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Who would have guessed ... ?

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[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47967.msg1446241#msg1446241 date=1324238677]
That is a very interesting point Paul. Can anyone see why Henderson was bought for nearly ten times the amount Shelvey was? Surely those 20/30 Premier League games Henderson had at Sunderland didnt bring his value up THAT much.

Either way, we could have a very, very good CM for the next few years.
[/quote]

that was my point!!! and it wasn't the first time i've made it on here!!!

HURT.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47967.msg1446241#msg1446241 date=1324238677]
That is a very interesting point Paul. Can anyone see why Henderson was bought for nearly ten times the amount Shelvey was? Surely those 20/30 Premier League games Henderson had at Sunderland didnt bring his value up THAT much.

Either way, we could have a very, very good CM for the next few years.
[/quote]

It's a habit I have.
I can only assume that captaining the under 21s has done it really. But it is a bit of a steep curve in value for two players who are seemingly at a similar level of ability.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47967.msg1446243#msg1446243 date=1324238869]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47967.msg1446241#msg1446241 date=1324238677]
That is a very interesting point Paul. Can anyone see why Henderson was bought for nearly ten times the amount Shelvey was? Surely those 20/30 Premier League games Henderson had at Sunderland didnt bring his value up THAT much.

Either way, we could have a very, very good CM for the next few years.
[/quote]

that was my point!!! and it wasn't the first time i've made it on here!!!

HURT.
[/quote]

Ahh come on now Peter, you've clearly invaded my thoughts and posted it before me tis all.
 
They are at a similar level now and Sheley hasn't had a full season at this level to mature as Jordan has. With 30+ games under his belt Jonjo could be a fucking beast for us.
 
[quote author=PaulGorst link=topic=47967.msg1446246#msg1446246 date=1324238958]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47967.msg1446243#msg1446243 date=1324238869]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47967.msg1446241#msg1446241 date=1324238677]
That is a very interesting point Paul. Can anyone see why Henderson was bought for nearly ten times the amount Shelvey was? Surely those 20/30 Premier League games Henderson had at Sunderland didnt bring his value up THAT much.

Either way, we could have a very, very good CM for the next few years.
[/quote]

that was my point!!! and it wasn't the first time i've made it on here!!!

HURT.
[/quote]

Ahh come on now Peter, you've clearly invaded my thoughts and posted it before me tis all.
[/quote]

I have never *once* read a post of yours were you suggested that, Peter!

🙂
 
A similar level? I think Jonjo looks quite obviously more talented and more capable of creating stuff that henderson.
 
Re: Re: Who would have guessed ... ?

[quote author=Woland link=topic=47967.msg1#msg1 date=1324239668]
A similar level? I think Jonjo looks quite obviously more talented and more capable of creating stuff that henderson.
[/quote]

Generally the always looking forward for a pass helps

I really think henderson is lucas 3 years ago.
 
I think Henderson is currently better than Shelvey, Henderson was a bit quiet today, but to be fair the game was quiet. He did his job, was reliable enough, he'll have a big future with us, probably showing us a lot more next season.

Shelvey, I don't get the love fest with him. I like him don't get me wrong, but not that much, everytime I watch him I get frustrated he doesn't have just a little bit of a burst of pace like Gerrard. He was good today, not fantastic though, Henderson has played that role better this season. Still Shelvey is 19 and has a big future ahead of him. I can see a Trio of Lucas, Henderson and Shelvey in the future, it'll be fanatastic.

The point about the price is very valid though, we overpaid for Henderson and unpaid for Shelvey, Henderson is the better player, but not 20 times or whatever it relatively figures to.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47967.msg1446255#msg1446255 date=1324239668]
A similar level? I think Jonjo looks quite obviously more talented and more capable of creating stuff that henderson.
[/quote]

Without question.
 
I really like Henderson, he and shelvey both share the same best position though, so you'll never see the best of both of them on the pitch together.

They have different qualities though, I feel henderson's best quality is making runs from deep & playing quick passes, whereas shelvey is more dynamic.
 
I can't see how this was such a great surprise, Kenny wants CMs that can get around the whole pitch, and that is part of the reason Lucas improved, or was seen to improve, he was not expected to sit very deep and be a spoiler.
Why would anyone be surprised by Shelvey, he has always looked confident and shown good vision and drive.
Regards
 
Henderson has the makings of a very good player is mobile and gets about the park. He is improving but still goes missing, is not direct enough and plays safe.

