilson won the next election with a small majority of 3. Apparently the Ulster Unionists ruined the Tories chance after refusing to accept of the Tory whip.
Interesting stuff, apologies for the folks that knew all this already. i am becoming a political nerd lately, wife thinks it is all boring as fuck
[/quote]
I doubt the old monster Ted Heath was really one for negotiation and compromise though to be honest.
We are talking about a man who, as I referred to earlier, sulked his way through nearly 30 years in the Commons after he was ousted as leader, always sitting in the same seat on the front bench (across the steps, not in the cabinet obviously) because he refused to accept that 'that woman' had beaten him
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1102527#msg1102527 date=1273500825]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
More like 16 seats when you take out the 5 Sinn Fein seats (which they don't take so it doesn't count), the speaker's seat and the one they will probably win in Thirsk and Malton
A contingency plan which I wonder if the Tories have explored at all would be to talk with the DUP (8 seats) and making up the rest by trying to find individuals from other parties who might think about crossing the floor!
I don't know about another election. As things stand Labour now need a 5% swing to retake power with an overall majority. With the in-fighting that is on hold right now but always happens with a party leaves govt that's a big thing to achieve.
The Tories were a whisker away from an overall majority and some strategic popular policy announcements alongside a bit of blaming the last govt could see them through
[/quote]
I did some reading on the 1974 election the other day. Labour and Tories were separated by
only 200,000 votes. Apparently the Tories tried to make a deal with the liberals as is happening now but failed due to the Liberals demanding major electoral reform, sounds familiar.
Heath then resigned as he could not agree to the liberals terms.
Labours Wilson then took charge as PM until another election a few months later.
Wilson won the next election with a small majority of 3. Apparently the Ulster Unionists ruined the Tories chance after refusing to accept of the Tory whip.
Interesting stuff, apologies for the folks that knew all this already. i am becoming a political nerd lately, wife thinks it is all boring as fuck
[/quote]
I doubt the old monster Ted Heath was really one for negotiation and compromise though to be honest.
We are talking about a man who, as I referred to earlier, sulked his way through nearly 30 years in the Commons after he was ousted as leader, always sitting in the same seat on the front bench (across the steps, not in the cabinet obviously) because he refused to accept that 'that woman' had beaten him
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1102523#msg1102523 date=1273500513]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
Yet in most other countries they have PR, which we are told is more democratic, but always results in a coalition government and the resultant watering-down of policies that people voted on.
I don't agree with your scenario if there is another election. Labour just wouldn't be able to promise tax reductions or increased spending on public services, because it would be quite obvious that the economy wouldn't stand it.
[/quote]
A democracy should surely give equal voice to everyone. If a party doesn't gain a majority, it's because not enough people think it deserves one. In which case a coalition government best represents the feelings of the electorate. All this scare-mongering is the talk of party leaders who don't want to compromise their agendas. Well, it's tough shit, not enough people agree with their agenda, so they'll have to compromise. Communication and discussion should be what politics is about.
Besides, there are plenty of countries who function perfectly well under some form of PR and/or coalition governments. Just because it's not the norm does not mean it's not a viable option. Continuing with a clearly flawed system just out of some irrational fear of the unknown is not operating in the 'national interest'. Particularly when the current system renders obsolete the votes of a large portion of the people they claim to represent.
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1102520#msg1102520 date=1273500345]
sounds like a deal is on according to Sky. It does pain me that some of the Tory policies I voted on will not happen now just because the system says they were 19 seats short.
If we have another election this year or next year labour will win it easily. New leader and the easiest way of slagging the Tories who would have by then hiked taxes and reduced spending on schools, hospitals ETC.
Cameron will have a very short time as PM IMO
[/quote]
Yet in most other countries they have PR, which we are told is more democratic, but always results in a coalition government and the resultant watering-down of policies that people voted on.
I don't agree with your scenario if there is another election. Labour just wouldn't be able to promise tax reductions or increased spending on public services, because it would be quite obvious that the economy wouldn't stand it.
[/quote]
A democracy should surely give equal voice to everyone. If a party doesn't gain a majority, it's because not enough people think it deserves one. In which case a coalition government best represents the feelings of the electorate. All this scare-mongering is the talk of party leaders who don't want to compromise their agendas. Well, it's tough shit, not enough people agree with their agenda, so they'll have to compromise. Communication and discussion should be what politics is about.
Besides, there are plenty of countries who function perfectly well under some form of PR and/or coalition governments. Just because it's not the norm does not mean it's not a viable option. Continuing with a clearly flawed system just out of some irrational fear of the unknown is not operating in the 'national interest'. Particularly when the current system renders obsolete the votes of a large portion of the people they claim to represent.
A PR system in the UK, like in most countries, would all but end single party government. The consequences would be that over time the parties would moderate their views and policies even more, with an eye to forming governing coalitions (crazy small parties like the BNP, UKIP, Greens, would fill the gap at either end of the spectrum). I think another consequence would be that some of the dogma, of the sort that Thatcher espoused and ruined countless lives and communities with, would have to be tempered by political expediency. Also, I suspect that loathed premiers would be less secure. For example, if the last Government had been a Labour/Lib-Dem coalition, it is likely that the Lib-Dems would have had sufficient motivation to ensure that they weren't associated with Brown coming into this election (by either bringing down his Government or pishing Labour colleagues to get rid).
Clegg must have made a decision that means. Brown would not drop a decision like this with everything that is going on right now.
So either Clegg has said he is siding with the Tories and Brown has decided that's as far as he can take Labour, or Clegg has told him Lib/Lab will happen but only if Brown steps aside.
So either Clegg has said he is siding with the Tories and Brown has decided that's as far as he can take Labour, or Clegg has told him Lib/Lab will happen but only if Brown steps aside.
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