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2-2 vs Man City, After Game Thoughts

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I thought that was Adam?

Don't know - I did hear a rumour that Fullham, wanted either Adam, or Downing as part of any player exchange. If Adam don't want to go then Downing will be the one to get shipped out in the exchange. We need a potential goal-scorer in Dempsey more than we need a Stewart Downing, as we have Sterling, Cole, and Osama now.
 
2-2 against the champions . That is OK with me .
Sterling was boss . We have another 1st team player .
Allen looks a bargain and so will Borini when his runs come off .
 
I reckon it'll be Dempsey plus 20m for Downing given how much his value will have gone up on the back of last season.

Anyone else think this is just a smokescreen to lure Barca into an official bid?
 
What I think, is that Downing, while he's just starting to show flashes of brilliance, is, and never will be anywhere near Barca material, and if Barca offer money for him, (while I'd happily accept it) they need their heads examined.
 
I reckon it'll be Dempsey plus 20m for Downing given how much his value will have gone up on the back of last season.

Anyone else think this is just a smokescreen to lure Barca into an official bid?

Barca don't need him - they have enough wingers in their side. But seriously - if its Dempsey - for Downing - it will be a straight swap, but if its Adam, then we are going to have to pay some cash.
 
you sound like KHL today fabs, tbh

seeing something completely different from everyone else, and refusing to change your point of view in light of new evidence

it's actually pretty entertaining, carry on
Actually I completely agree with Fabio. In fact, Gerrard risky style of passing causes a lower pass completion than is expected from a CM in Rodger's system. We may need to push Gerrard further up the field.
 
Moron, just say that you agree with me & stop talking about that now.

Why not look at my boss Gerrard post I did a page or so back. Or someone at least look . Took me at least 5 minutes to do those chalkboards.

Ha ha. I did, and thought of the effort it took to grab, upload and paste them. Kudos.

However don't totally agree with your analysis. Without going back again to check I thought there were 4/5 passes to Coates' position (others were to Allen/Skrtel) and 3 in the second. There has to some degree of variation based on the changing nature/flow of the match and I think that is more a function of SG dropping deeper initially because Lucas went off (or maybe just because City were more on top in the opening few minutes) and then gaining confidence in his new team mates and the system moved forward more. On a positive note look how many of the passes, when in an advanced position, were played forward.
 
Actually I completely agree with Fabio. In fact, Gerrard risky style of passing causes a lower pass completion than is expected from a CM in Rodger's system. We may need to push Gerrard further up the field.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Look at FFF's graphic. When playing in the opposite half of the field you don't expect a completion rate to anywhere near as high as if you are in CM or Defence. As most here, and the journos, have said Gerrard took command of much of the attacking impetus leaving Allen and Shelvey to patrol CM. Which he did very well or didn't you notice how we dominated much of the first half and even in the second still came out at least evens with the reigning champions ? Does anyone seriously think we could have done that if Gerrard was off his game, or indeed off the plan that Rodgers had implemented ?
 
Good to see such positive comments. We drew, and people are acting as if we won. Completely down to the way we played, and the way we took the game on. There was a spell of about 15-20 minutes before the first goal where we played the best football I’ve seen a Liverpool side play in years. That’s not hyperbole, it was genuinely uplifting, and I’m not ashamed to say Skrtel’s header had me off my seat.

Interestingly, check out Coates’ role in the first goal. Somebody find the video online will you? He is there solely to create the space in behind for Skrtel to run into. He doesn’t even make an attempt at getting near the ball, and completely manhandles his opponent into the 6 yard box to open the space behind for Skrtel to storm into. A very clever, well worked set-piece that had come straight from the training ground. Watch the clip again, it’s really interesting.

I thought Coates was good too. I know he dawdled on it a bit, but he’s positionally impressive. Covering Skrtel’s arse when Balotelli rolled him in the first half was good, and what we were coincidentally missing last week when Long got in behind. He’ll do ok. He’s a yard off premier league pace, but then so was Jaap Stam when he first came to England. It only takes Anelka burning you once in the Charity Shield before you learn your lesson and get on your toes a bit earlier.There's definitely something there you can work with.

