Poll 6CM Voting Poll

[Delinquent]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=40111.msg1101248#msg1101248 date=1273259570]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=40111.msg1101232#msg1101232 date=1273257254]
With this reform people keep talking about and Clegg hoping to get his way from either Tories or Labour, its probably worth mentioning UKIP were then 4th with just under a million votes and BNP 5th with just over half a million. If its about number of votes and percentages etc then will this kinda system help these two get seats?
[/quote]
Yes it will.
[/quote]

That's a good thing in my opinion.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Who are the "respect" party anyway? I see no one on here voted for them.

 

[The Duck]

This site below details the actual manifesto of a chap who was on my ballot paper alongside all the usual candidates standing for the 'Elvis Bus Pass Party'...

Points 1 and 10 are particularly joyful.


http://grumpyoldelvis.co.uk/howden-manifesto/

 

[Portly]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40111.msg1101304#msg1101304 date=1273268821]
Who are the "respect" party anyway? I see no one on here voted for them.
[/quote]

The "Respect" party is basically the maverick ex-Labour politician George Galloway although I don't think he stood for Parliament this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Ha, good old George

 

[themn]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40111.msg1101316#msg1101316 date=1273270812]
Ha, good old George
[/quote]

There are a couple of layers of, I dunno, irony, here.

 

[red_maradona]

Conservative 306 10,706,647
Labour 258 8,604,358
Liberal Democrat 57 6,827,938

if I was a liberal democrat I would be absolutely fuming with thse results, the proportion of votes to seats is incrdible. Whilst PR may have its drawbacks, you have to feel for all those libeal democrat voters who normaly will be marginalised under a majority government. Not sure what the solution is but it does feel wrong to have so many peopls's vote not be reflected accurately.

 

[Portly]

The Liberal Democrats are bound to insist on a referendum on PR as part of the agreement for a pact with the Conservatives, who are in favour of the present "first past the post" system. I very much doubt if the Lib Dems can be bought off with other inducements like posts in the Cabinet or promises to look at the electoral system which have been given and dishonoured in the past.

Although I think the present system has served the country well over many years, and does tend to produce more effective governments, I think the mood of the public is in favour of PR and the Conservatives may be pissing into the wind if they try to hold out against it.

I think it will take some time to get a referendum off the ground, because there are many different versions of PR and there is bound to be considerable haggling about which one to propose to the public in the referendum.

 

[Atlas]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1101302#msg1101302 date=1273268222]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=40111.msg1101248#msg1101248 date=1273259570]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=40111.msg1101232#msg1101232 date=1273257254]
With this reform people keep talking about and Clegg hoping to get his way from either Tories or Labour, its probably worth mentioning UKIP were then 4th with just under a million votes and BNP 5th with just over half a million. If its about number of votes and percentages etc then will this kinda system help these two get seats?
[/quote]
Yes it will.
[/quote]

That's a good thing in my opinion.
[/quote]

I know there is some logic behind this Del, but not sure what it is. I do fee sorry for lib Dems you know with loads of votes but few seats but I'm really unsure about this idea of allowing BNP and other such randoms in.

So if things carry on like this, and there is another election and the voters are pretty much split the balance of power is always in the Lib Dem hands which is kinds shitty also.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=40111.msg1101329#msg1101329 date=1273278150]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1101302#msg1101302 date=1273268222]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=40111.msg1101248#msg1101248 date=1273259570]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=40111.msg1101232#msg1101232 date=1273257254]
With this reform people keep talking about and Clegg hoping to get his way from either Tories or Labour, its probably worth mentioning UKIP were then 4th with just under a million votes and BNP 5th with just over half a million. If its about number of votes and percentages etc then will this kinda system help these two get seats?
[/quote]
Yes it will.
[/quote]

That's a good thing in my opinion.
[/quote]

I know there is some logic behind this Del, but not sure what it is. I do fee sorry for lib Dems you know with loads of votes but few seats but I'm really unsure about this idea of allowing BNP and other such randoms in.

So if things carry on like this, and there is another election and the voters are pretty much split the balance of power is always in the Lib Dem hands which is kinds shitty also.

[/quote]

I understand your feelings Asim, but if half a million people vote for the BNP to have representation then that's what they should get. That's the way democracy works.

Besides, you'd be surprised how much damage it would do to them, the BNP are almost incapable of actually sitting successfully cos the people they have in simply arent cut out to be councillors.

 

[TheBunnyman]

We're talking about ministers surely, not councillors?

I agree though. If the BNP are not considered an illegal organisation, then a democracy should include them in government in a way reflecting the number of people voting for them. If they do anything violent, racist or otherwise illegal, the party should be banned.

 

[Portly]

All three party leaders were being admirably dignified and public-spirited on Friday - putting the Nation first before petty party interests etc. etc.

I predict this will not last when they really get stuck in to the negotiations!! ;D

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1101315#msg1101315 date=1273270573]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40111.msg1101304#msg1101304 date=1273268821]
Who are the "respect" party anyway? I see no one on here voted for them.
[/quote]

The "Respect" party is basically the maverick ex-Labour politician George Galloway although I don't think he stood for Parliament this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway
[/quote]

He did, in a new London constituency (Poplar, I think), and lost.

