Weekend Games 30th Sept

[manwithnoname]

We scored 63 goals last season with Firmino as our top scorer with 10.

2 less then Arsenal and more than Utd.
City were top scorers with 71.

Scoring goals havent been a problem since Klopp took over in all honesty.

Yeah, and only two less than West Ham! And one more than Everton!

There seems to be less correlation between goals scored and Champions than the obvious pattern I have pointed out with the Champions always having a 20-goal player, but still, looking at the previous six or seven seasons, the average number of goals scored by the Champions is about 89 goals.

Of course, you can win the title by scoring far fewer - Leicester being the obvious most recent example, but Leicester were a total fluke and outlier, and won the league with the fewest goals scored for nearly a decade. Plus, let's not pretend that we could ever match that kind of defensive performance, especially given so far we have conceded more set-piece goals than every other team bar Swansea since the start of last season, and have managed exactly zero clean sheets so far this.

So yeah, while this is an ongoing discussion about our requirement for a reliable, regular Premiership goalscorer - which recent history suggests all Champions have - there is obviously another debate to be had about our ongoing and existing defensive problems.

Really, we need to address both.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yeah and we've banged in ten more goals than Leicester this season with their amazing 20 goal striker.
It's all so baffling.

Yeah. And how did they ever win the league last season, while we came 8th?

BAFFLE TOWN!

 

[ILD]

Everyone would love a fit and on form Sturridge scoring 20 league goals for us.

I don't understand why you need to state in every match thread that Frimino doesn't score enough goals. It's weird, it's after turning into a gentle obsession for you and you now feel obligated to wheel it out every week. It would be great if he scored more but Frimino is a very good player and important to the team as a whole.

 

[Hansern]

Yeah, and only two less than West Ham! And one more than Everton!

There seems to be less correlation between goals scored and Champions than the obvious pattern I have pointed out with the Champions always having a 20-goal player, but still, looking at the previous six or seven seasons, the average number of goals scored by the Champions is about 89 goals.

Of course, you can win the title by scoring far fewer - Leicester being the obvious most recent example, but Leicester were a total fluke and outlier, and won the league with the fewest goals scored for nearly a decade. Plus, let's not pretend that we could ever match that kind of defensive performance, especially given so far we have conceded more set-piece goals than every other team bar Swansea since the start of last season, and have managed exactly zero clean sheets so far this.

So yeah, while this is an ongoing discussion about our requirement for a reliable, regular Premiership goalscorer - which recent history suggests all Champions have - there is obviously another debate to be had about our ongoing and existing defensive problems.

Really, we need to address both.

Last 10 seasons: 68, 73, 102, 86, 93, 78, 103, 68, 80, 83 = an average of 83. Only 3 times higher than 90.
Last two seasons are 68 and 73.

Goals wont be a problem even if our top scorer ends up to be Firmino with 14 goals.
Its the defence that will be the key to breaking into the top 4 or challenging.

 

[manwithnoname]

Everyone would love a fit and on form Sturridge scoring 20 league goals for us.

I don't understand why you need to state in every match thread that Frimino doesn't score enough goals. It's weird, it's after turning into a gentle obsession for you and you now feel obligated to wheel it out every week. It would be great if he scored more but Frimino is a very good player and important to the team as a whole.

But that's the point! I don't think everyone does!

Every thread is about the collective goals scored and fantasy island estimates about Coutinho, Lallana, Firmino and Mane scoring 15 goals each or whatever, and how - even if he was capable of scoring 20 goals - Sturridge shouldn't play ahead of Firmino.

There's plenty who think fucking Origi should play instead of Sturridge.

I'm very clearly overplaying my dislike of Firmino and his ability, but not as much as lots of people are overrating him. I quite regularly rate him highly in post-match threads and make him one of my three MOTM picks.

All I'm saying is that your main striker has to - HAS TO - score more than 10 fucking goals.

 

[HC]

Youd argue that of all the players we have in offensive positions , firmino isnt too high up the list of needing to add more goals , everyone else underachieved last season

 

[Hansern]

Youd argue that of all the players we have in offensive positions , firmino isnt too high up the list of needing to add more goals , everyone else underachieved last season

Yep. Last season we had scored 7 goals after 7 games. A bit different so far this season.

 

[ILD]

But that's the point! I don't think everyone does!