Jonjo looks the more rounded player, makes time on the ball and is more direct. His passing range is better and he is more comfortable in possession.

Both are young and will continue to develop into top players but I'd choose Jonjo ahead of Henderson every time.
 
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47967.msg1446257#msg1446257 date=1324239928]
I think Henderson is currently better than Shelvey, Henderson was a bit quiet today, but to be fair the game was quiet. He did his job, was reliable enough, he'll have a big future with us, probably showing us a lot more next season.

Shelvey, I don't get the love fest with him. I like him don't get me wrong, but not that much, everytime I watch him I get frustrated he doesn't have just a little bit of a burst of pace like Gerrard. He was good today, not fantastic though, Henderson has played that role better this season. Still Shelvey is 19 and has a big future ahead of him. I can see a Trio of Lucas, Henderson and Shelvey in the future, it'll be fanatastic.

The point about the price is very valid though, we overpaid for Henderson and unpaid for Shelvey, Henderson is the better player, but not 20 times or whatever it relatively figures to.
[/quote]

Agree with Mystic.

I thought Shelvey had a tidy game showing promise today, with a lovely flick leading to the first goal. But I don't see this "dynamic" player others do, more a lack of dynamism, pace and intelligence holding him back. I thought the game (and his team-mates) passed him by at times today, and he looked spent after 60 mins or so.

For me, he's 19 and showing promise (and prodigious self-belief) to be a decent enough player for us one day, but no superstar in the making. More of a Danny Murphy than a Steven Gerrard.
 
I don't think Shelvey was as good as some of the comments on here are making out either. Having said that I've always liked him. He looks a footballer in that he's got decent technique and brain on him (see Henderson as well). You can always build on that.

He doesn't look out of place, which is nice to see, but also clearly doesn't particularly stand out. Not in the way guys like Wilshere, Ramsay or Thiago do. That might come down to development - he's not quite had the same environment / opportunities to shine as those guys - or it might come down to talent.

I do think though that he'd benefit from a decent run of games over the next 12 months so we can all see what he's made of in the here and now (rather than when he hits 22/23). I'm not sure the best place for him is Liverpool as he more than likely won't get those games.
 
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=47967.msg1446184#msg1446184 date=1324231433]
Maybe Benitez did when he signed him...
[/quote]

LOL
 
Great performance by Jonjo, i think what i loved was his instinct to drift into positions to drag defenders away from Suarez and Bellamy, to follow up shots and loose balls. I even saw a couple of Alonso-esque beauties.

Him and Henderson are fast becoming my favourite players.
 
Ha, we were saying Shelvey is a result of a freaky, Bioshock-esque experiment to create a footballer.
 
You need two extremes for a polarised debate though.

It seems to me that some (me included) see him as a player of promise (not extreme).

Others appear to think he's the second coming (extreme based upon his appearances so far).
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=47967.msg1446524#msg1446524 date=1324266465]
He looks like the proevo default player.
[/quote]
Hes a bald Piedro.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=47967.msg1446153#msg1446153 date=1324228417]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47967.msg1446048#msg1446048 date=1324224373]
I'm also excited about Henderson's future, I really like what I see of him. Seems to have a great attitude too
[/quote]

I thought it was another typically 'tidy' performance by Henderson. He really doesn't offer any penetration at all in terms of his passing, which is a bit suspect for a central midfielder. He plays it safe nearly every time and when he doesn't, it seems to go wrong.

An assured performance from Shelvey though. Not spectacular, but promising. And I agree, Ross. I've liked him since the moment I saw him. If he gets regular games in that position then I think he'll really grow into the role.
[/quote]

I agree that at the moment he's nothing more than tidy however, I like what I see by way of potential, he doesn't seem phased being at a big club and seems willing to put the work in. He has a bit of everything, good energy, comfortable on the ball, can put in a tackle and has an eye for goal. It's gonna take him time to develop to the point where he can really impose himself on a game, let's not forget how long it's taken Lucas.