 

[Fox]

What happens if this deal goes ahead then. If a liberal is in the cabinet are they called conservatives? Does clegg still lead a 2 nd opposition in PMQs or is he joint with cameron now. How does this all work

 

[Portly]

That's the miraculous thing about our wonderful unwritten constitution, Fox.

There are rules for every situation, but hardly anybody knows what they are.

The rules only emerge when stuff happens.

I love it. I hope no dreary political party ever makes us have a boring written constitution!

;D

 

[Rosco]

We regularly have coalitions here Fox and while our system is a little bit different the coalition partners sit on the same side of the house together.

Liberals will still be liberals, in name anyway.

We've got the Greens in government with Fianna Fail at the moment, and the Green minister who ran on a platform of stopping the placement of an incinerator in his constituency is now the Minister for the Environment and has signed off on the placement of that incinerator in his constituency. Green by name, cunt by nature.

 

[Portly]

We're not used to government by coalition over here, so there is immense media excitement over something that is perfectly normal in most European countries.

 

[Judge Jules]

The markets don't seem to rate our chances of making it work, judging by the kerfuffle around our credit rating.

As for European countries, the state of too many of their economies isn't exactly a good advert for the merits of coalition government.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40111.msg1101360#msg1101360 date=1273307484]
We're talking about ministers surely, not councillors?

I agree though. If the BNP are not considered an illegal organisation, then a democracy should include them in government in a way reflecting the number of people voting for them. If they do anything violent, racist or otherwise illegal, the party should be banned.

[/quote]

Yeah, ministers, I was dealing with a two year old adjusting to life post-dummy whilst posting, so mind was completely on the job!

 

[Richey]

I'm personally of an opinion that FPTP is the best system and also think given time that any other system would lead to similar results.

What I would say currently is that, no matter how much i dislike the LDs, Clegg is behaving fairly.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1101468#msg1101468 date=1273317885] currently
[/quote]

LOL I think that is the key word! I fear that as the negotiations progress, feelings will inevitably run high. All three leaders will be under great pressure not to make concessions from hardliners in their constituencies.

 

[Fallon]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=40111.msg1101227#msg1101227 date=1273256383]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1101202#msg1101202 date=1273253875]
Whatever happens it won't last. Coalitions or minority govts never last because they don't work!

PR would be shit anyway and I doubt it would benefit the LDs really. When people produce comparisons they don't consider that people would probably vote differently in a different system!
[/quote]

I think you significantly overestimate the intelligence of the voters in this country. A great number of people have no clue what system we use, a woman I work with tried to tell me I was wrong & that percentages were the deciding factor & seats were 'just a side issue that gets sorted out at the same time'. I explained we dont use proportional representation & she said 'just cos you know long words doesnt make you right'. At this point I should add a few people around me stared in disbelief but at least the same number muttered agreement.

I decided to leave the conversation at this time, for obvious reason.
[/quote]

I've had very similar conversations (pfft, it should only be called that when both people contribute something meaningful) over the last few weeks. You start talking about PR and most people are like a deer caught in headlights.

 

[Portly]

You learn when you are doing political canvassing that you don't know what to expect to find on the other side of the front door. I have encountered fanatical Trotskyites in luxury housing estates and far-right Tories in poor terraced streets.

Generally people are polite and friendly but on one occasion I was leafleting in Cooper Avenue, which is very respectable, when a youngish guy shot out of his house and threatened to "stuff the leaflet up my multicultural arse."

Until then I had not realised I was multicultural and had the arse to go with it. :🙂

 

[Richey]

Most people are indeed fine. Years ago though i remember this one fella who, after delivering a leaflet to him, shot out of his house and followed me down the road telling me over and over and over that it was "not his cup of tea" and he wouldn't be voting for me.

10 minutes later i had to politely tell him that i had got the message, he could vote for whoever he liked and i really had to get on.
His reaction was to say "Oh so you don't want my vote then!"

 

[FoxForceFive]

What's the difference between Nick Clegg & a National Express coach?

The National Express has got more seats.

 

[vantage]

I have to say, as an interested outsider' in all of this, I am staggered that Cameron didn't get in. He was aimimg at the lamest of lame duck Prime Ministers for years and still he couldn't get a working majority.

I don't dislike Cameron, I merely think his persona and accent make him unelectable anywhere North of Watford Gap. It seems that his party haven't learned. Hague, however whould have garnered a lot more supprt oop North.

 

[FoxForceFive]

cameron's a twat no matter where you are in the country.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=40111.msg1101502#msg1101502 date=1273328506]
I have to say, as an interested outsider' in all of this, I am staggered that Cameron didn't get in. He was aimimg at the lamest of lame duck Prime Ministers for years and still he couldn't get a working majority.

I don't dislike Cameron, I merely think his persona and accent make him unelectable anywhere North of Watford Gap. It seems that his party haven't learned. Hague, however whould have garnered a lot more supprt oop North.
[/quote]


to be fair the swing he needed was pretty much unprecedented: mike portillo, who always strikes me as one of the wisest people on tv, has been saying all that it was an almost impossible task.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=40111.msg1101520#msg1101520 date=1273329545]
cameron's a twat no matter where you are in the country.
[/quote]

I'm not in the country Jon. 😉

 

[Atlas]

FFF and Bunnyman RE BNP and democracy...*sighs* I know your right but it makes me feel uneasy. I also agree they will end up making themselves look like twats but still.