Compared to some of the names on that list, yes they aren't as good. Some of those players were elite.
I hate how players are either deemed great or shit. No middle ground it seems now days.
Modern day fans really.
What's our best CM 3?
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Compared to some of the names on that list, yes they aren't as good. Some of those players were elite.
I hate how players are either deemed great or shit. No middle ground it seems now days.
Modern day fans really.
This was our team in 2005 Champions League final:
Dudek
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Traore
Riise
Alonso
Gerrard
Luis Garcia
Kewell
Baros
Subs: Hamann, Smicer, Cisse
By this standard more than half of this team is "shite" – yet it delivered the best football moment of my life. You will see 11 true legends on the same pitch only in testimonials.
That midfield duo was arguably one of our best though
And I wouldn't say more than half were shite. 4 definitely shite, 2 decent, 5 borderline legends
The subs had 1 good'un. The others were shite.
Dross can sometimes give brilliant moments, it doesn't mean they're generally not shite
You're absolutely right but compare it to our rivals and it's not that grim at all:
Mancs - Matic, Pogba (useless under Mourinho) and a load of shit
Chelsea - Kante and a load of shit
Spurs - Dembele and a load of shit
Arsenal - Lol
Maybe harsh on Spurs because you could arguably add Eriksen/Alli there (although I wouldn't class them as CMs at all) and their load of shit is a bit better than others' anyway but I'd say we're not far behind, especially with Keita coming in.
United have 2 excellent CMS, thankfully misused
Kante, fabregas are both excellent, Drinkwater is on par with what we've got and bakayoko...I honestly don't know
Spurs have the pick really. Dembele, eriksen, dier, wanyama. All brilliant.
I think our midfield is greater than the sum of its parts, but still arguably the weakest out the top 5.
Yeah, it's hardly a great moment for midfielders as far as I can see. There's no Gerrard, Scholes, Keane, Vierra etc playing at the minute, and I don't know enough about European football to make a case for anyone... other than being well pleased that Keita is coming in. And, yeah, our shit is defo better than that time Woy played Lucas and Poulsen, but I gotta judge it on its own merits, and it's nowhere near the vast majority of midfields we've had since the 70s.
Kante is a very effective player, but Fabregas is less mobile than Lucas and moves around the pitch like Charlie Adam after a Gregg's blowout. As for Bakayoko, I'm very confused. I saw him play two or three times for Monaco and he was really, really impressive; big, quick and able to do a good job defensively, as well as having good technique. It seemed a decent bet to move Matic on, and bring him in.
But I've watched him a couple of times this season, and he's had one good game, and looked fucking shite every other time. Long may that continue.
Likewise I don't know shit about football outside the Premier league but yeah here it's De Bruyne and then everyone else. Pogba should be in that category on paper but hopefully Mourinho keeps turning him to Fellaini long enough so he can completely forget how to play football.
Fabregas doesn't work well deeper, so the mobility issues I get. But hes still a fantastic footballer and can decide games.
Bakayoko has everything to be brilliant....I think like pogba, he's being utilised incorrectly.
But then, I don't actually know what position he plays? "Midfielder" isn't an option anymore. Think he'd be boss for us
Honestly simply can not agree re. Fabregas, you surely have hardly seen him play this season to state that. He's not as mobile, sure, but that was never the point of him. I know he's right up there with creating assists and goal chances in the PL charts and we know he's a superb passer and technician, and he is still a player you can rely on to control a game, slow it down and keep control when necessary, he may be nearly done but not just yet.
Bakayoko is amazing. So shite I have no idea what Conte was thinking selling Matic for him. He's occasionally decent enough around the park, not often and nothing special, but put him within 30m of goal, and especially let him shoot, and it's bellyache time.
No it isn't. Traore was. The rest vary from ok to fucking brilliant.
Dudek
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Traore
Riise
Alonso
Gerrard
Luis Garcia
Kewell
Baros
Subs: Hamann, Smicer, Cisse
By this standard more than half of this team is "shite
How is half of that team "shite"? By any fucking standards?
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Traore
Riise
Alonso
Gerrard
Luis Garcia
Kewell
Baros
Subs: Hamann, Smicer, Cisse
By this standard more than half of this team is "shite
How is half of that team "shite"? By any fucking standards?