Every thread is about the collective goals scored and fantasy island estimates about Coutinho, Lallana, Firmino and Mane scoring 15 goals each or whatever, and how - even if he was capable of scoring 20 goals - Sturridge shouldn't play ahead of Firmino.

There's plenty who think fucking Origi should play instead of Sturridge.

I'm very clearly overplaying my dislike of Firmino and his ability, but not as much as lots of people are overrating him. I quite regularly rate him highly in post-match threads and make him one of my three MOTM picks.

All I'm saying is that your main striker has to - HAS TO - score more than 10 fucking goals.

People are seeing it as an unnecessary attack at Frimino. It is positioned as an 'attack' because you seem to reiterate it in numerous match threads regardless of the game or scoreline. As you said yourself, you are clearly overplaying your dislike for him which is leading to certain posters defending him.

I think it all stems for this post of yours.

Firmino (2) I fear this flabby, pointless melt is going to be another of those players that some bellends desperately - endlessly - try and convince everyone is actually great, until years of everyone's time has been wasted.

You nailed your colours to the mast early with Frimino and now seems that you feel you have to hammer your point home in any game he doesn't score regardless of how well we played as a team or what the scoreline was.


P.S. Everyone WOULD love to have a fit and on form Sturridge in the side.

 

[Insignificance]

People are seeing it as an unnecessary attack at Frimino. It is positioned as an 'attack' because you seem to reiterate it in numerous match threads regardless of the game or scoreline. As you said yourself, you are clearly overplaying your dislike for him which is leading to certain posters defending him.

I think it all stems for this post of yours.

Firmino (2) I fear this flabby, pointless melt is going to be another of those players that some bellends desperately - endlessly - try and convince everyone is actually great, until years of everyone's time has been wasted.

You nailed your colours to the mast early with Frimino and now seems that you feel you have to hammer your point home in any game he doesn't score regardless of how well we played as a team or what the scoreline was.


P.S. Everyone WOULD love to have a fit and on form Sturridge in the side.

Amen to that!

 

[Mystic]

Joint top scorers in the league, and you're moaning about not scoring enough goals, SixCrazyMinutes never disappoints.

 

[Leo]

People are seeing it as an unnecessary attack at Frimino. It is positioned as an 'attack' because you seem to reiterate it in numerous match threads regardless of the game or scoreline. As you said yourself, you are clearly overplaying your dislike for him which is leading to certain posters defending him.

I think it all stems for this post of yours.

Firmino (2) I fear this flabby, pointless melt is going to be another of those players that some bellends desperately - endlessly - try and convince everyone is actually great, until years of everyone's time has been wasted.

You nailed your colours to the mast early with Frimino and now seems that you feel you have to hammer your point home in any game he doesn't score regardless of how well we played as a team or what the scoreline was.


P.S. Everyone WOULD love to have a fit and on form Sturridge in the side.

Oh dear.

 

[ILD]

Oh dear what Leo?

 

[Leo]

Oh dear what Leo?

It's Brendan's catchphrase.

 

[ILD]

Ah okay.

 

[cloggypop]

Why does anyone give a fuck what Brendan thinks?

 

[cloggypop]

He's only some loon on the internet. Same as everyone else on here.

 

[Hansern]

Everyone knows that you should listen to the fucking Scandos anyway

 

[cloggypop]

Fucking Scandos > Brendan

 

[gene hughes]

I suspect that the causal relationship is not so straightforward here.

Sure, league-winning teams often have an attacking player who scores a lot of goals.

But one cannot simply say that the team wins the league because the attacker scores a lot of goals, the causal relationship is more complex. In a truly great team, the attacking players have more opportunity to score, so players are also more likely to score a lot of goals in a really good team. In a sense, league winning teams often have high-scoring attackers because they are league winning teams.

Having low scoring attackers is arguably as much an indicator of mediocrity as a driver of it.

 

[ILD]

I do like the thoughts of one of our players banging in 20 goals because it probably means we've had a decent season. Then again, Rafa won La Liga with Ruben Baraja being their top scorer with 11 goals.