To wrap up on the individual players bit; Gerrard was immense. What game were some of you watching? That’s stamping your authority and leadership on a game of football. Tackled, chased, harried, demanded the ball. You’ll forgive him the odd pointless cross, if he’s actually trying to take the game on.
Allen’s a fucking Rolls Royce by the way. You'll forgive the 'I told you so' when he's that cunting good. For 15M we’ve got one of the best midfielders in Britain. Get used to him cos he’s going to be the centre piece of our side for the next 10 years too. How reassuring is that btw? A gem of a midfielder and he’s walked in like he owns the fucking place after 90 minutes of football and 2 weeks of training.
And Sterling. We’ve got a fucking player here. Everyone’s touched on what he did so I’m not going down that path; it’s what he does next that interests me. He’s going to get marked a lot tighter, there’s going to be increased expectation on him, he can’t shirk his defensive role, and he can’t think he’s made it after 90 minutes of great football. There’s also a touch of arrogance about him which is a great thing IF he uses it in the right fashion. Cristiano Ronaldo is arrogant. But so’s Jermaine Pennant. The other thing he has to start doing is to roam across the pitch a bit more. Not with the ball, but to pick it up. We saw against Hearts that their full-back had figured him out after 15 minutes, if he’s to take his game to the next level he has to go and roam into areas where he’s not as comfortable and look to lose opponents better. He won't always be able to beat a full-back in a one-on-one, he has to learn to find space and lose his marker too.

Anyway, the style. Once we’d figured out the 3-5-2, and started pressing them higher up the pitch and making their 3 at the back make a choice with the ball at the feet, we looked a lot more dangerous. From about the 15th minute on we looked far better, cos the game opened up. We increased the distance between our back 2 and our front 3 considerably - and lengthened our playing area considerably too. Getting the Suarez-Borini-Sterling front 3 to push up onto their back 3, meant the middle of the ground opened up. That sole tactic opened about 20 more metres of space up and all of a sudden Shelvey and Gerrard starting receiving the ball in space, and higher up the pitch. Peior to that we’d been in confined spaces, playing sideways, and long balls to Suarez and Sterling were our only out.

Shelvey and Gerrard need space. Allen could play in a phone box, so it doesn’t matter to him, but for the former two to influence they need space in front of them and options. They played better triangles than I thought they would, and clearly the lesson of last week when our 3 midfielders were far too far apart had been learned. The difference of Shelvey today and Shelvey on Thursday wasn’t ability or attitude, but space. He had none on Thursday, but after 15 minutes yesterday he had plenty. He’s not good enough yet to work his way into games that aren’t set up for him, but on days like yesterday where you’ve got 5 metres and a team not totally desperate to tackle you, he can play. I suspect he may struggle against weaker teams that come and park the bus, but against a team that keeps their front 2/3 relatively high, he’ll always have room to do something in midfield.

You hear Rodgers talk a lot about control. Rafa used to do it too. By that they mean controlling the middle of the park, controlling ownership of the ball, but significantly – controlling which midfield drops first. City’s 3 in the middle retreated at about the 15 min mark, and couldn’t get back up the ground until late in the game. Mostly because one of them had to help Toure against Sterling, and the other (usually De Jong) was too scared of letting Suarez get in the hole so they dropped deep and the gap to Tevez and Balotelli grew. They missed Barry in that respect. He keeps the ball moving, and keeps possession well. He’s hardly Xavi, but he’s important to their structure.

I thought City were shapeless, and too reliant on their quality players (Tevez, Yaya) to try and drag them out of a hole. They got lucky cos we handed them 2 goals, and to be honest we’re not gonna get a better chance to beat them than this one cos they were way off par. But, we’re a brand new side, with brand new players, playing a brand new style of football, and within the 2nd week it looked like it could work. I’ll take the short term pain, the mental back-passes, the uncomfortable looking right flank (Kelly and Borini never gelled once) and the striker out of form, cos if you have a system and look like a football team that can fucking play football, then you’ll wear the bumps of individual error or shitness every day of the week.

That was far and away the most excited I’ve been watching a Liverpool team play in years, and we still only drew. We’re younger, fitter, have bought incredibly well, have a better style, structure, and approach to playing the game than I could dream for.

Heh, and in Allen and Sterling we’ve got a 22 year old and a 17 year old who we can build a fucking club around.

Good times.
 
The difference of Shelvey today and Shelvey on Thursday wasn’t ability or attitude, but space. He had none on Thursday, after 15 minutes yesterday he had plenty. He’s not good enough – yet- to work his way into games that aren’t set up for him, but on days like yesterday where you’ve got 5 metres and a team not desperate to tackle you, he can play. I suspect he may struggle against weaker teams that come and park the bus, but against a team that keeps their front 2/3 relatively high, he’ll always have room to do something.