Wish they were more constructive and not so limited in their opinions then.
I just hate the whole - "he's shit" argument.
It's clearly not true. Say why he's (or they are) weak in certain areas, why he's not as good as you want etc.
But to say all our midfielders are just "shit", when they help stop our side from conceding the second least shots on our goal in the Top Five leagues in Europe. Dominate most games in terms of possession. Give our front three enough possession to win us games.
If our CM was so bad we wouldn't be about to come 2nd in the league, which we're going to do!
Can it be improved upon - sure. Are any of them world class - no.
But "shit" - Hard to respect opinions like that. Just limited, deconstructive wibble.
Unconstructive and deconstructive don't mean the same thing.
Hope that has been constructive.
Hope that has been constructive.
Nice to see that's what you wanted to discuss from that post...
I know why I stopped coming on here now!
I don't enjoy people being pedantic and debating the pointless parts of post, when someone is typing quickly so spelling errors etc. will happen.
I'd rather people discussed the actually points.
Time for another break from here I think. My last one was a few years! Haha
"Don't enjoy learning" - what a snide and ugly comment.
No I don't wish to stay at a place where people don't want to discuss football. Instead like sly digs at pointless digs at irrelevant shit.
I wish I was a positive as you, and ok I'll caveat that shit with 'relatively'. We've always had at least one ten inch boner of a midfielder, often more, and now we've got a big pile of shit, relatively. I'm sure if we had one world class dude in the middle the others would up their games, and their flaws wouldn't be as obvious. That's what I'm hoping for with Keita, but meanwhile I just can't help thinking our starting midfield since Gerrard left has been the weakest we've had in my memory... apart from as I say, that day Woy started with Lucas and Poulsen at Birmingham. I was at that match and Lee Bowyer and Barry Ferguson ran the show, in a bore draw nil nil that would have been well worse if Cameron Jerome wasn't complete shit. I digress.
That's better, good post mate.
See this is an opinion I find it hard to disagree with.
Yes we don't have a world class player in our CM anymore. Keita will change that and if we can get Jorginho too, although he's not elite like Keita, he's certainly an upgrade and can give our CM something they lack - composure, intelligence and someone who can dictate play and feed our front three better by passing through the lines.
Our CM certainly isn't perfect, far from it. It lacks a world class name currently. But they are doing a lot right, even if there is still plenty of improvements to be made.
I love this forum when people debate like this. Respecting different opinions, agreeing to disagreeing etc.
Not sure if I'm going to stay here, as I think it's more of a "he's shit" type of site target market, rather than your last reply - hence probably why you replied as you did initially. I'd rather a place where it is more like the latter.
Thanks for your more detailed reply. 🙂
This is a lot of pressure to put on Woland.
This is defo the best Liverpool forum with the most diverse range of opinions and the most chill mods on the web. You'd get banned on RAWK for saying Lucas's farts smell. Hardly anyone agrees on anything not clearly obvious on here, so I don't get your point. Also, the detailed posts on here from the likes of Rurik are far more objective than on any other site, but if it's a happy clappy herd you're after you are defo in the wrong place.
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Everyone has a post a month where they put effort in, but otherwise it's very argumentative.
Generally we all just sit about waiting for Rurik for us all to absolutely nosh on.
Or for us to play shite. Then the true tapestry of vulgar adjectives comes out
Here's a delight
Generally we all just sit about waiting for Rurik for us all to absolutely nosh on.
Or for us to play shite. Then the true tapestry of vulgar adjectives comes out
Here's a delight
Our midfield has too many workers and not enough quality. They're all pretty much the same doing the same. No one who can stamp their authority in a game. No one who dictates our play, no creativity. The balance is all wrong and makes their deficiencies stand out even more. Oh and not one of them is a 'clutch' player. Hence why i called them average.
This for me.
I'd add inconsistent to that. Hendo on his day can look like a world beater. Can, on his day, can look like a world beater.
Same has applied to all of them in games/spells this season.
I have said for years that I find it hard to write out an eleven for us to play & balance the midfield is my mind. I can get a working team there, but I never think, yeah, he should play there, he should play here etc, cos they're all so damn similar.
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