I'm excited about Henderson's future.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47967.msg1446644#msg1446644 date=1324288870]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=47967.msg1446153#msg1446153 date=1324228417]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47967.msg1446048#msg1446048 date=1324224373]
I'm also excited about Henderson's future, I really like what I see of him. Seems to have a great attitude too
[/quote]

I thought it was another typically 'tidy' performance by Henderson. He really doesn't offer any penetration at all in terms of his passing, which is a bit suspect for a central midfielder. He plays it safe nearly every time and when he doesn't, it seems to go wrong.

An assured performance from Shelvey though. Not spectacular, but promising. And I agree, Ross. I've liked him since the moment I saw him. If he gets regular games in that position then I think he'll really grow into the role.
[/quote]

He doesn't seem phased being at a big club and seems willing to put the work in. He has a bit of everything, good energy, comfortable on the ball, can put in a tackle and has an eye for goal.

[/quote]

I feel the same. Even though he's played it largely "safe" when he's had the ball, he's always making himself available and has good movement. He gives the impression that he's psychologically strong and "knows" he's a potentially very good player - and crucially is prepared to work hard for it. I can see him being a consistent improver over the next couple of years.

I'm really beginning to like him.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=47967.msg1446695#msg1446695 date=1324292191]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47967.msg1446644#msg1446644 date=1324288870]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=47967.msg1446153#msg1446153 date=1324228417]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47967.msg1446048#msg1446048 date=1324224373]
I'm also excited about Henderson's future, I really like what I see of him. Seems to have a great attitude too
[/quote]

I thought it was another typically 'tidy' performance by Henderson. He really doesn't offer any penetration at all in terms of his passing, which is a bit suspect for a central midfielder. He plays it safe nearly every time and when he doesn't, it seems to go wrong.

An assured performance from Shelvey though. Not spectacular, but promising. And I agree, Ross. I've liked him since the moment I saw him. If he gets regular games in that position then I think he'll really grow into the role.
[/quote]

He doesn't seem phased being at a big club and seems willing to put the work in. He has a bit of everything, good energy, comfortable on the ball, can put in a tackle and has an eye for goal.

[/quote]

I feel the same. Even though he's played it largely "safe" when he's had the ball, he's always making himself available and has good movement. He gives the impression that he's psychologically strong and "knows" he's a potentially very good player - and crucially is prepared to work hard for it. I can see him being a consistent improver over the next couple of years.

I'm really beginning to like him.
[/quote] I am on the Henderson bandwagon too.
Him and Shelvey are going to be permanent fixtures in the Premiership/Champions league winning side of a few years time.
Neets, you are nominated as the one to start the "Henderson fan club"
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47967.msg1446624#msg1446624 date=1324287389]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=47967.msg1446524#msg1446524 date=1324266465]
He looks like the proevo default player.
[/quote]
Hes a bald Piedro.
[/quote]

I never imagined that Peter was that, er, slim.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47967.msg1446644#msg1446644 date=1324288870]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=47967.msg1446153#msg1446153 date=1324228417]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47967.msg1446048#msg1446048 date=1324224373]
I'm also excited about Henderson's future, I really like what I see of him. Seems to have a great attitude too
[/quote]

I thought it was another typically 'tidy' performance by Henderson. He really doesn't offer any penetration at all in terms of his passing, which is a bit suspect for a central midfielder. He plays it safe nearly every time and when he doesn't, it seems to go wrong.

An assured performance from Shelvey though. Not spectacular, but promising. And I agree, Ross. I've liked him since the moment I saw him. If he gets regular games in that position then I think he'll really grow into the role.
[/quote]

I agree that at the moment he's nothing more than tidy however, I like what I see by way of potential, he doesn't seem phased being at a big club and seems willing to put the work in. He has a bit of everything, good energy, comfortable on the ball, can put in a tackle and has an eye for goal. It's gonna take him time to develop to the point where he can really impose himself on a game, let's not forget how long it's taken Lucas.

I'm excited about Henderson's future.
[/quote]

I'm surprised you say that because I think that's part of the problem. He's look terrified out there at times and I assumed (and hoped) that this is because he's a little overawed and perhaps scared to put a foot wrong. There have been a couple of glimpses (in particular his runs forward), but I'm still not convinced he'll make it here.

Would love to be proved wrong though.
 
Not at all Del, he never shys away from the ball or getting involved, always looks to make himself available to receive the ball, and looks for openings to get infront of goal.

The boy is a star waiting to happen, and he wears number 14, I have to love him. And have now been appointed as the president of his fan club. Goo Team Henderson!
 
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