Excellent point. Good analysis as always.

Yeah, this team is exciting. Can't wait to see Sahin and Allen play together.
 
Funny thing about Raheem, it wasn't his pace or runs that impressed me it was his excellent first touch and weight of the pass.

Well done.
 
Interestingly, check out Coates’ role in the first goal. Somebody find the video online will you? He is there solely to create the space in behind for Skrtel to run into. He doesn’t even make an attempt at getting near the ball, and completely manhandles his opponent into the 6 yard box to open the space behind for Skrtel to storm into. A very clever, well worked set-piece that had come straight from the training ground. Watch the clip again, it’s really interesting.

Modo - do me a favour and paste the video of the overhead shot of the first goal to show this will you?
 
Good points from Ryan, and I agree completely about Shelvey and space.

It was a very exciting performance in terms of giving a glimpse of the manager's vision.
 
First goal by Toure irritated the life out of me cause we had the opportunity to clear it but messed it up and Toure was practically on all fours when he put it in.

Borini is going to be pretty good for us and, like Ryan, I think you can tell a bit about a striker from the chances he misses. That said, I couldn't escape the feeling that he's never going to be a really good poacher. He'll drive defenses mad with his movement and, if he gets his feel working properly, he’ll find people in good positions cause his movement will open up gaps. But a predator he won’t be IMO.
One real positive was how well he and Suarez hooked up; they weren’t on the same page always and a couple of times the ball could maybe have been played earlier but they were on similar wavelengths which bodes well.

Apart from missing a couple of very gettable chances, made up with the form of Luis, the effort, control and influence of Stevie and the approach of Johnson. Stunned by the injury to Lucas; he won’t be missed as much with Allen in the side – who improved hugely on his previous showing – but couldn’t believe that he was injured – maybe that first injury has created an issue for him.

Skrtel will be distraught after that gift but he put us in control with a thunderous header so all even I guess.

Impressed with Coates who performed better than I expected and wrapped for Sterling who was keen and hungry from the opening whistle.

Overall it was a very encouraging performance but the test will now be the next game; if we don’t see the same sort of effort, commitment, hunger then we’ll know that, essentially, the same problems are still causing us issues. A performance of that kind would put Hearts and the like to bed very quickly.
 
I love reading Ryan's post Mach analyses when they're in a positive light. That was perfectly executed. Kudos.
 
you sound like KHL today fabs, tbh

seeing something completely different from everyone else, and refusing to change your point of view in light of new evidence

it's actually pretty entertaining, carry on

I've seen no contrary evidence. I've seen contrary opinions.

The stats FFF put up validate my opinion tbh
 
Moron, just say that you agree with me & stop talking about that now.

Why not look at my boss Gerrard post I did a page or so back. Or someone at least look . Took me at least 5 minutes to do those chalkboards.

I agree and they echo what I said earlier
 
Indeed, that is a brilliant post Ryan.

Next time you write one of those, throw a chalkboard graphic or two in, & find the video clip you need (101goals) should always have them, then do it as a separate thread. It not only deserves a little more credit but it will serve a purpose in making one thread tactical talk that's a bit more in depth than the usual post match chat.
 
Meh, that sounds like a lot of work Jon.

Although, I'm desperate for an easy-to-use chalkboard to be honest.
 
Here you go, Skrtel's goal. I noticed that too, Coates blocked off the player, so no one could come away from the goal to attack the ball, while Skrtel isolated their player (Kolorov?)

 
Meh, that sounds like a lot of work Jon.

Although, I'm desperate for an easy-to-use chalkboard to be honest.

Four four two stats zone.

There's an iPhone app (can use on ipad too) which is a piece of piss.

If you put tapatalk on the same iPhone then you can upload the photos directly from your phone having taken a screen shot (press power & home together).
 
Four four two stats zone.

There's an iPhone app (can use on ipad too) which is a piece of piss.

If you put tapatalk on the same iPhone then you can upload the photos directly from your phone having taken a screen shot (press power & home together).
^^^Never learns.
 
Here you go, Skrtel's goal. I noticed that too, Coates blocked off the player, so no one could come away from the goal to attack the ball, while Skrtel isolated their player (Kolorov?)



Gotta love how he shoves Coates out of the way to go on his celebration run. "Comin' through!". 😀
 
Interesting listening to Toure's post match comments, he said since he's been in England, it was probably one of, if not THE best, most competitive game he's played in.

Fair play.
 
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