 

[Modo]

[xtable=530x161]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Player{/td}
{td}Games - starts (sub){/td}
{td}Goals{/td}
{td}Assists{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Sadio Mané{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Philippe Coutinho{/td}
{td}6(1){/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Roberto Firmino{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}James Milner{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Jordan Henderson{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Adam Lallana{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

Looking at it from a cumulative perspective those stats are great. At this rate Coutinho might end up with around 18 goals and 12 assists. Lallana with 18 goals and 18 assists etc. Of course that won't happen, but something around 10 goals each for Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana, Mané might be reachable.
Btw Milner is one card away from getting suspended

 

[Mystic]

Btw Milner is one card away from getting suspended

 

[Squiggles]

When Klopp won the Bundisliga in 2013/14, Lewandowski scored 22 league goals. He did win it in 2010/11 without a 20+ goal scoring striker (Barios getting 16).

Personally I think he would prefer his main striker would score 20+ goals, with his surrounding AM's scoring 8-12 each. Against that measure Firmino is more than good enough but a clear distinction should be made.

I think the idea that Klopp doesn't play with a main striker a bit absurd. You only have to look at his development of Lewandowski and Aubameyang to see the importance on the position. He's certainly not a massive advocate of the false 9 position Firmino plays. To me he plays there because Sturridge isn't capable of playing how Klopp wants and Firmino is the best alternative. Good enough to win the league? That's debatable, but the majority of evidence points to no.

For us to win the league we will either have to see a rejuvenated Sturridge scoring lots of goals, Firmino increasing his goal tally by ~100%, or each of our attacking players increases their figures by ~35%. I'm not massively confident of either of them options.

 

[Mystic]

When Klopp won the Bundisliga in 2013/14, Lewandowski scored 22 league goals. He did win it in 2010/11 without a 20+ goal scoring striker (Barios getting 16).

Personally I think he would prefer his main striker would score 20+ goals, with his surrounding AM's scoring 8-12 each. Against that measure Firmino is more than good enough but a clear distinction should be made.

I think the idea that Klopp doesn't play with a main striker a bit absurd. You only have to look at his development of Lewandowski and Aubameyang to see the importance on the position. He's certainly not a massive advocate of the false 9 position Firmino plays. To me he plays there because Sturridge isn't capable of playing how Klopp wants and Firmino is the best alternative. Good enough to win the league? That's debatable, but the majority of evidence points to no.

For us to win the league we will either have to see a rejuvenated Sturridge scoring lots of goals, Firmino increasing his goal tally by ~100%, or sign someone new.

We're currently the top scorers in the league after playing Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs away, how on earth can you come to the conclusion that we need more goals? If our defence was as good as Spurs we'd be top of the league right now, no question about it.

 

[manwithnoname]

I think the idea that Klopp doesn't play with a main striker a bit absurd. You only have to look at his development of Lewandowski and Aubameyang to see the importance on the position. He's certainly not a massive advocate of the false 9 position Firmino plays. To me he plays there because Sturridge isn't capable of playing how Klopp wants and Firmino is the best alternative. Good enough to win the league? That's debatable, but the majority of evidence points to no.

For us to win the league we will either have to see a rejuvenated Sturridge scoring lots of goals, Firmino increasing his goal tally by ~100%, or sign someone new.

I've been saying EXACTLY this for ages. Lets see if you generate the same amount of opprobrium.

Mind you, I say it more often and also called Firmino "a flabby melt" once, so I probably do create a bit more heat.

 

[Squiggles]

We're comparing against the measure of winning the league here. Not 'fighting for forth' so standards are high. We're on a rich run of form and have started the season impressively, but it's numbers at the end which often matter. Our form will drop and that's when the lack of a proper striker will hurt us, unless Sturridge rediscovers his scoring touch. As you say, the defence is quite rightly a bigger area of concern, but the other end isn't without its doubts either.

 

[manwithnoname]

We're comparing against the measure of winning the league here. Not 'fighting for forth' so standards are high. We're on a rich run of form and have started the season impressively, but it's numbers at the end which often matter. Our form will drop and that's when the lack of a proper striker will hurt us, unless Sturridge rediscovers his scoring touch. As you say, the defence is quite rightly a bigger area of concern, but the other end isn't without its doubts either.

It's like a sensible older person has distilled 10 of my sweary, ranting posts into 5 sentences.

You should be my Editor.

 

[Woland]

Our very own Donald Trump.

 

[manwithnoname]

Our very own Donald Trump.

Yes, that's right. Just wait 'til that mong Oliver Twist sees this! He'll be all over you like a Mexican and a wall.

 

[Woland]

You're so right. We won't believe how right you are.